korrode

Radu, it's sad a life is lost but I've just heard from another old EL friend that there's also a new life. Congrats you old schmuck.

Heard about this today from an old EL friend. Very sad. Learner was a good guy. RIP.

Well i figure i may as well post the combat related guides that are now just collecting dust in private sections of Warlords forums here, where they may be of some use to people ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Training attributes guide ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Note that this is a general guide, I don't claim it's completely perfect for everyone's situation or play style, but at the very least it can be used as a basis or to get a general idea. I'm not interested in debating the 'correctness' of this guide with anyone, if you think you know better, post your own guide. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- My recommendations are geared towards minimizing resources use in training. Using less HE and SR potions, breaking less armor... in the end it equates to more time on spawn. There are ways to make slightly more exp per hour than what will be yielded if you stick to this guide, but that exp often comes at too higher cost. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Firstly, take Reasoning 8 and Vitality 16. Do not take any Will (ever) or any Instinct (at this point). Get a Crown of Life and NMT perk or cape. (EDIT 2009-11-09: If you want a CoL-less guide, i suggest Masterpiter's.) (EDIT 2010-11-09: MP's guide is outdated (as is obvious by the TS pot references) and frankly, he used that system to level on the PK server where there's 100 a/d cap. It doesn't scale well past 100 a/d. Many of us know he never had 48/48 p/c on fluff on the main server, even when he trained CoL-less. ;p Simply I don't suggest CoL-less training, just get NMT and good toughness and you'll find that CoL to be quite durable) Take Aluwen (def) and Unolas (mag) as your gods. Polar Bears Recommended p/c: 20/28 Recommended def: 55 Minimum def: 50 Weapon: none EDIT 2011-06-14: It's been brought to my attention that the Polar Bear had a stats change and is now stronger. Until someone who understands combat well tests training it and lets me know the deal, it's stricken from the guide. Ogres Recommended p/c: 20/28 Recommended def: 60 Weapon: none Armed Female Orc Recommended p/c: 20/32 Recommended def: 70 Weapon: none Armed Male Orc Recommended p/c: 20/32 Recommended def: 75 Weapon: bone Train Armed Orcs until 85 defense. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- During your time training the above creatures, other than taking the recommended p/c, you need to save pickpoints, as when your time on Armed Male Orcs finishes (~80-85 def), you must have 20 pickpoints saved up to then move to Cyclops. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Leave Aluwen (def) and change to Mortos (att). Cyclops Recommended p/c: 28/44 Recommended def: 85 Minimum def: 80 Weapon: - bone @ <80 att - none @ >80 att Fluffy Recommended p/c: 28/44 Recommended def: 95 Minimum def: 90 Weapon: - bone @ <90 att - none @ >90 att Train Fluffy until 105 attack. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- During your time training Cyclops and Fluffy, take your Vitality to 20, then build your Instinct and Reasoning to 16. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Leave Mortos (att) and change to Aluwen (def). Feros Recommended p/c: 28/44 Recommended Inst: 16 Recommended def: 100 Minimum def: 95 Weapon: none Train Feros until 115 defense. (If PK's not important and you're not sick of looking at feros, staying on them to 120 def is a good idea... tbh staying on them till like 125 def is just fine.) (EDIT 2010-10-31: I reduced the recommended def and added a minimum def, because the old figure was ultra conservative. Note though, you shouldn't move off Fluff to Feros once you get to the recommended defense level unless you've already got your attack to 105 on Fluffy.) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- During your time training Feros, take your instinct to 20 and then save following pickpoints for p/c. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Leave Aluwen (def) and change to Mortos (att). Desert Chimeran Minimum p/c: 36/48 Recommened p/c 48/48 Recommended Reas: 16 Minimum Inst: 16 Recommended Inst: 20 Recommended def: 115 Weapon: 36/48 p/c = Stars medallion + bone 40/48 p/c = Stars medallion (no bone) 44/48 p/c = Bone (no stars med) Train Desert Chimerans until at least 115 attack. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- During your time training Desert Chimerans, take phys to 48 (if you haven't already) then take instinct to at least 28. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Leave Mortos (att) and change to Aluwen (def). 2011-02-04 EDIT: I will note that despite their higher attack, for overall exp there's like no difference between gods on FCW due to their crit-hit rate being higher than the likes of Feros so it gives you less opportunities to dodge. I still suggest Aluwen at this stage because pumping def now isn't a bad thing, you want it for Yeti/Trice, but it's optional. Find a good PvP training partner. 