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New invance rules discussion

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Hi, everyone knows I am rubbish and never gain anything except experience from invances. I lose rostos alot (I should count as a Radu pet really!).

I give any gc I do manage to collect to rangers. If I see another player in trouble with a monster I still wade in. Thats what I call teamwork.. Try to help everyone. Keep the monsters out and HAVE FUN!

 

Stop stressing about players with low human who CANNOT wear better stuff. What they have in their store is their business. They may be rich in stoof other than armour.

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The use of training arrows!

I use training arrows in invances, coze i believe the reason that rule was set up doesn't apply to me :lipssealed: .

I rang in invances coze its great fun i dont stand on the wall i prefer to be in the middle of all the action.

I use pk arrows when its needed so most on giants. but killing drags esp. blue ones i prefer training arr,

My ranging skill is on that level that i can do enough damage with trainers.

 

My point is just re think the rule about the arrows use coze its not fair.

And i just dont want to spend my precious pk'ers on stuff that i never had or got any loot from.

With trainers i get the exp. that normaly get in the arena so in that way, its ok for me that i dont get any loot.

 

And if the use of trainers will be a problem then i just stop ranging and just stay with my ok meele skill.

Be semi'afk when only the drags are left just like the other fighters who can't tank the big mobs.

The only point/reason to even consider trainers to be allowed, is the Blue Dragon. It has 100 point defense on it = nullifying much damage of the 1st 100 shots.

So I could understand IF it would be allowed for that SINGLE purpose to save some gc, since it is killed that way on its home map. Still it's hard to see/judge if this would lead to abuse by players.

 

Just my 2 cents

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As someone who can do only a few of the monsters in 120+ in melee I range most of the invances I'm in. At the beginning MB's were announced on channel and rangers would come and help but because so many would show up to help, and the divided drops became smaller, I've noticed recently you have to stumble on to a group killing one unless it encroaches on the gate. Not a huge deal but as a ranger I try to go and help all I can on monsters Giant lvl + with pk arrows so if I don't get at least one MB in I loose a lot. I have found certain tanks that will share dragon drops if I stick around and help them (but only once a blue dragon drop) around the map which is nice but generally I loose 1/2 the gc I put into an invance sometimes more if there are more tanks then rangers and I end up ranging many dragons.

 

That being said I don't mind losing some gc for the XP reward I get at the end. That's what I do it for. Over time I occasionally have to take a break from invances tho as I don't always make gc fast enough to replace my arrows for the next invance. But I don't like seeing other rangers walking around with training arrows. If you are a ranger be there to range to kill not to train. Training happens out in the rest of Draia not in the invance. You don't train for a battle when your in one......

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My opinion of helping is from start to finish requardless of how you help, melee, ranging, scouting or healing. I have heard several times the 120+ need to be split into 2 groups, 120-140 and 140+. Sure that would work great for the earlier time zone but for us in the later time zone it would be nearly impossible to get a team for either. Maybe limit the number of players allowed to enter. I do agree people should not be sitting at the gate doing nothing if there are still mobs.

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However, I would go even further, I would put the invance map as non drop in order people are able to participate without the fear of losing a rosto BUT if you die during the invance, either you don't get any experience at the end or your experience reward is halved at each death.

I find that an excellent idea!

 

I find this a horrible idea! While I only have experienced the 4060 invance so far, I often died to white tigers and sometimes to the feros because i was trying to help the team out. Many times the white tigers cast cooldown before you can even use a diss ring or cast mana drain. Even while I couldn't take out these monster by myself, I did help kill them by remote healing the tanks.

 

Why punish the lower leveled or allround player who contributes almost as much as the tanks?

 

I also believe there should be clear-cut guidance to what armors are required for each invance level, and if the armor requirement is different due to ranging that should be separately stated also.

Edited by Amaara

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My opinion of helping is from start to finish requardless of how you help, melee, ranging, scouting or healing. I have heard several times the 120+ need to be split into 2 groups, 120-140 and 140+. Sure that would work great for the earlier time zone but for us in the later time zone it would be nearly impossible to get a team for either. Maybe limit the number of players allowed to enter. I do agree people should not be sitting at the gate doing nothing if there are still mobs.

 

Explain nearly impossible: once a week, twice a week.

Edited by DonC

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there are VERY few 120-140 in the US time zone, Thats my point. In the 120+ invance in our time zone people do NOT sit at the gate and do nothing like they do in the earlier one. I have been to both so I see the difference. We average about 10 players in the 120+ so keep in mind that includes 120-140 players.

Edited by CherUT

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My opinion of helping is from start to finish requardless of how you help, melee, ranging, scouting or healing. I have heard several times the 120+ need to be split into 2 groups, 120-140 and 140+. Sure that would work great for the earlier time zone but for us in the later time zone it would be nearly impossible to get a team for either. Maybe limit the number of players allowed to enter. I do agree people should not be sitting at the gate doing nothing if there are still mobs.

