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Skills and Market enhancements at game

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I really think the market at EL is crazy. People are moving to a/d, and develoment of other skills are secondary or for fun.

Up crafting, tailoring, manufacture (especially this!), and other skills isn't a really good thing.

 

Up OA with some hours of training is easy compared with try up OA with any of other skill, and why?

Try make + sell titanium armor to up your man and win some money...

Make SRs (one of the best sold potions at game!) needs time to harvest, time to mixing, and with some a/d hours you can get so much more exp + gold than stopped mixing, and it's more fun too!

 

You can sell FEs easy, but add the time to harvest ings, mix all, sell and see the final gc: 5, 6k.... a 60-80 instance returns more than this. You do this not to sell, but to get some experience.

 

Personally, I think the solution can start with revision of game prices, and the NPCs are the start point to this change.

Not only a/d payers should win so much gc, but players with other ideas too. Maybe the experience to make some items should increase, or the chances to make rare items too, I don't know, but I would like opinions about.

 

I just think we have 12 skills here, not just a/d, and if you want people making potions or armors for you, they need some kind of incentive too...

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I agree with you, for instance...I make PK arrows but they are cheaper to buy from an NPC than it is to make and they consume a lot of food. Some armor I can make, are cheaper sold by NPC than the ingredients needed to make them.

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Most potions are more hastle to make then to just harvest/farm something to buy them (acc/evas/fps etc etc). I personally thing the ingredientes need updated and update the prices on NPCs.

 

Also on another skill that needs updating is summoning. I was recently looking at some formulas and ohmygod, when was the last person to summon a cyclops? Tit serp sword for 1 clops with 200 hp, Armed orc, ti long etc. Wouldnt it be nice to actually summon a creature to level summoning instead of just spamming stones :s i'm pretty sure I mentioned a few times that the summoned creature should give you summoning exp while its in combat, but I guess thats for another topic.

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I saw several conversations about this topic in game (mainly at channel 6, but not just only there!), but if we want see this to work, we need some discussions and registers here. I ask all players who think about this to post a message here with your opinion.

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Yes. we need a poll. I agree. I joined this game because I do not want to play a game with fighting and killing. I am strickly a harvester and mixer, except for the Haidir dialies. In August I reset to redistribute my attributes in a better way. I had to spend the whole month of August fighting creatures 24/7 in order to level back up to my pre-reset OA. This is not how the game was advertised. It is wrong to ignore the other skills.

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Ahh the age old argument. I agree, there are other skills that are horribly ignored and imbalanced, but balancing that stuff doesn't equal instant money, so nothing will happen, like usual. Good luck tho.

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i would find it ok if all weapons rings ... are sold at a price by npc that you could make them from the ings the npc'S are selling.

so far there are very few products that you could make at costs with all the ings a npc sells.

 

For example Tutorial tells people FE can be sold for 4-5gc market tries to make the price higher, so why not introduce an npc that sells FE for 5gc. this would stop people from trying to get so high it would no longer be profitable to mix it, and its a new player thing to mix.

 

Some stuff are at ridiculus prices for example ores and minerals at NPC

.iron ore for 20gc coal for 10gc ea.

 

Iron Bar NPC sells for 50gc ea: if you buy iron ore at npc and harvest all 1 iron bar would be 140gc add coal and you are at 170gc add FE for 5gc ea and you are at 180 thats 3.6 times the price you can get the bar for.

 

Steel bar: same calculateion with iron ore allone from npc 160gc iron and coal 190gc add fe and you are at 205gc

 

Lower the prices of the ings and you would get at iron ore at 5gc and coal at 3gc

iron bar: 35gc for iron ore 9gc for coal 10gc for fe =54gc for iron ore (4gc more then npc price but still ok if you count xp making)

Steel bar: 40gc for iron ore 15gc for coal 15 for FE = 70gc (thats on cost for the bars bought at npc (if you do not count food) and would be the basis for a lot of other things.

