Mages

[nathanstenzel]

Not many mages can farm dragons

Not many mages can harvest huge amounts of Iron ore /gypsum etc

 

You do understand that mages are good at certain things, and piss poor at others right?

I believe the people complaining are the pkers. They probably don't even consider anything else than the pk aspects of things or don't think the other things are important, so they don't care and just wish to convince people to make things better for them.

 

It seems some of these people are even confusing mages and summoners. Not all summoners are mages and not all mages are summoners.

 

I am surprised this thread is even going on since nobody cares enough about the truth of the topic to take me up on my offer to demonstrate what is and what is not true about newb mages. I was offering to use ticklemonster to demonstrate the truth of things.

[DogBreath]

I think it's great this thread even appeared. Just think, this time last year there was no such thing as a mage

 

As with all MMORPGs things will constantly need tuning, it's nearly impossible to balance things perfectly...

 

I think Radu should get kudos for making the magic changes such that this could even occur, so, let's give him a break and let him tune it?

[PaulB]

Not many mages can farm dragons

Not many mages can harvest huge amounts of Iron ore /gypsum etc

 

You do understand that mages are good at certain things, and piss poor at others right?

I believe the people complaining are the pkers. They probably don't even consider anything else than the pk aspects of things or don't think the other things are important, so they don't care and just wish to convince people to make things better for them.

 

Maybe the people complaining about mages are PKers because it's the PKers being OP by mages, no?

 

I mean really nathan...

 

Sense when did a mage pop up from invisi and harm you to death in 1 shot while you sat and manufactured some leather helms at sto?

 

Now when I say "OP by mages" I am not saying I am for or against the mage the way it is now. tbh I haven't really encountered a problem with them because I keep my MI on 99% of the time in PK areas.

 

In no way should a mixer be complaining about the mages because I cannot think of one way they they are affected by them (well I bet they certainly keep the sales of certain essences going though )

 

I say everyone has a right to put in some valid input as to their thoughts but your statement above seems bias by previous threads where PKers and mixers cannot agree on some issues.

[Lorck]

I believe the people complaining are the pkers. They probably don't even consider anything else than the pk aspects of things or don't think the other things are important, so they don't care and just wish to convince people to make things better for them.

Do you know that there are MAGES PKERS? I am tired of fighters asking the mixers to shut up in fighter related issues, and the mixers saying that if the fighters want something, is because they want it to their own advantage...

 

Maybe some fighters want the better of the game, instead? Read some of my suggestions above.

 

EDIT: Maybe we can appreciate the opinions of others independently of if they are fighter or manuer or mage or summoner or w/e.

It seems some of these people are even confusing mages and summoners. Not all summoners are mages and not all mages are summoners.

LOL. PKers mages and pkers summoners (tico, lightlan, tigerclaw, etc) are not rare at all in pk maps. If there is a group of players who know some stuff about summoning or magic, specially in pk maps, are pkers.

I am surprised this thread is even going on since nobody cares enough about the truth of the topic to take me up on my offer to demonstrate what is and what is not true about newb mages. I was offering to use ticklemonster to demonstrate the truth of things.

Its the truth for you, you know people can disagree. And if some people disagrees, it can be because they want advantages, OR because they disagree with you in a genuine way. Claiming that you know the "truth" and the others only want "easier stuff", shows only arrogance, nothing more. Edited September 18, 2009 by Lorck

[bigkav]

Well it's pretty damn obvious nathanstenzel is bias against anyone who calls themselves a PKer, it shows in many different threads.

Ticklemonster has 34 rationality and 25 magic level. I do have a formula for how harm is calculated, and it's pretty accurate.

With that being said, ticklemonster can harm the same and more then someone with 90 magic and 8 rationality.

Level 0 to 25 exp needed.

L25-L0 = 98780

Level 0 to 90 exp needed.

L90-L0 = 26841147

 

26841147/98780 = 271.73. The player has 271 times more experience then ticklemonster, yet he still harms less.

 

I think it's pretty much obvious that harm should be more magic level dependent.

[Inglor]

Training a mage in very exspensive. SO is training summoning but I do not complain when people use ACs to PKing.

 

Anyways it is part of the game. If it take a month to become one then what I am doing wrong. I bought 100$ worth of bindings and sold them to get a head start, gc=exp, been training pretty much 12 hours a day for 2 monthes and still am not there. Not even close.

Edited September 18, 2009 by Inglor

[bigkav]

12 hours a day for 2 months and buying GCs and you're still not there? then your obviously doing something very wrong.

[rutuliukas]

Training a mage in very exspensive. SO is training summoning but I do not complain when people use ACs to PKing.

 

Anyways it is part of the game. If it take a month to become one then what I am doing wrong. I bought 100$ worth of bindings and sold them to get a head start, gc=exp, been training pretty much 12 hours a day for 2 monthes and still am not there. Not even close.

 

 

in 2 mounths even w/o gc you can get preaty hight mage...

 

EDIT: for thous gc you got you could buy 100k air ess what would give you 4 mils of magic xp ...

Edited September 18, 2009 by rutuliukas

[bigkav]

Training a mage in very exspensive. SO is training summoning but I do not complain when people use ACs to PKing.