2011-01-31 EDIT: We've just had a few double FCW spawns added to the game. This is great news for people up to this stage of training. To maximise the exp on the double spawns you want to try and be as close to permanently in combat as you can be. You don't want to kill them so fast that after you kill one you still have time to wait for the other to respawn, but not so slow that it respawns while you're still fighting the first one and has a chance to wander off. For me using an Iron Broad sword and doing 1 flee achieves this (i'll note that I was doing too much damage for 2 full rounds of exp, but using a lower damage wep and getting 2 full rounds was taking too long and the other FCW would wander off). I expect that for people in 110's attack a Steel Long Sword will probably be best to achieve this, but perhaps a Titanium Short Sword will be needed. I'd appreciate if people could post feedback on this. Forest Chimeran Recommended p/c: 48/48 Recommended Reas: 20 Recommended Inst: 28 Recommended def: 120 Weapon (2011-01-31 EDIT: Preliminary recommendation): Steel Long Sword Train Forest Chimerans and your PvP partner until at least 130 defense. Train them for longer, see below edits for details. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- During your time training Forest Chimerans/PvP partner, max physique (if not already), then bring instinct to 28 (if not already), then reasoning to 28. (then if you're still not ready for MCW, take instinct to 32, then reasoning to 32.) 2011-01-31 EDIT: IMPORTANT: With the introduction of the double FCW spawns, the MCW has been rendered even more worthless to train than it already was. Until I can convince Radu to drop MCW respawn time to 25 or at least 30 sec I recommend staying on the FCW's until you're at least 125/133 a/d and then you could swap to Mortos (att god) and focus more on the double Yeti spawn and Cockatrices, that said, if you're not sick of looking at the FCW's by then I'd suggest staying on them with Aluwen (def god) and getting a few more levels, as the single Cockatrice spawns will never yield you as much exp and thus for truly effective use of attack god you'd only have the one double Yeti spawn until you can train LOrcs (well, and the one Trice+Fluff spawn, which is good for either god). Also keep in mind that once you go above FCW your chances of breaking armor will significantly increase, so that's another reason to hold off. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Leave Aluwen (def) and change to Mortos (att)... finally, this will be your last god change Mountain Chimeran Recommended p/c: 48/48 Minimum r/i: 28/28 Recommended r/i: 32/32 Minimum att: 120 Recommended def: 130 Weapon: Ti Long. (There are better possible weapon choices once you can hit them more easily) Train Mountain Chimerans until at least 125 attack. 2011-01-31 EDIT: Struck-out due to reasoning provided in above edit. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- During your time training Mountain Chimerans, bring Instinct to 36 if you haven't already, then place all following pickpoints on Reasoning. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yeti Recommended p/c: 48/48 Minimum r/i: 28/32 Minimum def: 133 Minimum att: 125 Weapon: Cutlass (There are better possible weapon choices once you can hit them more easily) Cockatrice Basically the same as Yeti except use a Jagged Saber, not a Cutlass. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CREDITS: Anima - Refinements to Cyclops recommendations. LadyAz - Testing on Armed Orcs LightLan - Refinements to DCW recommendations. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Understanding Criticals critical-to-hit and critical-to-damage ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Each combat round in EL is made up of 6 'rolls': 1. CombatantA rolls for hit Critical 2. CombatantA tries to hit 3. CombatantB tries to dodge Then, if CombatantA scored their hit: 4. CombatantA rolls for damage Critical 5. CombatantA deals damage 6. CombatantB absorbs damage This completes CombatantA's combat round, then it's CombatantB's turn. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Critical-to-Hit Whenever a combatant starts a combat round, before anything, their chance of critical-to-hit is calculated. In effect, a dice roll happens, and if you roll over a certain figure, your hit roll is 'critical'. When you roll a critical-to-hit, here's what happens: 1. CombatantA rolls for hit Critical (and succeeds) 2. CombatantA tries to hit 3. CombatantB tries to dodge (this doesn't happen, that is the effect of critical-to-hit) 4. CombatantA rolls for damage Critical 5. CombatantA deals damage 6. CombatantB absorbs damage So, when a player/creature does a critical-to-hit, they will hit their opponent, no matter what. A combatant with 30 attack will hit an opponent with 120 defense if they score a critical-to-hit. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Critical-to-Damage Before i start on this, you need to understand the Damage and Absorb rolls. Lets look at the Damage roll: 5. CombatantA deals damage What happens here is that the attacker's (CombatantA's) Might, Attack*0.2 and Equipment damage bonus are used in a calculation to determine how much damage will be inflicted upon the defender (CombatantB). Now the Absorb roll: 6. CombatantB absorbs damage What happens here is that the defender's (CombatantB's) Toughness, Defense*0.2 and Equipment armor bonus are used in a calculation to determine how much of the attacker's (CombatantA's) damage will be absorbed. Whenever a combatant succeeds with their hit roll, before they start their damage roll, their chance for critical-to-damage is calculated. In effect, a dice roll happens, and if you roll over a certain figure, your damage roll is 'critical'. When you roll a critical-to-damage, here's what happens: 1. CombatantA rolls for hit Critical 2. CombatantA tries to hit 3. CombatantB tries to dodge (and fails) 4. CombatantA rolls for damage Critical (and succeeds) 5. CombatantA deals damage 6. CombatantB absorbs damage (but ONLY their Toughness and Defense*0.2 is used in the calculation, NOT their Equipment armor bonus, that is the effect of critical-to-damage) So, when a player/creature rolls critical-to-damage, they will damage their opponent as though s/he was wearing no armor at all. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Selecting training armor ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- First, read the Criticals section to understand how the damage rolls and critical-to-damage works. If then you still don't quite understand the crits, that's ok, keep reading this and just follow the recommendations. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lets start with understanding the effects of equipment bonuses in relation to a/d training. If you type #arm in game the first 4 lines returned are your current Armor, Damage, Accuracy and Defense modifiers. Example: Armor reduces the amount of damage you take when an opponent hits you (with the exception of received critical-to-damage hits). It does not help you dodge hits, and thus will not increase your defense exp earning potential. Even if you absorb all the damage from a hit, you will not get def exp. Damage increases the amount of damage you will inflict on your opponent when you hit them. Remember, in EL doing more damage does not get you more attack exp. To maximize exp in training, you want to do enough damage so that you do take some health off your opponent, but as little as possible. Accuracy increases your ability to successfully hit opponents. It does not increase the damage you inflict on opponents. The outcomes of extensive testing strongly support that 1 accuracy provides the same increase in your ability to hit as 1 attack level does. Defense increases your ability to successfully dodge hits. It does not decrease received damage. The outcomes of extensive testing strongly support that 1 (equipment) defense provides the same increase in your ability to dodge as 1 (skill) defense level does. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- You will always take some damage in training, no matter what armor you wear, due to your opponent scoring critical-to-damage rolls. The only thing that reduces the damage of received critical-to-damage rolls is Toughness (and Defense level, but the impact is small). To use the least amount of resources (HE/SR) in training, it's best to absorb all the damage your opponent can possibly inflict on a normal damage roll. (2010-12-17 EDIT: With the new breaks system in place at the time of this edit, wearing enough armor so that all non-critical damage is absorbed is also pivotal in regards to reducing equipment breaks, the below recommended system of choosing training gear is more important and correct than ever.) The easiest way to determine this, is to go and fight your training creature (or player) naked (well, no armor or medallion that gives armor bonus, a CoL is fine) for at least 5 minutes, and keep track of how much damage you take when they hit you. Whatever the maximum damage you took from a single hit was, that's how much minimum armor bonus you want. Remember, you can check you current total minimum and maximum armor bonus with the #arm command, the first line of it's output is your armor bonus (Armor: min/max) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- An example: That said, there are other factors to consider when selecting armor; negatives and bonuses to accuracy and defense. The Ogre trainer in the above example should have used Augmented Leather Pants instead of Iron Cuisses, as Iron Cuisses have -1 to defense, where as Aug pants have +1 to defense, and his minimum armor bonus would have still been 14, enough to absorb all the damage an Ogre does to him on a normal hit. Here's a further example of selecting armor for it's accuracy or defense bonuses: A final note; always remember that you'll break less armor is you have higher defense. If you stick to the recommended defense levels for each creature in the Training attributes guide. you should break very little or no armor. EDIT (2009-11-08): The above sentence was quite old and the system had some changes since then... ensuring you dodge as well as possible will of course reduce breaks, and it still could be possible that yourDEF VS opponentATT could be getting used in equipment break chances, but one thing i can now tell you for sure: the more Toughness you have, the less armor/medallions you break. EDIT (2010-12-17): The breaks system has recently had changes (as stated in an edit earlier) but toughness is still very important to reducing armor breaks as it is how you can get yourself to a state where even on higher creatures you can absorb all non-critical damage. Dodging your opponent's hits well is of course still very important to reducing armor breaks. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Forever Warlord.

