IngalfTass
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Posts posted by IngalfTass
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nice idea but it might be rejected because it would give you a big advantage in fights, you could battle to the death then suddenly come back fully restored and carry on fighting the same opponent.
That is the point of it, really. The negative is that with the cost of rostos it would burn over 100kgc if stones are bought in-game...add in ELE and EDE, and it would be a pretty expensive one time use item. The upside would be more rostogols sold from the shop, and it would increase interest in TD map. You could wear top gear and only risk 100kgc or so... it might give higher level fighters pause before attacking someone a little lower than them, as they would have to beat them twice without resupplying.
I think it could potentially add an interesting twist to the game, but as I said, it would be an expensive one.
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Just a thought...
would anyone be interested in a mixable item that uses a roso + other ings (ELE and EDE maybe), that creates a "resurrection" effect, so when the user dies, they regenerate where they died, with full health and mana? You would still drop a rosto, so essentially you lose 2 rostos, but you do not go the underworld.
It would be expensive, but I could see it being useful in some situations, and it would create a new mixable item for high-level mixers.
Also thinking that it would work in Taraji Desert.
Call it "Stone of Resurrection" or somesuch.
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Hole in the ground glitch NK 36,152
Apologies if not the right place for this.
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How can you possibly know if it will make the game play worse if it is not yet known how this feature would be implemented !?Implementation is irrelevant.
It will reduce available resources. That will make gameplay worse in and of itself.
Less of something might be good...less athletes foot would be good. Less swine flu works for me. Less resources? I don't care how you implement it, you are making water in my cornflakes.
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I just cannot understand how anyone could vote yes on something to make the gameplay worse. That makes no sense.
Probably the sort who would like to have someone make water in their cornflakes.
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I think we've gotten off-topic.I'm not sure I understand what problem you are trying to fix. Is it really so bad that multiplay is not allowed? It seems that allowing multiplay was at least the spark of what has you thinking about depletable resources.
I think EL was an awful lot of fun just 2 months ago. It doesn't seem as much fun anymore. I'm not ready to leave yet, I hope you find a way to make it fun.
Maybe if you explain what you're after?
Bingo my friend.
I have only been playing a few months, and the game is less fun now than it was.
You don't fix a leaky faucet by turning the water on. It isn't leaking anymore - but it is not fixed.
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Obviously you don't know what Keynesian economics is.For the uninitiated, it is a moderate macroeconomic theory that favors neither supply side or consumer side economic and fiscal policy. It is balanced and favors equilibrium, as opposed to creating either traditional capitalist or marxist imbalances. It is ideal for an economy like EL.
No, it is an economic system where the state interferes with the economy by changing interest rates, having stimulus bullshit and so on. The Obama-Paulson-Bernanke crap that led us to where we are now.
Obama favors a socialist consumer side policy. Not Keynesian. Keynesian is a balanced position between supply side (trickle down) and consumer side economic policy.
Congrats on reading the first section of Wikipedia on Keynesian economics that deals with economic downturns. I edited part of it in the original publication. Now read the rest of the article.
Obviously you don't know what Keynesian economics is.For the uninitiated, it is a moderate macroeconomic theory that favors neither supply side or consumer side economic and fiscal policy. It is balanced and favors equilibrium, as opposed to creating either traditional capitalist or marxist imbalances. It is ideal for an economy like EL.
No, it is an economic system where the state interferes with the economy by changing interest rates, having stimulus bullshit and so on. The Obama-Paulson-Bernanke crap that led us to where we are now.
Obama favors a socialist consumer side policy. Not Keynesian. Keynesian is a balanced position between supply side (trickle down) and consumer side economic policy.
Congrats on reading the first section of Wikipedia on Keynesian economics that deals with economic downturns. I edited part of it in the original publication. Now read the rest of the article.
One more thing...what led us to where we are now is 8 years of Bush - not 3 months of Obama. I am a republican, but I admit Bush will go down as one of the worst presidents in history. He was a disaster on every front.
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Well, I am working on my 4th degree right now...but you have made it apparent that my input is not wanted. Managing multi-billion dollar corporations and doing advanced research in Keynesian Economics, would in no way give me the qualifications needed for input on how design a micro socio-economic paradigm for an encapsulated macroeconomy on the scale that exists in EL.Keynesian Economics???? ROFLMAO.
That's the funniest thing I ever heard recently. No, I would NEVER, EVER take advice from someone who believes in that crap. I'd rather go the South Park way and divinate using animals that to follow that pseudo economic crap.
