Another idea to add people

[handyman]

Before we even decided to or not to go ahead with this idea i guess we should be looking to see if anyone would want to come over here from main.

I know this is part of the vote that Bkc has placed

Maybe someone who plays this server and has a mains char to could chat with guild masters over on main about the post and see if they would want to start up their guild over here or send some members over here to start it.

I have played many games that have more than 1 server and you tend to have the same alliances/ guilds fighting for supremacy.

Also By making the server busier you will start getting some of the old players back here.

 

I just checked the players on line i would say today is a good day there are 14 chars on line so i would say 5 or 6 people playing at the moment. speaks for its self really also wander how many is afk.

 

Handy

[csiga]

For example: csiga on main has 100+ a/d. After this option is available, it is possible to copy my char with 100 a/d to pk?

 

I think the copy should be started in the following way to become fair against the other players:

 

- all stats with the same as the main, but

- a/d starts with 4/4 or what it is the current starting value on IP, oa starts with 0

Edited October 19, 2009 by csiga

[ProHibited]

It are two different servers, linking the characterbase like this doesnt make sense.

 

If it brings more players, what the hell, why not

[ChrisC]

if anything, the a/d should be halved if its over 100... if they can lv over 100, they can lv from 50 to 100

[bkc56]

Before we even decided to or not to go ahead with this idea i guess we should be looking to see if anyone would want to come over here from main.

I know this is part of the vote that Bkc has placed

If the poll passes (the PK server agrees to the idea) then Entropy may want another poll run over in General to get a better idea of how many main players would actually want to do this. We can't count on enough people seeing this poll to be representative of the main server audience.

[handyman]

we were talking in channel about all this yesterday and these were the main concerns and question if chars were copied over from main

 

1: Could they be any level a/d on main? i.e 120 a/d on main but reduced to 100 a/d when copied.

The main problem here is magic lvl's as we stop training a/d over here at 100 a/d so then to raise magic levels we have to train magic separately so it does not grow as fast as it would like it does on main. I guess the highest lvl magic over here at the moment after 2 years is around 70.

 

2: Could their be a reduction on the transfer.

what is meant by this is say a 100 a/d or all char is reduce by 10 or 20 % so they arrive at 80-90 a/d giving the new arrivals some work still to do also it would save them getting bored coming here with out any leveling to do. I personally think this would mean alot of work for radu also a more simple solution would be to lower the limit copied to up to 80 or 90 a/d chars.

 

3: exploiting this idea

Players selling their copies to other players if they dont want to come here themselves

I cant see how this would effect the PK server as It would still mean more players here also only one copy of any char can only be made so if chars that change hands on main after they had been copied then they would not be copied again.

 

4: storages and o/a levels

Bkc can you just confirm i think in your original post the the idea was that all copied chars would arrive with no storage and 0 o/a so the would have some work to do. was that the idea?

 

5: Players that have playing the pk server and raising craft, manu, engin e.t.c suddenly have new people arriving with higher levels. also how would this effect the economy.

This is one of the main concerns at the moment the bots set the price on here as the 3 bot owners keep to the same prices. so this could change but as it stands when was the last time someone sold some stuff on the pk server alot of players are self sufficient and more players wont effect that if anything with pk rising mixers would start getting some work

 

Handy

[Patriot]

I agree with Chris and a few others that the "warrior" type skills such as A/D maybe others should be halved. I personally dont mind the manu/pot/crafting and whatnot being transfered as is, but I also am not #1 or in the top 5 in any of those skills to have my name kicked out of. SO that would more or less be up to those who do, I am not saying I hold top rankings for A/D but I dont want a bunch of idiots from main coming over and pking me like crazy all the time just because we would have TONS of capped players instead of our 3! Anyway, I wouldn't object even to all skills being halved, that would still be a huge jump over the rest of us who had to start from scratch on pk (I know I havent totally had that expierience )

 

 

Talon

[bkc56]

1: Could they be any level a/d on main? i.e 120 a/d on main but reduced to 100 a/d when copied.

2: Could their be a reduction on the transfer.

Per my post on the first page of this thread:

 

Update: I asked Radu in-game about stats reductions. His reply: "not likely". I interpret that as: possible, but probably not worth the work involved. So that probably rules-out any >100 a/d people moving over.

 

So to answer your questions: No, and No.