I don't "hate" you, you're just extremely arrogant and often incorrect with your assertions making your arrogance unjustified, which is very frustrating to deal with. Most people in EL who know you well feel the same way. I'll let the reasonable, objective people be the judge of that, which doesn't include you. No I don't. I never said anything of the sort. You put words in my mouth or twist my words. You do this often, to lots of people, generally when you're losing an argument and can't handle it. Again bullshit. Obviously if a problem is undiscovered even by you then how can you react? I've never said or expected such a thing. My argument in this thread has simply been that you have the ability to prevent anything from happening that you don't like. It's actually an argument that you use against people often, like if they complain about the BRoD or about being trade-scammed or something, you've previously argued that people have the tools to prevent those things from happening so they have no one to blame but themselves. Your double standards are ridiculous. You're not willing to have applied unto you what you'd have applied unto others. lol... who's trolling now, eh? I don't know why we're on this topic, but you're speaking without enough knowledge on the topic. I am against the proposal to force censorship of refused classification material upon all Australian adults. You need to understand what "Refused Classification" is in Australia. Refused Classification does not just = child porn (which is illegal). And I am strongly supportive of an easy-to-turn-on government funded opt-in filter so parents can have the censorship in place if they so choose. I even consider an opt-out solution acceptable, where it's on by default and the account holder can contact their ISP and turn it off if they want to. Once again you twist my words or put words in my mouth, trying to make me out to be saying something I'm completely not. You try to make out like i'm against protecting children, which is bullshit and i resent the insinuation. lol nihilism, more talking bullshit about me eh? I'm a strong supporter of the police force and harsh punishments for violent crimes. I just don't like censorship, privacy invasion and victimless acts (that don't lead to victimising down the road) being considered criminal. Anyway Radu, you won't have to ignore me. I've taken many breaks from EL over the years but certainly never claimed to have quit. Even at times when I really thought I wouldn't return I never officially quit and said goodbyes because so many people do that and then return later anyway... but shortly I'll post a goodbye thread, and leave both your forums and game for good (barring some unlikely circumstance, like you no longer being in charge of the project). It's both frustrating and saddening that I have to leave behind one of the very few 3D, open-source (client), native Linux MMORPG's in world. My love for both Linux and RPG's compels me to stay and keep hoping you'll come to your senses and the project will improve. I have freely given time to this project and I would and could have given more if you, the head of the project, just weren't such an arrogant prick. So in the footsteps of Linux nerds before me who've left due to you... Goodbye.