Obviously you don't know what Keynesian economics is.
For the uninitiated, it is a moderate macroeconomic theory that favors neither supply side or consumer side economic and fiscal policy. It is balanced and favors equilibrium, as opposed to creating either traditional capitalist or marxist imbalances. It is ideal for an economy like EL.
It is not something to ROFLMAO about. That kind of reply is like saying "i686 code????? ROFLMAO."
Maybe the animals at ip...nevermind.
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Aislinn's post really blows away all these supposed horrific, game ruining downfalls to multiplay...Although i'm a general supporter of getting multiplay made legal, i've had some concern related to an increased ability to buy pickpoints... but as Aislinn perfectly put; really, i'm much more comfortable with people who actually did work in EL buying pickpoints at a fast rate than i am with people who just throw around $$.
Still a concern remains that allowing multiplay would result in more nexus removal stones entering the game... perhaps their find rate could be dropped a bit? (waits for harvester types to chime in with the 'omfg i get punished w/ reduced stone rate cause of ppls alts'... the fact is, harvesting yields big resources/profit at a tiny cost, so ya.)
I am knocking on harv level 60.
To date I have found 1 nexus removal stone, 1 Rosto, and 1 Enrichment stone.
I don't know that turning the rate down is needed.
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The amount of resources required to produce finished goods mandates a ridiculous amount of wasted time harvesting. To dictate that all a person can do while they harvest the materials needed to make seridium bars (or anything for that matter) is sit and stare at the screen with swirly dots for entertainment is absurd. We are supposed to anxiously await the next exciting "you hurt yourself and lost 1hp" event!!! YAY! Harvesting is almost as entertaining as watching a chia-pet grow.All I can say about this is: LOL
Just because it is funny, doesn't make it any less true. I detailed the process for one seridium bar to a WoW friend of mine - she was left stunned by the amount of work and raw materials. Harvesting is boring. You are legislating boredom - not a good thing for a "game."
You are being incredibly short sighted to say "those that left were harvesting alts and afk harvesters" and that you are going to focus on those who stayed. I know for a fact that some who left were good players. I have been one who has worked to get new players, but now you are TRYING to run me off.Well, I am so glad someone who has more data about the players is contradicting me. Left in my own short sighted ignorance, I would have thought that most of the people playing the game didn't leave, but now I see that I was wrong.
Your mind appears to be already made up, as indicated by the way you worded "no" in the poll. Rather than addressing the problem and accepting advice from people who might - just might, know more about business and human psychology than you, you turn sarcastic. I may not have more data, but I had friends who left. It happened.
I appreciate the game. I do. I buy from the shop because of that...and you know more about programming than I ever will...but man, when you have people with graduate degrees in economics and business and philosophy giving advice in those arena's - use it, or at least listen and consider.People such as?
Well, I am working on my 4th degree right now...but you have made it apparent that my input is not wanted. Managing multi-billion dollar corporations and doing advanced research in Keynesian Economics, would in no way give me the qualifications needed for input on how design a micro socio-economic paradigm for an encapsulated macroeconomy on the scale that exists in EL.
I am just trying to help. For the average user who doesn't read the forums or care about this drama, the game was better two months ago. People want to log-in and have fun - forgetting about day to day problems and issues. What is happening is that whole new issues are being created - issues that will not only keep EL from growing - it will cause contraction. You might as well institute required tax returns in the game, complete with 1040's and tax audits - these changes are on par.
Do what you want and I won't say another word - I have said all I have to say.
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I was hesitant to bring that up...before harvest events there were rarely less than 500 people logged in. Now there are rarely over 400. 344 right now and its almost noon eastern. People HATE the harvest events and will hate limited resources more. It is killing the game. More than one person has done #kill_me yes because of this mess, and the forum posters represent a very, very small percentage of actual players. Entropy you have to realize the majority of players want to log on and play and have fun - you are making changes that are hurting people's ability to do that. How in the name of all that is good and Holy can making things worse have a good outcome? Answer: IT CAN'T.Those that left were mainly alts and people ahrvestign AFK from work and shit like that. This is not a game for AFKers. Those who left, good riddance. I am, obviously, going to focus on those who stayed, not on those who left.
