Dugur Report post Posted September 20, 2009 SO I guess I could say, fighters are overpowerd because 20 a/ders can take up all the fluffy spawnsYou must be joking. Even if you aren't joking, lets see: the guy needs (1)a COL;(2) a great sword; (3) some other armor and cape;(4)a good level in magic, so he wont fail restore. Even so, it would be pretty risky. So yes, COL, great swords, 49 magic, everything a newbie with 20/20 a/d can have easily; Actually the char was 18/7, 21 magic and using augs+iron helm with a cape and a great sword = week or two maximum. Build and items aren't too hard to figure out. The game mechanics just allow it and same stuff turned to PvP instead of PvE has been talked ages ago - any noob can kill anyone, the odds are just smaller. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Miiks Report post Posted September 20, 2009 *Cough*DugurTookMyPkiAFewTimes*cough* *cough*i have seen 5x mana drain ward in last 2 days used in PK*cough* Ok Then I'm just outdated Anyway you can't really compare dug to "real" mages, since he has high a/d too. He's been working really hard to make the char as powerful as it's now.. But those mages with 50's a/d and high rationality aren't big risk IMO. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lorck Report post Posted September 20, 2009 SO I guess I could say, fighters are overpowerd because 20 a/ders can take up all the fluffy spawnsYou must be joking. Even if you aren't joking, lets see: the guy needs (1)a COL;(2) a great sword; (3) some other armor and cape;(4)a good level in magic, so he wont fail restore. Even so, it would be pretty risky. So yes, COL, great swords, 49 magic, everything a newbie with 20/20 a/d can have easily; Actually the char was 18/7, 21 magic and using augs+iron helm with a cape and a great sword = week or two maximum. Build and items aren't too hard to figure out. The game mechanics just allow it and same stuff turned to PvP instead of PvE has been talked ages ago - any noob can kill anyone, the odds are just smaller. My point was that a "normal" noob would never kill a fluff with 20/20. What noob goes around selling flowers to make gc, and then buy expensive armor, and build their magic before they build a/d?Anyway you can't really compare dug to "real" mages, since he has high a/d too.Why not? To be considered a mage you have to actually suck at everything else? Read above my suggestion to the "mages", to get some a/d first, to build some overall. A fighter needs to have a half decent magic skill. A mage must do only magic??But those mages with 50's a/d and high rationality aren't big risk IMO.They are not big risk at KF, or similar map, but they are harmful at the whole PvE in pk maps... i mean killing monsters in pk map got a lot more expensive with the arrival of the "mages with 50 magic", so you need to cast MI very often. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dugur Report post Posted September 20, 2009 (edited) It is just sad that the small player base in EL makes illusion of PK maps being safe. You go in PK map, you are supposed to be ready to defend yourself from other players. It doesn't matter if it's a "mage" a noob or what not. Very few check PK maps actively, average PKer goes to KF and holds hands. Now that we have ppl checking maps we get the talk of "mages" and especially alt ones. Stated annoyance is that a person can come invis and harm you to death assuming you are in a PK map unprepared. Why unprepared? Where is the MI or TS? Now someone can come telling they cost too much and a magic user can kill you too cheap. Sure, dig out anything you can to call for nerf or to get safety in PK maps. It is endless BS, this isn't game where everything is equal. Omg tailoring is so unjustified skill. Omg ranging is shit to lvl. Omg I am a fighter and die to opponent using 500gc. I don't see this matter as a mage issue only. It is issue of illusion of safety in PK maps due to too small group of active player killing ppl. Now that we have few more of them we get the talk. It's just convenient they chose to use magic, we make it possible not bothering MI or TS. How about we remove harm from game. Someone blows you up with a mine. Boo-hoo. Someone nails you with arrows. Boo-hoo. Both can be done invis. Ah not to mention the OMFG SUMMONER. Ofc summoner doesn't count because that skill costs, oui? Not to forget my favourite of them all, the invis broder. But heeey, we can ignore most of these because of the cost of equipment? Funny is, I never heard a person whine on PK server for dying from harm. And yes, I can harm 200+ with pots. I am still not a mage but an allarounder. If this game had more players that PK there wouldn't be this talk imo. You could