 

4: storages and o/a levels

Bkc can you just confirm i think in your original post the the idea was that all copied chars would arrive with no storage and 0 o/a so the would have some work to do. was that the idea?

Confirmed. Storage and inventory wipe, plus reset. They would not arrive ready to pown the place.

 

5: Players that have playing the pk server and raising craft, manu, engin e.t.c suddenly have new people arriving with higher levels. also how would this effect the economy.

This is one of my big concerns too. It's not like they didn't work just as hard as we did for those levels, but their sudden appearance on the PK server could have radical repercussions.

[DHT]

halving the skills is just dumb. you can cut level 100 in half to make level 50, but if you cut the exp to get there in half the level would be much higher, so no big difference.

 

There should be an alternative for 100+ A/D main server players, but from my experience, only a handful of them would consider moving cross server. The other skills' professionals would be great on this server - we lack tailors (and it doesn't seem like anybody is going to train it hard atm), archers would be great, as well as other skills. I admit, loader might be pushed down the ranking, but so what? it doesn't mean that there will be thousands of steel/tit armors coming into the game, as there will still be a need for harvesters, and their rare stones.

 

As for multiple transfers of the same character (if this is what you guys were talking about), this shouldn't be allowed. of course, people might sell their copies, but I seriously doubt that they would earn much. also there might be a rule to only get 1 character transfered from the same IP, unless it is whitelisted.

[bkc56]

...we lack tailors (and it doesn't seem like anybody is going to train it hard atm)

Off topic - I've been working tailoring exclusively for the last couple month and am currently several levels above the previous #1 rank.

 

Edit: Currently tailoring level 35 (tunics start at 66) I'll be happy if I get to pants and shirts.

Edited October 20, 2009 by bkc56

[DHT]

off-topic #2: can you make tunics with relatively small chance of failure? you can answer me in game

[ChrisC]

halving the a/d of someone 120's and up isnt a bad idea... it gives insentive to reach the cap, and Pk players. plus, it wouldnt be hard for someone to lv it up to 100, beings they have gotten higher than that on main. trust me, once you reach cap, you pretty much have nothing else to do, except train summoning/magic/ranging... there is still the chance to train oa, but not as fun now that you dont see the XP going over your head

 

I agree that players with higher skills not related to combat would be ncie, but still need those people to get harvesters to find rare stones and such. with more people in game, it = more PK, more rare stones, more rare armor/weps... its a ll a plus for this server.

 

All in all, i think its a great idea to get more people on the server, and would still be fun for the people with their a/d halved to get to the cap, and lv other skills.

[bkc56]

Well I've seen that people are already talking about using friends to help transfer chars to the PK server thus obeying the letter of the law (one transfer per person) while totally ignoring the spirit (intent) of the proposal (getting new people on the server). Should Entropy approve this idea it will turn into a char buying free-for-all.

 

And why not? If someone has money to spend why not hit the main server rankings page and find the optimal fighter, mixer, and harvester chars to buy and pay the transfer fee. For a small pile of gc/money you could build the perfect self-supporting squad for the PK server.

 

So is this a good thing or a bad thing?

 

I realize we have no clue what the long-term ramifications of this change would be to the server. But it's clear it would be a fundamental change, almost as significant as a server reset and ignoring the last two years of work. Everything will be different.

 

But again, is this good or bad? Would the appearance of a bunch of fully-leveled chars totally drive away all the current players? Would the server be more popular long-term (that is after the first couple months when all the PK wanna-bees get bored and leave) than it is now?

 

And just my luck, my crystal ball's in the shop getting a fresh polishing...

[handyman]

Would the appearance of a bunch of fully-leveled chars totally drive away all the current players?

 

Which hand did you want me to use to count the currant players on

 

The way i see it all this about halfing players skills and people are still talking about bring 120+ chars over here and reducing a/d. The simple solution would be only chars up to 80 or 90 a/d can be copied over that way everyone will still have some work to do before they reach the cap.

If you are from main and your char is to high to copy over im sure you know someome with a char that would fall into the catogry that you could use over here.

 

As for all the other skills, yes we on the pk server have worked hard over the past 2 years raising are lvls players with alc over 100, pot,manu,craft over 70. and its good to be high on the leader bored but what is the point if there are only 5-6 players online and very little resorcess to make good armour/weapons.