The amount of resources required to produce finished goods mandates a ridiculous amount of wasted time harvesting. To dictate that all a person can do while they harvest the materials needed to make seridium bars (or anything for that matter) is sit and stare at the screen with swirly dots for entertainment is absurd. We are supposed to anxiously await the next exciting "you hurt yourself and lost 1hp" event!!! YAY! Harvesting is almost as entertaining as watching a chia-pet grow.
\o/
If you plan on going through with limited resources, you need to cut the required ingredients down by a factor of 10...and remove the crappy mini-events.
You are being incredibly short sighted to say "those that leve were harvesting alts and afk harvesters" and that you are going to focus on those who stayed. I know for a fact that some who left were good players. I have been one who has worked to get new players, but now you are TRYING to run me off. YES I read while I harvest...now I cant do that so I started doing A/D instead, and only mixing HE's. Now you want to make it where there is a good chance that I won't be able to find silver ore when I need it. What is left for joe player like me? NOTHING.
I appreciate the game. I do. I buy from the shop because of that...and you know more about programming than I ever will...but man, when you have people with graduate degrees in economics and business and philosophy giving advice in those arena's - use it, or at least listen and consider. Any time I have been successfuly, it has been because I was willing to listen to those who knew more than I did. Negativity never translates to positive results in a social context. You are imposing negatives and wanting positives, and it will not happen. You are making the game worse - no ifs or buts.
I will make a prediction - if you do this, you will be stunned by the number of people who leave...and these won't be harvesting alts and "afk harvesters."
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These mini events have been in game now for a couple of weeks (iirc) and I'm curious to know if Ent has seen the impact of these in his statistics.The impact is quite visible I think - as of today at 9 am when I've logged in -> less players than bots online.
On topic : After thinking it over thoroughly I have voted NO to the proposal at its current form.
I would like and support this idea if it was accompanied with some benefits. I believe making resources depletable should be combined not only with removing mini events but also with increase of harvesting speed.
An active (and non-afk) player who knows harvestable deposits on various maps should be able to move from depleted tile to another one and harvest same amount per hour as it was before mini events introduction.
In my opinion harvesting has currently reached a stage where making it even more time consuming would not be acceptable to me. With virtually millions of harvestables on my counters I can safely say it is not about my lack of EL work ethics lol, but rather about understanding individual's boundaries where playing and fun ends and grinding and frustration starts. I understand this is very individual thing and I speak only for myself, I'm sure some others will just sigh and adjust.
I was hesitant to bring that up...before harvest events there were rarely less than 500 people logged in. Now there are rarely over 400. 344 right now and its almost noon eastern. People HATE the harvest events and will hate limited resources more. It is killing the game. More than one person has done #kill_me yes because of this mess, and the forum posters represent a very, very small percentage of actual players. Entropy you have to realize the majority of players want to log on and play and have fun - you are making changes that are hurting people's ability to do that. How in the name of all that is good and Holy can making things worse have a good outcome? Answer: IT CAN'T.
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DO NOT POST BEFORE READING AND ALLOWING HALF AN HOUR TO DIGEST WHAT YOU READ HERE!We were thinking, again, to allow multiplaying. Yes, we had votes about it before, on how it will ruin the game and blah blah.
Some of the concerns were valid, some were not.
The main problem is with harvesting. You can still do it more or less afk, and if you have two computers it is relatively easy to run a main and ~2 alts that only harvest. This is also the problem that affects other things, such as gold farming and over abundance of items.
So, in order to allow multiplaying, there must be a solution to the problem of everyone having 3-4 alts only harvesting for the main.
The solution is simple and elegant: Depletable resources.
How would it work:
1. There is a finite number of each harvestible resource in the game. By resource I mean the map object you click on to harvest.
2. The server can determine the total number of resources placed in places where you can harvest them.
3. The server will try to guestimate how much of each resource is needed. This will be a little tricky to implement, and would probably require a few days of self adjustments to get it right. It could also be based on the amount of people online.
4. The server will then divide the total quantity that is 'needed'*2 to the number of harvestible resources of that type. Some of the resources (map objects) that are not very used, such as those further from storages, will have a higher quntity.
5. Each hour or perhaps every few hours, some (randomly) of the resources will be replenished.
6. Optionally, the resources that are harvested the most will be replenished slower.
7. Characters who just logged in the game can't harvest for a minute or two, to prevent people from logging out their alts at the resources and logging them every hour or so to check.
8. With this system, the mini events can be removed, and the harv limit increased from 120 an hour to 200 an hour or so.
9. Some maps will have harvesting restrictions, for example, IP would allow harvesting only up to level 15 harvesting, and would not be depleatable.