 

How about this bracket stays 120-200, but a 120-140 is added. People in the lower range who join the 120-200 get the (lower) 120-140 bracket experience.

 

Below I have tried to take a stab at a proposal for equipment per bracket. This would be for fighters, I believe rangers who come with an elven bow should be allowed to wear whatever armor they feel comfortable with, down to augs. They would be fools not to use proper protection agains dragon bites.

Not sure about rangers using recurve or even crossbow (is the latter allowed?)

 

Fighter equipment:

 

40-60 |60-80 |80-100 |100-120 |120-200

Titanium Chain |Iron Plate |Steel plate |Titanium Plate |Bronze or RD

Augmented pants |Iron Cuisses |Steel Cuisses |Titanium Cuisses |Bronze or RD

Leather Boots |Iron Greaves |Steel Greaves |Titanium Greaves |Bronze or RD

 

Steel shield |Steel Shield |Titanium Shield |Titanium Shield |Titanium Shield

Ti short or S2E |Ti serpent |Cutlass or EC |Rapier |Bronze or Rad Rapier

 

What about two handed weapons?

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OK here is my summary of what happened on few invances I been too.

First I was ordered by someone once may be it was maxine not sure to stop tanking because i am not tank. I wear Black Dragon titanium shield radioactive sword. Every time I attack Naspa, trice or giant if current fighter don't drop plate they switch on me.

 

Always

 

Even when I got +5/5 astro on a/d/p/c pots on evasion and accuracy they still switch.

I was told I must help fighting. Ok I accept ofc, but if Giant switches on me whom I cannot hit I died before and can die now.

If I don't attack Giant a few pleople told me they tell mods I am not helping.

Should I ''help'' on the mob I cannot hit more then once in 10-15 times?

 

Then I was told if others are fighting a mob and I diss when they need help I do wrong. I SHOULD NOT diss till mob is dead. If it is a Naspa which switches on me I be dead before he is dead if others don't use fire arrows on him.

Then I am told I hit little without fire arrows and should use them, but I cannot hit with them at all reasoning is 4

 

Then I been told I diss monsters on others and run away Diss+Tele. When i got 0 mana and naspa on me I got a choice diss tele or die I choose the first and some say i dissed it on them.

 

Then when I did gate sitting I was told that gate sitting job is for that player who can tank all monsters including Giant till help arrives.

 

On another invance Aislinn or someone else I really can't recall I am sorry said that gate job is for lowest player and I should go fight on the field.

So, which one is right?

 

Then some say only need a gate sitter because gate sitter will shout if something comes and others come back. When we had no guards 1 time gate sitter died and it was lost.

 

On another invance I was told that if I ask for gate job then I got no rostogol on me because only rostogolless player would ask to do gate as it is the safest and carefree ( !? ) place on invance. As if on gate you are immortal

 

Then when I lagged I couldn't hit a fluffy and told I am not trying

 

I was told I am expected to fight even if it means I die. Because it is requeared by rules. You fight all or you don't go.

I cannot hit certain things enought to kill then. Naspaliu I hit on pots but cannot solo him

Giant I almost never hit tanking only 10-20 seconds can be killed if 3-4 rangers at once. However, I been told constanly a few invances ago if I don't attack them I am not helping there for I be reported as such to mods for a ban.

 

But others choose not to help because they say that they will die they will not help due to that.

About invis rat

May be rat should spawn and remain till invance ends?

About gc reward at end

I don't think it is a good idea honestly.

Why?

Because this might invite abuse and more people afking in invance. If they know they get exp and gc at end of it they figure ''i get gc and i don't really need to fight for drops''

Plus since those below range levels can still enter invance. Invance would be flooded with people who are here just for money. not helping of which could be player's alts and such. Ok he goes to 3 invances does nothing gets 20k gc gets a 3 day ban comes back 60k gc richer then before.

120-200 invance needs a lot more then 20k gc to cover ranger's costs. Witch blue and ice dragon, mares and such rangers spend a lot here 20k gc won't cover it.

 

Rule Amendments:

Player should be expecting to fight stuff, but if she/he can't due to astro or build she/he should not go and get killed. I have been often in a position where I must decide to attack and may be die or not attack and be complained on as not fighting. No One should face such choise.

 

Choice to Help:

Some choose not to help even if they see player is having a problem fighting mob. They choose so due to personal preferences. I was refused even when I asked. Here should be a definition for that

 

Gate Sitting: Should be a clear definition what type of player can watch gate.

 

Absence:

Here is now a 2 minute abscence maximum. Be abscent longer and you can't go back. This should be increassed to 5-10 minutes. We all got real lifes outside of el. If real life calls it comes first 2 minutes is too little.

