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My point is this (directed to EL as a whole and generally you know who you are that this applies to):

Don't go crying about advertising or lack of it, when way too many people sit here and badmouth EL, troll forums, troll ingame, and make an environment the rest of the players would be embarrassed to advertise for. If you don't like EL, fine. Pack up and move along and do something you do like.

 

I bet more people would be promoting EL if they knew their friends and colleagues weren't going to be greeted by a group of malcontents at beam (or in channels 6 or 20 or wherever) telling people EL is a waste of time, or some joker from @20 who thinks the first image of a newbie should be his horse's rear end covering somebody else's face.

 

Until this sort of nonsense changes, all the advertising in the world won't help.

 

Do you REALLY want more players in EL? Then stop posting links to places where people are disgruntled. Stop making fake wiki's that only EL bash. Stop doing absolutely stupid things on IP especially. Stop trolling. Clean up your siggies and your guild names and guild descriptions. The list goes on.

You have to make a choice. Either support EL or move along, don't hang around trying to drag it down for everyone else.

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My point is this (directed to EL as a whole and generally you know who you are that this applies to):

Don't go crying about advertising or lack of it, when way too many people sit here and badmouth EL, troll forums, troll ingame, and make an environment the rest of the players would be embarrassed to advertise for. If you don't like EL, fine. Pack up and move along and do something you do like.

 

I bet more people would be promoting EL if they knew their friends and colleagues weren't going to be greeted by a group of malcontents at beam (or in channels 6 or 20 or wherever) telling people EL is a waste of time, or some joker from @20 who thinks the first image of a newbie should be his horse's rear end covering somebody else's face.

 

Until this sort of nonsense changes, all the advertising in the world won't help.

 

Do you REALLY want more players in EL? Then stop posting links to places where people are disgruntled. Stop making fake wiki's that only EL bash. Stop doing absolutely stupid things on IP especially. Stop trolling. Clean up your siggies and your guild names and guild descriptions. The list goes on.

You have to make a choice. Either support EL or move along, don't hang around trying to drag it down for everyone else.

I don't necessarily disagree with anything you've said, but it still should be recognised that player attitudes/actions is only one of a few reasons why the playerbase isn't expanding at any significant rate.

 

We could start a discussion on the other reasons, but considering what those reasons are, it's probably not worth it, and won't lead to anything constructive.

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My point is this (directed to EL as a whole and generally you know who you are that this applies to):

Don't go crying about advertising or lack of it, when way too many people sit here and badmouth EL, troll forums, troll ingame, and make an environment the rest of the players would be embarrassed to advertise for. If you don't like EL, fine. Pack up and move along and do something you do like.

 

I bet more people would be promoting EL if they knew their friends and colleagues weren't going to be greeted by a group of malcontents at beam (or in channels 6 or 20 or wherever) telling people EL is a waste of time, or some joker from @20 who thinks the first image of a newbie should be his horse's rear end covering somebody else's face.

 

Until this sort of nonsense changes, all the advertising in the world won't help.

 

Do you REALLY want more players in EL? Then stop posting links to places where people are disgruntled. Stop making fake wiki's that only EL bash. Stop doing absolutely stupid things on IP especially. Stop trolling. Clean up your siggies and your guild names and guild descriptions. The list goes on.

You have to make a choice. Either support EL or move along, don't hang around trying to drag it down for everyone else.

 

lol'd, who was the joker? ;)

 

not trolling here, just trying to give constructive criticism

 

i agree with Korrode though, take for example other games, those have trolls too, most likely more then EL and worse

but those games do have a large playerbase, why? because they require you to pay attention to the game, and move around alot with lots of things to do

and im not talking about clicking an ore looking at your screen waiting for a mini event, they have things Entropy suggested before, depletable resources

they are in random locations and once your done with one you go to the next, but mining there takes like 5 seconds, gets you a couple of ores and then you move on to the next

this could be done in EL too, together with fewer ingreds needed for items

 

but then everyone complains "omg then i wont have much ore anymore or flowers" while all they have to do is move around to get the same amount of ore they usually get

 

this could be applied to monster spawns too, as it is now they pick a spot, and have it spawn within a circle on that spot, while they could make the respawn place around where it dies, that way you dont have to look at that same rock every time you kill that cyclops, but keeps you moving throughout the map enjoying different sceneries

 

and ill save the ranting about economy and things like "lol give me a brick for a good day" those can be a real turn-off too

