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What would you do to "fix" KF?

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6 hours ago, bralex said:

 

Removing CD for SRs would solve nothing, and you know why? You can spam SRs or EMPs without any setback. The old PK days didn't have that problem and fights didn't last forever because (beaver tokens) didn't exist and mana management was a thing, and to counter the amount of potions you brought to a fight they didn't stack. 

 

 

I never EVER want to see that stupid skill buffed back to the way it was unless shortbows also get buffed to the shooting speed they used to be and other combat skills reverted back to the way they were after the big update which changed EL's fighting formula and caps went to 48...

Spamming 1 button and spamming another in quick succession and whoever had the most HP won, yeah... no thanks it was just as OP if not more OP than beaver tokens. Remove beaver tokens and bring back mana management and i'd be on board with this. 

 

-solo

Mana management would still be the same with or without cd, as long as tokens were removed.        you shouldn't need tokens if you have no cd (Makes it better for lower players that can't afford the 40k/pop of a token)      Eliminating the tokens is not necessarily a bad idea either.

 

Like I said, I believe we can come up with a system that works for ALL.    Clearly I want to see everyone and even more people come and have fun without being completely demolished by a group of 170s,  If I were after self gain, I'd propose the obvious and us elite pkers would continue to be the only ones pking...    This isn't about that for me, shouldn't be about that for you either.    

 

With no cd, a noob can go in an spam br/sr/emps or whatever JUST like the old days :D.

 

Regardless, I'd love to see a safe area inside KF for spectators.    

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1.  Return KF to normal, just no drop;

2.  Make beaver tokens not work in pk areas;

3.  Plenty of capped pk arenas in game already;

4.  Keep current srs/emps/brs/ghp cd;

5.  Keep 1 sec cd on rc mines/deto's; and 

6.  A KF spectator area would be cool, but couldn't have magic reach into it or out of it.

Edited by Ozmondius

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As someone who is mostly uninterested in PK, what changes would it take for me to get involved in PK (in KF or otherwise)?

  • Redesign certain spells (Magic Immunity being the main offender).
    • This deserves an entire topic to itself, really.
  • Clearly indicate fighting conditions/rules of PK areas (KF or otherwise).
    • Drop/no drop, rostos work/don't work, capped a/d, capped attributes, instant summoning possible/not, magic on/off, etc.
  • My mine/engineering knowledge is extremely limited, but as it seems to have been brought up a lot, consider some of the changes those more knowledgeable have posted above.

Specific to KF in particular, since that is the topic of this thread. 

  • Incentivize the ever living eff out of the map. Possibly including but not necessarily limited to:
    • Put a gypsum mine in KF
    • Put essence/bar factories all over the place
    • Remove aggressive monster spawns, replace with non-aggressive high-profit spawns.
      • Basically make KF a Maia harvester's heaven. Have special very-fast respawn points.
    • Turn off Brod effects for PvP fights whether or not the player has CotU/equivalent equipped.
    • Add Neno as a permanent resident (similar to Badaran in Idaloran)
    • Add BR/SR/HE drops all over (NCA Mercury style).
    •  
  • As others have suggested above, possibly carve out areas with different rules/caps/etc.
    • Whether the intent of Matt's '120 cap' suggestion or not, possibly consider making players under a specified a/d unattackable by players over said specific a/d (whether the area caps a/d or attributes or not).
  • Add small non-PK zones to each of the over-land map entrances (as suggested above, but from SKF and DP as well) Or:
  • Redesign the entire map to have different areas with different rules all connected by a Non-PK path network (Think the PVMS biomes room where the individual biomes are PK areas all with different rules, and the upper areas are all non-PK). Include the 'incentivize the ever living eff out of the map' suggestions into the new redesign as well
  • Have PKer of the Month/Year (EL-time) competition. Track statistics somehow, have lottery-style shout-out to 'best' PKer of the whatever time period is chosen.

TL:DR

 

Do basically anything the folks above are suggesting cause the current sucks and I have no reason to ever go to KF.

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Diealot has a point, bring something to kf. It might bring more players, but then again while PKing can be fun. It is certainly costly, I still believe we should have an use for PKI or a new system that can't be farmed that easily (killed by magic, range, or pvp, doubt we can detect bombs or summoning kills), but I digress from the point.

So yeah put something in KF that would bring players there.

Could be a regular neno (no nexus stone drop), a red dragon ??

Gypsum seems to makes sense (I know aislinn and a few more would approve of this :P), as it weighs tons of emu anyway.

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On 22/06/2021 at 1:00 PM, dragon_killer said:

Diealot has a point, bring something to kf. It might bring more players, but then again while PKing can be fun. It is certainly costly, I still believe we should have an use for PKI or a new system that can't be farmed that easily (killed by magic, range, or pvp, doubt we can detect bombs or summoning kills), but I digress from the point.

So yeah put something in KF that would bring players there.

Could be a regular neno (no nexus stone drop), a red dragon ??

Gypsum seems to makes sense (I know aislinn and a few more would approve of this :P), as it weighs tons of emu anyway.