IMO, this would make the game much more interesting, would encourage exploration and better competition, and would reduce the moderators time, as well as making it easier for families to play.
Think about it, and post in 30 minutes or more.
Ok. I have given it the requisite time for thought, and have some thoughts on the issue.
Let me start by saying that I do not like the mini-events, and think this idea is worse than the mini-events. I feel that in the long and short run, it hurts the majority of players - and players are what the game is about. As far as the decision to implement this goes, I feel that it depends on what problem you are addressing, and what you hope to accomplish.
My son and I started playing this game in January, and so far I have not seen what I consider to be a positive way of addressing a negative issue. In order to try and sort out my ideas, I want to present what I perceive the problems to be - and offer what I feel to be a valid option to handle them in a positive, proactive manner - as opposed to a negative, reactive manner. I have a background in areas of economics, philosophy, and many years of retail executive level experience, and I ask that you at least consider what I have to say.
Gold harvesting
My understanding is that there have been problems with people having alts for the purpose of harvesting and selling to NPC's with bottomless pockets, then taking the GC and selling it for real greenbacks. The same has been done with manufactured items as well. Supposedly this has brought on inflation, as well as an increase on harvesting alts.
Possible solutions: excess GC in the game does not necessarily lead to inflation - at least not in short term. Since consumables became scarcer due to harvest events, there has been a shorter-term problem with inflation due to lack of consumables, and difficulty obtaining them. I have gotten away from harvesting silver to make HE's with, and started buying it from trade bots. Prices will go up more from that.
Solution 1.
Do unto others. Currently Rosto stones sell for $5 US. They sell in-game for ~ $20kgc. Eliminate the middle man and sell GC for $5 per 20k. Harvesting enough resources to make 20k is not worth $5 in terms of time. For someone to do what is needed to make that business profitable, they would have no life and 20 alts.
Solution 2
As I have suggested before, another option would be - instead of limiting the amount of harvesting resources, limit the amount that NPC's will buy - on a per character basis. Sure, it might be possible to recruit someone to sell your stuff, but if the limit on flowers is 1k per day per person, why bother?
Inflation
Solution 1
Lower the prices of finished goods from NPC's, and make all items more easily purchased. Lower armor prices at NPC's. Unilaterally lower resource prices from NPC's to levels that make it worth considering - say 10% higher than what fair market price from players should be.
Solution 1a.
Make most ingredients available for purchase at 90% cost of end product. Ing's for CoL = CoL price - 10%
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Part of the problem with inflation is not excess GC ingame, it is a lack of finished product. Not enough players are playing who are capable of crafting Crowns of Life - an item in demand. When I bought mine, I had to search and search to find a trade bot who had one. I bought a CoL a couple of months ago for 64k. I priced them a few weeks aerlier at 58k. Now they are 67k - if you can find them. I bought my Great Sword for 23k in February. Now they are 28k. There is not enough GC coming into the game that I can see to account for that kind of increase.
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Other possible options
Add weight to GC and limit the amount that can be stored. Make 400k the limit in storage and give GC a weight of 1/8 emu or some such.
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Problem: Multiplay
In my honest opinion, too much is made of this. Harvesting alts are easy to track down. Character trading is not that big of a deal. My son and I share the same IP, but we play fairly, and we are definitely 2 people. It is easy to verify if you need to.
Solution: Email and phone contacts
require email at registration and if multiplay in an illegal manner is suggested, send a form email. If it continues, Zap them. If Zippy and Zappy share the same IP and all Zappy does is harvest ing's for Zippy to make FE, its pretty obvious what is going on. 2 characters on at the same time - one fighting ogre in Melinis, the other making potions in Desert Pines, it is pretty obvious that 2 people are playing. We would be glad to call anyone in the USA to talk to them and verify our identities. There are enough mods globally I should think that most countries where there are high concentrations of players would have a mod available to verify ID.
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Final thoughts...
Harvesting represents the single most tedious aspect of EL. The amount of consumables required to manufacture certain items is a bit extreme, and the mini-events make an already tedious process even more tedious. Add in a new factor of having to chase down resources, and it will become almost - if not totally - unbearable. I was working on alchemy when you instituted harvest events, and abandoned it for all purposes but health essence and energy essence. Now I train a/d. Consumables being limited means that my already strained time will be strained even further by having to chase down silver when I need health essence. I am sure others will be in the same situation.