(tbh i got a few pm's saying "thanks for not donating rosto's for that day, its rediculous" and that it was a "gross display", from well respected players of the EL community)

 

advertising is good though, but imho the game is leaning too much on its playerbase, if a troll can have that much impact on a game to keep loads of players away theres something wrong

a game should provide enough fun, and easy to understand/read tutorials that people can learn on their own, ignore the trolls and keep having fun, without needing half of the community helping out keeping newbies in game

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Everybody has a different idea what makes the ideal game. Obviously. You complain if ideas aren't welcome, you complain if ideas are welcome but yours aren't chosen. Oh well. You can't please all of the people all of the time. I'll say it again, if you don't like it, that is your right. But don't hang around and bash EL because it's concept is different than yours. (And that includes hanging around doing obnoxious things pushing the envelope just to see how much we'll take before we say goodbye to you.)

 

It doesn't give you the right to insult the game, insult the creators, insult the people who do work on it, give others a medium to bash it even worse and then turn around and steal all their hard work to make your own game from the very game that you bash so badly . I find that insulting and rude. You think you can make a better game, by all means do so. But do it yourself, don't piggyback off of the very people you are bashing.

 

This thread is about advertising to get more new people ingame. Full stop. Not about the trials and tribulations of why multiplaying should be allowed or why 1000 more spawns should be added or why people should not be allowed to buy characters, why the economy is bad, etc etc etc.

 

It is not the playerbase's responsibility to advertise, I agree. However even for official EL advertising and for the people who DO want to promote it themselves and get their friends here, it would help to have a better environment waiting so they stay. And I stand by my post, I think this is one of the biggest problems here.

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I think a healthy balance in mutual respect between game devs and staff on one side, and playerbase on the other side would be a good thing to start working on. If everyone already involved in the game is a bit happier, that will be picked up by someone who just arrived in Draia and they may just like it here a little bit better.

 

As for getting new players, I think EL is the kind of game that really is NOT for everyone, and it would in my honest opinion benefit more from a smaller influx of new players that actually stick around to play the game properly, than to get 200 new players a week who stick around for a few days asking for free stuff and hand me downs because they fail to read a bit into how the game works and then leave because they didn't manage to get all the pr0 stuff after a few days of playing.

 

Anyways, I have always told people I meet in other games about EL, and will continue doing so. Maybe some of them will one day come check it out. Mouth to mouth is an effective way of advertising.. and it's free too.

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As for getting new players, I think EL is the kind of game that really is NOT for everyone, and it would in my honest opinion benefit more from a smaller influx of new players that actually stick around to play the game properly, than to get 200 new players a week who stick around for a few days asking for free stuff and hand me downs because they fail to read a bit into how the game works and then leave because they didn't manage to get all the pr0 stuff after a few days of playing.

I fully agree.

 

And second thing is keeping old players in game. There has been huge player loss during couple last years especially among fighters. I think fighters are the biggest source of income to radu, since they are buying rostos and weapons etc. and the manuers who make st00f for them are buying bindings etc. from shop. So IMO their opinions should be listened more and try to develop the game to right direction. Also most of people who are starting the game wants to become a pr0 fighter (most mmorpg's are emphased on fighting). Especially at the beginning, fighting isn't really rewarding. Newbies can't really pk since lot stronger fighters rule the DPA's and also PvE is somehow boring at the beginning.

 

So IMO there should be more fighting quests that tells about fighting mechanics and how to become a fighter / ranger / mage etc. They shouldn't be like "kill 300 rabbits and then come back to get 1k a/d exp", but learning how attributes affect your build etc. Maybe making some kind of "minigames" where newbie gets 48/48 r/w and (s)he should harm some mobs to death etc. Then get some mag exp as reward.

 

So practically what I'm trying to say, is that we should get some unique fighting quests in EL. Not like "go there, talk to that npc, kill 100 rabbits" etc. Especially to newbies, but also to higher lvl people.

 

This is just fighter's point of view.

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Harassing people for not bringing a present for Radu? That is just wrong. A gift should be given freely or not at all. Otherwise, it is not a gift, it is a tax or fee. Radu has made good improvements to the game, but that does not mean people should harass others to give him a gift. Others have given alot of time, effort and useful feedback on the game, but is anyone going to try to force you to bring them gifts? Probably not.