 

Anyways it is part of the game. If it take a month to become one then what I am doing wrong. I bought 100$ worth of bindings and sold them to get a head start, gc=exp, been training pretty much 12 hours a day for 2 monthes and still am not there. Not even close.

in 2 mounths even w/o gc you can get preaty hight mage...

Especially at 12 hours a day...

[groomsh]

Well it's pretty damn obvious nathanstenzel is bias against anyone who calls themselves a PKer, it shows in many different threads.

Ticklemonster has 34 rationality and 25 magic level. I do have a formula for how harm is calculated, and it's pretty accurate.

With that being said, ticklemonster can harm the same and more then someone with 90 magic and 8 rationality.

Level 0 to 25 exp needed.

L25-L0 = 98780

Level 0 to 90 exp needed.

L90-L0 = 26841147

 

26841147/98780 = 271.73. The player has 271 times more experience then ticklemonster, yet he still harms less.

 

I think it's pretty much obvious that harm should be more magic level dependent.

 

With 34 rationality, you need at least 60 OAs (if i don't count neg perks)

48 will and 20 reasoning gives you 130 health and 208 mana, BUT your EMU is limited to 80...

 

Now with weight of SRs and all essies you need, it's useless. It's ok that this char has a chance to score big amounts of damage, because if he fails he is dead in no time. Not speaking about the fact that this char is not able to do anything else.

And as it was already said (numerous times), you have MI that eliminates almost all risks... In 99% it's fault of the PKer that he is not able to keep MI on.

 

Also considering your 25 level "mage" to 90 level "mage" is the same as comparing someone with 25 a/d but high stats to someone with 90 a/d with low stats ...

[bigkav]

Your logic is flawed. 90 a/d'er, no matter his attributes will beat 25 a/d char np. But I do see where you're coming from.

 

EDIT: Actually, in the current system, a newb with 25 a/d wielding a bronze sword could potentially crit-to-death the 90 a/d'er.

Edited September 18, 2009 by Luigi

[Wizzy]

Your logic is flawed. 90 a/d'er, no matter his attributes will beat 25 a/d char np. But I do see where you're coming from.

 

EDIT: Actually, in the current system, a newb with 25 a/d wielding a bronze sword could potentially crit-to-death the 90 a/d'er.

 

I saw a 19A 7D player killing fluffys with ease, And no need to resort to bronze, there are lots of tools avaible

 

(yes was a pro players alt) but it is possible with the right build and equipment to kill just about anything. Criticals, BP/mirror capes,

 

So does this mean BP cape and stars med are over powerd?

[bigkav]

Lol. 19 a/d and can restore? With the best gear i'm sure he could do it with ease. (gear that cost 100k+) but with mage, it's just 3 DE, 5 HE. soon enough, I plan to build another mage and show just how devastating they can be. I won't debate about them any more, i'll make it living proof.

[Wizzy]

Lol. 19 a/d and can restore? With the best gear i'm sure he could do it with ease. (gear that cost 100k+) but with mage, it's just 3 DE, 5 HE. soon enough, I plan to build another mage and show just how devastating they can be. I won't debate about them any more, i'll make it living proof.

 

Yep best gear of Leather set (no augmented) COL and a great sword (I wont tell you which one, because you should be able to figure it out for yourself)

 

You see. the difference between players fighting players, is traditionaly (before level caps) there was 1 way to build a charater.

 

16w/v 24-30p and how ever many PP you can scratch up to put on C

 

A mage with 35 magic level and 48 rationality, will not do much damage to a mage with 50 magic level and 48 rationality

 

Two fighters with the same a/d and differenent builds have certain advantages over each other

 

SO I guess I could say, fighters are overpowerd because 20 a/ders can take up all the fluffy spawns

 

I should add, that sure, a mage with a few HE and DE can go kill anything in game, if they are fast, know how to take damage etc. However, problem being you cant take many DE/HE srs with you. It certainly doesnt pay to try to farm awc, gaints with magic.

 

So your Logic is flawed imo

 

Wiz

Edited September 18, 2009 by Wizzy

[bigkav]

You are entitled to your opinion mate. They do need a tad bit of nerfing, but not much more then the bronze sword has had, err will have*.

[Wizzy]

You are entitled to your opinion mate. They do need a tad bit of nerfing, but not much more then the bronze sword has had, err will have*.

 

Radu has already stated that magic protection will get some adjustments.

 

Lets see how that goes first?

[bigkav]

I meant PvE-wise.

[Inglor]

Training a mage in very exspensive. SO is training summoning but I do not complain when people use ACs to PKing.

 

Anyways it is part of the game. If it take a month to become one then what I am doing wrong. I bought 100$ worth of bindings and sold them to get a head start, gc=exp, been training pretty much 12 hours a day for 2 monthes and still am not there. Not even close.

 

 

in 2 mounths even w/o gc you can get preaty hight mage...

 

EDIT: for thous gc you got you could buy 100k air ess what would give you 4 mils of magic xp ...

