bug in dp arena 40 ad

[korrode]

Yes, that is a valid point. How do you suggest to address this issue?

 

Well, making the arena non-exploitable sounds best to me, in which case:

So, simple solution; the ND zone needs to extend a bit further.

or

Right before damage is applied to an entity from ranging the following could be done:

IF damage receiver is player AND IF damage receiver's location is non-pk THEN do not apply damage

If that check was always done as the very last thing before applying ranging damage, unless the server was under mass load, it should fix the problem

 

EDIT:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMC_2hFxIqA

Despite the risk of angering your G0dliness, I can't help but say; I can't fathom how you can consider that a "feature" and not a bug.

Edited June 9, 2010 by Korrode

[FeLkkU]

In the video you can also see that Choris is using shortbow+PK arrows which is the fastest combo and still Cronus dies 2 steps outside(although that video is made before ND zone was added).

Edited June 9, 2010 by FeLkkU

[Entropy]

When I asked what you propose, I meant regarding the

"who doesn't happen to hear about this exploit first, should have to learn about it the hard way"

.

As I was saying, I do not plan to change it, it's a nice feature so long as people are warned.

Anyway, we, the channel 6 committee, decided to give the warning in form of an NPC near the arena that will warn about it. This should encourage people to talk to NPCs in the game as well.

[Gilrain]

just a thought:

if you make a fence around the area so that it takes some seconds to leave when you walk that might help too. (like a queueing fence , dunno how you name that....)

[Raytray]

I raised this in the channel but left before I could see a response. - Could you make the no drop area around dpa (that isn't pk) more visible, by perhaps making the ground covered in straw or something similar?

 

Korrode, I believe this is a feature simply because it promotes ranging. I do not see any other benefits to the exploit.

[Ozmondius]

I have difficulty understanding how this "feature" encourages newer or even older players to pk. My understanding for the no drop and capped changes to the arenas was to encourage more people to experiment with pk. People go to these arenas with no rosto because it's a "no drop" arena. They feel some comfort that they can get some pk experience without losing their items or having ubber char's wipe them out in a few blows. Now what we have is a hybrid arrangement that serves none of what I thought were the intended purposes of the nd/capped arenas. Maybe my assumptions for their purpose are wrong.

Edited June 9, 2010 by Ozmondius

[korrode]

Maybe my assumptions for their purpose are wrong.

What were you thinking Oz!?

Assuming that a No-Drops Player-Killing arena meant that people wouldn't drop items when killed by players? eh???

 

 

Korrode, I believe this is a feature simply because it promotes ranging. I do not see any other benefits to the exploit.

Meh, ranging is plenty powerful as it is, it doesn't need this bug feature to exist for people to train it.

Edited June 9, 2010 by Korrode

[Entropy]

The arena is no drops. Outside of the arena isn't (except for a small portion).

There are multiple ways to safely exit the arena without the possibility of losing items.

There will be a NPC that will warn about it.

What is the problem?

[korrode]

It's possible to die to a player when you're in a non-PK area.

It's easy enough to misclick your flee and still walk outside that one little strip of ND non-PK area.

NPC or not, some people will still fall victim to it.

Why not just fix it so the ND PK arena is guaranteed to be ND when you're PK'ed?

[extrapolation]

Call it a bug or a feature, correct me if I'm wrong though, my guess is that these situations were not foreseen, not part of the original concept of encouraging PK by means of a no drop area. Since it wasn't a deliberate move, why are you so determined to leave it in place?? A 10 square thick no drop area around the arena would fix things, Korrode's idea of a check before applying arrow damage would fix things, or else there's at least the proposed compromise of not losing rostogols in no drop areas, which would mean people falling foul of this glitch would only lose a rosto instead of potentially 1Mgc.

 

I'm posting because there are human beings behind our characters, who get upset when weeks' worth of work goes down the drain. I care about them, and so should you. Players' happiness does matter to you, whether for benevolent or selfish reasons, in the latter case because a bigger player base means more shop sales.

[Entropy]

Call it a bug or a feature, correct me if I'm wrong though, my guess is that these situations were not foreseen, not part of the original concept of encouraging PK by means of a no drop area. Since it wasn't a deliberate move, why are you so determined to leave it in place?? A 10 square thick no drop area around the arena would fix things, Korrode's idea of a check before applying arrow damage would fix things, or else there's at least the proposed compromise of not losing rostogols in no drop areas, which would mean people falling foul of this glitch would only lose a rosto instead of potentially 1Mgc.

Like I said, I am considering the idea of making the NDD areas not eat rostos.

 

I'm posting because there are human beings behind our characters, who get upset when weeks' worth of work goes down the drain. I care about them, and so should you. Players' happiness does matter to you, whether for benevolent or selfish reasons, in the latter case because a bigger player base means more shop sales.

 

One man's fun is another's hell. Some people are unhappy, while others are very happy. The amount of happiness is constant.

It's like saying that the One perk should be removed, since it really makes a lot of people very unhappy (much more was lost due to that perk than from the DP arena thing).

[Entropy]

And while on this subject, remember the bitchings I got about "omfg, the PK is dead because there is no reward for killing people, since you sell rostos like a greedy capitalist"? You guys should really stick on one issue.

