trollson

@peino Impressive analysis. I don't PK in EL, it really doesn't interest me, pretty much for the reasons you describe. Done plenty of fighting in other games (and RL reenactment & martial arts), but now I need a reason, a casus belli, to spark and interest in a game. Some wider ingame consequences of the outcome, and a better combat system. At the gates of death? Its a shame that when you attack someone, they have to stand still until you walk over to them. It's an artifact of the game engine that you can't run away, or be chased, cornered, out maneuvered. The disengagement ring answers part of this, but is itself another artifact. The "beam in" point for map entrances could hop around within an area larger than visual range. When a character steps through, if no one else has stepped through in the last (say) 5 seconds the focus point is randomly changed. Prevents ambushes on the PK side, keeps parties together, while limiting pinning the focus by hopping too and fro. Where is the movement during combat? Participants stand toe-to-toe and slug it out. Not very entertaining to watch. Unless you are pinned in a shield wall, a sword fight (etc) moves around quite a bit, as the participants dodge, advance, retreat. This is where terrain plays a part, as it limits movement and thus options. Add movement/steps in response to successful dodge, attack (push-retreat), or disengagement attempts ('home' key). Penalise a character who cannot make the move due to terrain or other obsticles. Movement in combat is responsive, not directed, so in long fights characters should spread out. Consequences in the aftermath? Consider guilds fighting in a PK map as trying to take control of the terratory. EL has limited world-state to play with. But if PK points earned/lost per guild was recorded per map, then this total could be used to affect NPC interactions with that guild and their allies. Effectively, your guild gains power in the area, and the NPCs respond to that. Treat the scores for guildless as either a separate guild, or a non-owning party. If the guild scores are (vaguely) published, then it gives reason to attack people of specific guilds in a map. A form of casus belli?

Again, this is how you make a living. Supply and demand in a free market will constrain the effect:There must be enough demand for the product amongst the characters. If production is too high prices drop until the circuit becomes unprofitable. The should be no problem with this so long as trade is with player characters, who are a finite market. The economy stumbles when there is unlimited supply and demand through NPCs. On the original topic: You could contrive an approach where a "stack" was the item, with the count as number of charges. This would require different transfer rules though -- stacks could not be split or merged by normal methods, and only one stack-item allowed in an inventory, storage, or bag.

Nothing wrong with selling your product to make money, thats pretty much the basis of any economy. There is only a problem is if this creates new money; so don't have any NPCs buy the product (or only at a low rate -- the 1:10 ratio). So much emphasis on levelling and training... ...when can we start playing the game?

For easy implement charged items should be stackable and one item have one sell in it.This is a common stumbling point for this type of suggestion. EL's design requires that a slot can only contain identical, interchangeable items: A wand with 20 charges is different from one with 19 charges, and so uses a separate slot, regardless of whether the wand is stackable.

Poison: I wouldn't worry about it. "Natural" healing, even amplified by bandages, comes per minute. I think that poison damage occurs more rapidly? (Not sure, I avoid being poisoned). It might be interesting to have different sets of "health" points for different forms of damage -- physical wounds and inner constitution. That said, being poisoned should be a detectable character state, so it could disable or modify the effects of bandages when in effect.

Throw this in to the mix: Have one bandage type per body location (head, arms/hands, torso, legs, feet). Bandages are then worn as clothes/equipment. Wearning bandages increases healing by some formula. Unequipping bandages destroys them (or turns them into generic dirty rags). So... Players have to choose between bandages and other equipment. Bandages are clothing items, which are visiable ingame -- and you can dress as Mummies on halloween. Footnote: It is odd that in many RPGs, its easier to heal yourself than others -- in RL its the other way around, which in an RPG would encourage teamwork.

AFAIK EL doesn't use hit locations, so equipped items add to overall values. So the armour value for a helmet is the product of how much protection it offers the location and the chance of that location being hit by a blow. It is reasonable that a helmet offers greater "critical protection"; as a "critical hit" is more likely to have struck the head than other parts. The biggest problem with wearing a medieval helmet is the restricted vision. So an enclosing helmet should give a perception penalty, which may be worth considering now that perception plays a part in the game. Attribute modifiers are interesting now there are attribute caps (though I dislike hard-limits in what should be open ended games), but it is preferable (IMHO) to use them to represent "real" cause and effect before resorting to "magical" properties.