 

Yes, Aislinn, it does help if those that the newbs run into are happy about the game and not complaining about this part or another, but if they aren't happy, I hope nobody expects them to Lie in order to help the player base. The newbs will probably find out that they are unhappy or become unhappy themselves for the same reasons sooner or later. Making them feel a little better about the game is likely to increase the chance of new players sticking around. If that is by adjusting what makes them unhappy or helping them adjust does not matter as much.

 

Why are we off of the original topic? Because it has already been discussed and decided that it is for the most part a dead end. Radu will or will not advertise as he pleases. Players who will advertise despite having no obligation to will. (I link to the EL site on my myspace page)

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Harassing people for not bringing a present for Radu? That is just wrong. A gift should be given freely or not at all. Otherwise, it is not a gift, it is a tax or fee. Radu has made good improvements to the game, but that does not mean people should harass others to give him a gift. Others have given alot of time, effort and useful feedback on the game, but is anyone going to try to force you to bring them gifts? Probably not.

 

is that about Jezebelle's radu party?

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http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2262969019

 

Link to facebook page ;) if it's allowed to be posted as it's unofficial dunno. if not delete the post.

That's your idea of attracting people? With comments like "Join EL! Where half the "players" are the same players and the other half are bots!" and "Be yourself but try not to get hit by the ban hamz0r"...link to unofficial forums? What was the topic of this thread again?

 

While I respect the notion that people can have whatever opinion they want, maybe some thought about what the goal is would be a good idea before some people open their mouths and think they're funny.

 

This would have been a good idea if people who actively play and enjoy the game made the account and ran it.

 

I didn't make the group i just posted the link. If game creators came up with an official page then i would be there but i'm not aware of one. I think that's what some people here are saying. Take advantage of these free social media things to help promote the game. Maybe ask for an active volunteer(s) (maybe even people who created that page if they are still active) from the EL community to help promote the game on these kinds of sites that works with game creators and is answerable to them but then Radu and co. don't have to be directly over the implementation but still benefit from the PR.

 

Some tips might be give aways specific to the media site listed, they don't have to be big just keep people checking back and inviting others to join in the fun.

IE: Facebook post: First person to pm Aislinn in game gets a free horse whistle.

 

Simple, cheap, keeps people checking the page or signing up for tweets etc. and if you allow Fans to post similar things it becomes more active and the more of those fans friends see the info through commenting or sharing the post etc.

 

Post links to the official pages on the EL homepage, everywhere I go now I see the F button or the t button to sign up to follow whatever.

 

anyways my 2 platinum coins worth

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Harassing people for not bringing a present for Radu? That is just wrong. A gift should be given freely or not at all. Otherwise, it is not a gift, it is a tax or fee. Radu has made good improvements to the game, but that does not mean people should harass others to give him a gift. Others have given alot of time, effort and useful feedback on the game, but is anyone going to try to force you to bring them gifts? Probably not.

 

is that about Jezebelle's radu party?

That part was in response to some of your words in post #53 which I assumed was about Jezebelle's radu party.

 

You said "(tbh i got a few pm's saying "thanks for not donating rosto's for that day, its rediculous" and that it was a "gross display", from well respected players of the EL community)".

 

Even if that is not what you were referring to, if anyone was harassed for not bringing a present of a brick, it would be really messed up and harassing anyone into doing something to help a cause is messed up to. People should only help if they want to.

 

Perhaps the first 10 friends on myspace/facebook that show the EL member as their visible friend on their page could get a free ________ a month later if it is still visible?

Edited by nathanstenzel

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Unfortunately EL has to compete now with the many many WoW clones, where the action is fast paced , less penalty involved for death and more team orientated. MMO's have progressed a freaking tonne in the last 5 years , i dont believe the problem lies with attracting new players, the problem is keeping them around.

 

What happened to the newbie retention contests held 6 months ago? that was a good idea. But really, if we are being honest, 200 die hard fans doth not a community make, as shakespeare once said.

 

yes i retired, but something kept me here for a few years and it was nothing to do with how well el was marketed. retention is the key.

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It doesn't give you the right to insult the game, insult the creators, insult the people who do work on it, give others a medium to bash it even worse and then turn around and steal all their hard work to make your own game from the very game that you bash so badly . I find that insulting and rude. You think you can make a better game, by all means do so. But do it yourself, don't piggyback off of the very people you are bashing.

Hmmmm i wonder who this is directed at??

 

It doesn't give you the right to insult the game, insult the creators, insult the people who do work on it

Actually the only place you get to decide what is or isn't my right to say is on these forums or in-game.

