Jump to content
Eternal Lands Official Forums
Sign in to follow this  
Starlite

Instance drops

Recommended Posts

in fact one could maybe discuss if it would be interesting for the gameplay to find or not find trust in teammates as stated, BUT:

 

if on a normal evening (weekend even) you hardly get 5-8 players for an instance

or

if we have new monsters introduced who can only be tanked by 1-3 chars in the whole game

 

then there is no point in that, because you rarely have an alternative.

 

There are alot of possible small improvements to the game which would raise fun and encouragement for the players without changing anything on the game balance, i cant see why someone would argue against them, really. Really.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
if we have new monsters introduced who can only be tanked by 1-3 chars in the whole game

 

then there is no point in that, because you rarely have an alternative.

Maybe trying another strategy would be a solution ? Maybe training your char, or helping somebody you trust to be able to tank ?

I think that fixing something that isn't broken is not the right way to go.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm fine with a player being able to be 'the bad guy' if they choose to be, in fact i'm for it, but allowing them to be such and, so long as they keep their mouth shut, have a 100% guarantee that no one will ever find out about it, thus having no chance of copping consequences for their deeds, is just lame.
Why is it lame ? .. Somehow i don't get how you mean it. So you say, you're fine with someone being "evil", but does it really mean that "evil" is only about bagjumping/serping/scamming ?

I think that this behavior (saying nothing about the drops in instances/etc) is fully in the scope of playing "evil" ...

It sounds to me that he is saying "evil is only acceptable and allowed only if that person can be held up to public disdain, scorn, and retaliation."

However the good deeds done ingame or the people doing them aren't always announced either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I don't think you want to go there with me. There are plenty of things I can point fingers your way at that one could ask the same question and argue the same points.

Please feel free to point away.

None of my bad deeds are secret, they're all right out there... that's part of the point.

I can't think of a time that I've ever done anything along the lines of 'secretly ripping off teammates'. I may be a lot of things, but i'm no scammer.

You enable others to circumvent and hide which has immense impact on the honorable players you now claim to protect.

Oh damn, so you've heard about the private section of the unofficial forums that guests can't see... oh wait, there isn't one.

I don't see how I enable anyone to circumvent or hide. Please give me more details, because if I am enabling such things, I'd like to address it.

 

 

You mistake heated debate with bullying.

You stated your opinion, I rebutted it and questioned for further details on how you reached your current viewpoint, if you're unwilling to continue discussing the issue you haven't been bullied, you just have no refutation.

I do and it has been stated. No need to keep stating it.

Well the reasoning I've seen you state is this:

That is part of the risk and adventure of going on an instance.

It also will foster bonding as a team for that current instance and future ones.

 

Same for fighting any creature. It's part of the game: the risk, gamble, adventure, trust or lack of it, bonding and teamwork or lack of it. If you want safety nets all the time, you are in the wrong place in the wrong game.

I put to you: how would having the drops known by all instance members negatively impact the risk, adventure, gamble, teamwork or bonding experience that an instance team will experience?

 

 

Why is it lame ? .. Somehow i don't get how you mean it. So you say, you're fine with someone being "evil", but does it really mean that "evil" is only about bagjumping/serping/scamming ?

I think that this behavior (saying nothing about the drops in instances/etc) is fully in the scope of playing "evil" ...

It sounds to me that he is saying "evil is only acceptable and allowed only if that person can be held up to public disdain, scorn, and retaliation."

However the good deeds done ingame or the people doing them aren't always announced either.

That actually is generally what I'm saying.

Not all good deeds are announced somewhere for most of EL's population to see, but the beneficiary of the good deed knows who helped them.

If someone gets their deathbag returned, they know who returned it.

If someone gets some equipment or gc given to them when they're in a tough spot, they know who helped them out.

 

However, when someone steals instance drops, not even those directly involved in the instance know about it, let alone all of EL.

Even bagjumping db's has the inherent risk of being seen, at any time someone could show up and see you on the bag... but there is no risk at all for a person who gets the instance monster db to unfairly distribute the drops.

