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ChrisC

Economy Idea

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40 members have voted

  1. 1. Think both suggestions are a good idea?

    • Yes, it's a great idea.
      5
    • I like the first suggestion more than the second.
      6
    • I like the second suggestion more than the first.
      2
    • No, bad idea.
      27


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I'm not sure this should go into suggestions, it's more of a "Do you think this would be a good idea or not?." Please read the entire post before voting and if you are voting, also post a reply with your vote as well or it will not be counted.

 

This is about the bots. It was a great idea when the playerbase was small and when there were only a few bots compaired to the amount of players. You can log on almost anytime a day and see more bots on then there are players. Atm there's 220 bots, and only 144 players. I realize it may just be the time zone, but the fact that there are 220 bots is rediculous. The econmy isn't being run by players anymore, it's run by the competing bots to pay the most for items jacking the prices up.

 

Something needs to be done about this and I propose an idea and would like to get your idea about it. Just please read the entire thing before you think OMFG BANZ0r h1M!!1`~ please.

 

Two things need two happen, the first is essential items for game components (binding stones/enriched ess/serps ect.) should not be sold in the shop and the bots should be done away with, and make a marketplace instead.

 

If I could quote a friend from another forums,

 

Both the reason why the in-game prices of stuff people consider to be 'must-have' items is too high and the reason the GC black-market exists at all and drives inflation is because Radu sells rare ingreds (being required components of 'must-have' equipment) and Rostos in the shop. If he only sold vanity items, minor time savers, memberships with some mild benefit, etc. the game's market/economy would be much better off. Key gameplay items (being the bread and butter of the economy) should be only obtainable via gameplay, this keeps their prices reasonable within the game world, because only game-world factors affect it.

 

So for the second suggestion about removing the bots, is simply they have taken over, Matrix style.

 

Now adays you only see people buying raw ingred's and manu daily items. There are so many bots in-game compaired to the amount of players that they are ruining the economy by constantly competing with each other to pay the most for something, driving the prices sky high instead of the few players with high manu selling their items on a small number of bots. The game has grown, so the way you handle the market has to as well, which is where the Marketplace idea comes in. We need to give a map, preferably one without a storage, the Marketplace for each continent. The market place could be like a large building or lots of stands, maybe even a large amount stands with npc's behind each one. You could have these npc's sell things for you, only a certain amount of things at a time and be buying certain amounts of things at a time as well for you, just like a bot. To cover the loss of the $20 or $100 income Radu would lose, he could give the players that had a bot the ability to buy/sell more items at a time (have more available slots). Also could make it so you could pay Radu moniez to unlock the ability to buy/sell more things at a time (like having a bot). Although I don't think you should have to pay more than $20 to have the max amount of slots available.

 

So here is my idea, along with a friend's, on a way to help fix the economy. What do you think about it? Please post a reply with you vote or it will not be counted. I just want to get an idea on what everyone thinks.

 

Thanks for reading my wall of text, I hope you didn't get crit'd too hard.

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I think bots, are not the problem itself.

It's the people who run them AND i need to say not all of the bot owners are like this.

This situation is caused by people who re-sell items. I am a bot owner too, and i was selling HEs for 7.8gc for a looooong time. All of them were made by myself (i stocked the bot with ~3k HEs per day).

But when i realized that my bot was used just for some greedy ***** who bought all of them to stock his own bot, i stopped making and selling them.

However other people just rised the price to make it not profitable to other bot owners. But then when a shortage of a certain item came, they just pushed the price up and the same scenario repeated.

Same scenario happened with rostos and hydro bars.

Part of the problem is WTF instance. 5 people doing it every 4 days, means ~300kgc income for 3 hours of game play for each member of that instance and of course there are more then 1 teams.

With easy gc, people are willing to pay way more then the usual prices.

So, yes ... bots might be part of the problem, but i don't think that your suggestion will solve the problem.

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I like the first suggesttion. I think it makes sense. It would certainly effect gameplay. Having a crafters/manuers etc in your guild becomes more important and more interesting. They will become true support function. And the rare items will become rare.

But where do you set the border: Everything (generalising) above lvl 50 ? looking at manu say: steel and tit plate armor(and above) only ingame.

maybe make caves with wolfram/hydro/dvarium pk-able so that harvesters need protection from fighters.

 

 

I do not think the bots idea is a good idea.

Edited by niemand

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The econmy isn't being run by players anymore, it's run by the competing bots to pay the most for items jacking the prices up.

 

Two things need two happen, the first is essential items for game components (binding stones/enriched ess/serps ect.) should not be sold in the shop and the bots should be done away with, and make a marketplace instead.

