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Maxine

Make pear finders work like treasure finders

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The title kinda says it all:

  • Pear finders only give a message if you are close enough
  • They dont disappear if there is no pear ingame anymore
  • The message is "This days pear has been found" without mentioning name.

Thanks to Frost for the idea.

Edited by Maxine
fixed typo

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good idea

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Bad idea.

 

1) Takes away the only difference between it and a treasure hunt. We have enough exactly-the-same things in the game already.

 

2) Unlike a treasure bag which can be on any walkable spot, this would tell you it's in a nearby harvable. You wouldn't even have to be "hot", once you get remotely close there's only going to be a small amount of harvs it could be in. The "getting warmer" style used for finding treasure won't work with this.

 

3) As well, you're gonna extremely hike the pear price this way, a price which is already off-putting for many who may buy. Pear finders cost >>>>>>>>>>> treasure finder cost. I guarantee instantly hiking it to 300kgc if the current method is changed, working from that price up or down depending on the cost of finding it.

 

 

(I've been slowly trying to bring the price down. 7k less than it was last month already, and people who don't hunt or even use them keep trying to come up with ways to push it not only up, but excruciatingly painfully priced. And that is exactly what the end result of this would be. Suggestions are supposed to improve, not completely debilitate things.)

 

 

State your PERSONAL recent pear hunting experience that explains why you have the knowledge needed to know this change is necessary. Why you think pears should be so extremely priced. And why you want everything in the game to be exactly the same instead of having a variety so different people with different styles of play all have options.

 

I've provided actual logic and reasoning behind my "nay". Provide yours.

Edited by Burn

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Although:

 

The message is "This day's pear has been found" without mentioning name.

 

That one part I can agree with, since it was my idea. (fixed the missing apostrophe)

Edited by Burn

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are you trying to claim Maxine has never had a go at pearhunting, and that therefore she has no reason to suggest anything concerning it?

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No, I said to STATE that experience, and in particular why it is relevant to this suggestion, as not a single person has provided any valid rhyme or reason as to why it needs to be changed at all. (Other than the ones that have just been too lazy to try at all, which obviously is not the thing here as this won't change that.)

 

Suggestions need to be based on actual experience, just as I don't make random suggestions to changing, oh, the Blue Dragon stats, as I have no experience with it to base it on.

 

If someone were trying to ruin a part of a game you considered fun, you'd expect some kind of reasoning as well.

 

I'm aware of her very early attempts, but not of anything current that would explain a sudden need to bring up this suggestion.

 

 

 

 

Also to state why there's a need to drastically hike the price of the pear when it already has a limited audience that certainly won't buy it at the prices this would cause. Essentially making them useless.

 

Also why the need of taking away one of the few things that actually relies on map knowledge in the game, hunting through all the various harvestables on a map, by using a treasure-find style instead that puts a complete end to that, it may as well be in a hyperbag like a treasure. The two things don't mix. If you want a treasure-finder style hunt, hunt the treasures.

Edited by Burn

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It would be vastly better if anyone respected the right of even the most clueless player to make suggestions freely (as usual, provided they are not repeat, "search before you post", etc.). This sub-forum is for brainstorming, and good ideas can only emerge if any idea can be stated freely.

 

Suggestions are evaluated by developer(s), and the vast majority (good and bad) are rejected anyway. There is no need of preventive censorship.

So, Burn, feel free to post your dissenting opinion, but there is no reason to imply that Maxine is not entitled to post hers. The same goes for everyone else, of course -- just keep in mind the forum rules.

 

Thanks.

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I never said she wasn't entitled, that's Dilly's unfounded random-derail-attempt-post implication and nothing more.

 

I asked for the *reasoning* behind it, and the response to what this would actually do. Nobody seems to be able to provide that.

 

Which, actually, I'm helping *them* by getting them to post this. Nothing gets changed without valid reasoning.

Edited by Burn

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Let Pear finders work like they do now.

Let the Pear spawn at random time over the first 5 hours of the day.