 

I would be happy to be lowered in the tables if it meant getting more players on here. having someone to fight with or against. players wanting to buy he's and srs's again. Maybe even turning this server into the server it was meant to be in the first place.

 

Handy

[Requiem]

Handy makes a very good point. There's not much point in being the best at what you do, when your competition is five other players.

 

As far as copying the same character multiple times, I do not see to much of a problem, they are paying for each copy. Perhaps limiting copies by time, IE: you must wait one month (for example) after copying a character, before you are allowed to copy it again.

[Patriot]

I agree with the others, having more people over here would mean more people to pk. It might actually become a "pk server" I myself have gone out on pking missions only to come back empty handed, because the only person online happens to be the only person on the server I have a NAP with. So, I am all for it...if it drastically changes the way the server works...so what...it is just a game, and I can't see it being all that bad anyway. Might actually be pretty fun.

 

Aight all you fighters...warm up, lets kill all the main server n00bs.

 

 

Talon

[LewisCarroll]

Don't be afraid of change!

Some arguments for the char-copy-option:

 

1. Why not try?

Most agree we need more players. It is an option and if we dont do anything things will not change.

 

2. What is the worst that could happen?

People that come over will have to deal with the social structures on PK that are already existent. There had to be a big number of allied strong Chars to rewrite the inofficial "rules" (that established for a good reason, that people from main sometimes perhaps can't understand without having played the Pk-Server). And even if there was (what is not very likely to be). There might be two fraction - the original Pk-people sticking eith the old ways and the new group. Then they might actually have a reason to fight. So what? Even if player swith 100a/d come over. They'd still be o/a 0! I guess it can be pain in the a$$ to get the o/a levels without getting a/d exp. And how long would it take for those to beat the 100 a/d-Players that we have now on the server? So I guess a balance of power would be preserved in one way or another...

 

3. For which players is the copy-option interesting?

For the reasons mentioned above i think it is no "incredibly great and unfair to all others"-option for players with high a/d. In my opinion it might be more interesting for mid-level players, who dont want o belong to a nameless crowd that can never catch up with the Top-Players on main.

 

4. Who is affected on PK?

Pk-wise I think the most powerful players would be mages or archers to come over. A level 100 mage could be indeed quite annoying on a Pk-Server

As for the Mixers: Would u make more or less profit? I think prices on the PK-Server are much too low by now considering how rare enriched ess and stones are. So at least the prices wouldn't drop too far. And the demand? Not sure if the copy option wouldn't improve it. But maybe some mixers have to write on this.

(Edit: And of course guildless players might have to consider joining a guild if they aren't strong enough to protect themselves...)

 

5. What if everything turns out to be a big mistake?

I think we could limit the damage by implementing a time limit for the copy as said before.

 

So here's what i propose to do, so we don't get stuck in discussion:

 

- Work out a concept for the copy-option: For example: 3 month time limitation (could be change by ent later if necessary) + restriction: only chars up to 80 a/d (or below 100 if people agree) can be copied + they start with empty sto and 0 o/a

to get this done we should have a new poll (restricted to Pk-server players) about that concept. Question is: Would a majority agree to this (a little refined, since I think the changes matter to people) concept?

 

- Having the concept fixed, start a forum thread (or similiar info-campaign) to inform main-players

 

- After end of the 3 month, having a solid player base (at least a better one than now), establish a continuous information/advertising about/for the Pk-server (e.g. the bot mentioned before)

 

The thing is: We have to keep things realistic and as simple as possible. Of course there can always be problems or things that one might not like. But we now also have something we do not like: few players...

Do something or get ready to wait some more years for something to happen

Edited October 21, 2009 by LewisCarroll

[handyman]

I agree with LewisCarroll

 

This is a great idea the initial post could do with refining as we have had a chance to talk about this and discuss different options point out potential problems.

 

1: I propose no skill to be over 80 not just a/d. for copied chars from main

2: Any proposed changes to the server i.e buying more stuff from the shop like enriched ess, binding stones, bringing back weapon and armor npc's and so on can not be put forward for the first 6 months

3: Mains chars arrive with storage wipe and 0-20 o/a

4: Maybe a time limit on how long this offer is open to the main server to see what response we have and how it effects the server. (like a trail before its open completely)

 

We still need to generate interest on the main server so maybe if this was approved then a post in the main server section about this would be good if possible

 

This way like lewis said players that dont have the time to level or are to far out of reach of the top guys on main could come over here and be a top player also even top players from main could get a friend to copy a lower level char over to here for them.

