CelticLady

I'm not saying it will work, just that I believe that is the idea behind it. To provide a reason for manuers to make some of the middle range swords (this of course combined with the summoning). And yes, I do mean incentive for more market flood. It's a way of levelling up without filling up storage and going broke. Lately I haven't seen alot of s2e's being advertised on market. Probably because most people don't use them. So either A: Manufacturers aren't making many (like myself) for B: they are just sitting around in storage because they generally only sell for 350gc each and would cost alot more to manu. With that said, I saw more people wanting to buy them yesturday than what was available. I am sure part of that is just the initial frenzy and will calm down in time. At least on initial view it seems to be helping get them out of people's storages and to have found a use for them. Not to mention that the price immediately went up to around 500gc each. Some people tried to sell theirs for more, but I don't know if they were successfull or not. Now, as long as they are required to mine the ore, and as long as it stays that you lose one on every attempt even if you are not successfull then there should be a decent and fairly constant demand for s2e's. If not only to mine the ore, but also because people got pk'ed and lost the ones they had. Eventually supply may outweigh demand again, but anything that helps to use a generally unused item is alright by me. As for a reason to use s2e..well, I haven't given that much thought. I'm not a writer, I just ramble (ask my guild mates on that). The only loose reasoning I came up with was that upon initially trying to mine the ore with with a pickaxe the miners found that the surrounding rock was too hard. When striking into the rock it broke the wood handles of the pickaxes. One of the miners happened to have a s2e that they carried for protection on them and they drove the point of the blade into the rock in frustration. To their surprise it embeded itself slightly into the rock. They began to wrestle the blade back and forth causeing a small cut to form. When realizing that the blade was better suited for removing the rock they started jabbing the blade in again and repeated the process until they had outlined a section of rock. The next step was to cram the blade as far in as they could and pry out the section they had cut around. After the process was finished they realized that the blade was completely dull, bent and essentially useless now. They did however have a small piece of ore that came out with the slab of rock. Upon seeing the glittering Hydrogenium ore they ran back to grab as many s2e's as they could carry and set out to mine more of this precious new ore.

that's true if they're there to get drops or cause problems. but what about the 'exclusive rights' version? where a tough PK guild might blockade the place, and you're either in their guild, pay, or get attacked?and it's all well and good to carry dis rings, but they don't help much since cooldown, not if there's more than one blockader Point taken...how bout this? Dis rings + bodyguards = you get in to mine + smart harv/manu'er talks camping guild into letting them in on further excursions in exchange for gc/manu services etc... There are ways around it. And even if you have to make a deal with them, what's wrong with that? I'm sure I could come up with a few more if I weren't so tired, not to mention I wouldn't want every one of my competitors to know my strategies I can see why alot of people aren't going to like it. I just personally think it is kind of a good thing. It will seriously limit the amount of people mining/selling the ore and in turn keep the price of the armor up. Will give me something to work towards and have to figure out something else for once other than how many leather helms I need to make for my next manu lvl. Each person is entitled to their own opinion. People complained about how expensive COL and such is, but I see them regularly now. People will complain about how expensive the new armor is, but they will still buy it when they have the gc. I personally want the price to stay high. Not only because I could potentially make more money that way but also because any newb with several hours of lupine picking can buy plate and a serp now.... Once again, just throwing out my 2gc

Excellent point Thordin. Some will realize that they will need the harvers to get the ore so they can have shiny new armor. There will still be others who like to sit there and pick us off just cause they can, but that is what dis rings are for. So I'd have to sacrifice a slot for them...no big deal, they stack. And yeah, I'd be kinda mad if I got pk'ed on my way there and I'd cuss a blue streak in guild chan, but that's no different then when I crit failed on an enchanted sword earlier. There are risks of one kind or another in alot of different aspects of the game. This just poses a new obsticle for us to figure out how to work around.

This is the same first line I just put on my post in our guild forum about this: I like it in a sick twisted sort of way and hate it in a WTF was he thinking???? kind of way. Here is my take on it...yeah, it'll be a hassle and will make the new plate insanely expensive (good for me when I start selling it ) and will take alot of creative thinking and teamwork on how to get it in enough quantity for as little money as possible. But ya know what??? I'll do what I need to to get it. Less people willing to go through the trouble to get it means less pk'ers sitting at the entrance to kill you. They will spend their time elsewhere or harv/sell the ore themselves. And, if I recall correctly, it is illegal to block resources or entrances so they will have to leave a way for you to get in.(They can still try and pk you, but can't just block the entire entrance I don't think) Once inside it is no longer PK. So in theory you can mine unmolested by them and get the heck out with your well deserved ore. Am I crazy about the idea? Heck NO!!! I'm a lover...erm...manu'er, not a fighter, so pk maps are not on my list of places to go. But I will find a way to get that ore. Even though now I will need to start making s2e's which I never made before cause I couldn't sell em for much. *shrug* Anyways...Ent, you are so twisted I love it This game is rarely ever boring to me.