Edited by Korrode

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

first of all i dont see how your usual dispute helps us with this topic, Korrode and Aislinn.

 

second

if we have new monsters introduced who can only be tanked by 1-3 chars in the whole game

 

then there is no point in that, because you rarely have an alternative.

Maybe trying another strategy would be a solution ? Maybe training your char, or helping somebody you trust to be able to tank ?

I think that fixing something that isn't broken is not the right way to go.

 

thats really funny. i just yesterday helped killing a castellan with a team and it wasnt the first.

Implying i could train my char up to ATAs or similar chars is just ridiculous. Dont get me wrong, i really respect those chars (and some of their owners), but its not an option except i start buying chars. And i train everyday already.

I still have to see you, groomsh, and aislinn at a castellan fight, will be interesting to watch, pls tell me when you demonstrate your skills there.

It takes some gc investing to kill one, so if you cant refinance at least a good part of it, you wont start fighting it at all.....

Edited by Gilrain

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I still have to see you, groomsh, and aislinn at a castellan fight, will be interesting to watch, pls tell me when you demonstrate your skills there.

It takes some gc investing to kill one, so if you cant refinance at least a good part of it, you wont start fighting it at all.....

I already helped killing one :icon13:

I know that i only shoot PK arrows and helped healing the tanks, but i was there...

Imho i think the drops are really good and DO cover the resources used to kill it and could finance even more expensive ways of dealing with it.

What you're talking about is just maximizing the loot and that's a thing i don't consider to be the most funny part in killing a castellan.

I don't even count on getting a big loot when doing instances or team fight like castellan, i don't care that much about gc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What you're talking about is just maximizing the loot and that's a thing i don't consider to be the most funny part in killing a castellan.

I don't even count on getting a big loot when doing instances or team fight like castellan, i don't care that much about gc.

 

its not about maximizing, i currently own 40k gc. When i went to the castellan the day before yesterday, i had ~20k only, which i bought pk arrows for. After the fight (before sharing) i had ~ 0 gc.

The 40k i have now are basically from an instance yesterday night. I still miss some gc to replace my scythe and black dragon greaves that broke in the instances before.

What i am trying to say is: if the game mechanics dont reward you (at least a bit) for playing (in invasions, in instances etc), then something is wrong imho. Ever wondered why many players tend to prefer training while others fight in invasions ? The loot sharing problem is annoying for everyone, so lets find a solution pls.

 

regards

Edited by Gilrain

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What i am trying to say is: if the game mechanics dont reward you (at least a bit) for playing (in invasions, in instances etc), then something is wrong imho.
I see what you are trying to say and i agree that you should get some sort of reward, but i really don't think that it's a problem in system if somebody is not willing to share the loot.

It's easily fixed by picking the right team.

What i see as "wrong" on this suggestion is that it tries to replace team work/guild building/social interaction with system written in stone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What i am trying to say is: if the game mechanics dont reward you (at least a bit) for playing (in invasions, in instances etc), then something is wrong imho.
I see what you are trying to say and i agree that you should get some sort of reward, but i really don't think that it's a problem in system if somebody is not willing to share the loot.

It's easily fixed by picking the right team.

What i see as "wrong" on this suggestion is that it tries to replace team work/guild building/social interaction with system written in stone.

 

groomsh u are totally wrong here, i can ´t even believe that 1 player that tanks the monster controls the drops, it is unacceptable. Maybe if someone plays that char for 3 years and you know him u feel that u can trust him , what wll happen tho if he sells char to someone else (since buying /sell chars is not illegal)? and that is only 1 case.

The game lacks a team mode and it cannot be replaced by good intetions betweens players, the drops are really good from castys and to kill it you need team work. Same thing happens to archers because the current drop system doesnt allow them - even if the do greater damage - to take the bag.

 

Game should evolve it needs team/party mode

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I see what you are trying to say and i agree that you should get some sort of reward, but i really don't think that it's a problem in system if somebody is not willing to share the loot.

