Would you like to see the weight of att and def increased?

[Dilly]

It will still be very worthwile buying pickpoints. If someone really insists on moving up in the chain faster than others with the same a/d levels: enhance the char with negs or hydropickpoints and there will still be an effect. Both in PK, as in PVE.

 

At the same time, people who chose to not buy pickpoints (which is their good right, just as well), will be slightly more restricted to fighting mobs that are closer to their own levels. Or they could use their wits and find other means to still get the mob down (we have a wide range of armors, weapons, potions, essences, medallions available to all of us, and let's not forget the social aspect of an MMO: teamwork/collaberation).

Edited October 14, 2009 by Dilly

[Dugur]

On test I did notice a slightly better performance blockwise when having char with no reaction and a/d above monster. So to me it seems that you can fight better the monsters you're supposed to be able to fight with.

 

That is for mid level stuff like feros dcw etc. What does worry a bit is the top level performance change. I hear of eternal fights where you only burn essence. Killing red dragon 2 restores doesn't sound so much different, atm they are killed by some with ~4 restores(?) and they have the a/d to have them for breakfast. What comes to ice dragon, now that sounds a bit funny I don't mind the top being able to kill them in team.

 

But overall opinion of mine... what the idea is and what this would bring - doesn't seem worth it. It's eternal lands, or eternal grinds, and eventually the char base will be stronger (if the game stays addictive/fun to play) Looking at PK the current system makes it possible for anyone to kill anyone if the player knows what they're doing. With a year of playing you can take out anyone (not necessarily one on one melee fight and repeatedly, but with sneakyness it's still doable)

 

PP buying is not a problem in eternal game. Those that are against it often see the game optimum situation when you have trained a/d up, have nice oa and spend pps to match your fighting strategy and go fighting. Get beaten, train more, earn cash, spend cash, go fight. Constant competition where many can take part quite conveniently. For this view a person with +20 your a/d is ok, and obviously they'll have heap of oas more too np, but that they have additional 16-40 and + pps against you is a bit too much. The freshly trained 120's char with clean no reset oa has no chance, and is likely to get beaten by everyone else.

This thinking is also getting stuck in the past (some would say the glory days of PK) because now there's helluvalot more things to kill with (sorry, looking at it only on PK side atm) If someone tanks I can do constant 40-50 DPS with ranging and land fatal harm if they drop MI. Engineering will bring careless opponent to knees or just blow them to the skies. It costs a bit, but so do the swords and summoning.

 

So in modern battlefield the PP buying makes no difference if looking at it with ability to kill. It just makes other chars, those that have ambitious gamer, able to have maximum effectiveness in all areas. Atm they just happen to enjoy it the melee way. Eternal Lands as the name seems, well, endless. In unlimited time everyone will have maxed out char, just like a bunch of monkeys with typewriters will do all Shakespeare books eventually. What is needed is accepting the new face of battlefield and creating new strategies and most of all enhance the goddamn community general attitude towards eachother and PK.

 

This change on test does not work in my opinion (based on what I hear of pvp situations with top chars and assuming the change made on test is planned solution and not a in your face whiners ownage) There are more things to look at in the game. I still like the idea of a/d being more valuable in combat, but if it leads to a situation where you fight 15 minutes and run out of ings? To win you need to come in as a mule, unmule and equip fast and then enjoy the glorious victory of opponent having no HE left Or flee to a hyperbag?

[conavar]

but if it leads to a situation where you fight 15 minutes and run out of ings? To win you need to come in as a mule, unmule and equip fast and then enjoy the glorious victory of opponent having no HE left Or flee to a hyperbag?

 

The length of fights is a no win situation.... take to long and people complain it costs to much ..... are to short and people complain one item/spell is OPed (old bronze sword/harm).

 

IMHO a fight should last long enough so that the outcome is determined by skill not luck but how long is that 2 , 4 , 10 mins ?

[Dugur]

but if it leads to a situation where you fight 15 minutes and run out of ings? To win you need to come in as a mule, unmule and equip fast and then enjoy the glorious victory of opponent having no HE left Or flee to a hyperbag?

 

The length of fights is a no win situation.... take to long and people complain it costs to much ..... are to short and people complain one item/spell is OPed (old bronze sword/harm).

 

IMHO a fight should last long enough so that the outcome is determined by skill not luck but how long is that 2 , 4 , 10 mins ?

 

Ofc, but when I hear of situation where late 130's char fights against top5 char for this long it kinda sucks, no? I still wait for official results tho, but if what I am being told is true it stinks. I'll aim to stay silent until the situation of this kind of fight is brought to public in wide perspective

[conavar]

but if it leads to a situation where you fight 15 minutes and run out of ings? To win you need to come in as a mule, unmule and equip fast and then enjoy the glorious victory of opponent having no HE left Or flee to a hyperbag?

 

The length of fights is a no win situation.... take to long and people complain it costs to much ..... are to short and people complain one item/spell is OPed (old bronze sword/harm).

 

IMHO a fight should last long enough so that the outcome is determined by skill not luck but how long is that 2 , 4 , 10 mins ?

 

Ofc, but when I hear of situation where late 130's char fights against top5 char for this long it kinda sucks, no?

 

Long fights such as that happened before the TS changes, some fights are short, some are long there are to many variables (char Vs char builds, player skill, equipment usage etc ) to talk about a "perfect" fight length ... . or is it people upset that they might have to actually work to beat someone now ?

