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Aislinn

Possible Invance Rehab?

Possible Invance Rehab?  

94 members have voted

  1. 1. Should the bonus experience be removed from invances?

    • Yes, and allow players to wear whatever they want and participate as much as they want.
      37
    • Yes, but keep the required gear rules AND participation rules.
      9
    • No, leave invances as they are now.
      47
  2. 2. If the bonus experience is removed, should there be an additional bonus per hit?

    • Yes, 1.25 times current normal experience.
      6
    • Yes, 1.5 times current normal experience.
      5
    • Yes, 2 times current normal experience.
      22
    • No, leave the critter per hit experience as it is now.
      25
    • Does not apply as I voted to leave invances as they are now in question 1.
      35
  3. 3. Should gatekeeper get an automatic bonus? (method to be determined)

    • Yes, as long as only one person per invance does the job and can get the bonus. Otherwise it will be abused.
      33
    • No, gatekeeper just stands or sits there and doesn't do much.
      20
    • Yes, with no restrictions on how many people can be gatekeeper in any given invance.
      7
    • Does not apply as I voted to leave invances as they are now in question 1.
      33


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Self explanatory, I think.

Discussion in addition to voting is encouraged.

(Yes radu knows I'm doing this :mace: )

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It's compulsory to answer questions 2 & 3 even though the options don't make sense if you want to leave invances as they are (which I do), so I haven't voted. Thank you for fixing that. I have cast my vote now.

 

I don't want the experience bonus to be removed because it's the only reason I go, and the proposed compensatory changes wouldn't benefit me. The monsters are mostly too strong for me and I can't fight them (admittedly my build is a bit of a mess at the moment), so I range instead. I do get the money back for my PK arrows from the MB and dragon drops, but I could get more profit spending the invance time harvesting, and the range exp isn't much. Even if the ranging exp was doubled, I don't think it would provide a very strong incentive.

Edited by extrapolation

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I voted first, third and last option.

That would mean that someone who doesn't help much won't get good experience from an invance (which is the idea :P )

 

But; I'd like to see the gatekeeper bonus related to the time spent as gate keeper (say a point at every minute start, with a pro rata distribution of the bonus at the end).

 

Also, even twice normal fighting experience might be a lot less than current experience + bonus for most of the fighters. And I suppose that the experience bones covers all relevant fighting skills (att, def, ran, mag, and sum)

 

It's compulsory to answer questions 2 & 3 even though the options don't make sense if you want to leave invances as they are (which I do), so I haven't voted.

 

If you want to leave the invances as they are, you could answer 'No', 'No, and 'No' (all three leave the situation as it is now)

Edited by revi

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It's compulsory to answer questions 2 & 3 even though the options don't make sense if you want to leave invances as they are (which I do), so I haven't voted.

 

Oh, excellent point. Let me see if I can add options to reflect that. Added, thank you for pointing that out.

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I see the point of this topic, but i don't like the options.

 

First, the reward experience will be far less than before, even if it's twice than normal.

 

Second, at least for 120-200, a player with 120 att/def can't really kill something on his own(except hawks and tigers). So is not really fair if not everyone has the same chance. This works now because you can range and get the exp in the end. But what will a ranger get applying any of the changes above? Double range exp? It's a lot cheaper to train with training arrows in GP. And believe me, i burn up to 650-900 pka during an invance and the share from 2 mbs will rarely be above 20kgc.

 

So i agree that everyone should be motivated to work and not just wait for free exp, but i'd rather choose to leave it as it is than any other option.

Edited by Domino

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Ok, let me give you some ideas what will happens if you will do such changes:

 

1. If you will remove additional exp bonus - what is the point to play invances then? Much safer will be just to stay on spot, because no dragons will attack you while you fighting leg orcs or cockatrices, for example.

 

2. Less people play invance - less deaths, less rosto selling - less money for teh_god. Personally, if you will remove bonus at the end - I'll stop doing invances.

 

3. Make 1.5-2x times exp from mobs - well, maybe it will keep people motivated to fight and die, but not much. Wait 20 minutes til it starts, lose spot just for 10-20 minutes of active fighting with 1.5-2x exp and then lose your spot or so on - for me, it's also doesn't worth it.

 

4. Well, invances and instances are main way to have fun and some profit in the game. Radu already buried instances after some updates and stivy still locking Red Dragon - buying scales from his bots for 4kgc each while I can shoot RD and get scale for 1.5kgc. According to crap drop from instances sometimes it doesn't even cover scales, and good chance to lose rosto of course. If you will change invances and make it useless for people - I don't think it worth to play EL anymore, except once per week do WTF insta with friends until Radu will bury it too.

 

5. I didn't get the idea about gatekeeper - what do you want to do. I thought, for now he also gets same exp bonus as other players, and he does his work very well so far.

 

And most interesting question for me:

Why you don't like invances as-is they are at the moment?

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@SunriseCoder:

The goal is to provide the opportunity for more people to have fun. Many don't go now because of the gear restrictions and participation rules. The second and third questions only apply if the experience bonus was removed per question 1.