 

On the other hand npc buy prices for things are often far to low too. basically on the basic ing level it would be as if the npc would charge 1000%. make it 10%. and people not likeing to use the market have a chance too.

 

for example let iron be bought by npc for 3gc coal for 2 gc sell for 5 and 3 and you will see people selling to npc and people buying from npc to gain their goals, and the market infaltion would stabilize at a point

Edited by vinoveritas

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I would love to see some changes made that could effect the economy and thus have an effect on the other skills in the game. I have thought about it a lot and every time I think of an idea, I also see how it could just make things worse. Obviously, I am sure the game creators have reasons for why they can't just go making certain changes.

 

I agree with Senzon that some (most?) of summoning recipes need modifying because they are too expensive.

 

I also agree with Vino that modifying some NPC's to sell and buy some more select items in the market would hopefully introduce some stability. Obviously I think this is intended by having some items bought and sold by NPCs, but as time has progressed, new items have been added, players have higher levels etc, perhaps this needs to be adjusted again.

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Hydro bar is one of the items where the market price is getting close to the NPC price, so I'd say not much risk of that (except perhaps for those that took 'antisocial').

 

But: might the way NPC prices were set originally be aimed at discouraging trading with NPCs, to favour the players' market whenever possible?

With prices set as Vino proposes, there's no more reason to mix lower items or buy them from other players (mules help here).

Already, health and spirit essences are better bought from NPC, and iron and steel bars are getting there fast as well (as are a number of high level items).

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As long as people will need to make bars fire essences will be needed, even if it's low profit compared to other things you can do. Plus you also get some EFEs and boost your profit a little.

Buying from npc instead of mixing yourself(or buy from another player) makes some parts of the game obsolete, so less gameplay. This is why I prefer, as revi has noted, discouraging trading with NPCs(well, at least as much as possible).

 

Reducing the time to mix(the time that passes between two "you have successfully created...") i think would help a lot, at least for essences. If you can do it faster, than you can do more in the same amount of time, becoming profitable. Having ings for 10k fe you still need a lot of time to mix it. So this will impact only the items that you need to mix tons of. Reducing that time for fe by 50% would probably reduce the total time by 10-20%(when making in bulk). For HE will have a bigger impact and that's good.

 

And maybe a medallion or a perk hard to get, like child of stars, that makes mixing faster is a nice approach.

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NPC ingredient prices are high to avoid a situation where you can buy everything from NPC, mix and sell with minimal effort and no harvesting.

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And maybe a medallion or a perk hard to get, like child of stars, that makes mixing faster is a nice approach.

 

How about batch mixing, i.e. fe since it uses only 1 food, you put in a quanity of 55 roses, 55 red snaps and 55 sulfur. You hit the button mix batch. Mixes all at once, crit fail, means you lose all 55 ingredients. Mixing he, would be only a quanity of 6 at once.

 

Restrictions would be you cannot mix more items than the food needed to mix them. Cool downs still apply, Joule days, would double, 110 fe, 12 he ingredients. Costs stay the same, but mixing is faster. Failure rate could be slightly increased to keep balance in the game. Also you could only give exp for 1 item, to prevent someone from leveling to 179 alc in a weeks time.;)

Edited by Aquila

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And maybe a medallion or a perk hard to get, like child of stars, that makes mixing faster is a nice approach.

 

How about batch mixing, i.e. fe since it uses only 1 food, you put in a quanity of 55 roses, 55 red snaps and 55 sulfur. You hit the button mix batch. Mixes all at once, crit fail, means you lose all 55 ingredients. Mixing he, would be only a quanity of 6 at once.

 

Restrictions would be you cannot mix more items than the food needed to mix them. Cool downs still apply, Joule days, would double, 110 fe, 12 he ingredients. Costs stay the same, but mixing is faster. Failure rate could be slightly increased to keep balance in the game. Also you could only give exp for 1 item, to prevent someone from leveling to 179 alc in a weeks time. ;)

 

Something like this has been proposed: http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=57513

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And maybe a medallion or a perk hard to get, like child of stars, that makes mixing faster is a nice approach.

 

How about batch mixing, i.e. fe since it uses only 1 food, you put in a quanity of 55 roses, 55 red snaps and 55 sulfur. You hit the button mix batch. Mixes all at once, crit fail, means you lose all 55 ingredients. Mixing he, would be only a quanity of 6 at once.

 

Restrictions would be you cannot mix more items than the food needed to mix them. Cool downs still apply, Joule days, would double, 110 fe, 12 he ingredients. Costs stay the same, but mixing is faster. Failure rate could be slightly increased to keep balance in the game. Also you could only give exp for 1 item, to prevent someone from leveling to 179 alc in a weeks time. ;)

 

Something like this has been proposed: http://www.eternal-l...showtopic=57513

 

Not a bad idea, why was it abandon?

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The prices are not the only thing that needs change.

 

Its pretty obvious, that a/d is the best experience out there. For a mixer/miner getting pickpoints is SO MUCH harder, and in my opinion this needs change, too.

 

Increasing exp gained from mixing skills as well as level required to make things would probably help a little.

i.e.
Increase exp gained by 50%. Leather helm
Current exp: 45
Current recommended level: 10
After the change exp: 67
After change recommended level: 12 (exp required from 2881 to 4321, rounding up at 12 level).
I.E.2
Experience gained increased by 50%. Ring of disengagement.
Current exp: 115
Current recommended level: 27
After the change exp: 173
After change recommended level: 29
I.E 3
Experience increase 100%, titanium plate mail.
Current exp: 2800
Current recommended level: 62
After the change exp: 5600
After change recommended level: 72

 

This wouldnt impact the skill itself(if increasing exp for all items of the skill by the same percentage), but would increase OA gain from skills, making them somewhat better for leveling OA.

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Of course such a change will impact the skill: fails are related to your level in the skill, so increasing the recommended level for an item means losses on that item will increase (or you can only start making it that much later). Which means you might actually discourage players to work on mixing skills. And there will be less players able/willing to mix the really high level items (saving stones are rather expensive as well, nowadays).

 

But this thread is about the market, not experience/levelling. To discuss that, a separate thread would be better (the more so as that subject might be more inflammable)

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I also think increasing the recommended level for items will make mixing less profitable. To bring fails for an item to under 1% (way above the recommended level) you will need a lot more than 50% more exp.

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But this thread is about the market, not experience/levelling. To discuss that, a separate thread would be better (the more so as that subject might be more inflammable)

Yes it is. Just coz you discussed the market only, doesnt mean that the thread is about market only.

 

Anyway, i meant to agree with OP that skills need change. Currently a/d is by far the best skill for OA leveling, and i think this needs a change.

Edited by Helklo

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But this thread is about the market, not experience/levelling. To discuss that, a separate thread would be better (the more so as that subject might be more inflammable)

Yes it is. Just coz you discussed the market only, doesnt mean that the thread is about market only.

OK. In that case, why didn't you bother answering the remainder of my post?

 

A/D has always been perceived as the best skill for OA levelling, and the daily quests and invances haven't really changed that.

They did make it more visible and more extreme. One reason OA levels that fast with A/D is that you always train two skills at the same time

(except with some special builds)... And there's nothing like SunTzu or Stakhanov for the mixers (Day of schools give 1.5x the experience,

and schools are expensive, scholars day is limited to 1.3x iirc).

 

Note that I said perceived: I'm not really sure how it works out if you could spent most of your time mixing (keeping in mind that you still can

only work one skill at a time). I've seen players level a mixing skill at an astonishing speed, when they had the ingredients available.

For that to work long term,you need to be sure that you can sell your products at least at cost (i.e. gc coming in from sales must be at least

equal to the value of ingredients + food, including food and ings lost through fails). Not always that evident...

 

With your proposal for mixing, we'd need less items to gain a level (and the more over recommended, the stronger the effect seems to be),

but we need to get to the required level first (and for levelling with an item, you prefer having a level a bit over its recommended, but lets

ignore that for now).

 

In manu, the first item over lvl 9 is fox scarf; exp. 12, lvl 3, so 109 to get the next level, or 9 scarves. exp. needed to reach lvl 3 is 274 or 55 warm gloves @ 5 exp. each.

add 50% exp, so corresponding rec. lvl becomes 5. Total exp. needed to reach this is 536, or 76 warm gloves @ 7 exp. each.

That's 40% more items to reach the minimum level to make the scarves...

 

Now for one of the money makers in manu: S2E:

current: exp. 140, rec. lvl 28, 34138 exp. needed for lvl 29, or 244 swords.

add 50% exp, so we get 210, corresponding rec. lvl would be 33 (244*210=51240) or 5 levels more (and that's generous)...

And making S2E when you are at their recommended level is not recommended.

 

Now, I don't exactly know how the fail% depends on actual level compared to recommended, but one way to do it would make the fall-off slower for higher-level items...

 

So, I'd love to get more experience for mixing, but I'm not sure your method is the answer. Yes, you would get more experience per item,

but you'd need longer before you're able to make that item.

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Your math is wrong. Use simple logic.

If you want to reach 100exp gaining 1exp per item, it will take 100 items,

If your want to reach 150exp gaining 1.5exp per item, it will take 100items.

 

Lets do some math.

 

You want get 10 levels above s2e recommended level. Youre making leather helms.

 

Current s2e recommended level: 28, you want lvl38. Exp needed for lvl38: 701,142.
After the 100% increase recommended level 32-33 (lets take 33 for the sake of the argument), you want lvl43. Exp needed for lv43: 1,116,262.
To reach lv38 of manu making leather helms (45exp each), you need to make 15,580 leather helms.
To reach lv43 of manu making leather helms (90exp each), you need to make 12,403 leather helms.

So you can clearly see that getting higher than recommended level is easier after the change. This isnt true for higher level items though, which will need the same amount of items to reach (higher than) recommended levels.

 

Sure, items will fail more when you are lv0, and before your train yourself up to the first training item.

 

And i understand this wont be implemented, because it would upset high level people, which is bad for business as it is now. Nor am i saying this is the right thing to do. Just trying to give some ideas for the possible change. And the change is VERY MUCH needed.

Edited by Helklo

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Except that I did my math for the 50% increase.

What you are doing is:

let's use the new levels calculated as if exp. increased 50%, and then count the helmets as if experience increased 100%.

 

And then you say my math is wrong...

 

My point was: you don't start with a level 20 item when you are level 0, and passing that first hump becomes slower with your change.

 

And you seem to want to play on the man. I don't, so good luck with this discussion

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Except that I did my math for the 50% increase.

What you are doing is:

let's use the new levels calculated as if exp. increased 50%, and then count the helmets as if experience increased 100%.

 

And then you say my math is wrong...

 

My point was: you don't start with a level 20 item when you are level 0, and passing that first hump becomes slower with your change.

 

And you seem to want to play on the man. I don't, so good luck with this discussion

No im not. Everything in my math is 100%, just coz youre bad at math doesnt mean others are as well. If you do the math yourself, you can clearly see that.

 

Just for you:

Exp needed for lv28 : 170,691

Exp needed for lv28+10 : 701,142

Exp needed for lv33 : 364,153

Exp needed for lv33+10 : 1,116,262

just in case, 28+10 = 38 and 33+10 = 43.

 

p.s. IDK about you, but i started mixing leather gloves at lv0 (+manu pots) and moved to helms a bit later on. The most sensible thing to do. Even if you DO want to start with lv1 items, you wont get affected much. Especially seeing that you can get better OA exp after the change, which is the whole point.

Edited by Helklo

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