Summoner Related Changes

[robotbob]

This poll was requested in regards to this >thread<, please read it before voting.

 

These changes are (hopefully) for balance, and not to overpower anyone.

So please take this in mind in voting, its about summoner VS mage(etc) player combat

balance.

 

If I missed anything and this poll is FUBAR, please quickly state why and what I missed.

I started it quickly to 'get the ball rolling' but I may have missed something

 

Thanks to TigerClaw for beginning the discussion.

[TigerClaw]

haha, thanks for making the poll

and whoot, got the 1st vote

 

everyone pls vote!!

 

-TigerClaw

[SenZon]

Also allow all partys to both heal and smite.

[revi]

Agreed with the suggestions, but

wouldn't it make more sense to have summons' MI depend on summoners magic level, not on his summon level?

 

(rationale: mages need summon level to attack summons, summoner must have high level already to get strong creatures for physical attack, so to defend against a magic attack, he should have a decent magic level as well)

[Entropy]

Agreed with the suggestions, but

wouldn't it make more sense to have summons' MI depend on summoners magic level, not on his summon level?

 

(rationale: mages need summon level to attack summons, summoner must have high level already to get strong creatures for physical attack, so to defend against a magic attack, he should have a decent magic level as well)

 

No, the idea is that if you want to do a shitload of damage to the enemy summoners you must also be a summoner. If the magic level is used, there is no point.

[Light Lan]

I'd also like the crossattribute charm to have an effect on the smite/heal summoned spells ;> or resistence to them

[asgnny]

Definitely some interesting ideas proposed in the original thread.

 

A few of the positive standouts, imho:

* increased resistance to smiting for summons produced by "summoners"

* heal summon for an allied guild's summons. (This would promote the idea of group vs. group fighting)

* new arrow to remove invisibility (of players)

 

If a ranger can negate invisibility, then by working together with a summoner, the summons can suddenly attack the dreaded mage alt.

 

Edit: I do not think it is a good idea to have something like ACW summons given true sight.

Edit 2: If charm is the key to a summon's resistance to smiting, think of the PKers with high vitality and instinct (thus charm). Summon level is probably a more balanced way to determine this factor.

Edited August 31, 2009 by asgnny

[dipi]

About True Sight i think ACs from invasions and from summoning must have it, but no the regular ones

Edited August 31, 2009 by dipi

[aredhel]

I think the arctic chims are already overpowered- better give TS to a "lesser" creature, i've specifically got the falcon in mind.

 

* heal summon for an allied guild's summons. (This would promote the idea of group vs. group fighting)

 

Sounds interesting to me - would make summons in a group much stronger if someone else than the summoner can heal them

 

* new arrow to remove invisibility (of players)

Yes, but then give the invis potion more durance or remove poison side effect as a counter balance.

 

Edit 2: If charm is the key to a summon's resistance to smiting, think of the PKers with high vitality and instinct (thus charm). Summon level is probably a more balanced way to determine this factor.

 

Maybe use charm to give summons excess power, not just criticals, but more inst/vit of their own

Edited August 31, 2009 by aredhel

[Chosen]

I voted:

 

#1

#1

#2

 

I plan on leveling summoning soon, and would like to see some changes made. (As it is now, a mage can easily destroy the ACs that have been summoned.)

[revi]

Agreed with the suggestions, but

wouldn't it make more sense to have summons' MI depend on summoners magic level, not on his summon level?

 

(rationale: mages need summon level to attack summons, summoner must have high level already to get strong creatures for physical attack, so to defend against a magic attack, he should have a decent magic level as well)

 

No, the idea is that if you want to do a shitload of damage to the enemy summoners you must also be a summoner. If the magic level is used, there is no point.

 

Sorry, but I think you misunderstood me here:

I was suggesting that the summoner should have magic level to get a good magic resistance for his summons,

(but I guess I should have talked about magic resistance, not MI)

 

Of course, the mage should have good summon level (= understand summons?) to do a lot of damage

Edited August 31, 2009 by revi

[TigerClaw]

Agreed with the suggestions, but

wouldn't it make more sense to have summons' MI depend on summoners magic level, not on his summon level?

 

(rationale: mages need summon level to attack summons, summoner must have high level already to get strong creatures for physical attack, so to defend against a magic attack, he should have a decent magic level as well)

 

No, the idea is that if you want to do a shitload of damage to the enemy summoners you must also be a summoner. If the magic level is used, there is no point.

 

Sorry, but I think you misunderstood me here:

I was suggesting that the summoner should have magic level to get a good magic resistance for his summons,

(but I guess I should have talked about magic resistance, not MI)

 

Of course, the mage should have good summon level (= understand summons?) to do a lot of damage

 

well the problem with summoner having magic lvls to protect their summons is..

summons train their summon lvl.. so why would they need magic lvl to protect their summons?? imo there is already alot of time used in the gypsum caves.. why should summoners train magic as well to be able to have efficent summons?? [sarcasm] do fighters use potioning lvls to protect themself in combat or something?? [/sarcasm]

 

and the thing for RP (in response to ur "understand summons?" statement) is mostlikely:

IF Summoners has the power to GIVE life to bones & raw meat... then they should be able to TAKE life from other people's summons.