Give a blue message, like when Treasure come in game.

This way can people not go afk and only return to the game at the time a new day starts.

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This way can people not go afk and only return to the game at the time a new day starts.

 

Okay, I know I don't do this, I have too much leveling to work on. Does mala? Stivy? Or who? You?

 

Basically, the question is: is this an attempt to solve a problem that doesn't actually exist?

 

 

 

 

And If it actually is happening, does it really matter? If that's all they want to do, that's all they want to do, that would be their gameplay choice. I used to know people who'd afk until Lenny came out to hunt him, we never did anything about that. Harvers who'd grab harv points, then afk until the next hour. Their choice, their manner of gameplay.

 

 

I'm not as caring about this... I just don't see the reason to waste radu's time with it as this "problem" doesn't seem to be an actual problem. Pears sell to a limited extent, but they're nothing to solely live off of in this manner. I've found 133 of them and still keep finding myself broke... and that's with a hydro income as well. If someone actually is doing this "afk until new day" thing, good luck to them, it's a waste. (The only other person who could attempt to live off of this is mala, and even now I'm seeing him coming to storage in training gear, not afk.)

 

If he's going to change something, you need to state the actual reasoning and proof that it's needed. This doesn't seem to have any reason to it.

Edited by Burn

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This way can people not go afk and only return to the game at the time a new day starts.

 

Okay, I know I don't do this, I have too much leveling to work on. Does mala? Stivy? Or who? You?

 

Basically, the question is: is this an attempt to solve a problem that doesn't actually exist?

 

And If it actually is happening, does it really matter? If that's all they want to do, that's all they want to do, that would be their gameplay choice. I used to know people who'd afk until Lenny came out to hunt him, we never did anything about that. Harvers who'd grab harv points, then afk until the next hour. Their choice, their manner of gameplay.

 

 

Don¨t know if it happen and , no I dont, I never looked for Pears.

But I could just sit afk with rings and tele ess and wait for the new day.

 

Random is random, not same time every new day.

It would make it more challenging and wouth for me to try.

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Yeah, reasoning!

 

I'm against, doesn't seem it would change anything. However, should it be done:

 

1- latest 4:00, not 5:00. 2 hours is enough for fully checking all maps except 3 (WS, Ida, and AA Lothalith fortress) and those are a crapshoot if they're found even with 6 hours.

 

2- Anything that causes less pears to found, considering there's already a max of 4 per day and less when they go into unreachable places (as I type this the pear is in Portland, and not reachable) - will cause the price to skyrocket back up more than the 70k it started out at. 70k was a pain threshold for the price, and I've even been trying to bring it down. *If* it were implemented and this was the result, it would have to be reverted back.

 

Basically, no change can be made that will result in the price to going up without ruining the pear's value completely. And in the end, that's the primary consideration. (which is why I say 4 instead of 5:00, as 5 would definitely result in that happening.)

Edited by Burn

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The reason for my suggestion was simple; the pear is a unique depletable resource that is being monopolised by a few people. Lenny, Joker, Neno and the Badaran all respawn giving other people a chance at their unique (and in the case of Joker rather cheap) reward. I was looking for a way to allow more people to participate in the hunt.

 

This change would require people to walk to strategic locations on the map, rather than take one step inside the map and have the whole map metered. I believe this would slow the process down and allow more people to get involved.

 

The pricehike argument is a valid one that can easily be solved by making pear finders not poof at every use, but have an average of N uses (5 or more?). This can be balanced with the range of effect.

 

I also like the idea of more random spawn times, but then disappear and respawn 6 hours after initial spawning and not at new #day. Maybe the respawn time (after being found) could be such that average time between pears stays the same (or even a bit shorter) but it gets replenished quicker when found fast. This change would give people an incentive to always carry a few pear finders with them ;)

 

It would also be nice if there could somehow be a check included that the pear is not only in a harvestable item, but also that there is a walkable tile close enough to the harvestable so that it can actually be reached.

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I prefer my solution to this "problem".