 

Both the reason why the in-game prices of stuff people consider to be 'must-have' items is too high and the reason the GC black-market exists at all and drives inflation is because Radu sells rare ingreds (being required components of 'must-have' equipment) and Rostos in the shop. If he only sold vanity items, minor time savers, memberships with some mild benefit, etc. the game's market/economy would be much better off. Key gameplay items (being the bread and butter of the economy) should be only obtainable via gameplay, this keeps their prices reasonable within the game world, because only game-world factors affect it.

 

If you'll not be able to buy items like rostogol stones, binding stones, enrichments stones etc from shop, the price of them will rocket jump to the sky.

And together with them, the price of all affected items. It's that simple.

The true problem is that too much gc come into the game. As i said, if you get lot of gc in short time, you have no problem spend more.

As to the "black market" ... this is not about shop items, black market is about selling gc which were farmed just for that purpose - by doing WTF instances, selling harvestables etc to get gc and then move this gc to other player for free (in means of ingame items).

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I understand the idea that bots are ruining the economy by jacking up prices, etc. I have been mixing dragon armours and other high level manu items for the last few months now, and before I trained and made a bot (~1 month ago) I could not buy binders for less than 24k. My prices reflected what I paid for the ingredients that go into them. My bot now buys me binders for ~22.8k ea. For the first time in my manu career I can actually make a (very slight) profit which MIGHT cover the costs of savings. Most formulas were based on binders costing ~5-10k, serp stones costing ~5k, eme ~10k etc.

 

If you want to curb inflation on high level items, increase find/make rates on these rare items until there is an overflow of them on market and price steadily drops. As is, more are used than come into the game through natural means, so the price is going to continue going up as is. People who want to get gc by spending $$ at the shop will still do so, just on different items. On this point, imho, it is the buy low/sell high mentality on shop items that hurts the economy more than bots in general.

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People who want to get gc by spending $$ at the shop will still do so, just on different items. On this point, imho, it is the buy low/sell high mentality on shop items that hurts the economy more than bots in general.

On this point i don't agree with you. Selling high is possible only because the rate of gc<-->$$ is rising and as i said before, it's because there are ways to get fast gc ... So with lots of gc on hand, gc sellers are trying to get the sale and push the ratio even higher what in turn means, that people who buy from shop set higher prices. And because the demand for some items is a LOT higher then the supply, they dictate the prices (because lot more of these items come into the game from shop compared to the ones that are found)...

Edited by groomsh

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The problem is not the bots, bots are player run, and if they did not exist, people would just be posting more on market and competing in the same way.

 

The problems lie in npc prices, the amount of gc's in game, and gc's sellers always selling at a lower rate to out bid each other. What is it 19k/$ now? I remember when it was 3K/$ a short 5 or 6 years ago.

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No, bad idea.

 

I personally believe market prices are a daily thing, supply and demand, not something that was cast in gold the day it was introduced.

 

Also own a bot for some years now and he has been placed at a specially selected location, as probably most owners do.

 

Silly suggestions ( both ) for something that I think does not even exists. Perhaps look at your own challenges, change your tactics perhaps.

 

N.

 

 

--

 

 

Before I posted my short statement it was in a much more elaborate post but I deleted most again after writing was done to come to the bare essence. However since it was possible ground to be misinterpreted or misunderstood I rather explain my reasoning, after al I did not graduate the handsome boy modeling school of Lala for nothing.

 

In my opinion every new update, item, new creature or new game component, will cause a ripple in EL’s economy. An item or simple ingredient that was before, perhaps years, hardly in any demand could suddenly be popular and or hard to get. Their value will fluctuate accordingly. Since this game is in development and not something I bought in a box I just go with the flow as I have done over the years.

 

I consider NPC buying and selling prices ( when available ) guide lines, but that’s it, consider it quite normal that any player ( or bot ) is offering better or worse prices depending on his/her own personal play style, available time, offered service level, location, mentality or goal.

 

The topic itself was about two things: Stop selling rare items ( Rostogols, Bindings, Essences etc ) from official shop and removing all the trade bots from game.

 

If you understand the game mechanics of EL a little, and I honestly think most of us do, there is without a doubt many moments in your career ingame where those rare items are needed. You can be lucky enough to make or find yourself, make enough gc to buy from player or bot or get at the official shop. Cutting down the third option of the supply from shop and make it only player base / luck based will only make the rare items more rarer and ergo will guarantee to raise their value in gold coins, no matter how much tweaking in their find or make rate. Any item requiring these items will also rise in rarity and value. Furthermore by excluding these items from shop an important part of income for the development and investment is reduced hence it will hinder game development even might cause game existence.

 

Removing all bots was the second part of the topic, I for one enjoy their presences dotted around in the maps and the services they offer besides the NPC’s. And hence their popularity I am not the only one. The reason I took a bot a couple of years ago myself was that I no longer had to spend my time on market channel and could spend time more wisely. The thought that I had to go to a central Mall or every trade had to be back to player to player would be a serious downgrade to playing time / style and the availability of items, hence their prices are also bound to go up.

 

Were these good ideas’s to solve an economy? In my personal opinion, and I do not, I repeat, do not, speak for the community, I am just one, just a simple player, nothing more, I personally think the suggestions as made would not increase development, gameplay enjoyment or having the desired effect. Fixing the economy, if needed, should be looked at from a completely different perspective, but that was not what this topic was or is about.

 

I sincerely apologize to ChrisC if my choice of words was wrong. Sometimes things get adrift in translation. I am sorry.

 

N.

Edited by Nardo Lala

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Just like general market prices, bot prices could (not so easily) be controled by just adjusting the buy/sell prices of NPCs. Lower the NPC sales prices on items and the bots (and people) will all have to drop to that or lower. Radu has total control over this (but again, adjusting the market is not easy to do well).

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agree with wizzy problems are people who sell gc for $ and those who buy it.

I really dont understand why radu not adds a simple rule no rl-trades allowed. so he could ban easy the people doing this, only look in logfiles of known players and bye bye economy destroyer :) imo this would be a great first step.

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agree with wizzy problems are people who sell gc for $ and those who buy it.

I really dont understand why radu not adds a simple rule no rl-trades allowed. so he could ban easy the people doing this, only look in logfiles of known players and bye bye economy destroyer :) imo this would be a great first step.

 

to think that people will stop selling gc, or that people will stop buying it is ridiculous. Sure he can ban most people, but there will be some people that will find a way around or do it for a while without getting caught ect.

 

Just to add onto my first suggestion, when the bindings/enrichment stones ect arent being sold from the shop anymore, the find rate should go up. with more of them in-game, and less people buying them for RL moniez, they will lose their $$$ value, and the prices of key items such as armors and weapons will go down and even out.

 

Would be nice to hear from Radu if this is even a possibility, or if he has any ideas about fixing the economy.

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Just to add onto my first suggestion, when the bindings/enrichment stones ect arent being sold from the shop anymore, the find rate should go up. with more of them in-game, and less people buying them for RL moniez, they will lose their $$$ value, and the prices of key items such as armors and weapons will go down and even out.

Sorry but selling in-game items for RL $$ has nothing to do with price of in-game items.

 

To be able to sell bindings etc for high gc amounts, players (buyers) need to HAVE such amounts of gc. So you need to look at ways how gc enter the game.

Those players who buy gc for $$, are then willing to pay way more then casual player, pushing the prices even higher.

When you buy something from shop, you don't get gc, you get ingame items and THEN trade them for gc.

 

It is the farmers who "create" huge amounts of gc, simply for the purpose of selling them. So the starting point would be to look from where farmers get gc so easy, that they are willing to raise the selling rate to current status (i think it's around 19kgc/$$) ...

 

Let's say a farmer does WTF every 4 days -> 7x per month with an average of 200k share, he earns 1.4Mgc for actively playing 21 hours

By just doing this a farmer can earn ~70$$ (for playing 3 hours every 4 days) ...

Then he can of course afk harvest some harvestables and sell them, do Pro instances, "harvest ACWs", and so on ... i guess you got my point...

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agree with wizzy problems are people who sell gc for $ and those who buy it.

I really dont understand why radu not adds a simple rule no rl-trades allowed. so he could ban easy the people doing this, only look in logfiles of known players and bye bye economy destroyer :) imo this would be a great first step.

 

to think that people will stop selling gc, or that people will stop buying it is ridiculous. Sure he can ban most people, but there will be some people that will find a way around or do it for a while without getting caught ect.

Just because you can't eliminate a problem 100% doesn't mean you can't drastically reduce it.

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banning peeps for selling gc is not the solution. Even learner would agree. the best to solve all the gc ingame is thinking of a way to get it back to npc`s.

Maybe reducing the prices off flowers and other raw ingr. to lower prices so that players can choose to spend it at harvesters or giving it back to the system and spend it at an npc.

 

This may be not the best solution @least im trying to think off a way but the problem will always be there.

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Just to add onto my first suggestion, when the bindings/enrichment stones ect arent being sold from the shop anymore, the find rate should go up. with more of them in-game, and less people buying them for RL moniez, they will lose their $$$ value, and the prices of key items such as armors and weapons will go down and even out.

Sorry but selling in-game items for RL $$ has nothing to do with price of in-game items.

 

Really?... No, really??

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@ChrisC & evilmangopie: have you actually read the rest of my response, or just selectively the first (quoted) sentence ?