 

Length of fights isnt really a reason IMO to not like this idea (your other reasons in your post are valid views), since if length of fights is a factor we should remove all things that make fights to short aswell ... 8x ACW summons, uber harms etc (Note: I dont want them things removing,is just an example)

[aredhel]

I think the system is fine as it is, to have more than one way towards strength. Putting pickpoints on p/c comes with a cost, too - less nexuses to make items, taking negative perks, or long OA leveling. It's just kind of realistic that for example a pea-brained cyclops with big physique can own you even when you are a very clever defender, unless you have the blocking armor or are very tough or have strong physique of your own.

 

However, for my low p/c char it wouldn't make much difference to see more emphasis on a/d she would actually benefit from that ;-)

 

 

Rsp: "pick point buying"

 

I'd like to see the amount of nexuses limited that can be bought at costel. Thinking of a maximum like ~24 which is still a lot even for the hardcore grinders. Reason: it's too big of a work sink for the eager competitors, plus those who buy gc for $$ have a limit there, too, otherwise they could theoretically buy 100 pick points for dollars (having hundreds of steel bar making slaves in game).

Don't know if anyone has already bought that many, they should get the invested hydro bars back of course :-)

[dipi]

...I'm worried about a matter that didn't was tested. The instances.

 

IMO these changes will cap the number of people able to fight on instances (maybe for noob instance only 75-80 will be able, but not weaker), reducing the number of teams.

[Wizzy]

One thing that I find that makes testing a bit hard, is astro also.

 

I havent yet, but do recommend people that will test to take skeptic perk as a/d criticals etc are changing all the time

[Ozmondius]

I noticed a small change for the positive in training yeti on test. I seemed to block a bit more and absorb a bit more damage.

 

Where I noticed a marked difference was in PK. I fought kgxjeff, asgnny, and amar.

 

Jeff is around 10 a/d levels higher than I am and many many more pps ahead of me. He was able to put very little pressure on me during the fight. Given infinite supplies, I could have fought him forever.

 

AMAR is also around 10 a/d levels higher than me and maybe a few more OA, not sure where we stand pp-wise, however. AMAR was able to put a bit more pressure on me than Jeff, but in the end, after a prolonged period, I was able to make him dis.

 

Asgnny is light years ahead of me in a/d and attributes. He used a halberd most of the time and put a fair amount of pressure on me, but I had no problems fighting him until I ran completely out of HE.

 

These are bad results in my opinion. There is no way I should be able to stay in a fight with these ubber players for this length of time in reasonable comfort. These three players should be able to put enormous pressure on me in a one on one fight, given the disparity in a/d and attributes. From what I was able to observe it was a combination of blocking and absorbing damage that lead to the extended 15 min + fights. I couldn't say which was the larger factor.

 

I don't see any need for a change in the first place. Everyone has the same opportunity to work within the current system to their benefit. If they choose not to take advantage of what is available to them when others do, that's no cause to revamp the system.

Edited October 14, 2009 by Ozmondius

[PaulB]

dont like :>

seems weird when i test it

 

Could you be more specific as to your definition of "weird"?

 

For someone that tested this it doesn't seem like your interested in giving input but I among others would love to hear some other points of view please.

[bigkav]

The current change on test server, has only weakened the effect of attr's iirc from radu. he hasn't adjusted the weight of a/d afaik.

[Dugur]

These are bad results in my opinion. There is no way I should be able to stay in a fight with these ubber players for this length of time in reasonable comfort. These three players should be able to put enormous pressure on me in a one on one fight, given the disparity in a/d and attributes. From what I was able to observe it was a combination of blocking and absorbing damage that lead to the extended 15 min + fights. I couldn't say which was the larger factor.

 

Used IDA's? How does it go with titanium plate and great sword combination?

[conavar]

The current change on test server, has only weakened the effect of attr's iirc from radu. he hasn't adjusted the weight of a/d afaik.

 

If that is the case (and only Radu can confirm what changes he made) and from oz's results it seems that attributes held WAY to much weight compared to a/d, and any weight removed from att's should be moved into a/d..... then those 3 players can go back to kicking oz's butt but that will because of the a/d differance rather than attributes.

[Ozmondius]

BTW, I agree that a/d should make more of a difference than attributes and it currently does, if I'm understanding it correctly. 1 att=2 pps placed in coord or reasoning; 1 def=2 pps placed in coord or instinct. So an att or def level has 2x more effect than one OA/pp. Coord is kind of an exception as 2 pps placed increases both hit and dodge. Couldn't this ratio just be adjusted to nerf attributes and increase the power of att/def? My observations about not liking the results is just based on this particular implementation, not the idea of it.

Edited October 14, 2009 by Ozmondius

[Lorck]

BTW, I agree that a/d should make more of a difference than attributes and it currently does, if I'm understanding it correctly. 1 att=2 pps placed in coord or reasoning; 1 def=2 pps placed in coord or instinct. So an att or def level has 2x more effect than one OA/pp.

The attack and defense (on the main server, right now) matter as much as the dexterity and reaction cross attributes for purposes of hitting and dodging, not for purpose of damage. But when you buy the dexterity and reaction cross attribs via pick points you don't get only those cross-attributes, but others which are quite nice to have in my opinion, like perception for ranging, charm for summoning, and rationality for magic.

 

And about nerfing cross-attribs vs increasing effect of a/d, both have similar effect on pk in my opinion, but different effects on PvE since several monsters have way above cap attributes.

[Ozmondius]

On a side note, it doesn't help the testing when you have noobs on high level chars in there md'ing harming using osomn, setting wards, and ranging you when you're trying to test.

Edited October 14, 2009 by Ozmondius

[Entropy]

On a side note, it doesn't help the testing when you have noobs on high level chars in there md'ing harming using osomn, setting wards, and ranging you when you're trying to test.

 

I disagree, I think that can be a 'real life' situation, so testing should be done under all circumstances.