 

Since Stivy has proven there's no actual monopoly, just noone else trying and that when they do they can change things, the players themselves can actually "break the monopoly" by trying instead.

 

http://life-is-etern...-find-pear.html I wrote the solution to this not-actual-problem two months ago. When I did see other hunters back then, they got PM tips from me on how to improve when they asked, attempting to encourage them to continue trying. (Though I stopped doing that after someone tried shoving it down my throat they used my own advice "against me".)

 

 

All I see here are people making attempts to punish others *for being good at something*, for actually having taken the non-leveling time to learn maps (which should be encouraged), put to use things in-game that don't get often used (speed hax), giving those with high inorganic levels and harvest levels an actual benefit.

 

Normally things are changed because they're bugged, not because a select group of people took the time to actually be skilled in doing them.

 

 

I fail to see this as anything other than an attempt to punish a few people who honed a skill just because others won't take the time to learn it. That's not a valid reason for change. There's no bug, just noone willing to take the time we did to learn (to "level" the skill), noone willing to go through the "heavy fail rate" just as I or stivy did to improve and fail less.

 

Yes, that part is incredibly difficult. I know, I did it. But it's a rare item, there should be an amount of difficulty in it.

 

And that's why I'm against it. I worked hard to hone this skill, and I've tired of people who refuse to put that same effort in trying to put that effort to waste. As absolutely nothing is done that can't be done by anyone else in the game just by putting some actual effort into it, there is no problem to solve here. Those who want to be part of the hunt can hone their hunt skills just like we did.

 

The supposed monopoly only exists because noone else tries. Not because the supposed monopolists are using dirty Microsoft/Apple-like tactics. That's impossible. The only thing stopping any player from "getting in on the action" is their own willingness to put in the time and effort like the rest of us, including the fail time. And yes, that fail time can be costly in both time and gc. I know, I paid it, and earned my ability to hunt.

 

I could have just given up after weeks of failed hunting attempts, losing both gc and time, which seems to be the current course of most people if they try at all, but instead I chose to press on, keep "training", and earn my status as a pear hunter.

 

And btw, changing it to a treasure hunter style (yay, more exactly-the-same stuff in-game) won't change the supposed monopoly. Even treasure hunts have only a small base of people that hunt them. Those not willing to put in the effort will find reason to complain about that method as well.

 

 

 

ADD: Another perspective, those that actually buy/use the pears. I have a few regular buyers, all of which have been happy with the way I've handled the pears cost-wise. Because I don't use my bot to artificially inflate costs, just an extension for selling, I can keep a constant price for pears up. In the past month alone I've pushed the price down by 7kgc, and plan to continue dropping it within reason.

 

I'm not ****** (a certain person still trying to artificially inflate grape costs with his bot), but someone who's more interested in keeping items useful than my own greed.

 

The hunts are fun, and that's the primary reason I do them. And as a part of the "community", I've worked to intentionally bring the price of them down, especially after the grape price shock-hike that occured recently (which had a direct effect on pear sales since the only pear use requires grapes).

 

Extra gc from sales has also benefited the community. 2 Nobel day stones bought and used, and 2 more already bought for later use (yes, greedy on my part in that I need that day, but it benefits everyone). A Bad Day stone bought and used to remove Murphy a week back... 1 hour before I went to bed, when I was only mixing AEs so don't fail much anyway. I had no use for removing that.

 

I may have earned my position as a hunter, but unlike someone who'd try and keep the price artificially hiked, I know that would hurt their value and worked on lowering it. And giving back to the community by buying Bad Day stones for their benefit... though I'm feeling much less inclined to do that part after this attack on my skills.

 

 

But greed is not the driving factor for me. The fun of the hunt is, and yes I'll continue to vehemently oppose anyone who tries to ruin my hard-earned skill in hunting just because they won't put in the same effort, and what is my only occasional distraction from the "daily grind".

Edited by Burn

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I prefer my solution to this "problem".

 

Since Stivy has proven there's no actual monopoly, just noone else trying and that when they do they can change things, the players themselves can actually "break the monopoly" by trying instead.