 

I sometimes need 4-5 minutes to dress and get gear stuff after ambering in. I was told at last 3 timesI cannot go back because I spent too long outside. I wasn't afking I was getting gears. Still I am told I cannot go back.

Need clear definition about this.

Edited by Viperwitch

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just make it so you still need good gear, but introduce a fun support class through the magic system

increased remote heal based on lvl+rationality, add new remote shield spells that absorb damage or transfer xx% damage to yourself

that sort of stuff, then evryone, whatever there gear is can contribute

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just make it so you still need good gear, but introduce a fun support class through the magic system

increased remote heal based on lvl+rationality, add new remote shield spells that absorb damage or transfer xx% damage to yourself

that sort of stuff, then evryone, whatever there gear is can contribute

Thanks for bringing up the mages, I did not think about them. A pro mage can be a real big help.

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just make it so you still need good gear, but introduce a fun support class through the magic system

increased remote heal based on lvl+rationality, add new remote shield spells that absorb damage or transfer xx% damage to yourself

that sort of stuff, then evryone, whatever there gear is can contribute

That be like world of warcraft after that :P

And all this would be used at pk as well

What is really needed is for magic spell to be based on levels equally to base on atributes.

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just make it so you still need good gear, but introduce a fun support class through the magic system

increased remote heal based on lvl+rationality, add new remote shield spells that absorb damage or transfer xx% damage to yourself

that sort of stuff, then evryone, whatever there gear is can contribute

That be like world of warcraft after that :P

And all this would be used at pk as well

What is really needed is for magic spell to be based on levels equally to base on atributes.

 

never played WoW, but this is a pretty basic concept in most mmo, and it works

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....

Okay. I am NOT going to even attempt to try to quote this, but suffice it to say, if you expect to be taken seriously, you need to learn to post (especially very lengthy rants) coherently. However this is generally directed to you.

 

I never said the gatekeeper job is for the lowest person. I myself have refused the spot because I am not good enough. Please don't attribute statements to people if you really have no clue who said what.

 

Where do you get the idea that you have to solo nasps or giants?

 

No, not you "fight all" or you don't go. You fight from start to end. Or heal others. Or gatekeep (but not every time). Or try summoning or summoning stones. Or ranging. Or GROUP melee. So all this said, there are many ways to help that do not require you to solo giants and nasps. Read up.

 

You run to storage to restock more than anybody I've ever seen. So yeah, at some point, you've spent more time out of the invance than in it.

 

And yes, this thread exists is because people DO just stand there and watch others struggle. Or stand around at the gate. Or at storage. Or just walk around trying to look busy so they don't have to fight stuff. Or go afk. Or wear low armor so they can claim they can't fight "hard stuff".

 

But the short summary in my opinion, is a player needs to earn his reward, not have others earn it for him. If you (generic you) can't pull your own weight, for ANY reason, you shouldn't be going.

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Remove the whole gate keep thing, it is lame and makes people sit doing nothing for the whole invance

why not add a gate with a life bar that the mobs must destroy to make you lose, like in those tower defense games.

 

 

edit: hi villek :hiya:

Edited by scarr

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Steel set will be good enough most cases. And Viperwitch, no one except you must help until you die, you must do what you can, then you diss/flee, and drink mana. and even if you cant hit giant, it still help,because you help that way lower their def.,also,if you think you need 5-10 min breaks because RL, then you should not go invance. after all, i donr see much troubles, i feel most things are already OK, only nasty thing is those blue dragon scales not shared every time. And Maxine, you wonder is it X-bow allowed? Why not, they make decent damage, and x-bow users need restock much less,as bolts are only 1 emu, its very good for pinned drags.

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... And Maxine, you wonder is it X-bow allowed? Why not, they make decent damage, and x-bow users need restock much less,as bolts are only 1 emu, its very good for pinned drags.

 

b. You must bring good gear with you, don't come naked or with iron swords or with training arrows/bolts or with low level bows.

c. If you decide to be an archer, you must bring good gear (see the above point), have a reasonably high AP* (over 20), and you must use at least 300 arrows**.

According to the rules quoted above I would expect xbows (low level bow) not to be allowed. Point c. talks about arrows, bolts are not mentioned. I was just wondering if currently xbows fall within the rules. If not, then you can propose to change the rules to include them.

Edited by Maxine
shortened

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From the current rules: **If you have the Ethereal Ranger perk, you can use 200 arrows/bolts instead. Also, this applies for people that only do ranging, if you do melee too than it doesn't apply to you

 

If you can take bolts, I assume you can take Xbow.

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My post is not a rant. It is a summary of different situations I met during invances. It is relavant to the disscussion.

 

Aislinn you said this:

You run to storage to restock more than anybody I've ever seen. So yeah, at some point, you've spent more time out of the invance than in it.

