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Elf_Ninja

Thelinor PvP Betting Tavern

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[Grats on your 200 posts bro... This is something I think that would be better as an organized event... I will be bringing back fight club once my guild map is put ingame... We will have events in areas where people can come and watch and it will be in a controlled way where people can put down some bets... As for a place for it, it would have to be controlled in such a way that a mod would have to be present to keep control of the fights

 

I'm not quite sure why a mod would be needed if this is set up as the same style as the instance npc is set now.... Only thing would be if a player tried to give an alt wealth by killing it in tavern, but if that's the case it's announced on @6 and i think they would notice something like that taking place.

 

Basic overview if this is simpler to understand: NPC runs an instance style pvp tavern where players are required to purchase a ticket and carry a droppable platinum coin in. Players battle winner takes all. Anyone can play any time zone. no mod needed once system is set up unless someone finds a say to scam it but now sure how that would happen.

 

Another note if enough people like this idea perhaps an old school bribing could be set up like say to make this happen Mortos has hired radu to make it and he would like 10000 platinum coins from players in EL, because you know Mortos likes it when people die and stuff so he paying someone to make it happen more often.

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[Grats on your 200 posts bro... This is something I think that would be better as an organized event... I will be bringing back fight club once my guild map is put ingame... We will have events in areas where people can come and watch and it will be in a controlled way where people can put down some bets... As for a place for it, it would have to be controlled in such a way that a mod would have to be present to keep control of the fights

 

I'm not quite sure why a mod would be needed if this is set up as the same style as the instance npc is set now.... Only thing would be if a player tried to give an alt wealth by killing it in tavern, but if that's the case it's announced on @6 and i think they would notice something like that taking place.

 

Basic overview if this is simpler to understand: NPC runs an instance style pvp tavern where players are required to purchase a ticket and carry a droppable platinum coin in. Players battle winner takes all. Anyone can play any time zone. no mod needed once system is set up unless someone finds a say to scam it but now sure how that would happen.

 

Actually I realized a lil while after I posted that there would be an easy way to do it...

 

Make a 1x2 arena lifted above the ground about table high and all the squares around non usabe (map code), then make it so you can pay the NPC bar tender, much like you would to get into an invance, to send you to the PK platform. Once there someone els can join you by also paying to get in. Have the NPC monitor the server info for witch of the 2 people die first and that person is the looser. Then the winner gets teled to the the NPC much as you would after an instance is over where they can collect the winnings of the fight

 

Key points you have to do to keep it from being scamable...

 

Make all the tiles around the fighting platform non usable so people can't set off bombs to kill the people fighting.

 

Turn off all magic outside of the platform so people can't tele or heal into the fight.

 

Turn summoning off as well for the platform and the surrounding area so people can't get help with mding then

 

Make it no drop but also make it so you don't get ANY xp in the arena (no magic, summoning, mixing, fighting, ect. ect) so people can't use it for training in any way

 

And make it so if no one joins the arena after 5 mins then you are teled back to the non to gather your gc...

Edited by Orick

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I agree with preventing outside help in the manner of bombing or healing fighters... but preventing fighters from summoning gets rid of a tactic in PK, which is something you ultimately do not want to do. No experiance also. But make the map relatively big, so people can range, and you can have multiple persons brawling against each other. Just keep entire tavern PK, but make a copy of the map - much like we use a copy of iscalrith for invance - that doesn't give exp in any skill and is undroppable for the fight. When done, teleport back to bar handler, like you suggested. lets keep to elf_ninja's plan, because that seems to be the most thought through and most difficult for outside help and scamming to occur

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Orick - that prevents summoners & rangers, and mages probably want to stay a bit away.

 

Thel tavern is just big enough for this to work, but small enough to keep action going.

Think of the thelinor tavern PK instance map in the same way as you would of a multiplayer First Person Shooter map - keep it small enough so theres always action, but big enough for tactics.

 

Summoning/range/magic should have exp given, since their fairly expensive for the good 'uns. Just make it have cut off exp maybe? so if people do want to use it for training, it works out as a money sink, benifitting economy (more gc out of game to balance the amount coming in)

Edited by JoeButler

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I agree with preventing outside help in the manner of bombing or healing fighters... but preventing fighters from summoning gets rid of a tactic in PK, which is something you ultimately do not want to do. No experiance also. But make the map relatively big, so people can range, and you can have multiple persons brawling against each other. Just keep entire tavern PK, but make a copy of the map - much like we use a copy of iscalrith for invance - that doesn't give exp in any skill and is undroppable for the fight. When done, teleport back to bar handler, like you suggested. lets keep to elf_ninja's plan, because that seems to be the most thought through and most difficult for outside help and scamming to occur

 

This sounds like normal PK not a betting fight... I'm back to this not working right or used

 

There is no reason to add summoning to a normal bet fight... If you want things like supper summoning and ranging and bombing make it an event

 

Orick - that prevents summoners & rangers, and mages probably want to stay a bit away.