In the rest of the whole big wide world I do have the right to say whatever I like. Free speech ftw?

 

give others a medium to bash it even worse

Once again, I do 'have the right' to make forums, blogs, websites, etc. about anything I like, you/radu/EL admin/mods are mods'n'gods here, but you're nothing special outside the small corner of the internet that is EL's forums and game server.

So please refrain from trying to dictate to me what my speech rights are anywhere other than here.

Furthermore, you might want to consider that perhaps an attitude shift from the admins/mods on exactly this sort of thing might create a happier playerbase and might reduce the desire to create other mediums for discussion about the game. (You'd be amazed how big the difference between "Enough or i'll mute" and "C'mon guys you know this wont fly :) quit it eh" can make... or the difference between "Have fun, give me bricks" and "Have fun" can make :pickaxe: ...or how rebutting a post rather than just deleting it will reduce a poster's resentment.)

 

The forums in question were created completely because of post deletion on these forums. Maybe if the moderation in these forums and channels was 'adjusted' and only really enforced when it really is required, there'd be no unofficial forums and there'd be less unhappy players. Maybe the EL administration could even speak to those who use those forums, on those forums, and see if some kind of an arrangement can be reached that results in those forums being removed but mostly people on both sides still being happy... you never know what could be arranged if certain people came down from their god'n'mod pedestals for just a few minutes.

 

But oops, oh no, wait... Rule 27, which reads: We want to be able to do whatever and never be able to be publicly confronted about it, never have to publicly answer for any of our actions, never be publicly shown to have been incorrect about anything, ever. Moderation is never a topic for public discussion.

 

So guess this post will be deleted.

 

then turn around and steal all their hard work to make your own game from the very game that you bash so badly

Ah so, a situation where you're just a couple of people and don't have the time/resources/will/on-hand-knowledge to create everything required for a game is completely foreign around here, is it? Liek, that's definitely not how Radu and Roja started out eh?

 

Furthermore, I guess the client's Open Source licence is just a bs front. Really all it means is "Do lots of work for me for free but fyi your work is mine and mine alone forever." Doesn't really match the usual concept/mentality of 'Open Source'.

If i was one of the people who'd contributed a great many hours to be working on the client, i'd be very happy to see it being widely used.

 

Also, last i heard the 'EL client compatible' server in question was destined to fail, so with that in mind any interest it builds up will just lead people here, to the awesome Eternal Lands. Hell on the front page of the website for 'that' it reads "Eternal Lands is an excellent MMORPG - if you haven't played it yet, it is highly recommended." and even links back!

 

 

Well there's my little rant, i gotta go to work now bb.

 

Now you just have to decide if you're going to prove my points by deleting this post and even banning my in-game/forum account. Have fun.

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1. I'm not afraid of your posts or anything you have to say. If this gets deleted it will be because it's off topic and by somebody else.

2. You missed the point. I don't care what you say outside of this small corner of the internet. I do care that you take from the people who have worked hard here and give them nothing in return, and would rather turn around and bash them silly and give others a place to do it worse, including enabling them to knowingly cheat and get around the rules.

3. I do not believe you are a qualified judge of what is required enforcement for forum or ingame moderation. I personally have no interest in reaching any arrangement allowing your forum's version of free speech.

4. My post was not all about you. Just the one paragraph.

 

So if anybody cares to get back on topic, feel free.

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1. I'm not afraid of your posts or anything you have to say.

Good to hear.

But someone must be afraid of some things some people may say. Hence rule 27.

 

2. You missed the point. I don't care what you say outside of this small corner of the internet. I do care that you take from the people who have worked hard here and give them nothing in return, and would rather turn around and bash them silly and give others a place to do it worse, including enabling them to knowingly cheat and get around the rules.

1. I actually do try and give back to EL, and did more-so in the past when i was less disgruntled with it. I try and help people with problems playing both in-game and in the forums, and i report bugs where i find them, I've ran events to try and keep players entertained and happy... I don't want a medal, i know others have contributed a lot more, just saying that's bs.

2. I quote myself from June 19, 2008, from a pinned thread in the unoff forums:

"Plus, the purpose of these forums is not to circumvent EL game rules... just the forum rules."

 

If you feel that somehow people are enabled to cheat via the unofficial forums, please feel free to point out how and i'll try and address it.