So we shouldn't bother having any laws that are fairly easy to not get caught breaking? Right. Sorry but, bkc completely invalidated the example you were trying to use as your argument. An MMORPG server is an extremely controlled environment (unlike RL), if you don't like something you really have no legitimate excuse for not preventing it from ever happening, other than laziness... and I don't mean that as an insult, personally I'm plenty lazy with many aspects of my life and feel no regret for it . If you'd prefer to just be annoyed with people doing stuff you don't like rather than modifying code or rules, it's your call, but serving up bullshit analogies won't do anything to reduce people's frustration with your decisions.

Did you enable non-free software sources first? Xorg doesn't come with proprietary drivers, only open source ones, which performance wise are generally inferior to their proprietary counterparts.

@Aisy - RE: Yeti ignore Yeah their ignore level should be raised. In addition to the obvious RP reasons, they're not good for multi training and there's not really anywhere to multi-train a bunch of them anyway. @SenZ - RE: TINF perk Ever a good question; why does a perk like TINF even exist in the first place - it's obviously way OP.

If it's a "tutorial" quest designed for new players, not some potioner specific quest from some other NPC (not the newbie Tutorial NPC), then is it not better to have quests that do not require people to spend pickpoints on nexuses (which begins setting the path of their char) when they're still at the introduction part of the game? Shouldn't such quests only show different parts of EL gameplay so people can decide what they like without having to start spending pp's down a particular path?

Well the spawns part is obvious, no? There's limited spawns, the more you occupy, the more percentage of available creatures you take up, the less there is for everyone else. So the more mobs you have on you, the more you impact everyone else's exp making ability. On a PK map ofc, no one should get long-term annoyed with you, if they don't like what you're doing they can attack you. As for Radu hating you, I have no idea why. Logic dictates that if Radu "hates" the way a player utilises part of the EL system, then he'd change the system so it can't be utilised that way. I'm eager to hear his response also.

What client runtime files need to/should be copied to EL data dir from the git clone? I assume the following directories?: actor_defs animations languages (why?) shaders (see 'EDIT2' for why stuff got striked through) EDIT: [korrode@legion el-ogl2]$ ./el_client terminate called after throwing an instance of 'eternal_lands::FileNotFoundException' what(): std::exception Aborted [korrode@legion el-ogl2]$ gdb el_client GNU gdb (GDB) 7.3.1 Copyright (C) 2011 Free Software Foundation, Inc. License GPLv3+: GNU GPL version 3 or later <http://gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html> This is free software: you are free to change and redistribute it. There is NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by law. Type "show copying" and "show warranty" for details. This GDB was configured as "x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu". For bug reporting instructions, please see: <http://www.gnu.org/software/gdb/bugs/>... Reading symbols from /opt/el-ogl2/el_client...(no debugging symbols found)...done. (gdb) run Starting program: /opt/el-ogl2/el_client [Thread debugging using libthread_db enabled] [New Thread 0x7fffeec7c700 (LWP 15374)] [New Thread 0x7fffee47b700 (LWP 15375)] terminate called after throwing an instance of 'eternal_lands::FileNotFoundException' what(): std::exception Program received signal SIGABRT, Aborted. 0x00007ffff41c5965 in raise () from /lib/libc.so.6 (gdb) bt #0 0x00007ffff41c5965 in raise () from /lib/libc.so.6 #1 0x00007ffff41c6ddb in abort () from /lib/libc.so.6 #2 0x00007ffff485a88d in __gnu_cxx::__verbose_terminate_handler() () from /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6 #3 0x00007ffff4858a36 in ?? () from /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6 #4 0x00007ffff4858a63 in std::terminate() () from /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6 #5 0x00007ffff4858b5e in __cxa_throw () from /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6 #6 0x00000000006e4ea3 in eternal_lands::FileSystem::get_file(boost::flyweights::flyweight<std::basic_string<wchar_t, std::char_traits<wchar_ >, std::allocator<wchar_t> >, boost::parameter::void_, boost::parameter::void_, boost::parameter::void_, boost::parameter::void_, boost::para eter::void_> const&) () #7 0x00000000006e4f36 in eternal_lands::FileSystem::get_file_string(boost::flyweights::flyweight<std::basic_string<wchar_t, std::char_traits wchar_t>, std::allocator<wchar_t> >, boost::parameter::void_, boost::parameter::void_, boost::parameter::void_, boost::parameter::void_, boos ::parameter::void_> const&) () #8 0x000000000052daf5 in load_harvestable_list () #9 0x000000000057a976 in init_stuff () #10 0x00000000004fc9f7 in main () (gdb) Some issue loading harvestable list? EDIT2: Ok so, unlike previously, when #data_dir points to a location that doesn't exist, rather than using the working the directory the client crashes out. Also the client was segfaulting if i copied all the directories i listed earlier from the git pull to the EL data dir. Instead I did only the shaders directory and now the client runs. EDIT3: Client runs but a couple of immediately noticeable issues: The green 'flecks' that appear when you click to walk to a location (and the red ones when u click to attack an entity and the yellow ones when you try to walk with range-lock enabled) are not appearing. Names, etc. are darker than before (too dark rly): My tests were with no ~/.elc already existing, so completely stock/default client settings. DETAILS OF MY SYSTEM: Arch Linux x86-64 (uses a static, non-rolling repo snapshot... however this snapshot was created only days ago so it's basically an up-to-date Arch system). Linux legion 3.1.2-1-ARCH #1 SMP PREEMPT Tue Nov 22 09:17:56 CET 2011 x86_64 AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 6000+ AuthenticAMD GNU/Linux nVidia GeForce GTX 460 SE extra/nvidia 290.10-1 [installed] XFCE 4.8 (window manager NOT in compositing mode) EDIT4: Setting "Shadow map count" above zero: Also note the transparency issues with textures on 2d objects. (Is there some more client data i need?) Also, I turned on "Poor Man" and it fixed the dark names issue, though i cannot as yet find the setting that was causing it... i've turned everything back on and the names remain fine (i have yet to restart the client though). EDIT5: Restarting the client has bought back the dark names. I (re-)grabbed the data from the files Radu posted, but doesn't seem to have affected much of anything.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-07-22/games-rating-agreement/2806200 In a country where the average age of a gamer is 30, the government has actually listened to the public for once, and after 10 years of debate, we'll finally be getting a R18+ rating for video games. Just like every other western world country. Gratz us. As someone who contacted Attorney-Generals, members of Parliament and participated in government discussion papers on this issue, this decision is one that makes my day.