 

http://life-is-etern...-find-pear.html I wrote the solution to this not-actual-problem two months ago. When I did see other hunters back then, they got PM tips from me on how to improve when they asked, attempting to encourage them to continue trying. (Though I stopped doing that after someone tried shoving it down my throat they used my own advice "against me".)

 

 

All I see here are people making attempts to punish others *for being good at something*, for actually having taken the non-leveling time to learn maps (which should be encouraged), put to use things in-game that don't get often used (speed hax), giving those with high inorganic levels and harvest levels an actual benefit.

 

Normally things are changed because they're bugged, not because a select group of people took the time to actually be skilled in doing them.

 

 

I fail to see this as anything other than an attempt to punish a few people who honed a skill just because others won't take the time to learn it. That's not a valid reason for change. There's no bug, just noone willing to take the time we did to learn (to "level" the skill), noone willing to go through the "heavy fail rate" just as I or stivy did to improve and fail less.

 

Yes, that part is incredibly difficult. I know, I did it. But it's a rare item, there should be an amount of difficulty in it.

 

And that's why I'm against it. I worked hard to hone this skill, and I've tired of people who refuse to put that same effort in trying to put that effort to waste. As absolutely nothing is done that can't be done by anyone else in the game just by putting some actual effort into it, there is no problem to solve here. Those who want to be part of the hunt can hone their hunt skills just like we did.

 

The supposed monopoly only exists because noone else tries. Not because the supposed monopolists are using dirty Microsoft/Apple-like tactics. That's impossible. The only thing stopping any player from "getting in on the action" is their own willingness to put in the time and effort like the rest of us, including the fail time. And yes, that fail time can be costly in both time and gc. I know, I paid it, and earned my ability to hunt.

 

I could have just given up after weeks of failed hunting attempts, losing both gc and time, which seems to be the current course of most people if they try at all, but instead I chose to press on, keep "training", and earn my status as a pear hunter.

 

And btw, changing it to a treasure hunter style (yay, more exactly-the-same stuff in-game) won't change the supposed monopoly. Even treasure hunts have only a small base of people that hunt them. Those not willing to put in the effort will find reason to complain about that method as well.

 

 

 

ADD: Another perspective, those that actually buy/use the pears. I have a few regular buyers, all of which have been happy with the way I've handled the pears cost-wise. Because I don't use my bot to artificially inflate costs, just an extension for selling, I can keep a constant price for pears up. In the past month alone I've pushed the price down by 7kgc, and plan to continue dropping it within reason.

 

I'm not ****** (a certain person still trying to artificially inflate grape costs with his bot), but someone who's more interested in keeping items useful than my own greed.

 

The hunts are fun, and that's the primary reason I do them. And as a part of the "community", I've worked to intentionally bring the price of them down, especially after the grape price shock-hike that occured recently (which had a direct effect on pear sales since the only pear use requires grapes).

 

Extra gc from sales has also benefited the community. 2 Nobel day stones bought and used, and 2 more already bought for later use (yes, greedy on my part in that I need that day, but it benefits everyone). A Bad Day stone bought and used to remove Murphy a week back... 1 hour before I went to bed, when I was only mixing AEs so don't fail much anyway. I had no use for removing that.

 

I may have earned my position as a hunter, but unlike someone who'd try and keep the price artificially hiked, I know that would hurt their value and worked on lowering it. And giving back to the community by buying Bad Day stones for their benefit... though I'm feeling much less inclined to do that part after this attack on my skills.

 

 

But greed is not the driving factor for me. The fun of the hunt is, and yes I'll continue to vehemently oppose anyone who tries to ruin my hard-earned skill in hunting just because they won't put in the same effort, and what is my only occasional distraction from the "daily grind".

 

 

WTF.

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add cooldown on the pears. you can find one every XXX hours so that people have time to try and hone their hunting skills.

 

Pear finders working like treasure finders would help on big maps like WS.

Edited by Nova

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