 

I personally have no interest in reaching any arrangement allowing your forum's version of free speech.

See you've already jumped to a conclusion prior to even having any discussion.

You're sure i would require the amount of 'freedom' that's on the unofficial forums before i'd agree upon an arrangement?

 

4. My post was not all about you. Just the one paragraph.

Well all i really responded to was the one paragraph.

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Furthermore, I guess the client's Open Source licence is just a bs front. Really all it means is "Do lots of work for me for free but fyi your work is mine and mine alone forever." Doesn't really match the usual concept/mentality of 'Open Source'.

If you don't like the license, feel free not to use the software for your own game. Obviously, those who contributed with code so far did not have a problem with the license.

 

If i was one of the people who'd contributed a great many hours to be working on the client, i'd be very happy to see it being widely used.

I would be happy too if someone uses our client to make their own game. That's not a problem, and it's what Open Source is all about. The license specifically allows people to do just that.

But the problem is that your game is still going to use our artwork (not the maps). Sure, you won't distribute it, but all your possible players will have to steal our artwork to play on your server. It's a legally ambiguous problem. Of course, if you guys only use your own artwork, that's great.

 

Now you just have to decide if you're going to prove my points by deleting this post and even banning my in-game/forum account. Have fun.

So we are big assholes for something we didn't even do, yes?

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If i was one of the people who'd contributed a great many hours to be working on the client, i'd be very happy to see it being widely used.

I would be happy too if someone uses our client to make their own game. That's not a problem, and it's what Open Source is all about. The license specifically allows people to do just that.

But the problem is that your game is still going to use our artwork (not the maps). Sure, you won't distribute it, but all your possible players will have to steal our artwork to play on your server. It's a legally ambiguous problem. Of course, if you guys only use your own artwork, that's great.

We're very actively looking at other clients and if anyone wanted to re-do the artwork we'd be extremely welcoming of it to squash that legal ambiguity.

 

Now you just have to decide if you're going to prove my points by deleting this post and even banning my in-game/forum account. Have fun.

So we are big assholes for something we didn't even do, yes?

Well you're here and my post remains, so i guess not.

I didn't say you already did anything, I just said you'd have to decide if you will do something.

Edited by Korrode

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There has been huge player loss during couple last years especially among fighters. I think fighters are the biggest source of income to radu, since they are buying rostos and weapons etc. and the manuers who make st00f for them are buying bindings etc. from shop. So IMO their opinions should be listened more and try to develop the game to right direction. Also most of people who are starting the game wants to become a pr0 fighter (most mmorpg's are emphased on fighting). Especially at the beginning, fighting isn't really rewarding. Newbies can't really pk since lot stronger fighters rule the DPA's and also PvE is somehow boring at the beginning.

 

So IMO there should be more fighting quests that tells about fighting mechanics and how to become a fighter / ranger / mage etc. They shouldn't be like "kill 300 rabbits and then come back to get 1k a/d exp", but learning how attributes affect your build etc. Maybe making some kind of "minigames" where newbie gets 48/48 r/w and (s)he should harm some mobs to death etc. Then get some mag exp as reward.

 

So practically what I'm trying to say, is that we should get some unique fighting quests in EL. Not like "go there, talk to that npc, kill 100 rabbits" etc. Especially to newbies, but also to higher lvl people.

Many players pursue fighting. Whether a CoL is 60k, 80k, or 100k, a fighter will likely still buy one. A top Crafter or Manufacturer may have more insight and a less biased view of supply, demand, and the market in general than one of many fighters, trying to dump monster drops for a quick sale. To say a player's opinion should be weighed more heavily because of the skills s/he chooses to pursue is rather ignorant.

 

The suggestion about revised quests is good - why not brainstorm some ideas, and make a more formal suggestion? The much loved Novac quests stemmed from a suggestion, for instance.

 

It doesn't give you the right to insult the game, insult the creators, insult the people who do work on it, give others a medium to bash it even worse and then turn around and steal all their hard work to make your own game from the very game that you bash so badly . I find that insulting and rude. You think you can make a better game, by all means do so. But do it yourself, don't piggyback off of the very people you are bashing.

Hmmmm i wonder who this is directed at??

 

It doesn't give you the right to insult the game, insult the creators, insult the people who do work on it

Actually the only place you get to decide what is or isn't my right to say is on these forums or in-game.

In the rest of the whole big wide world I do have the right to say whatever I like. Free speech ftw?