[korrode]

One man's fun is another's hell. Some people are unhappy, while others are very happy. The amount of happiness is constant.

It's well worth looking at the ratio.

How many people think this exploit is fun VS how many will be victims who are upset and think it's unfair.

 

Luckily, for now, I can count the amount of people regularly exploiting it on one hand... but the amount who're falling victim and think it unfair is ever rising. Would you be happy to keep say 5 people having fun while 20 aren't? how about 40? 100? how bad does the ratio have to get before the fun of the small few is disregarded in favour of the fun of the great many?

 

And while on this subject, remember the bitchings I got about "omfg, the PK is dead because there is no reward for killing people, since you sell rostos like a greedy capitalist"? You guys should really stick on one issue.

There's absolutely no way you'll be able to quote me ever saying anything that would promote a PK death penalty of dropping hundreds of thousands of gc worth of stuff.

Maybe other people have, but I've certainly haven't. ;p

[Entropy]

I didn't say it was you, but many people claimed that, at some point or another.

And regarding the ratio, well, the same thing can be said about the One perk.

[korrode]

For a person to end up with One perk, they must make a very conscious decision to goto the Wraith and get it.

Clicking one step too far amongst some high paced PK action and losing half you inv as a result isn't the same... not in my view anyways.

[extrapolation]

....while others are very happy...

 

Ok I apologise for not having considered this side of it before having a rant, and it's a valid point that the ingenuity of the person who discovered this merits a reward.

 

I still want to disagree with your statement that the overall total of happiness remains constant though. The hunter expects a possibility of some good drops, while the uninformed fighter gets a really nasty surprise, a surprise intensifies the feeling of loss so much that some are inclined to quit! I don't think it's good enough to say "you should have read the forums or talked to the NPC". Not everyone reads the forums, and there was a poll about new NPCs where 10-20% admitted to never talking to them.

 

If you want to preserve the predator's ability to win drops (which is a fair standpoint, even though my opinion is different), then EVERY fighter should be informed of the danger. Perhaps white spam would be enough when you walk near the arena (in addition to the NPC who could explain the danger in more detail and advise people to use the 1 square thick safe zone). This is similar to the situation with TD where some people didn't know rostos don't work there, so warnings were added.

 

But I still think the ability to carry rostos in no drop areas would be great.

Edited June 11, 2010 by extrapolation

[ppaulosantos]

When I asked what you propose, I meant regarding the

"who doesn't happen to hear about this exploit first, should have to learn about it the hard way"

.

As I was saying, I do not plan to change it, it's a nice feature so long as people are warned.

Anyway, we, the channel 6 committee, decided to give the warning in form of an NPC near the arena that will warn about it. This should encourage people to talk to NPCs in the game as well.

 

That's the most reasonable idea i heard till now... since i was not complaining about lose my items but the way it happened. Like i said before some ppl dont come to forums or stay out of game for somtimes and have no idea about such bug, so i suggest instead you have to talk to the bot (what probably nobody will do) changes that auto warning "only 40 players can attack here" that scared me and made me ask at channel 6 (another issue to fix cuz i tought could be banned and asked in channel 6 and almost got kicked by "scamming" ) you could replace the msg with the warning about drop that would be a great solution, at least until you decide how it gonna works. I logg in that day just to have some fun and die a little as well and when i got into my self i just released that i had lost about 300kgc in gears to a "cheater" that explores a bug. So as i said before the problem is not the bug, cuz if i knew about it i simple dis tele or let it die or would not going there or whatever... but what made me mad was not beeing warned about it. Btw i lost that day 1 col , 1 mol , 1 ice armor , 1 ice boots , plus potions and essences.... and i was carrying a thermal sword, the only thing that left me in gear was the pants, thermal and a cotu. Whoever plays the game knows how hard is tho get such items and than lose it to a cheater... damn it was tuff... gratz for the fixing radu and hope it doesnt happen anymore to anyone else.

[korrode]

[Caliphear @ 6]: konnor come dpa

[konnor @ 6]: sorry dont go since i found out the specail "features"

 

See this is what i worry about, DPa dying due to this bug.

Edited June 12, 2010 by Korrode

[Entris]

Kinda late comment but why not make the brown area round the arena ND too that would solve the problem by the looks of where ppl die it's always in the middle of the brown area on the ground

[Canabtzedec]

I haven't been surprised by this or lost anything, but I just wanted to throw my support.

everything I wanted to say has pretty much been said by korrode, including that the One Perk is a conscious choice and a different issue.

 

There should be clear rules for losing stuff considering how much time it takes to get gc, and the fact that some items are bought with real money. I feel bad for the everyone that has lost big time due to the DP no drop arena. http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/style_e...lt/confused.gif

 

The whole thing just seems wrong. There are already enough ways for more experienced players to exploit newer and/or uninformed ones. Unexpected losses are EXACTLY why I will never spend money on items in this game.

(Although I paid $5 for a name change, and I"ll probably buy rostos when I own enough stuff)

 

 

 

I was just looking for the link to make a poll. Can't find it... it would be intersting to see how many like and dislike it the DPA 'phenomenon'...