 

The problem with invances as they are now:

1. Many don't go because of gear and/or participation rules.

2. Many go for the fun of it and teamwork aspect, not necessarily the bonus.

3. Many go and do nothing or next to nothing yet get a huge bonus.

4. There are daily issues about acceptable gear and participation.

 

The idea is to increase the number of people who can participate and have fun, and decrease the number of hassles and amount of moderation needed so people can just go and have some mostly unregulated fun.

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Never agreed with the general idea of invance but from my point of view this is what is should look like:

  • No exp bonus
  • More boss monsters (stimulate teamwork)
  • More and better rare drops
  • No gate keeper required. Maybe add a NPC the group has to protect? Add a actual gate with xxxx HP that can be attacked by monsters etc?
  • Make it more rare with diffrent monsters spawn. Currently people just camp specific spots (hawks by glacmore flag, chims behind fort? yeti west of fort etc etc)
  • Make some areas PK? We don't want the drama to end now do we? ^^
  • Reduce the waiting time (remove it all for cost**). **Radu remember that talk we had about "shop credits?"

Problem with invance at the moment is, it's to predictable. People have invances down as if there were a guide. Invaces at the moment is just free exp for dummies™.

 

Cya nerds

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The problem with invances as they are now:

1. Many don't go because of gear and/or participation rules.

 

Maybe we need to change rules if they don't let to people go instead of deprive fun people who following this rules?

 

2. Many go for the fun of it and teamwork aspect, not necessarily the bonus.

 

Well, remove bonus and look how many will left.

 

3. Many go and do nothing or next to nothing yet get a huge bonus.

 

I thought, you banning such kind of players, aren't you?

For this purpose you even made no bonus for people our of a/d range.

 

4. There are daily issues about acceptable gear and participation.

 

Yeah, you made also 14 hours cooldown...

 

Btw, what do you think of separate 120-200 to 120-140, 140-160, 160-180 and 180-200?

 

1. People without gear can be effective, as long no dragons attacking 120 a/d rangers or they don't risk to get raped by 5 Giants at once.

2. In such 120-200 people with 120 a/d getting just few gc drops, using a lot of resources for tanking for 160-170s people. I tanked nasps from 120-140 a/d while somebody 160s attack and get the drop. For now situation is better, but still there are a lot of people who are below 150 a/d.

3. People with 160-170s a/d are just enjoying such invance, firstly killing stuff which can kill people with 120-140 a/d, then start to kill mobs which 120-140 people can't kill. This way they deprive weaker players to do some useful job for a team and getting most of the drops.

 

Here, I think, real problems of why people don't do team work and so on.

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Maybe we need to change rules if they don't let to people go instead of deprive fun people who following this rules?

Well yes, that is exactly what we are looking at here.

 

 

Well, remove bonus and look how many will left.

That would be a shame, it should be about fun. And that's why question #2, so it isn't totally removed. Maybe those numbers could be tweaked.

 

 

I thought, you banning such kind of players, aren't you?

For this purpose you even made no bonus for people our of a/d range.

No idea what you are talking about here.

 

 

Yeah, you made also 14 hours cooldown...

I don't understand this either. I wasn't referring to how many times people go in a day.

 

 

Btw, what do you think of separate 120-200 to 120-140, 140-160, 160-180 and 180-200?

I think you should stop yelling and you divided it up into too many groups but yes, I think 120+ should be divided at the very least to 120-140 then 140+ .

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If we do any of this, we should split the 120-140 off from the 140+. Second, If they want to remove the armor requirement, fine. BUT! if they die because they can't defend against a monster that is on their head and their teams head.

 

We can throw this in to encurage people to arm up, If you lose the invance, all exp is forfitted.

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Not going to vote but here are my opinions:

  • Keep the reward but make it half.
  • Add a bonus experience per kill. For example, if a monster gives me 100/90 a/d points per hit/dodge, the bonus reward would be 1000/900.
  • Remove many of the low HP monsters and add ones with high HP. Add more boss monsters for each level. That means for the 60-80 range, add some 65 a/d monster that has 30k HP. They will need to cooperate to kill those monsters.
  • Dramatically increase the range of harm spells in invances (only in invances). Mages will be able to help from distance. I honestly think this will make things more enjoyable.
  • Make CoM half the mana in invances (only in invances). Initial high mana is only useful so much. It is the rate at which mana is used and effectiveness that makes a difference.
  • Once the first monster spawns, make the inside of the fort a PK area with a 30 second warning period. If you afk inside for more than 30 seconds, you are PKable.
  • Keep the high armor requirements. Low level armor removes the need for rostogols.

Edited by hussam

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If there is still the problem of people claiming exp for invances they don't help in, could the exp reward be proportional to the time spent on the invance map? Honest people going to restock won't be noticeably affected, cheaters who don't stay on the map would hardly get any benefit.

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I thought, you banning such kind of players, aren't you?

For this purpose you even made no bonus for people our of a/d range.

No idea what you are talking about here.