 

I have been saying for years that there should be a resource of some sort that is needed,  and only available in KF. People need a reason to go in and fight for something. Once upon a time it

was Merc.  Now it there is nothing, except for as flower daily.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Wizzy said:

 

I have been saying for years that there should be a resource of some sort that is needed,  and only available in KF. People need a reason to go in and fight for something. Once upon a time it

was Merc.  Now it there is nothing, except for as flower daily.

 

 

Issue i see with that - is that people would just go in naked - so would do nothing for PK - think NCA, yes there would be more kills - but more pointless kills.


I'd see it not a case of making a reason for people to go into PK - but make a reason for people to want to go into PK and try their skills. 
PK itself is fcuked and I don't think can ever come back - EL is too spread out - and too few players for proper PK.

Instead think of how / where voluntary combat can be brought in to EL - this has been tried with arenas, td , kf nca - all sorts of places.. nothing has worked - SO FAR!

 

I think the best idea yet is the no pk part of kf so people can watch (and learn) - but what's the betting someone abuses that in some unknown way.

 

Many many years ago - when I started - I was told how great KF was and how much fun PK was - so I wandered into KF naked to see what it was all about - was killed within seconds, repeat that a few times - guess what I aint bothering anymore.

 

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I basically see two kinds of PK-ers:

- those that want to test their skills against a human opponent, not just the programmed monsters;

- those that just want to have a large number of kills for whatever reason.

 

Adding resources to a PK map only benefits the second group, the first group doesn't need any lures.

And the players that feel they need to go into a PK map due to that added resource will indeed go in

naked or with the absolute minimum gear needed.

 

For the first group, maps with different kinds of limitations are probably much more interesting.

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Well, merc was the example above. It could be a new ore that you need to harvest with cutlass's. But creating a reason to go and fight over makes the most sense.

This is also why hydro bars should never have been added to the NPC

 

But oh well

 

 

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14 hours ago, revi said:

I basically see two kinds of PK-ers:

- those that want to test their skills against a human opponent, not just the programmed monsters;

- those that just want to have a large number of kills for whatever reason.

 

Increasing the amount of the 2nd type of these could increase the amount of the 1st of these. Hunters hunting the hunters.

 

Is this a sure thing? No, but I think there's a reasonable chance it could work with KF rules and location (as opposed to II where the 'incentivize to non-pkers' is the strategy at a dead-end in the middle of nowhere).

 

As I said before: 

Do basically anything the folks above are suggesting cause the current sucks and I have no reason to ever go to KF.

 

What's your suggestion, revi?

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1.  Return KF to normal, just no drop;

2.  Make beaver tokens not work in pk areas;

3.  Plenty of capped pk arenas in game already;

4.  Keep current srs/emps/brs/ghp cd;

5.  Keep 1 sec cd on rc mines/deto's; and 

6.  A KF spectator area would be cool, but couldn't have magic reach into it or out of it.

7. No summons 

 

I agree to all except point 2 coz if there is invasion in pk areas u cant use token and they really help sometimes and tbh beavers r limited and if its not capped you will do the damage :> 

or 

if u can find a way to not use only during a pk fight , which is hard i guess

Edited by violater

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Then add something to KF that requires armor/weap etc gear to kill/harvest/mix whatever it is. Or something that needs a group of people, at least 2-3 to do.

 

Then maybe guilds "mean" something again.

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Anyone else reading this and just thinking how horribly convoluted it's getting?

Add something people want onto KF. "They'll go naked." Enforce wearing random stuff that makes no sense... And what would this thing people want be in the first place? I don't see a bunch of new stuff being added just for KF (the item in question, plus what the item is used for), and no current harvestables would get changed just to put them solely in KF.

And you know how this will work out, just like NC mercury and the hydro route... someone way too overpowered will sit around and screw with normal players. That's not PK, that's fish in a barrel.
 

 

Trying to force people who don't want to PK onto a map in order to do (reason) is not your solution. They'll never be what you want to force them to be.

Focus on what would get people who actually want to PK on there instead.

Edited by Burn

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Being "a bit" of a pk noob who wants to get into it but doesn't, I would say;

 

-no drop is definitely a good thing (specific maps only, obviously).

-tokens should not be usable in pk

 

-a spectator zone around a map entrance would be fantastic and having a capped area (the fields?) and an uncapped area (forts?) sounds nice, as long as it's not overdone, turning the map into a confusing mess.

-I'll leave the ideas about balancing engineering and summoning to those who have plenty more experience than myself, except to say - enough skills have already been rendered nearly useless/pointless - disabling eng/summoning items completely sounds awful.
(An idea: How about instead of killing engineering in pk, make a new cape that moderately negates the effects of engineering items? This adds to the strategy of pk, instead of removing options for those who wish to participate? Couple this with disabling tokens, and people don't have to keep CotU on constantly. This even grants a little use back to crafting, as people might use combat rings a bit more)

***The one definitive thing that keeps me out of casually entering pk: TOKENS. Every element of pk should involve some amount of rl skill imo - beaver and brownie tokens are nothing but death to this concept. They should not work in any pk area anywhere.***

Edited by daniken

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