Guild Storage (for events)

[MichelAngelo]

Hi all,

 

I was just thinking about a new guild event when I realised something I would want to do isn't possible in the game and I thought I'd share it with the community.

 

For starters, let's keep in mind the fact that during an event that lasts a couple of hours people log off/log on

 

The problem I encoutered was, control of the work-flow (keeping track of the work that has been done and needs to be done).

 

Now let's say we would like to make the most effectieve use of each of the participants skills, the one with the most xp in harvesting should do the harvesting the one with the biggest EMU should carry stuff around.

If we needed for the guild event to make some bars we would most likely assign partial projects to small groups of guildies, iow, we would need a group to harvest the ing's for FE and another group would harvest ore and coal.

For food supply we might chose feasting potions, yet another group gets that job etcetc.

 

The only way we can keep track of the amount of work done and the amount of work still to do is for each members to constantly gm/pm their personall stats to the event-coordinator who should keep track of everything on paper/online.

Because of the amount of ing's we can's only use bags but need a bigger place to store (storage), atm the only way is for each guild-member to use their personall storage and keep track of everything they put into this for the guild (and the EC keeps track of this also...)

I don't even wish to describe the consequences it has when a muler suddenly loggs of/loses connection...

 

Now that we finally have all the ing's we need in storages we can start making things, but first we should get the right amount of ing's to the right persons, without Iron nobody can make Iron bars, same goes for food....it's a huge trade-session within the guild...

Now we can finally start making the bars, if we would want to make items out of the bars the same misery starts all over again, it's no fun being the EC anymore....

So, all-in-all the proces is very hard to control and require's a lot of communication about reallocating ing's while a guild-event IMO should be fun to do, get a task, focus on that and start chatting about how lovely the sunset looks in DP and why MN only seems to be pissed off at MrZ...

 

We (I) now have the problem described, so what would be a solution to this problem?

 

(Another thing we should keep in mind, a character can only be in 1 guild at any given time).

 

IMHO, the most logical solution for this would be, if each guild has it's own storage.

Each member of a guild could (!) be given acces to the guild-storage to add or remove items (and keep a log-file for, let's say, the last 2 days)

 

Now, when a muler comes into storage he/she transfers the items he carries to his personal storage and/or opens up the guild storage and put the items in there (or first put it into personal storage and transfer it from there to guild-storage, whatever is possible for the software)

The GM should be the one to give out rights for this (could be part of the guild ranking system), everyone could see what the guild has in storage and how far the progression is (with #sto) for the current (event)goals.

 

This would make coordinating guilde-events far more easy and it would even be possible to do events that are spreead out over a number of days or even weeks (months, years.....decade's... :-) you get the point) something like, on day 1 we harvest all the ing's for bars and on day two, misterX loggs on (the guilds high level alchemist) makes the bars and on day three femaleY loggs on (the guild high level manu) and creates the desired items.

 

I think this reflects reality far more and because it's more easy to do long-term projects it makes it more interesting for people to join or participate in a guild and thus making the gaming-community even more close or at least have more interaction with each other.

(and hosting more complex events would be much more easy to do)

 

I'd say we should do a poll for the desired wish to have some sort of guild-storage (not being a bot) that can easily be accesed by members of that guild.

 

I'd appreciate thoughts/comments etc on this idea and the point of view from the developers,

 

Regards, MichelAngelo (ingame)

[revi]

Looks like a nice idea

 

BUT, before starting a poll, I think there's at least one point that should be addressed:

How are you going to avoid abusing this for transfers between alts (and thus violating rule 5)?

 

I'm thinking here of the recent posts in bans section, where several alts were in the same guild.

This possibility in itself might be enough of a problem to stop implementation before it starts

 

Keep in mind that you cannot see from the characters whether two or more are controlled by the same player.

And please, don't say it's the guild master's responsibility to see to it that this feature won't be abused...

 

Also, why can't you use a bot as guild storage? (you mention it should not be a bot, without explaining why not)

I can see a few ways in which you could have a bot:

- control who can put in stuff, and who can take it out

- how much every participant put in or took out

- how much of the final result every participant is entitled to

 

After all, bookkeeping and data crunching is what computers are for...

 

Regards,

revi

[KoDdy]

or just do guild storage , every guild member - rank 10? or command allowed from GM could add and withdraw stuff with log of he added / withdrawed?

Edited October 21, 2010 by KoDdy

[ProHibited]

One new tab in the normal storage that links trough to the guild storage. All members can donate but only those with rank > xx can withdraw items.

[KoDdy]

One new tab in the normal storage that links trough to the guild storage. All members can donate but only those with rank > xx can withdraw items.

 

ye, thought the same, or maybe not do that different compounds 1. will be withdraw-able with ranks xx and one with all members can add-donate to it

[MichelAngelo]

Looks like a nice idea

 

BUT, before starting a poll, I think there's at least one point that should be addressed:

How are you going to avoid abusing this for transfers between alts (and thus violating rule 5)?

 

I'm thinking here of the recent posts in bans section, where several alts were in the same guild.

This possibility in itself might be enough of a problem to stop implementation before it starts

Simple answer, you can't avoid this, but in the current situation you can't either (while using a bot or a guild-member as 'guild-storage').