There is no reason why difficult (high skill level) should imply expensive. To make this association between your parameters is very limiting -- tasks cluster along a diagonal of a notional difficulty-cost scatter plot, rather than making full use of the range of possibilities. Similarly, difficulty and required nexus should not be coupled -- you can have simple tasks that require a high nexus (for "savants"), and complex tasks which do not require any. Nor should a skill be associated with a particular nexus. It all just cuts down on possibilities and diversity. To summerise: If a task is parameterised by difficulty, nexus, and cost, these should be independant parameters. I have no opinion on the OP, just the design restrictions being implied

Obstacles could be represented by using special "creatures" (ie, immobile actors), such as a pile of rubble. Normal attacks do nothing, but take an appropriate tool and skill, and "use with", to "repair" (damage the "creature"). Suggested something in this vein long ago though...

Or have enriched potions?

It doesn't break the laws of physics for mercury to have a higher EMU than its ingredients, since EMU may represent more than just mass. RPG systems often use terms like 'EMU' rather weight or mass for objects; this allows other factors to be considered in assigning their encumbrance. Encumbrance can include awkward shape, fragility, etc. So an egg and a pebble may have the same mass, but the egg has a higher encumbrance because it requires more careful handling. So two lumps of cinnabar ore and an energy essence are easier to carry than a pool of liquid metal.

The Doubloon was a real coin in circulation during the "high age" of the pirate, so the crap RPG is being factual. It was a Spanish coin minted C16 through C19.

EdwardElric : "I truely think that anyone can get pk points for killing players. Why do only the high levels get em?" Learner : "Only high levels to prevent someone from making alt(s) just to kill them off so the main earns PK points." EdwardElric : "I thought it was kinda ilegal to pvp on same ip" Creating alts as cannon fodder helps the high level characters earn PvP points, not the low level ones (which is how I interpret EdwardElric's question). Alts don't have to be on the same IP. Two or more players could cooperate in this respect - each making cannon fodder for the other. PvP points to be open to all levels would have to either be segregated by levels (as attempted in the arenas), or actually give a penalty for smegging somebody significantly lower level (ie, you are seen as a bully, not a hero). See also my suggestion about "Law Levels" in the "A Suggestion about PKing" thread, for a "smooth" separation of levels. Earning negative PK points was rejected by Entropy in the original discussion of the system, but I still think that its the cleanest solution for the least effort.

So why isn't the list be cached by the client, and refreshed interaction with a storage point/NPC? There could be situations where a character's storage content changes in their absence, but then its also valid to say that they'd only find out the next time they go and actually look.

(Late reply...) Briefly: Do away with the money-changers completely; no NPCs will exchange one type of coin for another. Each item type is bought and sold by NPCs in a specific coin type. Ideally, each NPC would only trade in one coin type. Thats right -- I'm recommending that there should be no exchange rate between the coins provided by the game/NPCs; its left upto the players to decide relative worths. So a platinum coin is just another commodity in the gold coin economy, and visa versa. Far more interesting... Elaborating & Consequences: The economy is split into multiple tiers, one for each type of coin. This can be thought of as separate peasant, merchant, and noble economies. The more tiers, the better (add silver below gold, possibly coppers below that). Leaves it up to the player driven economy to establish exchange rates between different coins. Harvestables should trades in the lowest valued coinage. A character can never buy platinum-economy uber armour with the silver-economy wages of a lupine-picker. Climbing up through the economic tiers is another aspect of character development. It is possible for a noble to have no copper bits with which to buy a pint in the tavern; but he should have people to do that for him... Don't be tempted to weaken or break (1).