 

That is correct, yes. Reason is that if I am fighting with people of my level or lower or slightly higher I become a tank. I burn HE/SR fast. I could burn 200 HE and 50 SR over 10-15 minutes doing that so yes I need to restock more often.

Also I diss and tele a lot and then coming back.

 

Defence Sudgestions:

 

1. Make a Flag at centre. If a monster comes here for 1 min it is lost

2. Instead of gate sitter it possible to use Barricades. Here wasa Barricade once at EL but it never got encoded.

Make barricade encoded then player can place those near gate which can be destroyed in let's say 5-7 hits. As defence bonus

3. May be make 2 forts? 1 ours and 1 mobster controlled. At mob controlled fort would be their leader. Not a giant someone else. Kill him and invance is won even if other monsters still left.

4. Make monsters come in waves like at instance

5. Place some towers on the field may be so rangers can safely support fights on the ground.

Edited by Viperwitch

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My post is not a rant. It is a summary of different situations I met during invances. It is relavant to the disscussion.

Not really. Most of what you said is incorrect. You weren't told any of that, and you are basically arguing that if you can't/don't want to fight or can't handle the creatures, and have to/want to go afk, you should still get to go and get the experience reward anyway.

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Viper is right, i've been to invances too where if for example you refill mana cause you got 0 left you quickly get accused of not helping.

or if you need to dis/run you get accused of doing it on purpose to make someone die.

sometimes you can't attack because it would switch away from tank so people don't want you to attack it, but others think it's cause you are lazy/not helping and might abuse you.

i saved a deathbag a few times and quickly get questioned at/near gate of why i'm there, sure i could drop the bag and go back, but then risk being accused of bagjumping cause someone else might take it in the meantime.

 

in all honesty, people need to grow the fk up and stop whining about everything, in the end it's a game and everyone gets exp at the end, so what if you spend a little more sr/he then someone else, or a few extra arrows. people have different reasons to not attack a monster, or not to bring expensive gear.

i've been in lower invances in my dragon armor/rdholm etc restocking lots killing the boss type monsters for that invance so low lvl stuff would remain for lower level people and i don't care seeing someone in augs, or someone standing around looking at me killing something.

 

in the end my/your extra effort is what gets you the exp, your whining/moaning and complaining isn't.

keep invance as it is and only go for people obviously afk'ing in a remotely safe spot

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and i don't care seeing someone in augs, or someone standing around looking at me killing something.

And if everyone did that, that's the end of invances.

 

Yes it's a game but the point of this mini-game within the game is to be pushed beyond normal in a combat situation. If combat isn't fun for you, you shouldn't be going. If you don't want to fight, you shouldn't be going. If you want to stand around and watch others earn your experience for you, you shouldn't be going.

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Remove the whole gate keep thing, it is lame and makes people sit doing nothing for the whole invance

why not add a gate with a life bar that the mobs must destroy to make you lose, like in those tower defense games.

 

 

edit: hi villek :hiya:

 

+1 This way players won't fight over who takes gate and sits still for an hour.

 

Tyrannis

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Viper is right, i've been to invances too where if for example you refill mana cause you got 0 left you quickly get accused of not helping.

or if you need to dis/run you get accused of doing it on purpose to make someone die.

sometimes you can't attack because it would switch away from tank so people don't want you to attack it, but others think it's cause you are lazy/not helping and might abuse you.

i saved a deathbag a few times and quickly get questioned at/near gate of why i'm there, sure i could drop the bag and go back, but then risk being accused of bagjumping cause someone else might take it in the meantime.

 

in all honesty, people need to grow the fk up and stop whining about everything, in the end it's a game and everyone gets exp at the end, so what if you spend a little more sr/he then someone else, or a few extra arrows. people have different reasons to not attack a monster, or not to bring expensive gear.

i've been in lower invances in my dragon armor/rdholm etc restocking lots killing the boss type monsters for that invance so low lvl stuff would remain for lower level people and i don't care seeing someone in augs, or someone standing around looking at me killing something.

 

in the end my/your extra effort is what gets you the exp, your whining/moaning and complaining isn't.

keep invance as it is and only go for people obviously afk'ing in a remotely safe spot

Thank you soo much Infamous. You made me feel a lot better then after i read Aislinn's replys :(

Aislinn I am sorry if I got misunderstood or If I worded it wrongly. I am not a good writer. I was always rubbish with words even most important ones in my life. Online the same.

When I write I am complelled to give best possible version of something which often leads to beeing 20+ pages long.

Different people told me different things

For example on normal day i need 2 minutes to max my mana with SR. And while doing it I try fighting something smaller or not fight at all. Because if I get a switch half mana won't help me. So, I was told a few times by players why am i just standing here.

I now always announce my cooldown and low mana.

I do not reattack again after dissing till my diss has fully cooled.

I have 4-5 such safe guards which made my fighting more efficient and more safer so to say without any damage to perfomance

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