This is the thread on the steel plate which also rox http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=23624 Bird? I thought it looked more like a dragon *shrugs*

OMG!!!! Roja, you have out done yourself! I will be in manu heaven when that comes out *starts saving her gc for more manu books*

Sold!

Ok, now I see that you are only taking into account the price that NPC will pay for the items. Well, to only look at that part of the equation is folly. It is very easy to look at those prices at face value, but to ignore the entire scheme of things that it will affect just doesn't make sense. Entropy asked for formula/price change opinions to help with the economy. For you to offer proposed formula changes without taking the whole economy into consideration just doesn't work. Lowering the profit margin on FE by only using the NPC prices doesn't work in practice. It changes the price of FE on market and in doing so changes the price of every item that uses FE in its production. Just making that one change to FE formula would cause alot of other changes to happen. That fact can't be ignored. Either the price of FE will more than double or it would stay roughly the same and the price of sulphur would drop drastically. If the price of sulphur dropped then ppl would stop harving it as Longshot stated. If the price of sulphur stayed the same and the price of FE jumped then the people who do buy it would stop buying and would harv their own sulphur and make their own FE. All items that use FE anywhere in their equation would jump in production cost. Production times would increase dramatically as it would take much longer to harv the sulphur for FE's. That in itself would help with overproduction, but I think in a potentially negative way. As ThordinElement stated also, FE is beginning Alch.It is also the first step to getting new players off the lupine/lilac addiction and into market. If you triple the sulphur requirement then it will take them all that much longer to get started in Alch and off the flower runs. There are probably at least a few other things that one proposed change would also affect, but those are what come to mind at the moment. To ignore them just doesn't make sense in my opinion. I know you didn't want to get into the whole economy discussion, but your proposed changes affect the economy.

Ok, still not getting where you are coming from on the FE issue. I certainly don't agree that margins on FE's are much more than other things. If you buy the ingreds to make them then you are paying 2.5-3gc per FE they sell on market for 3gc each. Adding additional sulphur to the formula raises the base cost to 6.5-7gc per. Sulphur usually sells on market for around 2gc each, sometimes alittle less. In my opinion FE and WE don't need a change in formulas to be in line with market price. Not to mention that changing the formula/cost for an item that is used to make other items also ultimately changes the formula/cost of those other items as well. I commend you for trying to answer Entropy's question from the other thread(perhaps your original post should have gone on that thread, but I understand you didn't want it burried in the off-topic swing that thread went on). I just personally don't agree with your proposed formula changes for FE and WE.

You said: "2. FE valuation is more than input hence change in input for 2 extra sulphur. Will it make FE costlier? No. It is produced in mass quantity. The supply will still hold, only margins will shrink. Also should it be 2 sulphur or 3 sulphur. I think 3 sulphur but to begin with 2 sulhur may be used." Maybe I am not understanding you correctly, but how will the cost of FE not go up? Adding two more sulphur will raise the cost to make a single FE by 4gc. And that alone would raise the cost to make a ti bar by 28gc(iirc ti bar requires 7FE, I haven't made one in awhile so it could be less). Like others have said, I don't think that too few WE is the problem with crafting. And why would it be hard to get sapphires(I currently have about 8k sapps sitting in my storage)? Beacause the book to mine them costs 10k? Well, if you are getting into crafting then you should have some extra gc to throw around anyways because you can't get a fast ROI. As for lowering the amount of bars used for low level swords, yes it would bring the cost more in line with market selling price. But the problem is still that there isn't much demand for them. You said that your post wasn't about fixing the economy, but by trying to adjust formulas to better match selling price you are in effect trying to do just that. I understand what you meant(i think), but it is still basically the same. Like I said, I may not be fully understanding what you are trying to convey. This is just my 2cents on it.

