God Please save PK

[Aislinn]

imo i think the 130s+ all jumping on 1 or 2 lower lvls or 130+not attacking others thier own levels and just chit chats in a pk map is what ruins pk its stupid lol why not try to have a good fight instead of a quick 4-5 hit fight and a guarenteed win best imo should hold a contest no prizes just make no brods allowed and all skills allowed just to have fun and see what happens i dont mean guild vs guild more of a free for all? let ppl try pk who havent from that aspect then comment on this thread as i pk every day so does cali and many others who tbh i dont see on this topic

Well then why don't you and caliphear go have a nice conversation somewhere about how you would tweak pk since in your opinion you are the only two who deserve to have an opinion.

[Nova]

One of the things I hear about a lot that seems to be a problem, from many different styles of players, is that it is very frustrating to LEARN to be good at pk because most of the time you will get smashed by a higher player while trying to learn to dis/tele/flee/not suck. This can cause frustration with the activity and cause people to simply give up and say that PK is not for them.

 

Maybe a good way to inject a little life into PK is to provide a place for people who are new to it to safely train away from the people who are already set up. Maybe a place you can only enter if your pki is below a certain point, or some other kind of restriction like that.

[Wizzy]

thats the reason pk has died no one participates because theyre scared of a death in kf so what you dont drop...i think it is rediculous that people talk about pk but yet i have seen them maybe pk 2ce or 3 times in the past 2 years and ruined pk all the higher a/ds try to huddle together in one guild or ally or nap that is what ruins pk

 

We can go on forever of PK is Dead, and the top fighters are all allies, and in the same guild, and bought/sold char. All problems, all for a different thread.

 

I am looking for concrete suggestions to bring to Radu to make PK more balanced. Although, I of course can not stop this topic from taking any certain direction and I o think there are other threads in the past that addresses all of these concerns.

 

Some time ago, I made a suggestion to make some changes to the Red/Black/Ice dragon armor and the ice/fire/magic/thermal serp. To make them more balanced. Each Serp having advantages over Each type of armor.

 

Another Suggestion was to make the warlock cape much more useful.

 

I guess these are the types of suggestions I was looking for in this thread. It is about weapon/armor/clothing/item balance, Not "pk is dead and you don't know what your talking about"

[Wizzy]

One of the things I hear about a lot that seems to be a problem, from many different styles of players, is that it is very frustrating to LEARN to be good at pk because most of the time you will get smashed by a higher player while trying to learn to dis/tele/flee/not suck. This can cause frustration with the activity and cause people to simply give up and say that PK is not for them.

 

Maybe a good way to inject a little life into PK is to provide a place for people who are new to it to safely train away from the people who are already set up. Maybe a place you can only enter if your pki is below a certain point, or some other kind of restriction like that.

 

I have been asked on 2 occasions for pk trainning by new players, I took them into a "safe" pk map and went through weapons/armor combinations, meds, pots, etc. They both can kick my ass now in a pk map, but I do encourage other people to take a new player and train them up a bit.

 

Aislinn, I have a 17:00-20:00 opening this evening if you want to learn to pawnt those noobs in KF

[groomsh]

It would really help if somebody could post concrete examples of what should be tweaked and how.

There have been numerous topics about PK with very small results and i think that mostly because there were no concrete examples given.

Maybe if people could come with good balanced tweaks, it would have higher chance being considered.

I mean, try to put together numbers and examples backed up with some reasoning.

 

Something like (this is just a wild guess, so don't shoot me):

 

Change the probability of successful spell invocation based on worn armor (that stat shown using #arm command):

Spell casting success:

healing spells = current_probability - (armor / 3)
buff spells 	= current_probability - (armor / 2)
damage spells	= current_probability - armor

 

Spell: Magic Immunity (30% - 95%)

MI = 30 + ((2 ^ magic_nexus) / 10) + ((((1 + 1 / magic_level)^magic_level) * magic_level) / 10)
MI = MIN(95, MI)
So it would be computed from 3 parts:
	 30% basic immunity 
	 0% to 25% based on magic nexus (counted up to 8 magic nexus)
	 0% to 40% based on magic level (level 1-5: 0%, level 10: 2%, level 30: 8%, level 60: 16%, level 90: 24%, level 120: 32%, level 160: 43%)

 

Of course most of the other spells would need to be tweaked.