If yes, could you please elaborate on your response ?

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So maybe lenghten the waiting time for WTF instance? Like 1 per two weeks or even 1 per month? I know that there is huge chanse of loosing rosto and high risk gives chance for high income but imo WTF should be an extraordinary, rare event

Edited by learg

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@ChrisC & evilmangopie: have you actually read the rest of my response, or just selectively the first (quoted) sentence ?

If yes, could you please elaborate on your response ?

RL$$ and price of in-game items go hand in hand just like the gc black market, they all affect each other. The only way RL$$ wouldn't affect the price of ingame items would be if the find rate of rare stones ect was high and if there was no gc black market.

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RL$$ and price of in-game items go hand in hand just like the gc black market, they all affect each other. The only way RL$$ wouldn't affect the price of ingame items would be if the find rate of rare stones ect was high and if there was no gc black market.

I said that buying game items from EL-shop does not affect the price of in-game items (at least not getting the prices up). It is the gc market that drives prices up. So yes, RL $$ have ill effects on EL economy, but it's not the $$ spent on EL-shop items, it's $$ spent on gc.

I don't see how items bought from EL-shop could dribe prices up ? If you get more rare items into game, it's price would fall (because they would not be that rare anymore), don't you agree ?

It's the people who buy gc who are willing to pay more then casual gamer (because bought gc are easy earned in means of game play). And of course bot owners see that people are willing to pay more, so they just rise the prices.

What can a casual gamer do ? He either forgets it or pays that price ...

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@ChrisC & evilmangopie: have you actually read the rest of my response, or just selectively the first (quoted) sentence ?

If yes, could you please elaborate on your response ?

RL$$ and price of in-game items go hand in hand just like the gc black market, they all affect each other. The only way RL$$ wouldn't affect the price of ingame items would be if the find rate of rare stones ect was high and if there was no gc black market.

 

For example, a rostotgol stone is $5 and has been $5 dollars for a very very long time.

 

People used to sell gc's for 1$/3000gc rostos in game cost 15k at the time

 

Now people sell Rostogols for 55k in game

 

People now sell gold coins for 1$/18000gc

 

 

Now, crazy as it may seem, THE bulk of all these rare items over the years came into game by shop sales. Now even if the in-game-find rate is a little lower now, this does not change the fact that the "in game found items" always sold according to the market demand.

 

It is a simple fact that there is too many gc's coming into game and not enough leaving, I do not just blame farmers either. I blame the legit player that after 5 years of collecting decide the best course of action is to sell all storage flooding the market and then selling the gc's to other players. In fact, I know a few cases where people where buying gc's just to re-sell them at a better rate.

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Hard idea and most of the players probably will kill me if it happen but:

 

If people don't want to/too little opportunity to spend their gc at NPC maybe make forced outflow of gc? Divide all players's amount of gold by X factor. Adjust at the same time high end monster drops and instance earning.

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...

It is a simple fact that there is too many gc's coming into game and not enough leaving, I do not just blame farmers either. I blame the legit player that after 5 years of collecting decide the best course of action is to sell all storage flooding the market and then selling the gc's to other players. In fact, I know a few cases where people where buying gc's just to re-sell them at a better rate.

I don't disagree with you about the gc coming in and (not) going out, but:

'legit players that sell a store' do NOT bring any gc in game that wasn't there before. Nor do harvesters, nor gc buyers/sellers. They just move the gc around.

Gc comes in game through sales to NPC, monster drops and harvest events (and I think I have all the sources of gc there), and leaves (afaik) mainly through buys from NPC... (ignoring characters being abandoned/locked/item wiped).

 

While we are at it: is there any hard information about the total amounts of gc coming in and going out of the game over say 24h or a week? Same question for the rare items

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...

It is a simple fact that there is too many gc's coming into game and not enough leaving, I do not just blame farmers either. I blame the legit player that after 5 years of collecting decide the best course of action is to sell all storage flooding the market and then selling the gc's to other players. In fact, I know a few cases where people where buying gc's just to re-sell them at a better rate.

I don't disagree with you about the gc coming in and (not) going out, but:

'legit players that sell a store' do NOT bring any gc in game that wasn't there before. Nor do harvesters, nor gc buyers/sellers. They just move the gc around.

I disagree here.

"legit players that sell a store" DO bring gc into the game that should not be here IF that player quits. That gc is now going to somebody else who didn't earn it on top of his normal gc amount he SHOULD have. So you now have 2 people's worth of gc on 1 person, and one less person playing. Same problem with gc sellers. They aren't wasting their valuable time harvesting. They set up an army of alts to do it while they play on their main character and make more gc in drops or whatever. It is artifically inflating the amount of gc in the game.

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