The suggestion at hand will still allow people to be unwilling to share the loot, they just won't be able to lie about the loot itself so they walk away looking squeaky clean when they've just scammed their team.

 

Nonetheless, I personally think a 'proper' team/party system where loot is shared by the game would be best, but at least the suggested "drop list in local" idea would be an improvement, and still caters for your viewpoint that people should be able to be unwilling to share loot.

Edited by Korrode

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
groomsh u are totally wrong here, i can ´t even believe that 1 player that tanks the monster controls the drops, it is unacceptable. Maybe if someone plays that char for 3 years and you know him u feel that u can trust him , what wll happen tho if he sells char to someone else (since buying /sell chars is not illegal)? and that is only 1 case.

The game lacks a team mode and it cannot be replaced by good intetions betweens players, the drops are really good from castys and to kill it you need team work. Same thing happens to archers because the current drop system doesnt allow them - even if the do greater damage - to take the bag.

 

Game should evolve it needs team/party mode

Usually if somebody sells the char, he says about it in forums or in public (at least the "high end" chars).

Well i think it can and should be replaced with trust - This is something why we have guild system in the first place, at least that's my impression.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Well i think it can and should be replaced with trust - This is something why we have guild system in the first place, at least that's my impression.

 

until we can trust each other and go to instances or fight big monsters - including new players that do instances and dont have the time to meet/socialize/trust with all players - shouldnt there be a proper system?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

--------------------------------

The drop of final mob in instance, or castellan, could be serverside spammed in the instance channel, or in the channel that has active the one who receives the drop in Casty.

--------------------------------

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What i am trying to say is: if the game mechanics dont reward you (at least a bit) for playing (in invasions, in instances etc), then something is wrong imho.
I see what you are trying to say and i agree that you should get some sort of reward, but i really don't think that it's a problem in system if somebody is not willing to share the loot.

It's easily fixed by picking the right team.

What i see as "wrong" on this suggestion is that it tries to replace team work/guild building/social interaction with system written in stone.

Groomsh is dead on with this. There IS a reward, your job is to pick a trustworthy team to go with. (And yes, I have done a couple instances and I had no problem trusting my team. And you know what? It was still fun, even if somebody did hold something back, which I am pretty sure did not happen. And you know what else? If the team I was invited to was comprised of a bunch of known problems, I wouldn't have gone. I also would not have blamed the game for that and called it a faulty system because I was cheated out of not going on an instance because I didn't like the team. This is part of the game!!!!)

 

 

groomsh u are totally wrong here, i can ´t even believe that 1 player that tanks the monster controls the drops, it is unacceptable. Maybe if someone plays that char for 3 years and you know him u feel that u can trust him , what wll happen tho if he sells char to someone else (since buying /sell chars is not illegal)? and that is only 1 case.

The game lacks a team mode and it cannot be replaced by good intetions betweens players, the drops are really good from castys and to kill it you need team work. Same thing happens to archers because the current drop system doesnt allow them - even if the do greater damage - to take the bag.

 

Game should evolve it needs team/party mode

Usually if somebody sells the char, he says about it in forums or in public (at least the "high end" chars).

Well i think it can and should be replaced with trust - This is something why we have guild system in the first place, at least that's my impression.

Groomsh is right on again. Part of a mmorpg is relating with people and interacting, both good and bad. That IS what the guild system is for. Not the game's fault it's totally abused.

 

 

Well i think it can and should be replaced with trust - This is something why we have guild system in the first place, at least that's my impression.

 

until we can trust each other and go to instances or fight big monsters - including new players that do instances and dont have the time to meet/socialize/trust with all players - shouldnt there be a proper system?

New players in an instance? What is the minimum level needed again? You can't meet people by level 60 a/d ?!