I think the "right" referred to here is a moral one, rather than legal. Yes, you have a legal right to free speech. That still doesn't always make it a good idea to exercise it.

 

My humble suggestion to players who do little more than stick around to complain how much everything in EL sucks, is to actively improve the situation in EL, or shut up about it. AFAIK, you are working on your own server, Korrode. If everything is perfect there, why stick around here to complain? It's like living in a castle and driving to somebody's house in the ghetto to laugh at things which look cheap. Get off your high horse already.

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Radu, you could do something like what Mozilla does. People are entitled to distribute Firefox binaries but if they modify the source code, they cannot use the official branding/artwork. That's why many distributions use unofficial artwork and branding.

ArchLinux for example uses only the globe icon instead of the "fox/globe" icon and the the browser uses a codename instead of "firefox". Something similar could maybe arranged for the EL client. people can modify the source code and make their own games but with modifying the source code to make a different game, they cannot use the official artwork anymore so they are forced to use their own maps and artwork for ingame items and creatures.

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AFAIK, you are working on your own server, Korrode. If everything is perfect there, why stick around here to complain?

If you look back over my forums posts for the last few months you'll see i've been 'complaining' a hell of a lot less.

I don't (well certainly try not to) get on big discussions/rants about game design any more. I finally accept some things about EL will never change, no matter how worthwhile changing it may be. EDIT: The amount of forum threads i've looked at recently and been like "omg i gotta post" and then just gone "no... remember, no ranting about game design anymore" is a lot :)

 

All that said, alternate server aside; I still want to see EL do well. Always have. I wouldn't have in the past spent hours making game improvement suggestions if i didn't.

 

EDIT:

Radu, you could do something like what Mozilla does. People are entitled to distribute Firefox binaries but if they modify the source code, they cannot use the official branding/artwork. That's why many distributions use unofficial artwork and branding.

ArchLinux for example uses only the globe icon instead of the "fox/globe" icon and the the browser uses a codename instead of "firefox". Something similar could maybe arranged for the EL client. people can modify the source code and make their own games but with modifying the source code to make a different game, they cannot use the official artwork anymore so they are forced to use their own maps and artwork for ingame items and creatures.

That basically already is the license.

The difference is when it's Firefox in a distro, the artwork is being distributed by the distro.

With an alternate EL server, no artwork or any binary data (so long as ppl use thier own .elm's) is held server-side.

 

EDIT2:

Also FYI I'm not on some intentional crusade against radu with this whole licenses thing, as said earlier, I'd hope he wouldn't mind or even be happy about people making servers compatible with the client. I would if i was in his position. (and he said earlier he was, just mentioned the artwork thing.)

Edited by Korrode

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1. I'm not afraid of your posts or anything you have to say.

Good to hear.

But someone must be afraid of some things some people may say. Hence rule 27.

People are not here to be forced to watch a constant stream of mod bashing by trolls with nothing better to do. That rule is in place for the same reason we removed the Flames forum section so many years ago. It gets ugly, it gets old, and people are here to enjoy themselves, not be subjected to the nasty things "free speech" brings out.

 

 

2. You missed the point. I don't care what you say outside of this small corner of the internet. I do care that you take from the people who have worked hard here and give them nothing in return, and would rather turn around and bash them silly and give others a place to do it worse, including enabling them to knowingly cheat and get around the rules.
1. I actually do try and give back to EL, and did more-so in the past when i was less disgruntled with it. I try and help people with problems playing both in-game and in the forums, and i report bugs where i find them, I've ran events to try and keep players entertained and happy... I don't want a medal, i know others have contributed a lot more, just saying that's bs.
Let me try again. It's the fact you take this client that others here have worked hard on for many years and use it elsewhere, AND along with that you bash and insult the very people who made it. It has nothing to do with the open source part, or you using it. You can help all the newbies you like but that doesn't excuse your behavior towards people who made the very thing you need and use privately. That is what I think is rude and insulting to everyone here.

 

 

2. I quote myself from June 19, 2008, from a pinned thread in the unoff forums:

"Plus, the purpose of these forums is not to circumvent EL game rules... just the forum rules."

If you feel that somehow people are enabled to cheat via the unofficial forums, please feel free to point out how and i'll try and address it.

That comment doesn't even warrant a response.

 

 

I personally have no interest in reaching any arrangement allowing your forum's version of free speech.

See you've already jumped to a conclusion prior to even having any discussion.