 

feel free to comment if you think anything needs to be added to this proposal or if you disagree with it

 

Handy

[DHT]

3. For which players is the copy-option interesting?

For the reasons mentioned above i think it is no "incredibly great and unfair to all others"-option for players with high a/d. In my opinion it might be more interesting for mid-level players, who dont want o belong to a nameless crowd that can never catch up with the Top-Players on main.

 

Hail to that brother.

 

It's plain and simple - if your Attack and/or Defense levels are over 100,t you can't copy your character. Some high level harvesters, crafters, manuers, or even alchers for that matter would only be a plus for the server. However, as they move, there will be a much greater demand for harvests over time, and we all know it. So we, the PK server players, should inform the newcomers of safe places to harvest, so that they don't get pissed off of constantly being killed and leave.

[ChrisC]

why cant the lv 100's and up not come to this server? they are the ones who will most likely "PK" on this server! they should be able to get a character here, but get the xp they have, taken down to lv 70-80's. You are pejiduce to the 100's and up ppl

[handyman]

why cant the lv 100's and up not come to this server? they are the ones who will most likely "PK" on this server! they should be able to get a character here, but get the xp they have, taken down to lv 70-80's. You are pejiduce to the 100's and up ppl

 

 

Chris my main reason is magic levels where on the pk server the a/d cap is 100 and we stopped training on mobs our magic levels have stayed around 60-70.

If you have levels of 100+ in a/d then your magic level is going to go higher.

So the only other option would be to reduce magic levels as well as a/d in that case.

 

So 100+ a/d main server players would will have a/d reduced to 80-90 where ever would be decided and magic reduced to 50-60. Is this not getting more and more complicated? and how much adjustment would Ent be prepared to do

 

Handy

[ChrisC]

im pretty sure he would do it, especially if there is a chance for more money in it for him. i agree, the magic lv should be lowered as well, if your over that 100 mark. so i guess we all can agree, that if u come to the server, you get your magic lowered to 50-60, and your a/d to 70-80? i think that would be the best way to get people on this server, if they are over that a/d range... still incentive to come over, and incentive to train, not just walk around all day PKing ppl.

[Chosen]

I'd be surprised if any of the active PK'ers on main left to join the PK Server. Also, Magic doesn't have that much of an effect, unless you're becoming a mage, but then you're still weak. And the people with "+70 Magic" are those who train yeti, or those who took the time to level the skill.

 

I like this idea, and I don't see why some of you are voting No, considering you want more players on the Server. Yes, you got your levels on PK Server, so what? People done the same work on main server, yet they will go to PK Server with 0 Overall, and no storage.

 

Stop complaining.

 

And btw, I would consider coming back to the PK Server, with this. (You all know me and Woodeh sold our chars - I would love to see the Server be more active.)

[SenZon]

I already played the pk server, leveled my char to 70s but got bored since no one to fight etc.

 

I voted #3 - I do NOT play the PK server, but would use this option

 

But would be nice for chars that are over level 100 on main (i.e almost 150s on main atm) to just get 'rolledback' to 100 a/d.

 

Good idea, i might find a friend on main that is lower/equal to 100 a/d to start playing again if the idea above doesnt work.

[bkc56]

im pretty sure he would do it,

I've already posted a couple times that Entropy is NOT inclined to make stat adjustments. That's not going to change because people think it's easy to do, or important to the final version of the idea or anything else.

 

...especially if there is a chance for more money in it for him...

Entropy already increased the price for transfer from my original guess to the current $15 because of the work involved. Yes, for more money he might do it, but if the price for transfer goes up to $25 or $35 per char are people still going to want to do it?

 

I agree with the comment above, the proposal needs to be simple. The more conditions and constraints we add the less likely it will be approved.

 

After talking with a bunch of people, I also agree we probably need to lower the "transfer cap", perhaps to a/d <=90 so new people have some work to do to become one of the top-level PKers.

 

And while we may want a new poll, I still want to leave this one open for discussion for the full week I started with. We're still getting a lot of discussion so we're not done yet.