There are guilds who are devoted to certain aspects of the game...So when I need iron ore for energy essences, what is the chance that VOTD will be already depleted when I get there? Probably pretty high...and as a full time grad student, I simply lack the time to run all over the maps looking for resources.
With all due respect, I feel that mini-events were a terrible thing, and this is much worse. My son and I are good players. We do not start problems or cause issues. I try to do my part. I may not spend a fortune, but I do buy items from the EL shop, and my son and I multiplay fairly. If this change is made, Adama90 and I will probably move on to something else. That is not any threat and please dont take it as such...it is just reality. There is not time in our lives to mess with these sort of issues. I don't have time to spend chasing resources.
Thanks for hearing me out.
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I used selling stuff to npcs as an example because it brings new gc into the game, while selling to players does not. Adding gc to the economy contributes to inflation. I don't like the mini events because it slows down both those who contribute to inflation and those who do not. I think a solution that only slowed down those who contribute to inflation would be better.Most of the farmers made money by selling to players, not to NPCs. However, this does cause inflation, because the players are making finished goods with those items and sell them to the NPC.
Sorry if this is a bit off-topic, not intending to hijack the thread: would an alternative to the mini harv events be to reduce the price NPCs pay for the finished goods in question? That way, there'd be less incentive to make those goods (i.e. accept less/no profit or spend time selling to players), so less incentive to buy from the farmers.
I agree that the mini harv events will increase the "cost" for farmers to harvest, but perhaps reducing their profit by putting downward pressure on their possible sale price would be a viable alternative?
I am sure someone has suggested this, but I am too lazy to read 17 pages of discussion.
I gather that farming large quantities and selling to NPC's is the problem....I cannot see selling to players who make finished goods being a problemb because it tends to be not cost effective to pay market prices for goods, and barter/selling is part of gameplay...I make matter conglomerates for gc, or make and sell steel bars. I have to if I am going to buy armor or CoL/MoL type items.
I think a simple solution would be to drop the price paid for harvestables at NPC proportionate to the harvesting level of the seller. Make it easy for a noobie to make money, but experienced players have no business harvesting and selling lilacs. I did it a lot until I got a clue...which was when I began to explore alchemy. If someone has 25 harvesting, NPC pays .01 gc. That would make it too much work for advanced players to bother with and people using alts would quickly advance to too high of level to be profitable. If you notice someone creating multiple alts from one IP in order to harvest, you slap them with illegal multiplay violation.
If that is done, it will encourage people to learn crafts, alchemy, etc...and the annoying events can be turned off. I harvested 1200 swamp candles and had 50 events...that is just annoying.
In my opinion this idea is no different than the tutorial healing until 17 a/d. I am no coder, but it does not sound like a difficult routine to code - check harvest level if >=25 pay .01gc for all harvestables. Noobies get GC and advanced players don't have to deal with the constant "you found 2 coins - You stopped harvesting."
Just my 2gc.
IngalfTass
Idea for new mixable that helps in fighting
in General Chat
Posted · Report reply
It would not be on an NPC.... strictly a mixable item for very high level mixers to gain xp.
The stone would only work if you have a rosto in inventory. If you have no rosto, it could either act as a rosto - or do nothing. The idea of resurrecting a few steps from your bag is intriguing, but really defeats the purpose, as you would not be engaged with your opponent. Your opponent would have your bag by then. Making it an auto-drop item would be an interesting twist... you die with one and no rosto, you drop it plus whatever you would anyway, so your opponent gets it.
You hit it on the head...The idea is that it works like day of the dead. When you resurrect, you have full stats. If you ran out of SR's or HE's, your own planning caused it, so when you resurrect, you would need to dis-tele. Yep... expensive and pointless. You should have dis-tele'd before dying. The idea of resurrection is to do what day of the dead does, and that would be extremely useful if you have plenty of pots and regents in your inventory. It requires strategy and doesn't automatically create an advantage.
As for the price of rostogols, I don't think it would create inflation. There wouldn't be as large of a run on them as to cause that, and the price is already approaching the point where they are out of reach. I won't buy them in-game anymore. If I need one, it is to the shop I go. When I started EL in 2009, they were 24k. I don't like spending 4 hours of farming to pay for a rosto.
I just thought it would make for an interesting twist. With the way the game has changed through ranging and engineering, it would help open up play a bit... though I admit that it is expensive.