Following on from thoughts on the manufacturing thread, and a lunchtime discussion, and elsewhere... Virtual Items Abstract This suggestion is most relevant to developing advanced magic without requireing Conan-physique Mages to carry around all the essences. It introduces a new class of object, 'virtual items', which are typically non-physical, but nevertheless occupy inventory space. It also attempts to extend their use to artisans. Narrative Example Perhaps a quick scenario to demonstrate what I am thinking of, before we get into the details and mechanics: The ArchMage sits in his tower, a thin and puny figure of dangeous intellect. His minions bring him essences and other ingredients. Surrounded by the smoke of incense he meditates over his books and recites an incantation; three score essences evaporate, surrounding him in a shimmering cloud; he breaths deeply. A dozen times he performs the ritual, and a dozen times another, before rising, taking up his staff and robe, and setting off to the Dragons lair... Here is an example of a character dedicated to the ways of magic; the ArchMage has ignored his physique, instead developing exceptional mental powers. He has prepared 24 high level spells to use in facing the Dragon; which have used some 1440 emu of essences. Rather than taking a pack-team, he has his magic prepared and readied in the form of 'virtual items'; they will still cost him the mana when he faces the beast, but he has lots of mana. General Properties Virtual items are a new class of object, which can only exist in a character's inventory. They cannot be placed in storage or traded, and are destroyed if dropped (including into death bags). So they must be created and used by the same character. They typically represent things which are non-physical (eg., a preparation for a spell), but may also represent volitile or fragile objects (eg., a volitile reagent for a potion), or be of some other nature as yet unknown. They occupy inventory slots as any other item. Whether they are stackable or have any weight would depend on their specific nature and use. Why are they needed? As recipes and spells become more advanced, the quantity and therefore weight of ingredients increases. Since ingredients for a spell or item must be in the inventory, this forces characters to increase their carrying capacity, to "beef up", even though this may be against their nature. Why should a mage have to develop a physique to cast spells? Why should the artisan have to carry all the ingredients for an item, when in practice they would be working at a workbench? Any recipe should be available to a character with the minimum carrying capacity. One solution is to have more intermediate ingredients in a recipe. This has the additional effect of allowing production to be spread between more characters -- as now the apprentices make the basic rings and the polished gems, and the master craftsman combines them. This works for producing items; but what of high level spells? There has been discussion of producing magic scrolls to capture a spell; but these can then be traded, and so the magic can be passed around. Even if the scrolls still require a high magic skill to read, there this still devalues the archean art. Scrolls have their place, and I do not discount them as an item type. Virtual items therefore occupy the position of intermediate ingredients where it is desirable to restrict multi-stage production of an item or spell to a single character. As such they represent the results of elaborate and careful preparation, which may be a combination of mental and material Application to Magic The application to advanced magic is where this type of item is most relevant. An advanced spell could use virtual items instead of normal essences. A mage prepares in advance to cast a spell, locked away in their tower, memorising the incantations and absorbing the power. Such preparation cannot be traded or done on the behalf of another character. Since virtual items take inventory slots, and a token weight (if stackable), the mage is limited to how many they can prepare in advance; but they are not required to carry huge weights of essences for advanced spells, which does not fit with their nature. Consider these preparations as 'virtual essences'. The same virtual essence may be used in any number of advanced spells; so this preparation need not overly limit the options available to the mage in the heat of a crisis. The mana for any spell is consumed when it is cast, as normal. Application to Artisans It is more tricky to apply virtual items to artisans; if the virtual item is to be used as an ingredient, isn't is physical; in which case we need a strong reason why it cannot be traded. Virtual items could also represent blessings, which are consumed when an item is made. They could also represent meditation required before attempting a particulary tricky artifact (literally a "piece of mind"?). They could also represent volitile potions or agents which can be used as a weapon, or to some other effect, but are too unstable to pass around (even to collegues of greater skill). This brings artisans into the frontline. Some artifacts may require ingredients prepared fresh, or produced at specific locations and then kept pure. Passing these around would expose and ruin them. Other Applications Blessings and other delayed buffs -- Not all virtual objects need to be created by the carrier; imagine if a priest blessing appeared as a virtual object in your inventory. Instead of having to haul ingredients to the temple, you could respect the sanctity of the location, gather your blessing, and save it for later use in a more approprate location and time. This may be more relevant when and if it becomes necessary to use static map objects to exercise a skill (manufacturing at a forge for instance). This application could allow a new set of high level spells may be defined with delayed effects, for example; Heal, Remote Heal, Delayed Heal.

See Also: "The Tavern Channel" for discussion on using bots to run games, implemented by subverting local chat messages. Would benefit from bot extensions to the protocol as described. "Public Library" for a case for additional bot blessings (no protocol extension).

Today is "talk like a pirate" day.

Ditto. One interpretation of the virtual items concept is that it represents "memorised spells" ala D&D; while trying to fit into EL's model and implementation. What I have looked for is magic users to work as dangerous characters in their own right, when played intelligently. See this anecdote on a medium powered mage devastating an "uber" party from t'ol'days.

See Also: "Virtual Items".