You're sure i would require the amount of 'freedom' that's on the unofficial forums before i'd agree upon an arrangement?

Kinda like you jumped to the conclusion I would delete your posts? You know me better than you are letting on here on several points and I know your forum clientele.

 

 

4. My post was not all about you. Just the one paragraph.

Well all i really responded to was the one paragraph.

Noted.

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@Aislinn (most of your post)

Well we have different views and opinions on some things then.

 

I think you peg me as 'worse' than i am.

I'm often critical, often my criticism probably comes with an attitude you may not like (and it's not worth getting into depth on why myself and many others end up with such attitude coming through in their posts)... but my definition at least of "bash and insult" isn't something i've done very often at all.

 

I don't deny others have on the unoff forums tho.

 

I personally have no interest in reaching any arrangement allowing your forum's version of free speech.

See you've already jumped to a conclusion prior to even having any discussion.

You're sure i would require the amount of 'freedom' that's on the unofficial forums before i'd agree upon an arrangement?

Kinda like you jumped to the conclusion I would delete your posts? You know me better than you are letting on here on several points and I know your forum clientele.

Well,

1. I said "have to decide if", not that you would.

2. The post of mine we're referencing, although in response to you, is not solely directed at you, much so it was at 'the EL administration' as a whole, and thus whoever it is that does delete posts.

 

You know me better than you are letting on here on several points.

And you know me better than to imply I've got such a high degree of intentional malice towards EL.

 

edit: damn typos

Edited by Korrode

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i read the first page and skimmed through the second one and i'm pretty sure no one mentioned this but... you know what would really reel in players? sex appeal. (highly doubt it'd ever happen, though) i noticed a lot of EL female's weren't too happy with their draegoni's when they underwent the updates.

all i'm saying is, every mmo out there i've tried that has a high playerbase has some sex appeal even if it's just skimpy clothing etc. even with the unofficial clothing a lot of what i saw was the ladies emphasizing the "chest" region.

oh and it probably didn't make it too appealing when they sat down & had a bag between their legs :) (not insulting the gfx, i can't even draw a decent fish let alone model characters)

 

i know i probably sound like the biggest pervert in the world but it's just logic.. what attracts players (if i read the first couple of posts right, they're trying to attract more) is plain and simply put; a little bit of sex appeal.

 

probably a last resort for el but i'm just putting it out there.

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@Aislinn (most of your post)

Well we have different views and opinions on some things then.

 

I think you peg me as 'worse' than i am.

I'm often critical, often my criticism probably comes with an attitude you may not like (and it's not worth getting into depth on why myself and many others end up with such attitude coming through in their posts)... but my definition at least of "bash and insult" isn't something i've done very often at all.

 

I don't deny others have on the unoff forums tho.

That's how you come off though. Bad attitude, thinly veiled criticisms and insults, even the implication we won't realize you are criticizing and insulting us.

And fair or not, you represent your forums and by your tolerance, you are part and parcel of what is said.

 

 

I personally have no interest in reaching any arrangement allowing your forum's version of free speech.
See you've already jumped to a conclusion prior to even having any discussion.

You're sure i would require the amount of 'freedom' that's on the unofficial forums before i'd agree upon an arrangement?

Kinda like you jumped to the conclusion I would delete your posts? You know me better than you are letting on here on several points and I know your forum clientele.
Well,

1. I said "have to decide if", not that you would.

2. The post of mine we're referencing, although in response to you, is not solely directed at you, much so it was at 'the EL administration' as a whole, and thus whoever it is that does delete posts.

Make no mistake, I can and do delete posts. But never because I can't handle what is said.

 

 

You know me better than you are letting on here on several points.
And you know me better than to imply I've got such a high degree of intentional malice towards EL.
I'd like to think that your aggression and persistance and attitude is because you care but there is a point when people don't want to be meanly criticized, made fun of, and insulted anymore, whatever your reasons.

 

(Going to bed now, can't seem to manage quotes anymore tonight)

Oh, and thanks for the laugh bigkav. Good to know somebody can cut through the crap right down to the important stuff in life :)

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hey I also remember a couple years back the mod team would put global anouncements out with links to some MMO review site voting system and players would open the webpage and vote for EL as this months top game

 

that would definately have been noticed back then by new players looking at top lists. would be a good way to get more attention again , I forgot the name of that particular website tho

 

*edit* sometimes editing is just un necessary

Edited by Ateh

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