I am a manufacturer. I do a bit of everything, but my main skill is manu. In some ways I see this (and the idea on the other thread about using lower lvl item to make higher lvl ones) as a viable idea. I'm not sure it will necessarily help the economy much, but I like the idea. This is part of the problem I see with the economy: Everyone wants to make money. In turn they price their items slightly (or in some cases drastically) lower than the average just to make a sale. After that happens a few times then the buyer sees this new price point and will no longer pay the higher standard price. The new price point becomes standard and the cycle starts over again. In selling items for less the seller must create more items to make the same amount of money they previously did with fewer items. Now, I don't know about other manufacturers, but I for one don't have alot of low level weapons sitting around in storage that I am trying to sell. Even after them being added to the summoning formulas (which I am still glad was implemented) I have not made a single low level item for a summoner. For leveling it's leather helms and they get sold to trik. I break even on the helms so no gc is added to my pocket from making them. For money(and hopes of a modable) I make steel longs and sell to Trik. For the time it takes for me to harv all the ingredients and make them I am by no means rich. I also have some of the higher level items that i keep in stock for sales on Market, but generally not in quanties higher than 20 unless I am going to go on a selling spree and try to make some cash. How does the above relate to the topic of recycling? I don't have alot of low level items sitting around to recycle. Would I make some for the reason of recycling? Maybe, if we received xp from taking the item apart. Would I make low level items if they were required in the formula for higher level items? You bet I would. But the fact remains the same that I don't make alot of weapons other than steel longs so I would just be making an iron sword>iron broad>steel long and selling to Trik for money. It would take longer for the whole process as it would add two steps required per sword, and I guess if there are people with alot of weapons sitting around then they could at least make something else out of it. On taking items back apart. This could be interesting from the stand-point of if I had 20 steel shields and needed to make a few steel chain right away for a guild mate but had no bars. I could take apart the shields and re-use the bars to make the chains. I like that idea. Could help to balance out some of a persons inventory if needed. I also liked the idea of being able to repair weapons/armor. This doesn't get items out of the market, but does make sense as a manufacture skill. I mean, since I have the knowledge and skill to make full plate and ti axe then why can't I repair it if it becomes damaged? Make it require a higher skill lvl and books to repair the items. So to sum up my thoughts on this idea(and to stop straying from the topic). I like the idea. For my specific situation it won't help me much, if at all. As far as helping the economy, I am not sure if it will have a large impact on the problem, but I don't see how it would hurt it further.

No, I don't think this would be a good idea to help the economy. From a manufacturers perspective and from the mindset of coming from a relatively small guild. Our guild has a few decent manu'ers. I am the highest lvl manu'er we have and I for one am not much of a fighter. We do have several fighters in the guild and I would not mind donating some to help them with temp stat increases, but I don't see this as as partial solution to the economy problem. I have been mulling over the economy problem for quite awhile now. Unfortunately I don't really have any suggestions on how to fix it other than a couple that are better suited for a different thread so I won't post them here. My answer would be no. Larger guilds would have alot more advantage than smaller ones, not to mention people who choose to be guildless. And non-pk guilds, who tend to have less fighters, wouldn't care much for the proposed added bonuses.

Today in NC north cave a guildmate and myself were harving/muling iron ore. vanpiranegra was killing the armed gobs during this time. She knew we were working together as she had seen me step off the bag several times to let my guildmate on to get iron. Well, one time I stepped off and Star accidentally got in a fight with an armed gob so I attempted to get back on the bag, but before I could vanpiranegra jumped on it. We both asked for her to get off the bag and she stayed for quite a while and when she did get off she said "thanks". While on it she stole some Sr's and He's. We asked for her to give back and she said "no". Others at the mine said she does it all the time and doesn't speak english...well she had no problem saying "thanks" and "no". Just a warning to watch out when she is around. Here is the stripped down chat log i placed her English responses in bold: CelticLady: can we have the bag pls Morning_Star: van please move vanpiranegra: thanks Morning_Star: give sr back vanpiranegra: valew [Morning_Star @ guild]: cl look zorro: bagjumper give it back CelticLady: pleas gove sr's back vanpira Morning_Star: took picks and sr and some he's CelticLady: * please give Dragami: vampira is a freaking bag jumper CelticLady: :/ Dragami: she only speaks portuguese vanpiranegra: no Dragami: and she steals from bags here all the time Dragami: stole 100 steel bars vanpiranegra: ha ha Morning_Star: put her on a pk list Dragami: once zorro: give it back zorro: she already is on mine CelticLady: if we had one she would be on it :/ Dragami: lol You started to harvest Iron Ore. Morning_Star: cl i brb zorro: you need to make your own pk list CelticLady: k CelticLady: Dawn doesn't allow pk Dragami: even if there is a pk list? CelticLady: none of our members is allowed to pk Morning_Star: not in dawn