It would be useful if there where more "blessings" that you could get for a 'bot, to allow them to server more as extensions to the game than at present. Currently the only blessing is an attribute boost. Two possible blessing which should be relatively easy to implement (server side): Stackable blessing -- everything is stackable in the 'bots inventory. This could be done safely server-side, by a flag against the character. Existing 'bots should work okay, if they don't try to be too clever. This should be a trivial change server-side? Storage access blessing -- the bot can access its own storage wherever it is. The 'bot receives a storage list on log-in, and the server doesn't vet storage use by location (or it vets by the 'bots "home" location). The 'bots would have to be recoded to use storage in this way.

Shouldn't he be in a Library rather than standing in the street? Portland Library for instance?

I very much doubt whether this would be acceptable: Big PK'er sees little dude in the distance, targets them, and goes for a cuppa, to come back to find a deathbag at his feet... I would suggest that if you click-to-attack an entity out of range, then it could be re-interpreted as a move-to that location; not move-to entity (ie follow), and definitely *no* auto-attack when in range; you have to attack again when closer, but at least you are moving in the right direction.

The idea of an EL archipelago could be great fun for exploration and high-seas shenanigans. It has come up before. I'm pretty sure that the auto-harvest NPC will never happen though. Developing an island would be related to the "city building" topic, so its a possibility. Tying islands to guilds is problematic; number of islands vs number of guilds. Instance maps would come in useful here, but these are not available. Capturing islands off other guilds would mean that its just a PK extension, and there needs to be scope for non-PK guilds. I guess there would have to be a mix of "claimable" islands types: PK claimed and held by force. Non-PK by bribing the natives (cf. Merchant NPC rent, except with bribes). Travel by ship: Use a "mass teleport" (everyone on the ship) to an identical ship on another map (or map area). Then control who can initiate the event ("setting sail"). Possible maps: Ship at sea (mid-voyage, possibly with sea monsters). Becalmed in the sargasso sea. Two ships meeting at sea (is the other ship flying the pirate flag?). Each ship is only accessible when someone is on it. Two ships meet again, except the other is filled with monsters (ship of undead, orc ship, etc). Ship wrecked/run aground on an island. Landed at an island. Back to the main land. A locking mechanism is needed to prevent multiple parties arriving at the same ship. Options: Destination ship is "locked" if it is occupied. Arriving at a ship "locks" it, departing from a ship "unlocks" it (with timeout on locks). There could also be pre-requisits for setting sail ("use X with wheel", where X is used up if you reach the intended destination), which could get interesting: Without guidance, you sail to a random destination (even with guidance there is a chance of this). "Treasure Maps" allow sailing to their destination (and are used up in the process). They are only obtainable from the islands they lead to. Not all islands provide maps. Sail under a "Pirate Flag" to aim for PK 'two ships at sea' maps. Ship wrecked maps require collecting some "stuff" from the island to repair the ship before you can leave. Other "flags" would make a good metaphores for travel, particularly back to major mainland ports. Piracy only works if there are treasure ships out there. So we need people to have to ship their isle-gotten gains back to the mainland. So, no storage access on the islands, and no beaming, teleport rings, portal rooms, etc. A PK two-ships map should offer a safe zone (non-PK) on each ship; but it is not possible to "set sail" from that location. A "cooldown" is needed on "setting sail" to prevent quick sailing away. As a 'continent', the archipelago would have its own underworld. This could be on a larger "free" island. Getting from here back to the mainland should be as dangerous/risky as from any other island, to avoid short-cut-by-suicide. There is also an issue with logging out mid-journey, and logging back in to find yourself on either an empty ship (possibly locking the ship), possibly stranded there if you lack the means to set sail yourself. If you log in, and the ship has been used (arrived at, or departed from) since you logged out, then it isn't your ship anymore. You must have fallen overboard, and so are washed ashore on a random deserted island (non-PK of course). Leading to... So far it would be possible to leave people stranded on an island; if they are not on the ship when it leaves, and are not able to "set sail" themselves (by whatever measure is needed to allow this). Is this desirable or undesirable? Do we need a "way off" each island for ol'Ben Gunn? Rafts without navigation (sailing just requiring some "stuff" from the island?). ...and so on...

Items such as the healer medallion... Equipped items, with limited slots, are there so that players have to make choices as to what item(s) they what to be using. What lets this down is unrestricted equipment swapping. For example: A medallion of healing is only needed when you are about to heal; and it is (currently) easy to swap medallions to fit your next action. This bypasses the need to make smart choices ahead of time. For this and other reasons (from other suggestions), I am beginning to be of the opinion that we need a equip/unequip cooldown timer.