Also "mage items" would need to provide negative bonus to accuracy and damage.

[DrtyDevil]

so yet again we would waste our pps on nexuses that we reset from :<

[Alphabet]

This is only my opinion

 

Pk is a bit dead. Though what's the point of Pkin if there is no reward? Pk points no use for them yet, and lots just pk at Kf because they don't want to loose nothing. And most people that pk are high a/d and wealthy, why not have pk for lower levels aswell?

 

Why not just make use of some of the arena's, and more might come. Dp arena, Whitestone, etc..

 

Dp areans none use them, raise the cap? Make it so people with 160s a/d CANT attack there..

 

You guys think it's fair if someone with 40s a/d is training there and 160s a/d came and killed him?

 

Yes i know the Attributes and a/d get lowered. But regardles the 160 a/d person can have 48/48/48/48/4/48 (Just an example)

 

The 40/40 a/d person can have 24/32/4/4/24.

 

The attributes do get lowered, so does your a/d, But your emu does not. your mana don't. Your health does not. Your damage with any magic offensive spell wont get lowered.

 

Yes wizzy i agree that mages are overpowered. Yes they should be nerfed. Though rangers are fine you can use Point Defense + Range is way more costly then mage, and to do good dmg need a elven, 60 ap.. thats 1m right there w/o leveling range. A mage an have 48/48 w/r and do like 80s harm with low magic, not to mention essences for harms are less then 100 gold. It's alot easier to raise magic then range, not to mention there's no range god either. There are no attributes that make rangers hit better, just make them see better.

Edited April 9, 2012 by ISnipe

[Nova]

One of the things I hear about a lot that seems to be a problem, from many different styles of players, is that it is very frustrating to LEARN to be good at pk because most of the time you will get smashed by a higher player while trying to learn to dis/tele/flee/not suck. This can cause frustration with the activity and cause people to simply give up and say that PK is not for them.

 

Maybe a good way to inject a little life into PK is to provide a place for people who are new to it to safely train away from the people who are already set up. Maybe a place you can only enter if your pki is below a certain point, or some other kind of restriction like that.

 

I have been asked on 2 occasions for pk trainning by new players, I took them into a "safe" pk map and went through weapons/armor combinations, meds, pots, etc. They both can kick my ass now in a pk map, but I do encourage other people to take a new player and train them up a bit.

 

Aislinn, I have a 17:00-20:00 opening this evening if you want to learn to pawnt those noobs in KF

 

Thinking a map is safe and knowing for sure are 2 very different feelings of security. And as nice as it is to help out a noob or take them under your wing, that in no way should be considered an answer. Some people just want to play without having to worry about boosting the player base.

[Caliphear]

Nova has a good idea but you cant really go off of pki. My char Charisma has -10 pki (lol yeah i suck) and is 110's a/d. I even thought maybe if you couldnt attack a player who isnt in so many level's of you but that wouldnt work either if you decide to have a guild vs guild or team vs team fight. But this is going back to so many threads where we have said the same things over and over.

 

There is alot of problems with pk but unfortunatly the easiest the solution of ppl not being douches cant be implemented.

 

@drty - ppl's opinions or statements of why ppl dont pk have the best reason to post. Whats the sense of trying to improve anything if we cant get ppl to participate?

[Aislinn]

Not trying to claim pk is dead. Just pointing out how to make it a rockin' party with a lot more people and why it isn't.

Funny, I had asked korrode to teach me to pk and then he left. :/

But even still, I'm not willing to invest most of my EL life savings into gear to have it be intentionally destroyed or dropped to somebody else. And of course, I can go in augs but then I'll die in 1 second versus the 5 seconds if I'm fully geared up. And as I have stated, I find it disturbing I have to sacrifice a more needed item to use the red cape to not have some jerk intentionally break my gear for no purpose other than to break my expensive gear. Just on principle, I won't do it.

 

So that said, no matter how the current gear is tweaked, and how well I'm taught, I still don't stand a chance with the pk system and cost to participate as it is now. And those factors, and the fact it is impossible to compete with the handful that do now, will prevent me. (It is impossible because it goes against what I believe to be the integrity of the game to buy or sell gc for $ or buy a character or otherwise falsely elevate my levels or wealth).

 

Anyway, I'm done with the topic. I just don't believe gear tweaking matters with the other issues unresolved.

Carry on!

[Wizzy]

It would really help if somebody could post concrete examples of what should be tweaked and how.

There have been numerous topics about PK with very small results and i think that mostly because there were no concrete examples given.

Maybe if people could come with good balanced tweaks, it would have higher chance being considered.

I mean, try to put together numbers and examples backed up with some reasoning.

 

Something like (this is just a wild guess, so don't shoot me):

 

Change the probability of successful spell invocation based on worn armor (that stat shown using #arm command):

Spell casting success:

healing spells = current_probability - (armor / 3)
buff spells 	= current_probability - (armor / 2)
damage spells	= current_probability - armor

 

Spell: Magic Immunity (30% - 95%)

MI = 30 + ((2 ^ magic_nexus) / 10) + ((((1 + 1 / magic_level)^magic_level) * magic_level) / 10)
MI = MIN(95, MI)
So it would be computed from 3 parts:
	 30% basic immunity 
	 0% to 25% based on magic nexus (counted up to 8 magic nexus)
	 0% to 40% based on magic level (level 1-5: 0%, level 10: 2%, level 30: 8%, level 60: 16%, level 90: 24%, level 120: 32%, level 160: 43%)

 

Of course most of the other spells would need to be tweaked.

Also "mage items" would need to provide negative bonus to accuracy and damage.

 

Exactly Groomish

 

Say for example, we have the new Wizzard hat in game. Lets make the formulae the same cost as a COL or a COM. Then lets give it some stats.

 

For example, Black Wizard Hat. +150mana, +25 Life. -5 attack, -15 critical to hit, +2 cold protection +5 magic.. For example

 

So, now we have a new pk/fighting hat for mages, It looks the part, it costs 90k, and can be used in place of a com, or a col, because you can only wear one at a time.

[DrtyDevil]

i may just be posting because nothing is really wrong with pk except not being able to summon while fighting with out a stone but that is my personal opinion i just think pk is dead to certain people because they just dont understand how to pk so if inturn making it more difficult is what you chose to do go for it guys i just think if made more difficult with more complex set ups then it would eventually destroy pk in itself. that is all i meant by all my post

[Nova]

Nova has a good idea but you cant really go off of pki. My char Charisma has -10 pki (lol yeah i suck) and is 110's a/d. I even thought maybe if you couldnt attack a player who isnt in so many level's of you but that wouldnt work either if you decide to have a guild vs guild or team vs team fight. But this is going back to so many threads where we have said the same things over and over.

 

There is alot of problems with pk but unfortunatly the easiest the solution of ppl not being douches cant be implemented.

 

@drty - ppl's opinions or statements of why ppl dont pk have the best reason to post. Whats the sense of trying to improve anything if we cant get ppl to participate?

 

hmm good point, didn't think about neg pki. number of total fights had or won maybe. shouldn't really worry about a guild event in a pk noob training ground. it's just to get your basics down, so having people of high lvl not be able to attack lower lvl people could work too.

 

I know everyone hates to read but sometimes it's the best way to get info out there, maybe there could be some NPCs in the training area who cover the basic idea of PK and some things to watch out for. Would help people feel a little more secure and 'armed in the mind' when going into a real PK map.

Edited April 9, 2012 by Nova

[Wizzy]

i may just be posting because nothing is really wrong with pk except not being able to summon while fighting with out a stone but that is my personal opinion i just think pk is dead to certain people because they just dont understand how to pk so if inturn making it more difficult is what you chose to do go for it guys i just think if made more difficult with more complex set ups then it would eventually destroy pk in itself. that is all i meant by all my post

 

If you see nothing wrong with the current system, you are blind.

[DrtyDevil]

its because if you know how to avoid it m8 then it shouldnt bother you there are ways to avoid bombs/mages/rangers i carry pd every time i go pk if i can winn the fight ill diss its all in learning how to pk not the basic the whole miles that are involved utry to understand how it all works not just swinging a sword m8 that is why it is not flawed to me im 100/106 a/d and i pk people higher than me on a daily basis i know how to pk i tried showing newbie but they either dont listen or dont understand it like aj_the_best i tried to teach just wont listen

[groomsh]

i may just be posting because nothing is really wrong with pk except not being able to summon while fighting with out a stone but that is my personal opinion i just think pk is dead to certain people because they just dont understand how to pk so if inturn making it more difficult is what you chose to do go for it guys i just think if made more difficult with more complex set ups then it would eventually destroy pk in itself. that is all i meant by all my post

Sorry, but this clearly shows, that you don't want to change PK to be good for all, but rather to be it good for yourself.

[DrtyDevil]

basically just learn how to pk b4 anyone tries to down it dont look at it from a blind perspective look at it in full everything its all on tactics

 

if you dont understand the tactics just ask for help maybe someone will take the time and show you...

[Wizzy]

its because if you know how to avoid it m8 then it shouldnt bother you there are ways to avoid bombs/mages/rangers i carry pd every time i go pk if i can winn the fight ill diss its all in learning how to pk not the basic the whole miles that are involved utry to understand how it all works not just swinging a sword m8 that is why it is not flawed to me im 100/106 a/d and i pk people higher than me on a daily basis i know how to pk i tried showing newbie but they either dont listen or dont understand it like aj_the_best i tried to teach just wont listen

 

Are you saying I don't know how to pk? Don't worry, I know all the tricks. I know how to survive and win, and I am often very sucessfull, you just do not see my messages on @@6, because they do not report magic kills.

 

In fact, I have pked people since 2005. And I have watched over the years the game change, but the items not changing with it. However, this topic is so derailed I give up. fuck it

[Sonic]

Warning: Drink 3 glasses of wine before reading my post to not be offended by dry humour!

 

Well as it stands now, I'm mostly into PVE, PVP no longer has a competitive edge to it for me. Competitive meaning, my opponent does something, and I can respond in a meaningful way, and this carries on until one of the opponents makes a mistake(which is taken advantage of) or one of the opponents have a superior strategy of winning or greater level of skill responding to situations.

 

For example: Mages can harm/MD/whatever(strong magical attack), but we have MI(cheap long lasting magical defence), but we also have MI removal wards (ohhh! an added layer of complexity to weave into strategy - make person move = % chance to remove MI, but even if its removed it can be recast straight away! ) (oooh! more layers of complexity: we can level our magical level, get will/reas, wear items, all to reduce magic damage) (Oohhh! another layer: we can wear items or construct our build to have high hp to protect agasint high harms!)

 

Then we have mines: Boom dead. (OoooH!...no wait, nothing you can do about that)

 

The competitive fight doesnt really exist[anymore?]. I'd say many pk confrontations these days are simply assassinations of poeople who just happen to be in a pk area for some odd reason (harving/questing/passing through the map/exploring/training/.../...). That said, some people do manage to have fun in pk areas once in a while, on the odd accasion.

[groomsh]

The competitive fight doesnt really exist[anymore?]. I'd say many pk confrontations these days are simply assassinations of poeople who just happen to be in a pk area for some odd reason (harving/questing/passing through the map/exploring/training/.../...). That said, some people do manage to have fun in pk areas once in a while, on the odd accasion.

Exactly! (Oh you forgot the lured players )

[Quesar]

The problem is pkers don't want to pk pkers - they only want to pk noobs.

 

Newhope was camping the hydro route this morning, but none of the bad add pkers went to fight him. When they actually have a chance of losing, they don't want to risk it.

[_iNvoKeD]

I skipped most of what was said; and even though yeah I bought a 130/140 a/d char, I have had UMPTEEN accounts of 100+a/d and pk'd... Been here since '05/'06.

 

As a mage, max p/c/r/w, I get beaten to death by most people even 5 a/d lower and UP, simply because I dont have any instinct or vit.

 

I've probably killed 20 people, but at the same time died like 6-7 times by the same people so it goes both ways for mages; takes real lack of concentration for people to drop MI to get the double-harm KO (I harm for 140-150 in people fully geared). Since I been back...

 

I mean mages are RARE as it is, I could list you half a dozen right now, and only 1 i know is under 100 a/d, so Mages do take alot of effort to not get Bronze+FA'd 2 hit dead by someone in KF, unless they can get a sly invis-double harm in augs on a 140 a/d-er.

 

Range is a BIT OP Personally, I mean 60s at 40 range and almost every hit is a 60, and I personally never use point defence, but thats just the way I am, if you slowed down bows a tiny bit, to a bit slower than Elven, no one can really moan, 9/10 people use Autoclickers in GP Arena to train range, so by slowing it down that tiny bit wont make a difference whatsoever.

- Yes 60 AP does cost what 900k? But if you're smart you can do it for 600k on a recon day for instance, and the amount of GC in circulation ATM is enormous.

 

To me; the first point of call should be RC bombs (Not Detonaters). add a 2 second cooldown like spells in combat. If you're good with getting in double harms, then you'll know how to get in a double bomb getting around the 2 second "cooldown".

 

You could also introduce something; where you can only attack people who are 10 a/d above/below you (obv the a+d/2 formula would be used for this, this might utilize the 'tank' or A>D build a bit better for those who enjoy it).

 

And as for the BRoD; reduce it from 2% to 1%, remove CoTU affect from Mage robe and make the COTU cape indestructible and up the price at NPC from 7k to 50k. Sorted. - That way it IS your fault if you get brodded, PK is all about paying attention.

 

I'm sure if you found the middle, alot more people would be inclined to PK. Also mod-hosted PK events might be a good idea, they select a team of people over a/d's ranging over 100-160 for instance and they have to defend KF fort.

 

Just my two pennies.

Edited April 9, 2012 by _iNvoKeD

[DrtyDevil]

tyvm sonic stratagy use it. btw as i said on the enchanted serp books maybe if wasnt only availible from shop and can put the books that have been ingame a long time to use would liven up pk?

 

?

btw people do buy the books to make them to pk with but ehhhrm find out later that they wasted thier gc on worthless knowledge.

Edited April 9, 2012 by DrtyDevil

[DuBro]

The problem is pkers don't want to pk pkers - they only want to pk noobs.

 

Newhope was camping the hydro route this morning, but none of the bad add pkers went to fight him. When they actually have a chance of losing, they don't want to risk it.

 

pm me next time :> i will try

[_iNvoKeD]

The problem is pkers don't want to pk pkers - they only want to pk noobs.

 

Newhope was camping the hydro route this morning, but none of the bad add pkers went to fight him. When they actually have a chance of losing, they don't want to risk it.

 

pm me next time :> i will try

 

Well; again, Newhope+Dubro both use bombs, they can both easily kill anyone.

I wouldnt wanna go and poof 56k because he's blocking Hydro (something I never use :s)

 

 

 

Oh, and he does have ICD - I guess you could put a community patrol watch on the hydro route and call them into action when you need them.

Edited April 9, 2012 by _iNvoKeD