Well, I was sort of considering going along the assumption that maybe she didn't mean to do it...until today, she admitted she is a bagjumper. Now you can still say that she didn't understand what a bagjumper is, but after watching her behavior in the cave more since I have been mining there alot, I think she knows just fine what it is. Short chat log from today and I hope reigner5 doesn't mind me posting the pm's between us. Morgul: do you know if vampiranegra is around here? reigner5: dont know reigner5: ive just reported her CelticLady: she was earlier so watch your bag x_penguin_x: she got mine yesterday reigner5: got laughing at people when fighting making them lose concentration Morgul: is she a known bag jumper? reigner5: yes CelticLady: she got mine too Morgul: she shouldn't do that You entered the Nordcarn storage You started to harvest Iron Ore. reigner5: u a bagjumper vanp vanpiranegra: yes reigner5: hey leelee vanpiranegra: ]: Too heavy, you are overloaded. You stopped harvesting. [PM to reigner5: did she just admit to you that she is a bagjumper?] vanpiranegra: lol [PM from reigner5: yes] reigner5: hmm

I understand what some of you have said about her being young and doesn't understand how to play. I also understand that she may not have meant to do that maliciously. The fact of the matter still remains...she bagjumped us. The reason for my post is to warn people that she does it. I am all for giving people a second chance, but if she doesn't understand that it is wrong then she will continue to do it. It seems by what others in the mine said, she has been doing this for awhile. So be careful when she is around. I didn't continue to try and talk with her about it because she said she wouldn't give it back and laughed later. It now seems that it wouldn't have made a difference anyways as she doesn't understand English well. I don't hate her or wish any ill will on her, I will just be alot more careful around her and hope that others will as well. I still stand by my decision to post about her here. She did bagjump us (even if it wasn't with malicious intent) and others should be aware that she does it.

Well, I would think that by now she should know that it isn't right to do that. I have seen her playing for quite some time now. And if she really doesn't speak English then how am I supposed to do that? I was very polite in asking for the bag and for the items back. She said "no". If you can speak her language then by all means please help her to understand how the game works and that taking things that aren't hers isn't right.

As a manufacturer I agree with Puntif on this one. I don't even make Iron Swords or Iron Broads unless it is for a guildie or a friend. And I also agree with the others on the fact that both these swords are common drops. I love the idea of adding in manu'able items into summoning formulas, but I don't think these will help offer me a new outlet for sales on these items. I would however like to see s2e's or ti shorts be added as I think these would help with sales, atleast somewhat. Or, how about this: 1 iron helm or s2e (I would be happy with either one) 6 bones 2 death ess = phantom warrior Just an idea.

Armor 7 Iron Helms - 200gc each 12 Steel Shields - 400gc each 5 Steel Chains - 800gc each 2 Iron Greaves - 3.5k gc each 1 Iron Cuisses - 4k gc each 1 Ti Chain - 4.5k gc each 1 Iron Plate Torso - 8k gc each Weapons 4 Ti Short Swords - 500gc each 2 Ti Serp Sword - 4.5k gc each 2 Steel Axe - 1.5k gc each Crafted Items 20 VOTD Rings - 90gc each 10 WS Rings - 70gc each 10 PL Rings - 70gc each 10 DP Rings - 70gc each 35 Dis Rings - 90gc each 25 Dmg Rings - 60gc each 4 Unicorn Medallions - 150gc each 5 Stars Medallions - 150gc each 25 Moon Medallions - 240gc each PM me in-game CelticLady I will try and keep this list as up to date as possible

faladian, PM me in-game whenever you are ready to buy. Thanks And btw, I updated the list to show additional items available and updated quantities.

Hi Metal5, glad to hear you are interested in Dawn. As I stated in my previous post you need to fill out a joining application at our forum to be considered for membership. Fill out an application here: http://www.myfreebulletinboard.com/f/index.php?mforum=dawnp& I'll try to catch you in-game, but feel free to pm me or any other member to chat or if you have questions.

Like I said, PM me in-game and I will be more than happy to sell.

Hi you two. Just PM me in-game and I'll be happy to sell them to ya. I will also be making more of both. This list is just what I happen to have at the moment.

I have been asked these questions several times so I will answer them here as well... Yes, Harvest is a skill. No, Overall is not a skill. You must have at least one skill at lvl 20 or higher to join. We are a non-pk guild. We do however allow pvp training and defending yourself if you are attacked. You must fill out a joining application to be considered for membership. Fill out an application here: http://www.myfreebulletinboard.com/f/index.php?mforum=dawnp& Any other questions about joining Dawn of the Phoenix please feel free to PM: CelticLady, Cayuga, Asmodina, Misguided_Angel or Atavar in-game. From the ashes of long times past few are remembered. A Phoenix Guardian is never forgotten, but is reborn to rise again in a burst of flame and continue the legacy. Do you want to be remembered for your honorable deads, or to drift into the wind without a trace or second thought like the ashes of so many other fires that have died out? Challenge yourself and see if you have what it takes to become a Phoenix Guardian.

I personally love this armor and can't wait to manu it. I'm just hoping I have a high enough manu lvl and available picks when it is released. Two thumbs up Roja, great work!

ibsof has been sold