go in PK area and chill out there for hours and still see no one. Now that there suddenly is a threat that can in some cases kill you fast... They could be top a/d with sword+arrow (using arrow with weapon is OP omgno?) with spells and rings, but they can't be arsed from the pvp marathon or yeti queue (or they have alt to do the shit)(not to be taken too seriously). On the other hand, if there was a chance to find someone in a PK area, maybe more ppl would look at them? Just remove the harm spell being castable on players and make Life Drain do damage even if you have full hp. We still have combat spell for PvP, you will suck at it without rationality, and uber magic won't make it OP. Mage issue solved. Then we just wait for the engineers on a killing spree. Edited September 20, 2009 by Dugur Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Peach Report post Posted September 20, 2009 Your logic is flawed. 90 a/d'er, no matter his attributes will beat 25 a/d char np. But I do see where you're coming from. EDIT: Actually, in the current system, a newb with 25 a/d wielding a bronze sword could potentially crit-to-death the 90 a/d'er. when i was level 40 i once beat the shit out of a 85a/d fully geared and i got his steel set and col but it is true that i'm unique and mages are easy to pwn =( Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wizzy Report post Posted September 20, 2009 It is just sad that the small player base in EL makes illusion of PK maps being safe. You go in PK map, you are supposed to be ready to defend yourself from other players. It doesn't matter if it's a "mage" a noob or what not. Very few check PK maps actively, average PKer goes to KF and holds hands. Now that we have ppl checking maps we get the talk of "mages" and especially alt ones. Stated annoyance is that a person can come invis and harm you to death assuming you are in a PK map unprepared. Why unprepared? Where is the MI or TS?Now someone can come telling they cost too much and a magic user can kill you too cheap. Sure, dig out anything you can to call for nerf or to get safety in PK maps. It is endless BS, this isn't game where everything is equal. Omg tailoring is so unjustified skill. Omg ranging is shit to lvl. Omg I am a fighter and die to opponent using 500gc. I don't see this matter as a mage issue only. It is issue of illusion of safety in PK maps due to too small group of active player killing ppl. Now that we have few more of them we get the talk. It's just convenient they chose to use magic, we make it possible not bothering MI or TS. How about we remove harm from game. Someone blows you up with a mine. Boo-hoo. Someone nails you with arrows. Boo-hoo. Both can be done invis. Ah not to mention the OMFG SUMMONER. Ofc summoner doesn't count because that skill costs, oui? Not to forget my favourite of them all, the invis broder. But heeey, we can ignore most of these because of the cost of equipment? Funny is, I never heard a person whine on PK server for dying from harm. And yes, I can harm 200+ with pots. I am still not a mage but an allarounder. If this game had more players that PK there wouldn't be this talk imo. You could go in PK area and chill out there for hours and still see no one. Now that there suddenly is a threat that can in some cases kill you fast... They could be top a/d with sword+arrow (using arrow with weapon is OP omgno?) with spells and rings, but they can't be arsed from the pvp marathon or yeti queue (or they have alt to do the shit)(not to be taken too seriously). On the other hand, if there was a chance to find someone in a PK area, maybe more ppl would look at them? Just remove the harm spell being castable on players and make Life Drain do damage even if you have full hp. We still have combat spell for PvP, you will suck at it without rationality, and uber magic won't make it OP. Mage issue solved. Then we just wait for the engineers on a killing spree. NIcely said Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nathanstenzel Report post Posted September 20, 2009 (edited) Using Ticklemonster at the moment. I didn't see a post about it, but did Radu already adjust the damage from the harm spell? That or my memory was off. I thought I did 80 damage using harm and now it is about 38. I just tried it on a grizzly and a phantom. 34 Rationality and level 25 magic, by the way. Seriously, I have my will maxed out and have no physique. Anyone fearing me in PK would have to be a wuss or have only about 80 life. Edited September 20, 2009 by nathanstenzel Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nathanstenzel Report post Posted September 20, 2009 I heard someone quoting Radu on channel six. Is this resolved already? Via magic protection spell instead of harm? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lorck Report post Posted September 20, 2009 (edited) It is just sad that the small player base in EL makes illusion of PK maps being safe. You go in PK map, you are supposed to be ready to defend yourself from other players.Nobody said the PK in EL should be safe, the pk in EL should be fair.Now someone can come telling they cost too much and a magic user can kill you too cheap. Sure, dig out anything you can to call for nerf or to get safety in PK maps. It is endless BS, this isn't game where everything is equal.Way to cheap i may add. There are some guys who don't wear armor, and only a few essences, they go to pk maps looking for people that are fighting monsters and are wearing good armor & rosto. So if the guy who is training on monster dies, he loses rosto (or armor), if the "mage" dies he loses nothing... it seems to be very fair....Someone blows you up with a mine. Boo-hoo. Someone nails you with arrows. Boo-hoo. Both can be done invis. Ah not to mention the OMFG SUMMONER. Ofc summoner doesn't count because that skill costs, oui? Not to forget my favourite of them all, the invis broder. But heeey, we can ignore most of these because of the cost of equipment?Engineering, summoning, fighting all have inherent costs... you cant go around naked carrying only a few essences. Furthermore, if you are fast enough, you can dis the fighter/summoner/broder. You can't really dis a harm.If this game had more players that PK there wouldn't be this talk imo. You could go in PK area and chill out there for hours and still see no one.People usually say my experience is from a long dead pk environment. But as i said in an earlier post, i made most of my exp in pk zones. And there were active pkers, even outside kf. Yes, people checked other pk maps which had monsters. Yes, they attacked me. And i attacked them (if they were enemy) when they were killing monsters to get the spawn... and it was loads and loads of fun. I lost many rostos while doing that, and it was not safe at all, but it was fun indeed. Now you can't seriously cast MI ALL THE TIME if you are not killing high drop monsters. And the pk maps get empty, less fun for everyone. Btw, magic should be still powerful by itself. I made some suggestions in my first post in this thread to solve many of the problems i mentioned above without taking too much power of the magic skill. I heard someone quoting Radu on channel six. Is this resolved already?I think he needs a server update to solve the issues.Via magic protection spell instead of harm?This shows why people should not fear you in pk maps. He probably said he will use magic protection items to try to diminish the power of the harm spell. And it works beautifully in a theoretical point of view: the "hardcore" pkers should still cast MI on kf (and not use it as an irc channel) since they need good armor without magic protection to not get pwned by thermal serp, and the trainers on pk maps should be able to not die in 1 hit from an invi naked mage if wearing some magic resistance stuff. Edited September 20, 2009 by Lorck Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nathanstenzel Report post Posted September 21, 2009 Well, Lorck, I actually meant they should not fear a character like my ticklemonster character. I don't claim to know half of the pk tricks. Not even after they were used on me or I chat with a while with a pro fighter. The fight is not in me. I prefer to hammer things out with my blacksmith hammer and run a great guild and stuff. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Miiks Report post Posted September 21, 2009 Anyway you can't really compare dug to "real" mages, since he has high a/d too.Why not? To be considered a mage you have to actually suck at everything else? Read above my suggestion to the "mages", to get some a/d first, to build some overall. A fighter needs to have a half decent magic skill. A mage must do only magic?? You didn't get my point. I don't say dug isn't mage, just pointing how you can't build good mage char in few weeks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeddicul Report post Posted September 21, 2009 I wonder howmany of you fighters actually know of first hand howhard it is to lvl magic and the cost of it. I have low a/d, few coord 39 rationality and still cant do harms over 120 on good astro days, and my mag lvl is 70+, maybe i'm just a n00b still cos i dunno about PK but my fighter alt is cheaper to train and make more gc to pay the cost of training than i can. It takes ages of training with MD/LD sessions becos simple MD sessions with players will force me to buy gc for $ which i don't have. I consider