GOod luck with MD with mage lvl 0 Takes a whole lot of Matter essence to get to the lvl 40 for the mana drian. You also want to build other skills like Alc for more PP. You want to make a little extra gc, unless you want to continue to buy from shop. Yes 2 months

[bigkav]

That obviously proves how much thought you put into it as, there is much cheaper for exp ways to level magic. such as life drain. & I hear MI is good too, although personally I never tried it. You know, you might as well train ogres w/130 a/d in your logic, it's basically the same.

[Lorck]

SO I guess I could say, fighters are overpowerd because 20 a/ders can take up all the fluffy spawns

You must be joking. Even if you aren't joking, lets see: the guy needs (1)a COL;(2) a great sword; (3) some other armor and cape;(4)a good level in magic, so he wont fail restore. Even so, it would be pretty risky. So yes, COL, great swords, 49 magic, everything a newbie with 20/20 a/d can have easily;

I should add, that sure, a mage with a few HE and DE can go kill anything in game, if they are fast, know how to take damage etc. However, problem being you cant take many DE/HE srs with you. It certainly doesnt pay to try to farm awc, gaints with magic.

Why not try a hybrid build? Like have trained a bit combat, till lets say 90's a/d, train magic till a decent level using the fighters' emu, then reset, get some p/c, and then max will/reasoning. It would result in a MUCH more solid character in the end. But people don't do that, its just easier to build a mage which only do magic and run around naked. Edited September 18, 2009 by Lorck

[Wizzy]

SO I guess I could say, fighters are overpowerd because 20 a/ders can take up all the fluffy spawns

You must be joking. Even if you aren't joking, lets see: the guy needs (1)a COL;(2) a great sword; (3) some other armor and cape;(4)a good level in magic, so he wont fail restore. Even so, it would be pretty risky. So yes, COL, great swords, 49 magic, everything a newbie with 20/20 a/d can have easily;

I should add, that sure, a mage with a few HE and DE can go kill anything in game, if they are fast, know how to take damage etc. However, problem being you cant take many DE/HE srs with you. It certainly doesnt pay to try to farm awc, gaints with magic.

Why not try a hybrid build? Like have trained a bit combat, till lets say 90's a/d, train magic till a decent level using the fighters' emu, then reset, get some p/c, and then max will/reasoning. It would result in a MUCH more solid character in the end. But people don't do that, its just easier to build a mage which only do magic and run around naked.

 

 

Yes of course I mentioned that the example above was a pr0 players alt, Yes I know that most new players cant do it, that doesnt make it impossible does it.

 

Why not try a Hybrid? Sure feel free to try what ever you like, I like Wizzy the way Wizzy is ^^

 

you say "Why not train to 90's a/d and then take some p/c" no need

 

And Having built a few charaters up over the years, I can tell you it is not easier to build a successfull mage then it is to build a successfull fighter.

[Miiks]

Yes they are.

Simply ask yourself whom do you fear most in a PK area - a fighter, a summoner or a mage? Answer 10 times out of 10 is mage.

(and yes summoners are way too powerful also)

Fighter. You can easily protect yourself from mages by using MI?

[Kaddy]

Yes they are.

Simply ask yourself whom do you fear most in a PK area - a fighter, a summoner or a mage? Answer 10 times out of 10 is mage.

(and yes summoners are way too powerful also)

Fighter. You can easily protect yourself from mages by using MI?

 

 

You always have a chance to run away from a fighter, because you have diss/tele/flee/tptpr etc because max they will hit is around 70's with bronzies, on the other hand, a mage can come invis and put a ward near you when you are not looking and can kill you in 2 harms which is 2 seconds? (i mean a serious mage ), ok imagine you realized the mage after you got harmed once and you used MI (or restore but you will prolly die if you restore first because s/he will keep harming and 1 sec rule will own you if you try to use MI ) and run or attack? both will make you move and your MI poof and you die? How can a fighter do that to you?

 

-Kaddy

[Miiks]

Yes they are.

Simply ask yourself whom do you fear most in a PK area - a fighter, a summoner or a mage? Answer 10 times out of 10 is mage.

(and yes summoners are way too powerful also)

Fighter. You can easily protect yourself from mages by using MI?

 

 

You always have a chance to run away from a fighter, because you have diss/tele/flee/tptpr etc because max they will hit is around 70's with bronzies, on the other hand, a mage can come invis and put a ward near you when you are not looking and can kill you in 2 harms which is 2 seconds? (i mean a serious mage ), ok imagine you realized the mage after you got harmed once and you used MI (or restore but you will prolly die if you restore first because s/he will keep harming and 1 sec rule will own you if you try to use MI ) and run or attack? both will make you move and your MI poof and you die? How can a fighter do that to you?

 

-Kaddy

How many times have you seen MI removing ward used in PK?

 

And dunno... Maybe I'd fear summoners more since they can summon 8 ACs at same time So I'll say summoner then

 

Edit: Anyway a fighter is only one who can take your PKi... And nowadays it's the only thing to lose in PK so...

Edited September 20, 2009 by Miiks

[Kaddy]

*Cough*DugurTookMyPkiAFewTimes*cough* *cough*i have seen 5x mana drain ward in last 2 days used in PK*cough*