 

Thel tavern is just big enough for this to work, but small enough to keep action going.

Think of the thelinor tavern PK instance map in the same way as you would of a multiplayer First Person Shooter map - keep it small enough so theres always action, but big enough for tactics.

 

Summoning/range/magic should have exp given, since their fairly expensive for the good 'uns. Just make it have cut off exp maybe? so if people do want to use it for training, it works out as a money sink, benifitting economy (more gc out of game to balance the amount coming in)

 

There is no reason at all for getting any xp during this... It just allows people more reasons to exploit the fights

Edited by Orick

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This sounds like normal PK not a betting fight... I'm back to this not working right or used

 

There is no reason to add summoning to a normal bet fight... If you want things like supper summoning and ranging and bombing make it an event

 

Ok i think I stated in the initial post that there could be various instances of pvp tavern to choose from I'll expand on that idea here:

Anything goes: summon, magic, ranging, a/d

Fighting only: magic and a/d

Old school: lower lvl armor only

Fistycuffs: No armor no weapons

No Cooldown: umm no cooldown

1 v 1 map

2 - 6 map

2 - 20 map?

3 v 3 guild battles

 

Could even do crazy things like:

Chim spawn: during the pk fight chims can spawn and attack everyone but drop nothing

Boss Battle: NPC Boss in tavern players can attack, if they die to him he gets all the platinum, if someone kills him they get the platinum of others he's killed during that specific instance ( i don't think it would be cumulative over all time) Boss could be lvl based like instance regular instance lvls

Apocalypse battle: Radiation damage during battle, maybe spawn mutant rats too xD

Horse battles: all players must be on a horse to participate :D

 

The possibilities are only limited by what can be done with the engine and our imaginations. I do agree i saw somewhere above if Tele to portals and international portals can be turned off along with tele rings would be a good idea, not sure if that's doable maybe on the tele rings they just can't have one in inventory to enter.

 

There is no reason at all for getting any xp during this... It just allows people more reasons to exploit the fights

Not sure on this one, how exactly do you expect people to exploit the fights with this? like doing multi opponent tank training or something? If that's the case the perhaps set a timer on the fights like in instance 5, 10, or 15 min something like that. Because honestly people can go get xp by pvping on another map why should they not here, I really would like to know a solid reason for there not to be xp included as you would already be paying a premium to battle here in theory for prestige and fun. Taking xp away imo makes it less fun as you would still be getting a slight bit of xp not even a great amount compared to other things in-game you could be doing.

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This sounds like normal PK not a betting fight... I'm back to this not working right or used

 

There is no reason to add summoning to a normal bet fight... If you want things like supper summoning and ranging and bombing make it an event

 

Ok i think I stated in the initial post that there could be various instances of pvp tavern to choose from I'll expand on that idea here:

Anything goes: summon, magic, ranging, a/d

Fighting only: magic and a/d

Old school: lower lvl armor only

Fistycuffs: No armor no weapons

No Cooldown: umm no cooldown

1 v 1 map

2 - 6 map

2 - 20 map?

3 v 3 guild battles

 

Could even do crazy things like:

Chim spawn: during the pk fight chims can spawn and attack everyone but drop nothing

Boss Battle: NPC Boss in tavern players can attack, if they die to him he gets all the platinum, if someone kills him they get the platinum of others he's killed during that specific instance ( i don't think it would be cumulative over all time) Boss could be lvl based like instance regular instance lvls

Apocalypse battle: Radiation damage during battle, maybe spawn mutant rats too xD

Horse battles: all players must be on a horse to participate :D

 

The possibilities are only limited by what can be done with the engine and our imaginations. I do agree i saw somewhere above if Tele to portals and international portals can be turned off along with tele rings would be a good idea, not sure if that's doable maybe on the tele rings they just can't have one in inventory to enter.

 

There is no reason at all for getting any xp during this... It just allows people more reasons to exploit the fights

Not sure on this one, how exactly do you expect people to exploit the fights with this? like doing multi opponent tank training or something? If that's the case the perhaps set a timer on the fights like in instance 5, 10, or 15 min something like that. Because honestly people can go get xp by pvping on another map why should they not here, I really would like to know a solid reason for there not to be xp included as you would already be paying a premium to battle here in theory for prestige and fun. Taking xp away imo makes it less fun as you would still be getting a slight bit of xp not even a great amount compared to other things in-game you could be doing.