Hmmm Boinc or SETI... decisions decisions

Can't you just post a link here..? If not, send it to me and i'll host a copy. (korrode at gmail dot com)

ya dun goofed

Update your video card drivers from the manufacturer's website 2cute. Do you know if your computer has nVidia or ATi card? and the model number?

i wonder how much longer we have to watch person after person with this issue before radu changes the standard port to something that wasn't once used by a trojan/worm ... not to mention that port 2000 is officially registered with IANA as being for Cisco SCCP.

I've read numerous times that the AMD/ATi binary driver fully supports the C50...

The best example of true fear mongering in the whole thread is from you. It's textbook. "omg no bots will make a sale eva" "all teh removal stones will be worth nothing" "70% of players will have mega alt army stealing spawns and bags and stuff" ...and so on. I would think anyone that truly wanted to see EL grow would be extremely progressive in regards to their stance on suggestions to game mechanic changes, as the game hasn't been growing, on average there's less players online now that there was years ago. Certainly my opinion is the exact counter of yours in that i believe that by not being willing to try something like this you are in fact the one with their head in the sand. I agree you can't do it blindly and/or arbitrarily, but I disagree that you can't compare them at all.

Sure, stuff like Anti perk come to mind, stuff that was obviously implemented under the pretense of no multiplay. Regarding Anti perk specifically, allowing multiplay will have the effect of removing the perk from the game, but I don't believe this to be a negative outcome. What parts of EL that are setup for one-character do you feel are positive and would be lost by allowing multiplay?

(Emphasis mine) This is incorrect. People can and do have multiple Battle.net accounts and have multiple characters logged in at once. You'll see that neither the WoW or Battle.net TOUs restrict doing this: http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/legal/wow_tou.html http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/about/termsofuse.html You can also see that the wording at some points even acknowledges that people could have multiple accounts. Section 14 in the b.net TOU is an example. i.e. "ALL ACCOUNTS REGISTERED TO YOU". EDIT: Personally, although I don't have multiple Battle.net accounts, i don't feel "disadvantaged" when I play. All that said, some system like WoW's where you have an "account" with multiple "toons" on it of which you can only have one of logged in at a time (and you can just mail stuff between them) is worth taking a closer look at for EL. I'm reluctant to use private servers as a basis for judging a game's balance as there's no telling what other changes have been made that impact it. Also, the point isn't to purposely look at low population private servers, the point is to look at popular, successful games. In regards to the PW main servers (which I have played on briefly btw, and I didn't note any ill-effects of multiplay, though I admit i wasn't there long): What are some of the key problems multiplay is causing? I'll dig up my PW account some time this week and have a closer look.