Did you already forgot it?

http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=57414

Or this:

http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=57405

Or especially this:

http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=57310

 

And as I remember, radu implemented it: Made possible to mods to ban players from invances and even made possibility to mods to come invisible in invances and watch some people who get abused.

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@SunriseCoder:

The goal is to provide the opportunity for more people to have fun. Many don't go now because of the gear restrictions and participation rules. The second and third questions only apply if the experience bonus was removed per question 1.

 

The problem with invances as they are now:

1. Many don't go because of gear and/or participation rules.

2. Many go for the fun of it and teamwork aspect, not necessarily the bonus.

3. Many go and do nothing or next to nothing yet get a huge bonus.

4. There are daily issues about acceptable gear and participation.

 

The idea is to increase the number of people who can participate and have fun, and decrease the number of hassles and amount of moderation needed so people can just go and have some mostly unregulated fun.

 

So this are the issues, but the solutions proposed seem to create bigger issues from my point of view(strong ppl will get 90% and little will be left for others).

 

What about this: condition the rewarding exp on a limit of hits you need to make, or a total damage. Let's say lvl * 20 successful hits or lvl*100 total dmg(should work for both range or sword). You get the requirement or you get no exp in the end. Also remove the low hp monsters that die in 1-2 hits and the need of a gate keeper. No more requirements for gear, number of arrows or any moderation at all.

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The problem still remains - high-leveled players will kill low monsters for get the exp, and as long low-leveled players will not be able to fight higher monsters, then higher players will start to kill higher monsters, and give as you said, 90% of all.

 

Well, if Aislinn don't like idea about splitting - what's about make lower mobs capped?

Like:

MCW: 130 cap

Yeti: 140 cap

Trices, ACW, LO, Nasps: 150 cap

Giants: 160 or uncapped

Dragons, MBs: uncapped

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Don't think we need caps since we have inva based on lvl. And i am not sure you understood me: you need to achieve a certain amount of total damage to get the same exp you get now. With a reasonable requirement of 1500-2000 dmg everyone has a change just by ranging mb or dragons.

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Keep it as it is.. with this xp bonus per hit/bock or whatever a lot of drama will arise by people 'fighting' over mobs to tank or hit. It will become a big as drama serp war (yes senz I know u love it)

making 120-140 and 140+ sound nice but will give another problem of huge fighting for invance time etc.

Id love gate bonus though!!

And again if people have problems doing invances due to the armor thing well let them run around in iron or leather or whatever and see

how long they last. Mobs have to be tweeked for lower armor to be used.

And I agree with the previous peeps about removing the exp bonus completely well what will u do them for then? and this fun thing gets a hole lot more fun with nothing to gain from them it will just lead to people going for the mobs that drops a lot of gc and more drama will arise due to fights over them

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I feel like all these new suggestions would just over complicate it for the regular player.

 

In my opinion, if the experience is removed, I won't even consider going to an invance. If people want to have fun without the experience at the end, go to an instance or invasion. Invances offer a different type of reward/outcome than the others and de-complicates matters. Teams in instances and invasions have to find ways to split the rewards. While this works out for some, what about the outcast of the group? Might not be part of a guild/allies, but helps take down one of the boss monsters. I think this would just add more of a headache including this into the whole invance process.

 

If someone contributes as much as they possibly can, then they should get the full experience. If someone doesn't take an invance seriously, they should be banned from it. Yes, people should wear level appropriate gear and yes, people need to actively be participating for the majority of the invance. If anything, I feel that there should be a definitive listing of gear required for each invance for each class (fighter, mage, ranger.) And a realistic expectation of what is expected of each in terms of participation.

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The problem still remains - high-leveled players will kill low monsters for get the exp, and as long low-leveled players will not be able to fight higher monsters, then higher players will start to kill higher monsters, and give as you said, 90% of all.

 

Well, if Aislinn don't like idea about splitting - what's about make lower mobs capped?

Like:

MCW: 130 cap

Yeti: 140 cap

Trices, ACW, LO, Nasps: 150 cap

Giants: 160 or uncapped

Dragons, MBs: uncapped

I was thinking along the same lines.

I try and help lower levels attacking monsters with a few arrows, especially if a dragon or other high level mob is near that can kill them. Such air support wont be possible any more, maybe allow to use spells instead?

This proposal would make it necessary to have teams with players of all levels to be able to win an invance, a nice incentive :)

I think capping mobs is a much better solution than removing xp and/or gear requirement. If lower level players actually have mobs to kill, they will have to work for their xp.

With 40-50 players in an invance the regular mobs are killed in no time, even the second batch, leaving a load of blue dragons, icies and MBs for the same small team of tanks and rangers to kill. With caps, some of the low level mobs might last long enough for these players to contribute other than with ranging till the end.

Maybe the amount of xp should even be inversely proportional to the number of players, not necessarily linearly, or alternatively, the number of mobs of a given type could be made adaptable (but never equal to 0).

All in all pro idea.

 

I did not vote, since I don't like any of the given alternatives, including leaving things as they are.

Edited by Maxine
punctuation.

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