myself of a "pure" mage but gaining pp's is much harder then for any other player and as we discussed before, MI is there to safe you in pk maps. If you cant stand getting owned by any other player imho you shouldn't be in pk. Some like to hunt down others using brute force, others spend lots of $$ to get special weapons, summoners spent lots of time to lvl (even tho i am sure most ppl use summoning stones) and mages use their offensive spells. I have assisted several strong fighters hunting down dragons and they nvr complayned, now there are some real ebul mages (and even more ebul fighters that hunt you while invisible in pk training spots) we all start complaining again...? IMHO training should never be safe when you are in a pk map. live with it and use the opportunity, maybe you might find a way to wipe out those ebul mages. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lorck Report post Posted September 21, 2009 I wonder howmany of you fighters actually know of first hand howhard it is to lvl magic and the cost of it.Try building some OA before becoming a "mage"? I don't understand, but every other character "type" in EL needs to have some magic skill, but now "pure mages" needs to have only magic?I have low a/d, few coord 39 rationality and still cant do harms over 120 on good astro days, and my mag lvl is 70+Then you can use the harm bug and deal 240+ in less than 0.1sec.If you cant stand getting owned by any other player imho you shouldn't be in pk. Some like to hunt down others using brute force, others spend lots of $$ to get special weapons, summoners spent lots of time to lvl (even tho i am sure most ppl use summoning stones) and mages use their offensive spells. I have assisted several strong fighters hunting down dragons and they nvr complayned, now there are some real ebul mages (and even more ebul fighters that hunt you while invisible in pk training spots) we all start complaining again...?Well, the invisible "ebul" mages probably are not pwing much, since nobody is crazy (no MI on all the time)or rich (MI on all the time)enough to afford to go to pk maps to train nowadays.IMHO training should never be safe when you are in a pk map. live with it and use the opportunity, maybe you might find a way to wipe out those ebul mages.Then probably in your opinion the spawns on pk maps should all be wiped (since they are mostly unused anyways) and new spawns on non-pk maps should be added. Train on pk maps was loads of fun, but i can live without that. What i really cant stand is the lack of spawns, and when there are good free spawns, you can't really train without spending tons of gc in mag essences, energy essences and SRs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mango Report post Posted September 21, 2009 Go back to where you came from Lorck. You're spamming the forums with common sense. It won't help. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigkav Report post Posted September 22, 2009 I wonder how many of you fighters actually know of first hand how hard it is to lvl magic and the cost of it. tbh, personally while building my mage char it wasn't hard at all. killed many many top 10, farmed rostos from hulda, I joined a guild that had ^@^ allied and they ended the alliance because I was "charming" (harm misspelled) them in PK maps. Best thing; Max ration, always get your 1hr harv exp, train a/d (even serp is decent if you're looking for GCs) and then buy diamonds/silver mix Air Ess and go serp bears or w/e. I had a mage which was prolly before everyone started the mage alts phase (dugur inspired mine). I did alot of PvE w/SenZ & Frost which was decent GCs and to tbh the numerous drops I got in PK maps paid my essences & training ^^ that probably has alot of mistakes and probably doesn't make sense but I type much faster then I can think Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nathanstenzel Report post Posted September 22, 2009 Perhaps the real gripe here is about mages with near Maximum rationality. You guys have no idea how hard it is to max out rationality, do you? It took ages to max just Will on ticklemonster. Of course, harvesting helps. Still, if you want a pickpoint for something else, you are screwed for ages. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigkav Report post Posted September 22, 2009 You guys have no idea how hard it is to max out rationality, do you? Obviously I do, or I wouldn't be posting input here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KoDdy Report post Posted September 23, 2009 I would decrease points they r u harming for,and would increase that to restor,remove heal , or to heals etc -Koddy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HaZe Report post Posted September 23, 2009 I dont have time to read all topic but i read few firsts replies. For me mages arent overpowered. All people think its easy to be mage (they think they will do 20 a/d full ratio, 40 magic in 1 day and you can kill all ) for sure to be good mage you need lots gc if you have paypal it could be easy but if you want to make money by yourself it isnt easy because you have often 200-400 emu and 0 nexuses also all negative perks. This way i will say summoners are overpowered you can get "easy" 50 lvl summ then summon 8 acw and pwn all with top a/d players. I think maybe warlock cloak should adding for example 15 magic protection but other things should not be change as wizzy tell we have a lot of iteams to protect. Magic Immunity and TS is pro also giving magic xp Also its hard to be mage because for example you are 60's a/d player with low p/c and player with 20-30 a/d with good p/c can easy pwn you so maybe fighters are overpowered? Fighter with bronze+ mirror is too overpowered. It isnt easy to got full r/w - 88 pickpoints. Maybe it would be easy if you have good a/d +good magic + good money but if you have all of it you will be good fighter too. Sorry for my crap english Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lorck Report post Posted September 23, 2009 I dont have time to read all topic but i read few firsts replies.For me mages arent overpowered. All people think its easy to be mage (they think they will do 20 a/d full ratio, 40 magic in 1 day and you can kill all ) for sure to be good mage you need lots gc if you have paypal You can train A/D/alch a bit, get high emu, train magic, then reset and max rationality/will. Not rocket science. If people WANT to level a mage as a pure mage from beggining by a philosophical/rpgist point of view, no problem, but don't cry then. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dugur Report post Posted September 23, 2009 But the main issue has been omfg mage alts pwn all, omfg you make mage alt in month to kill all EL etc. HaZe knows, he has one. The idea of OP talk of mages started mainly to the frustration from lack of interest/ability/ficus-training in using MI and dying to a "noob OP alt." Me, Sonic, Gohan are/were more lethal and still didn't get it to boil up. Note, adding some magic resistance to an item won't stop you from dying to harm from real pro. One point of res - one point of damage gives you possibly a second longer to react, but since everyone seems to be in console or on their alt mage window when in PK area they die anyway. I'm really looking forward to see how the magic protection spell will work tweaked. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HaZe Report post Posted September 23, 2009 But the main issue has been omfg mage alts pwn all, omfg you make mage alt in month to kill all EL etc.HaZe knows, he has one. The idea of OP talk of mages started mainly to the frustration from lack of interest/ability/ficus-training in using MI and dying to a "noob OP alt." Me, Sonic, Gohan are/were more lethal and still didn't get it to boil up. Note, adding some magic resistance to an item won't stop you from dying to harm from real pro. One point of res - one point of damage gives you possibly a second longer to react, but since everyone seems to be in console or on their alt mage window when in PK area they die anyway. I'm really looking forward to see how the magic protection spell will work tweaked. I agree with you. Mages are how fighters/rangers/summoners never overpowered. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doctorr Report post Posted September 23, 2009 This Topic if very funny. If mage harm You 120+ its very bad and u go forum and make topic.. But when Fighter Hit a mage 140s by Bronze Sword + Fire arrows its good.. pff.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HaZe Report post Posted September 23, 2009 True and to hit mage you dont need good a/d mages usually have low cord Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nathanstenzel Report post Posted September 23, 2009 You guys have no idea how hard it is to max out rationality, do you? Obviously I do, or I wouldn't be posting input here. Yeah. I hear you did max out your rationality. Not sure if that is true or not. Never looked at the stats and I doubt your privacy is turned off to look at the stats. Some of these other people posting in here....I doubt they ever maxed out will or reason. This Topic if very funny. If mage harm You 120+ its very bad and u go forum and make topic.. But when Fighter Hit a mage 140s by Bronze Sword + Fire arrows its good.. pff.. Thanks for bringing that up. Very good point. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites