asgnny Report post Posted November 29, 2010 Would it be possible to add a hidden modifier for break rates (something like that of EFE production rates)? If the rates are tweaked as required, small adjustments could be made as they become necessary. I'd imagine most fighters will claim that break rates are too high at any given point, factoring in the recency effect in recalling their last armor or weapon breakage. If break rates increase by e.g. 5%, this makes little difference to an individual, however spread across the entire EL economy, such a change is significant. Making it less likely for one to break armor after having broken the same before worries me a bit in that frequent users of armor (i.e. fighters) may experience lower relative break rates than the occasional armor users (i.e. mixer/gatherers). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
korrode Report post Posted November 29, 2010 Would it be possible to add a hidden modifier for break rates (something like that of EFE production rates)? Are you talking about a global modifier that can be adjusted that will affect the % chances of ever item to break globally? It already exists. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mufo Report post Posted November 29, 2010 (edited) Me n luci train alot of hours a day for a while now so we had a good idea of our usual breakrate; we have been experiencing a higher breakrate since update, combined me n luci have went through 400k in armor. i wonder if radu's #s are low due to less people training cause they were scared to break armor. we will continue to test and gather info. hmm actually i cant count degraded col ad full loss wasent thinking so not 400k maybe 250-300k then Edited November 29, 2010 by Mufo Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
luciferx Report post Posted November 29, 2010 (edited) Mufossa's number is a little low. All by myself I broke about 300k since last update. Edited November 29, 2010 by LuciferX Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
luciferx Report post Posted November 29, 2010 (edited) Over 100k of broken stoof today and i just started training 1 hour ago lol. its gonna be a loooong day Edited November 29, 2010 by LuciferX Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Entropy Report post Posted November 29, 2010 Unfortunately, the way the system worked (and still works) is that some people never break stuff, while others will break stuff at a higher chance, depending on attributes, armor, what they fight, etc. This is not really fair, so I want to make everyone to have a chance to break stuff, but reduce the chance for those who break stuff now. The chance will be based per hit vs armor/weapon degrade rate, not per anything else. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mufo Report post Posted November 29, 2010 does you're post mean there are more changes to come? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
forever Report post Posted November 29, 2010 I trained 3 sessions of Yeti's last night. 258 yeti's killed and only broke Damage Red Drag Cuisses. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Entropy Report post Posted November 29, 2010 Yes, there are more changes and tests, this was just a temporary hack thing. It takes a long time to balance it and make it fair for everyone. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
korrode Report post Posted November 29, 2010 (edited) EDIT: Just saw Radu's above post. good to know the balancing continues. I trained 3 sessions of Yeti's last night. 258 yeti's killed and only broke Damage Red Drag Cuisses. RDA cuisses are like 57kgc, so you've had a 28500gc loss, each full load of HE/SR is at least 4kgc, so that's at least 40,500gc down... how much gc did you gain across your 3 sessions? If you were training (i.e. fleeing), then i'm guessing you've done little better than broke even across your Yeti sessions. I farmed Yeti today and trained Trice and degraded my JS doing it, and i've been listening to what others are saying... I'm not jumping to conclusions until we've had more days of testing but, as it stands, it's looking like either breaks will have to come down more or gc drops will have to come up, especially on mobs that crit-hit heaps. Edited November 29, 2010 by Korrode Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mufo Report post Posted November 29, 2010 (edited) my concern is this, i train alot more then the average player , it seems to me someone in my posotion would be at a serious diadvantage with this system, im am excited to keep helping test though to help find a happy medium for everyone Edited November 29, 2010 by Mufo Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
forever Report post Posted November 29, 2010 I made approx 28k~ in drops and then the bones to go with it. So I broke even or a little under I'd say. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dilly Report post Posted November 30, 2010 (edited) Unfortunately, the way the system worked (and still works) is that some people never break stuff, while others will break stuff at a higher chance, depending on attributes, armor, what they fight, etc. This is not really fair, so I want to make everyone to have a chance to break stuff, but reduce the chance for those who break stuff now. The chance will be based per hit vs armor/weapon degrade rate, not per anything else. Just out of curiosity: I always figured the uneven chance to break stuff was in line with the apparent uneven chance for someone to find a rare stone while harvesting, or to mix a rare item (some chars seem to be luckier or unluckier with that just as well). Does this change mark the start of more changes to balance the other 'luck' factors out as well? Edited November 30, 2010 by Dilly Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Entropy Report post Posted November 30, 2010 Nope, totally separated things. The chance of making special items is the same for everyone (except for astrology and the Artificer perk, of course). Same with the chance to find rare stuff when harvesting (although some lower levels won't find them). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
revi Report post Posted November 30, 2010 From what you said earlier, I got the impression that the low break rate on armor and weapons for some players was due to their choice of monsters to fight, in combination with the armor and weapons they picked. If this is indeed what you said, why would break rates need to be increased for those players? (Given that they also get probably less experience and less drops (=less income from training). This could mean that 'careful' players get penalised wrt. risk takers, who already tend to advance faster in experience at the cost of more equipment (and other resources). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ProHibited Report post Posted November 30, 2010 (edited) Previously we were able to use toughness to reduce damage and breaks. Now that breaks are hardly affected by toughness the attribute seems a bit worthless really.. I personally choose to invest in toughness to reduce breaks mainly, if you take it to reduce damage there are other attributes you can take that will have the same effect on #heals required to sustain health. I did the n00b instance on 48 toughness char and still broke armor, he gets hit 85% of the time and with this new update he and any similar build will not be able to tank. If you are no tank the toughness is kinda useless... This change will affect the way chars are build alot. The new way to get little breaks seems to be using a def build, giving those who were able to 'afk' train before a huge advantage in normal training anyway. Also, this change will make higher-then-normal monster training financially impossible due to breakages. Take for example instances where a player not near or at the upper cap tries to tank... Auch! #edit: the original char I started on pk with 100 a/d now suddenly becomes good again, his build was NOT taking into account breakages, just hitting as much as possible and having good magic. Every change can be used to your advantage... Edited November 30, 2010 by ProHibited Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nathanstenzel Report post Posted November 30, 2010 (edited) Previously we were able to use toughness to reduce damage and breaks. Now that breaks are hardly affected by toughness the attribute seems a bit worthless really.. I personally choose to invest in toughness to reduce breaks mainly, if you take it to reduce damage there are other attributes you can take that will have the same effect on #heals required to sustain health. I did the n00b instance on 48 toughness char and still broke armor, he gets hit 85% of the time and with this new update he and any similar build will not be able to tank. If you are no tank the toughness is kinda useless... This change will affect the way chars are build alot. The new way to get little breaks seems to be using a def build, giving those who were able to 'afk' train before a huge advantage in normal training anyway. Also, this change will make higher-then-normal monster training financially impossible due to breakages. Take for example instances where a player not near or at the upper cap tries to tank... Auch! #edit: the original char I started on pk with 100 a/d now suddenly becomes good again, his build was NOT taking into account breakages, just hitting as much as possible and having good magic. Every change can be used to your advantage... I think Radu likes to change the character building trends from time to time. That is the impression that I have gotten. I imagine it may be annoying to have people over-think the entire character build. Edited November 30, 2010 by nathanstenzel Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Entropy Report post Posted November 30, 2010 Previously we were able to use toughness to reduce damage and breaks. Now that breaks are hardly affected by toughness the attribute seems a bit worthless really.. I personally choose to invest in toughness to reduce breaks mainly, if you take it to reduce damage there are other attributes you can take that will have the same effect on #heals required to sustain health. I did the n00b instance on 48 toughness char and still broke armor, he gets hit 85% of the time and with this new update he and any similar build will not be able to tank. If you are no tank the toughness is kinda useless... This change will affect the way chars are build alot. The new way to get little breaks seems to be using a def build, giving those who were able to 'afk' train before a huge advantage in normal training anyway. Also, this change will make higher-then-normal monster training financially impossible due to breakages. Take for example instances where a player not near or