There would be nothing forcing anyone to have multiple characters, there won't even be anything making it immediately apparent that multiple characters are actually the one human. For people who don't feel the need to be 'highly competitive' they can just kick along on one char if they so choose. lol, the effect on the market as a result of increased supply is one of the best selling points for allowing multiplay. The market will be extremely competitive. For most players it will be a good thing. I personally wouldn't run an 'army of alts' if multiplay becomes legal (sure I will use my non-anti alt at NPC's and what not, but I won't be one of these people running 10 alts all harvesting and mixing and farming and whatever that seem to be of concern to those opposed to legal multiplay), the market-related benefits for me personally by having multiplay allowed will mostly be as a result of the actions of others, not myself. Regarding new players; at worst, there are still NPC driven income methods they can use, and a competitive and well supplied market will be good for them when they're the buyer. So, you wouldn't test out the game play on just one character and then decide if you want to stay? Gather some first hand experience and decide for yourself if you feel multiple characters is a must? The second you hear that it's common that people run multiple clients you'd just immediately up and quit? I don't think you represent "most people" at all. I think there's games with multiplay allowed that have millions of players whereas EL struggles to retain the thousand or so it has. I think that you may want to reconsider using any kind of "most people" argument. My comment relates to the thread as a whole and not necessarily any of your posts, Nova. Later, if i can be bothered, I'll specifically quote all the examples of fear mongering in this thread. Most likely I won't be bothered though, because I'll be busy running guaranteed profitable instances (that I won't have to find an "enter" for), partaking in competitive & low cost PK, and trading items between my chars. As per usual I see EL players that can only view things from their narrow, and probably naive, internal perspective. Arguments against legalising multiplay are weak and can have holes punched in them easily, where as the argument for multiplay has a big Bans forum section and many highly popular MMORPG's proving that allowing multiplay is a policy that at worst doesn't hinder the success of the game and at best increases the success. @Anyone who (MMORPG wise) has only ever played EL: I've been playing EL for 5 years now and although I like to think I've always been good at looking at the bigger picture, I can say with confidence that one of the best ways to gain more/better perspective and insight is by playing some other MMORPG's. Go play some other MMO's. Play blatantly successful and popular ones. Get ready to have your preconceived concepts smashed. The bad part about trying other games is that you'll see how in many ways EL is better than those games and the wasted potential will become more obvious, which is saddening and frustrating. Don't get me wrong, the combat and/or market systems in other games don't always directly compare to EL's, but the experience is very eye-opening nonetheless, and it's often easy to see how a modified variant would fit within the EL structure. Additional note: "Pure mixers", I mean people who really do not enjoy doing any form of combat in EL at all, don't bother trying other games, you won't like them from the get-go. You ofc don't represent the mentality and wants of the masses though (surely everyone can see that). Mind letting me know the names of these games? I'd like to try them. If there's truly games out there where the effect of multiplay is both prominent and negative, i'd like to investigate it. I'm of course open to changing my stance if i'm previewed to real evidence against legal multiplay.

that is a fair point groomsh, but, other than invasion/instance/pk/etc., I have a couple of times monitored the el client's bandwidth usage and I'd wager that I could train a/d on one char and harvest on another and even on a 56k modem still have a little bandwidth to spare. data transfer wise; the el client is actually pretty damn lean.

I still think all the fear mongering is funny. Claiming the effects would be devastating and what not. Really though, if outright multiplay was allowed tomorrow, in a month everyone except a stickler or two would still be playing, still training, still instancing, still mixing, still trading, still chatting, still making new friends and new enemies... the game would go on, just with less people being banned. Oh and to you people claiming you can't run 2 clients; you can, just make sure the console is always dropped on at least one of them. I once ran 2 clients on an older Celeron with 512MB RAM and Intel video and it was fine, stop with the bullshit. If your computer is so shit that you really can only run 1 client and not 2, you've probably got bigger worries in the near future anyway (i.e. upcoming OpenGL2 minimum requirement)... also, not to mention; you can always use hyperbags or even a normal bag in a remote place to move stuff from one char to another, if you really can only launch 1 client.

Download the latest graphics card driver from the graphics processor manufacturer's website (nVidia, AMD/ATi, etc.), just doing Windows update isn't enough.

Paid, thanks. 7SG703156A426912T (Transaction includes unrelated shop purchase)