 

Rather then changing the tavern to fit your new PK criteria just set the NPC to use TD... It has all those options already...

 

And my no xp idea was only if it was no drop 1x2 arena.. If you want a big arena that anyone can enter at any time the no drop and no xp are not needed...

 

Still if you want multaple styles of fights then make an event, those fights are doable now...

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Here's an idea...

 

Rather then make it a NPC just program a bot to use chan 6... Then you can use any map you want to and if someone comes in and takes your kill then you can just do another fight... Maybe make it so the bot owner keeps 5% of the gc bet and set the min bet at 500 gc... This way you can use no drop maps that are already here in the game or even total war if you wanted to

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I think the idea, is for an NPC, not an event, as to promote both PK and to provide more gc going out of game, and to give plats a use.

 

So:

NPC, sends you to copy of thel with TD rules & Non drop

To enter you bet, say 5 plats to npc, and haidir pass(or some other shop item)

5 people enter, Last man standing gets 80% of bets, aka 20 Plats.

Therefore, the idea utilises the idea of sending you to a map copy (Like Invance code), a betting NPC (like the Lottery NPC) and rules from maps.

 

Saying total war...wasnt that disabled iirc?

 

This idea would freshen up PK if it was installed as part of the game, provide radu with $$$$, be a gc sink and its basically taking parts of the game that already exist.

 

If this was event, it would not be money sink, not provide radu with any significant $$$$, and we'd be back to the odd and occasional KF/DPA fight and newhope killing hydroers.

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Summoning/range/magic should have exp given, since their fairly expensive for the good 'uns. Just make it have cut off exp maybe? so if people do want to use it for training, it works out as a money sink, benifitting economy (more gc out of game to balance the amount coming in)

 

No exp. simplest. keep it simple, which makes it more likely implemented. main problem, your trying to overcomplicate, and oricks trying to ditch the idea, saying you could do a botched and bad job version of it with bot. again, i plead you look at the original and built on suggestions, instead of throwing them out. Elf has thought it through well imo

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K, going to the original idea, that is a lot of work to do those but yes that would be a fun addition to the game... The only thing I would add is make it no xp inside the maps...

 

It WILL stop abuse from trainers who want privacy... It WON'T stop armor breaking quester tho but not sure how to do that one, maybe put a 20 min limit on the fights

Edited by Orick

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So....no xp in an arena......makes it all a macho pk thing with no bonus else than ego and platinum coins. Eh. Sounds like that would only cater to a few folk's desires and I know I would not be interested in it at that point. With xp, I would be interested, but not without xp.

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K, going to the original idea, that is a lot of work to do those but yes that would be a fun addition to the game... The only thing I would add is make it no xp inside the maps...

 

It WILL stop abuse from trainers who want privacy... It WON'T stop armor breaking quester tho but not sure how to do that one, maybe put a 20 min limit on the fights

 

Hard to do...but how much harder than instances? And i now see point of no exp inside maps, and like idea of 20 min limit, as thats just shorter than KF clash, and makes sense.

 

nathanstenzel - before it would be implemented, a poll should be done, as obviously at the moment we're working on the concept. This would certainly look attractive to PKers and some who are afraid to enter KF/DPA for fear of unfairness. Only thing im worried about is if someone will try and ruin it by, i dont know, entering and brodding everybody, sabotages games, etc.

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You don't get very much exp apart from spells in PK, or from what little of PK i've done. Ranging exp isn't worth shouting about (PKAs aren't good for exp), and the att/defense experiance stops being given very early in the fight. So not entirely following you nathan.

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So....no xp in an arena......makes it all a macho pk thing with no bonus else than ego and platinum coins. Eh. Sounds like that would only cater to a few folk's desires and I know I would not be interested in it at that point. With xp, I would be interested, but not without xp.

 

The way you say this makes me think that your interest it using it for training... Witch is not its intention... Radu does not like when people use aspects of the game in ways that they were not intended, and for good reason. Anyway, doing it right would take more then you think, it's not just cut and past (to my understanding) with map making and then the programing... But I have not done much with this, it might turn out to be easyer then I'm thinking it will be

Edited by Orick

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So....no xp in an arena......makes it all a macho pk thing with no bonus else than ego and platinum coins. Eh. Sounds like that would only cater to a few folk's desires and I know I would not be interested in it at that point. With xp, I would be interested, but not without xp.

 

The way you say this makes me think that your interest it using it for training... Witch is not its intention... Radu does not like when people use aspects of the game in ways that they were not intended, and for good reason. Anyway, doing it right would take more then you think, it's not just cut and past (to my understanding) with map making and then the programing... But I have not done much with this, it might turn out to be easyer then I'm thinking it will be

Yes, I was interested in using it for training and for betting. "The ways that they were not intended" you say? An arena where you bet on your ability to fight has the requirement of you betting. One thing that I notice Radu does not like is combat between players or combat between a player and a monster without risk. Betting a platinum coin is a risk. Breakage is a risk. Additional gc for entering would be a cost which would be harder to implement, but would certainly cover the costs of fun which Radu seems to like.

 

I must admit that I have not designed maps myself, although I have looked at the editor a few times. Most of my knowledge is from reading way too many posts on EL forums since 2006. For reference, 1,546 posts and that is only how many posts I have made as opposed to how much I have actually read. I was once interested in making a custom map for my guild, but frankly a person would have to love wasting money or ask for donation in order to pay the massive fees for implementing a guild map and occasional adjustments. I have only made maps for other RPG's (which was easy in them).

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The point of this idea was to encourage PKers to PK in a way where they can win something if they are successful, while also not risking something enormous. PvP Training is not part of that, which is why xp could be removed to prevent abuse.

 

a 2-8 person map where armed people can have wars with the only risk being a coupla plats, that's nice. That would be a way to encourage people to try PK.

 

And for this to work in any way that wouldn't end up being dodgy and bad, it would need to be an official feature, an NPC run instance, not a bot service, which wouldn't work :D

 

Let's keep it simple initially: a Room where 2-8 people, in same channel, can enter and attempt to kill the others for a prize of a 1-5 plats, last man standing style. ofc people could tele out after killing one, but then they're not going to be able to kill further numbers and collect even more plats (risk vs reward: stay in to maximise plats vs dying and losing all your pretty coins). TO decrease the maount of programming, use an existing map (theli tavern), because if there is already a file of that map, it will still be easier than having to write a completely new one. And make that map non-drops, bar the plats. Simple.

 

Thelinor taverns itself should remain the same, maybe make NPc a little bit away from the tavern so we don't get MM Battle Hall style lures in Thelinor :D

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Congrats to all of you who said this should be no xp and strictly for pk. You have asked to hear "I have not gotten any better at combat in the last year because I spent all of my time in a no xp arena".

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As I've said previously, the a/d exp you make in PK is neglible, because the number of rounds you get experiance for ends really early in the fight. If you want exp, there's still haidir/darithia/training. This idea is unlikely to be implemented if you allow people to occupy the map:

  1. preventing people who actually want to PK in there and use it for the intention of PKing
  2. to get safe place to PvP train with a friend, with no risk apart from a plat coin you'll never drop, because you'll tele out when your finished your PvP training.

no exp makes sense.

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What if when the time is up if you haven't finished each other off your teled out and loose the platinum coin would that be more risk and be able to keep the xp? I understand a few don't like the idea of being able to have XP in here but i really think it won't be as used if this is the case, people would just go to KF or something like they already do as they do get xp there and less risk then as they won't loose a coin or just not go at all as it's just a more difficult type of pk/pvp. obviously things like a ranking system and various types of combat possibilities make the idea still viable but if your trying to draw a bigger crowd to pk/pvp limiting xp won't help i don't think. But i guess ultimately Radu would have to decide on if it can be abused in such a way that requires it to not have xp, if so i would still use it if it was put in-game just possibly not as often.

 

Also if a time limit is instituted on the system it would be nice to have some kind of countdown clock on the Hud so you could keep track of how long is left to kill peoples, just random idea :D

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Not really, the reason there are 2 of each instance maps is so people can't lock the instance maps and not allow others to enter and play... Even if you make 2 of each tavern and people try to use it as a training area that stops the PKers from being able to use the betting arena for fights... No xp is the only way to control this, making it so you lose your coin only puts a cost into renting the arena... If you want a secure training arena then that should be a whole new idea on its own

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Not really, the reason there are 2 of each instance maps is so people can't lock the instance maps and not allow others to enter and play... Even if you make 2 of each tavern and people try to use it as a training area that stops the PKers from being able to use the betting arena for fights... No xp is the only way to control this, making it so you lose your coin only puts a cost into renting the arena... If you want a secure training arena then that should be a whole new idea on its own

That ^^^

 

Make it like instance,but only thing that drops are plats, keep breakages, no exp.

 

Easy as that, and just have maybe 2-4 copies of thelinor tavern, and allow tiers, like <60, 60-90, 90-120, 120+, and uncapped. This would promote use, as some of the reason why lower levels dont pk is because of all the 160s who kill them only. And if its not used as much as expected, you still have the uncapped option to allow full game use.

 

And just idea, what about for every plat you have, when you die, you only drop 1, so like rostogols in instances, you respawn and can continue. means you can have longer fights and even more of a jackpot.

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