So could this happen, Yes, is it a setback to the current situation, No

But nevertheless, if you truely want to avoid this situation the players should be able to 'mark' their characters as alts and then you could make the software in such a way only 1 character (alt) has the ability to have acces to guild storage (with a change cooldown of 1 RL-day or something like that).

That would require the playerbase to be active involved in the alt-problem and a change in the rules would be required, "Alts are allowed, but only if the player marks them as alts from his main (personal) ID and keeps to other alt-involved rulings etcetc..."

 

Keep in mind that you cannot see from the characters whether two or more are controlled by the same player.

And please, don't say it's the guild master's responsibility to see to it that this feature won't be abused...

I don't but as I said before it's not like this can't happen in the current situation.

 

Also, why can't you use a bot as guild storage? (you mention it should not be a bot, without explaining why not)

I can see a few ways in which you could have a bot:

- control who can put in stuff, and who can take it out

- how much every participant put in or took out

- how much of the final result every participant is entitled to

Bots can be in one place only at a time, you might want to use both C1 and C2 maps in your event

Only the owner can see what has been put in and/or taken out by who (or you should start handing out login combinations, that's not something you should want to do)

A bot is limited in it's storage-capacity and can't (rules) actively participate in guild events (just try to set the guild task to make, ehmmm 100 iron swords, the bot simply can't carry that much (basic) ing's and he is not allowed to stay next to storage for well...4 or 5 hours trading with guildies and using his (her?) personal storage (besides from the fact the owner has to be on for the whole event, even if that would take multiple days, EL has a world-wide community and no 'real' starting or ending time).

 

After all, bookkeeping and data crunching is what computers are for...

 

Regards,

revi

 

Couldn't agree more with you, thanks for your thoughts on the subject, MichelAngelo

[learg]

Why don't change all guild storage bots for guild sto with acces via all storage NPC by all guildies? Some ppl could tell that Radu will loose $ from guild sto bots. So it could be a buyable option. Fee could be like as for normal guild bot. And as you told before: all members could see and donate items but only guildies with permission could withdraw sth. It could be a window where GM or one of The Elder could write who, what and how much can withdraw.

Edited October 21, 2010 by learg

[Elf_Ninja]

Also, why can't you use a bot as guild storage? (you mention it should not be a bot, without explaining why not)

I can see a few ways in which you could have a bot:

- control who can put in stuff, and who can take it out

- how much every participant put in or took out

- how much of the final result every participant is entitled to

Bots can be in one place only at a time, you might want to use both C1 and C2 maps in your event

Only the owner can see what has been put in and/or taken out by who (or you should start handing out login combinations, that's not something you should want to do)

A bot is limited in it's storage-capacity and can't (rules) actively participate in guild events (just try to set the guild task to make, ehmmm 100 iron swords, the bot simply can't carry that much (basic) ing's and he is not allowed to stay next to storage for well...4 or 5 hours trading with guildies and using his (her?) personal storage (besides from the fact the owner has to be on for the whole event, even if that would take multiple days, EL has a world-wide community and no 'real' starting or ending time).

 

1.Guild Storage bots are actually placed near a Storage NPC so there is no storage capacity issue. Except for the 300 slots.

 

2.If you use a service like Dogbreath's you can hand out a guild storage username and password so that guild members can see what is currently available in the Storage bots inventory on a webpage based on the limits set buy the guild leaders. Things can be put on reserve so that only certain people can access them and guild ranks can be set on the bot's member page as well.

 

3.Multiple leaders can be give access to the bot's user page with unique user/pass to allow for difference in time zones and flow of projects to continue with out having to have one person online.

 

4. True the bot cannot move from the NPC storage area(unless you pay to move it to a different one) and can only be logged in for a short amount of time but it has worked fairly well for our guild projects in the past. People can come in and get stuff off and put stuff on with out leaders having to be on and logs are created to track donations etc.

[nicktehbrick]

Hello everyone,

 

I think this would be a great idea, especially with a larger guild,

but as mentioned there is room for abuse.

 

However, people abuse the current system, but we still allow trades between people.

(blowing it out of proportion in the other way)

I don't see why we need to give up on the idea for just this reason.

 

However there would need to be decisions made about who can access, what rank/etc,

and is there might be some discussion as whether items should be tracked, etc.

 

The suggested alternative is guild storage bots, but I think the idea here was to

avoid spending the money and time to set it up and run it. However each person

feels about this can vary so... yeah. Personally I already have 1 bot and it's

plenty enough to manage.

 

I guess it's a good idea, just some major issues to work out.

[MichelAngelo]

Hi all,

 

Now that the dust from the big scam this week has settled I just wanted to point out that I thought about the safety-aspect as well in relation with the guild-storage and the answers/replies I got stating a bot could also be used for this.

 

Just look at the LNX-guild project and the big moneydrain from bots in general.

The point I would like to make is, if there was something like a real 'guild'-storage (as a part of the storage in the EL game) with ranks for depositing/withdrawing and perhaps a verifing-system (if withdrawel is >10kgc someone else from the guild has to 'sign'/OK for it) the problem that the LNX-guild faces now might not have happened or would at least not have been this big.

 

>mind you, as I stated before, a perfect system doesn't exist<

 

Nevertheless, this sure makes a big statement for having a Guild-storage within the EL-game itself and not via a Bot or any other 3rd-party software.

 

Regards, MichelAngelo