at the upper cap tries to tank... Auch! #edit: the original char I started on pk with 100 a/d now suddenly becomes good again, his build was NOT taking into account breakages, just hitting as much as possible and having good magic. Every change can be used to your advantage... Toughness still plays (and will play) the most important role in armor breaks. Except, of course, for the attributes that cause you not to get hit in the first place. From what you said earlier, I got the impression that the low break rate on armor and weapons for some players was due to their choice of monsters to fight, in combination with the armor and weapons they picked. If this is indeed what you said, why would break rates need to be increased for those players? (Given that they also get probably less experience and less drops (=less income from training). This could mean that 'careful' players get penalised wrt. risk takers, who already tend to advance faster in experience at the cost of more equipment (and other resources). It's much more complex than that. Ask Korrode, he can explain it to you. The idea is not to penalize anyone, the idea is to even out the breaks a bit and not to penalize those who train too much (or train on harder monsters). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
korrode Report post Posted November 30, 2010 From what you said earlier, I got the impression that the low break rate on armor and weapons for some players was due to their choice of monsters to fight, in combination with the armor and weapons they picked. If this is indeed what you said, why would break rates need to be increased for those players? (Given that they also get probably less experience and less drops (=less income from training). This could mean that 'careful' players get penalised wrt. risk takers, who already tend to advance faster in experience at the cost of more equipment (and other resources). It's much more complex than that. Ask Korrode, he can explain it to you. Looking at your earlier post: Unfortunately, the way the system worked (and still works) is that some people never break stuff, while others will break stuff at a higher chance, depending on attributes, armor, what they fight, etc.This is not really fair, so I want to make everyone to have a chance to break stuff, but reduce the chance for those who break stuff now. The chance will be based per hit vs armor/weapon degrade rate, not per anything else. ...i assume the current system that I have knowledge of will soon be obsolete...? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
isk Report post Posted November 30, 2010 After degrading jagged sabre yesterday, sold it and bought another one to go on instance, 1/2 through first wave of achim and degrade the new one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
korrode Report post Posted November 30, 2010 After degrading jagged sabre yesterday, sold it and bought another one to go on instance, 1/2 through first wave of achim and degrade the new one. Even those of us who used to break no armor before still did break weapons. I speculate that weapons have a chance to break both when we get hit and when we hit opponents. Considering this, maybe some revision to their break chances isn't a bad idea. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Entropy Report post Posted December 1, 2010 ...i assume the current system that I have knowledge of will soon be obsolete...? Won't be obsolete, just made more fair. If your armor absorbs all the damage you will get a lower than now chance to break your stuff (protecting those training stuff over their level), and if the armor doesn't absorb all the damage you will have a higher than now, but lower than those whose armor absorbs all the damage. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nathanstenzel Report post Posted December 1, 2010 ...i assume the current system that I have knowledge of will soon be obsolete...? Won't be obsolete, just made more fair. If your armor absorbs all the damage you will get a lower than now chance to break your stuff (protecting those training stuff over their level), and if the armor doesn't absorb all the damage you will have a higher than now, but lower than those whose armor absorbs all the damage. So, the trend of newbs in dragon gear to mega-train on critters near their level or a little over will continue and perhaps be encouraged? (not up to par right now, but I think I get the idea) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZootNerper Report post Posted December 1, 2010 What I did not like about the critical damage adjustment is that it was not mentioned on the server update web page. The update had a major effect on people's pocket. The achievements system was mentioned but in reality affects no one, except maybe in pride. Could we have future changes to the critical damage system (or other fighting/harv'ing/mixing/etc systems) notified on the server update page so that people can be aware of something changing and make adjustments. Then they could start making notes of how it is affecting them and reporting back on the effectiveness of the change. -- Zoot Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nathanstenzel Report post Posted December 1, 2010 (edited) @zootnerper: of course, knowledge of a change affects the results of a change. Edited December 1, 2010 by nathanstenzel Share this post Link to post Share on other sites