 

 

One thing I don't like about this suggestion is it is basically trying to hammer morals into people by trying to force the issue with game mechanics. I don't like selective morality. I would have a much better list of things to change if that was the goal of this game. Please remember that good or bad judgement is in your hands, it is not the game's job to save you from your lack of it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I also would not have blamed the game for that and called it a faulty system because I was cheated out of not going on an instance because I didn't like the team. This is part of the game!!!!

Why does it have to be?

Having the game mechanics increase the amount of suitable instance partners wouldn't be a bad thing... especially considering the (relatively) low population of EL.

Every modern, fantasy MMORPG I've played other than EL (which isn't heaps, but a few) has a 'party' system in place as well as a guild system and i've always found the party system to be a very useful compliment to the guild system, not having it would have made all those games 'worse' than they are.

 

Do you really think EL is so different that it somehow won't get the same benefit?

 

These types of party systems are infrastructure for fast fun. If there's a bunch of you around, it's easy to team up and go do a fun, short-term activity. An instance isn't something that is a months long large-scale activity where each participant is going to put huge amounts of their net EL worth on the line... It's just an instance. All having 'trust' as a prerequisite to instance team creation does is reduce the amount of opportunities people will get to be having fun doing instances.

Edited by Korrode

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I also would not have blamed the game for that and called it a faulty system because I was cheated out of not going on an instance because I didn't like the team. This is part of the game!!!!

Why does it have to be?

Game creator's choice?

 

Why does anything "have to be"? It doesn't. But every step in game design requires a choice to be made. Why do we have a medieval theme? Why aren't there classes? Why aren't there safe bags? Why isn't it coded to not let somebody serp?

 

Sometimes YOUR opinion on "best" which is dependent on YOUR gameplay style of preference, is not what somebody else sees as "best". Just because "other games do it" isn't a valid reason. Sure some things that other games do are great, I don't argue that, nor do I claim things that other games do should be avoided just because other games do them. BUT: if the person making the game isn't interested in a certain feature of those other games, it won't matter if the pope does it.

 

My personal opinion is that EL caters too much to instant gratification. I don't like that. The game was supposed to be the actual journey to getting "l33t". It was supposed to be about goals and reaching them, not having them at a drop of the hat. It is supposed to be about interaction, dealing with people good and bad and making choices based on that. It is about learning to work around the intended hardships which include dealing with people, hence the mmorpg tag. Suggestions that just automate that aren't positive IN MY OPINION. (I can have one too, you know :) )

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm unaware of Radu's stance on the issue.

Obviously if he doesn't want it, irrelevant of the arguments for it's implementation, then it's not going to happen and the thread can be closed.

 

Do you have any response to the final paragraph of my last post? Rather than just jumping to a 'Radu (possibly?) doesn't want it so it must be bad' argument?

Edited by Korrode

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm unaware of Radu's stance on the issue.

Obviously if he doesn't want it, irrelevant of the arguments for it's implementation, then it's not going to happen and the thread can be closed.

 

Do you have any response to the final paragraph of my last post? Rather than just jumping to a 'Radu (possibly?) doesn't want it so it must be bad' argument?

Ummm he coded it? Why would he code things to function in ways he doesn't want? (Not withstanding bugs obviously) Nor is he obligated to comment here I might add. I will be happy to point him to this thread but he has no obligations to it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ummm he coded it? Why would he code things to function in ways he doesn't want? (Not withstanding bugs obviously) Nor is he obligated to comment here I might add. I will be happy to point him to this thread but he has no obligations to it.

Ummm he coded heaps of stuff that he added to and modified later.

Are you saying he shouldn't have put the instance system in place, or anything for that matter, until the system was 100% complete? :)

Not usually how "beta" works :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ummm he coded it? Why would he code things to function in ways he doesn't want? (Not withstanding bugs obviously) Nor is he obligated to comment here I might add. I will be happy to point him to this thread but he has no obligations to it.

Ummm he coded heaps of stuff that he added to and modified later.