 

and whoot, keep voting guys!! (really want radu to implant both ideas.. but we'll see )

[TigerClaw]

also BirdCamp has brought to my attention...

 

Bears: Mana Burn

Tigers: Cooldown

Hawks: Mirror

Spider: Paralyze

Tank Rabbits: Evanescense

Red Dragons: Smite Summons (Special Effect.. Thanks Asgnny )

 

so why shouldnt ACs have TS??

 

EDIT: forgot Tank Wabbits

Edited August 31, 2009 by TigerClaw

[Raytray]

Because ACs have

ZOMG I SO STRONG

 

Or something to that effect.

[TigerClaw]

Because ACs have

ZOMG I SO STRONG

 

Or something to that effect.

 

and Dragons has Smite Summons, u going to complain about that too??

yes their strong but so what?? their USELESS to invis mages.. instead of doing something to defend themself such as attacking then invis enemy..the "ZOMG I SO STRONG" ACs stands there like bundles of hay.. just waiting for the mage to SMITE the crap out of them (50s-80s per smite.. per 2 secs) the "ZOMG I SO STRONG" ACs dies to the "ZOMG I SO OP" Mages in less then 10sec... but then again my ranting is included in the suggestion topic.. so u should go re-read it as neccasary.

[Raytray]

I have read it. But by what you're saying all the others should have TS as well?

[TigerClaw]

I have read it. But by what you're saying all the others should have TS as well?

 

i would like to have some more creatures (wolves, hawks..) with TS since ACs are quite expensive.. but its pretty much up to radu

[umbrena]

Alright,

2

1

2 , were what I voted. I do not think that acw's should have true sight. For selfish summoner reasons I'd love for them to have true sight; but who would pwn us? There'd be no tactic/challenge in PK for summoners, but then again MI shield were giving to the mages on a silver platter, right?

 

If it takes one person 3-5 smite summons to kill an acw invisible, they lose 90-150 mana, so it should be a summoner tactic to have other things ready...since tigers/bears burn through MI for us often enough. ACW are super expensive for PK tactics, but can also own anyone in under 5 seconds, as I've seen myself. Every advanatage should have it's disadvantage, and this is a fine enough negative for me.

[DHT]

"make arrows that remove invisibility" - doesn't a simple attack remove invisibility? thus, if you have true sight, see the invis mage, attack him/her with any kind of damage, be it magic/melee/ranged, the invisibility is lost?

[Light Lan]

"make arrows that remove invisibility" - doesn't a simple attack remove invisibility? thus, if you have true sight, see the invis mage, attack him/her with any kind of damage, be it magic/melee/ranged, the invisibility is lost?

 

no, the invis persons stays invis if attacked by someone with true sight.

[TigerClaw]

"make arrows that remove invisibility" - doesn't a simple attack remove invisibility? thus, if you have true sight, see the invis mage, attack him/her with any kind of damage, be it magic/melee/ranged, the invisibility is lost?

 

actually... no it doesnt... u stay invisible until u ATTACK someone...

if someone attacks u it doesnt make u lose invis..

[Fedora]

Wonderful improvements.

I'm not for acws with ts, strong enough already. A lesser creature, like wolf or fox (or a summonable leopard? a use for the tons of furs dusting in storages) would be better, would add variety and strategy.

Heal/Smite power definitely based on summon lvl.

[conavar]

Should ALL Arctic Chimeran Wolves have True Sight?

 

No. not the way the current summons work ( the amount summoned in one go ) giving them TS aswell would make them OPed imo.

IF they were giving TS then they should be nerfed in some other way, ie: half the amount summoned, lower att strength or less HP etc

 

 

Personally I would give TS to falcons/hawks, then these to be used tactically as "scout" summons, instead of AC's which would be scout,tank and damage dealer

Not sure if its possible but I would go as far as having the TSed falcon/hawk having a chance to remove the enemys Invis status on a succesful hit

 

 

 

As for the heal/smite summons being based on a players summoner level, rather than their magic level, seems pretty logical to me and cant see a reason why not

[Quesar]

I voted no to TS for ACW.

 

ACW are plenty strong enough, especially since you get 8 of them. I agree with others regarding having a lower level summon with true sight instead.

 

I voted yes to smite/heal summon strength being tied to summon level. In addition, I think heal summoned should work on all allied summons, not just your own.

[Entropy]

BTW, not sure you realize, but there is an uninvizibilizer ward. If you spend so much for the ACs, then you should get the ward.