Are you saying he shouldn't have put the instance system in place, or anything for that matter, until the system was 100% complete? :)

Not usually how "beta" works :)

Hmm my perspective shows that most things that are modified were usually because he hadn't taken into account how people can and will abuse just about anything they can find ways to abuse. :) (Again, bugs obviously will require modification and should not be taken into account)

And yes, things do get modified and should get modified if wanted or needed. I guess this is more of a question of his intent.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

instances are a very good addition to the game.

Loot sharing is a problem that is inherent to instance runs and its not yet solved in EL probably because it just wasnt done.

I cant see why we must discuss all these general good and evil and whatever things which are completely offtopic and only lead to nothing except a bad attitude to a good proposal (announcing loot in local chat).

 

regards

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
instances are a very good addition to the game.
Umm yes. Who said they aren't?

 

Loot sharing is a problem that is inherent to instance runs and its not yet solved in EL probably because it just wasnt done.
Maybe it wasn't considered a problem so there was no need to "solve" anything. This is a common theme in suggestions, assuming things that aren't the way a certain player wants it are automatically bugs or problems.

 

I cant see why we must discuss all these general good and evil and whatever things which are completely offtopic and only lead to nothing except a bad attitude to a good proposal (announcing loot in local chat).
It is very much on topic. And again, it's a good proposal to YOU but that doesn't mean it's good to everyone else. And others have posted saying as such. So "everyone" does not feel it's a problem.

 

 

Again, I will direct ent to this thread. I can't do more than that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
groomsh u are totally wrong here, i can ´t even believe that 1 player that tanks the monster controls the drops, it is unacceptable. Maybe if someone plays that char for 3 years and you know him u feel that u can trust him , what wll happen tho if he sells char to someone else (since buying /sell chars is not illegal)? and that is only 1 case.

The game lacks a team mode and it cannot be replaced by good intetions betweens players, the drops are really good from castys and to kill it you need team work. Same thing happens to archers because the current drop system doesnt allow them - even if the do greater damage - to take the bag.

 

Game should evolve it needs team/party mode

Usually if somebody sells the char, he says about it in forums or in public (at least the "high end" chars).

Well i think it can and should be replaced with trust - This is something why we have guild system in the first place, at least that's my impression.

Groomsh is right on again. Part of a mmorpg is relating with people and interacting, both good and bad. That IS what the guild system is for. Not the game's fault it's totally abused.

 

 

Well i think it can and should be replaced with trust - This is something why we have guild system in the first place, at least that's my impression.

 

until we can trust each other and go to instances or fight big monsters - including new players that do instances and dont have the time to meet/socialize/trust with all players - shouldnt there be a proper system?

New players in an instance? What is the minimum level needed again? You can't meet people by level 60 a/d ?!

 

 

One thing I don't like about this suggestion is it is basically trying to hammer morals into people by trying to force the issue with game mechanics. I don't like selective morality. I would have a much better list of things to change if that was the goal of this game. Please remember that good or bad judgement is in your hands, it is not the game's job to save you from your lack of it.

 

Yes u are right, ignorance is happyness , as long as i will never find out what drops are because the tank who takes them doesnt tell what the actual drops are , he didn't abuse the drops. :)

So many other MMORPG that are far more populated and guilds actually play a part in the game are mistaken. :)

 

And yet again there are so many 60s a/d that know each other in the game that is perfectly normal for a 60-80s a/d to be made in game. EL has only this server yes? I am not playing somewhere else

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Out of curiosity, how is loot sharing in party systems in other mmo's done?

Depends on the game, but a few i've seen if you are in a party you have to be within a certain radius of the party. Then any monsters you kill the drops are split up among the party members as determined by the server. I've even seen it where it announces in your team chat what each person gets ie:

Raytray gets a steel two edge

Aislinn gets 200 gc

etc.

one problem I've seen with this is it defiantly sets a game value for everydropped item.

 

Some also split the XP earned but those are games that you only get xp for the monster once you've killed it which is different then the system in EL.

 

Party system in EL would be interesting but i'm not sure how it would really work, would be nice if interguild players summons didn't attack team members in pk areas.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×