Jump to content
Eternal Lands Official Forums
korrode

Dragon Great Swords

Recommended Posts

I suggest making enhanced versions of the great swords, the only change to their stats should be 6 more damage (to min and max).

 

To manufacture they could just require 1 of the original great sword and 1 red dragon scale.

 

Human 7 to use.

 

Low break rate, same as the original great swords.

 

I don't know what manu or crafting level is appropriate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really didn't want to, but then you had to go and ask so nicely.

 

In general, i'm against the so called "l33t" weapons and armor, yes id like black dragon armor, but only for show.

This hasn't contributed to the game in a positive way in my opinion. Except characters look prettier now.

 

I thought you had a desperate hope of reviving PK Korrode, making the entry even harder seems like a bad idea.

 

If this evil plan of yours is to remove dragon scales, make it mixable with some FE's and voila, you have some pretty fireworks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I suggest making enhanced versions of the great swords, the only change to their stats should be 6 more damage (to min and max).

 

To manufacture they could just require 1 of the original great sword and 1 red dragon scale.

 

Human 7 to use.

 

Low break rate, same as the original great swords.

 

I don't know what manu or crafting level is appropriate.

 

Could you please elaborate on the reasoning behind the suggestion , why you think they are needed etc etc .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
In general, i'm against the so called "l33t" weapons and armor, yes id like black dragon armor, but only for show.

This hasn't contributed to the game in a positive way in my opinion.

I completely agree! ...and i've suggested to Radu he remove it on numerous occasions.

 

...but, very sadly, it doesn't look like he's going to.

 

So working under the premise that the dragon armor will not be getting removed and will not be getting much in the way of stats changes, we have to consider what can be added to the situation so that the dragon armor can be a positive.

 

Very few weapons have been added in collusion with the dragon armor, certainly not an array for balanced weapons with a lovely accuracy VS damage scale, like the great sword range.

 

If you look closely at what i'm saying here, i'm trying to restore the act of PK combat to a more similar situation to how it was before the so called "l33t" dragon armor.

 

If this evil plan of yours is to remove dragon scales, make it mixable with some FE's and voila, you have some pretty fireworks.

I really couldn't care less what gets mixed with them to create it, so long as it's fairly renewable and not too expensive :P

 

Consider that these weapons i'm suggesting would be like 120% the cost of the normal one, where as Dragon armor sets are like 400%-500% dearer than Titanium sets.

 

EDIT:

Could you please elaborate on the reasoning behind the suggestion , why you think they are needed etc etc .

The only info I can add to the above is that another event that occurred and saw little to no existing equipment tweaking was attribute caps. For some further explaination on that, i'll just quote Ambro:

On a different note:

It's not just the dragon armours that cause the problem.

It's also the low might (= low damage) players have now because of the attribute caps. People take and have more PP's available for vitality because op the caps aswell. There are chars out there with tank like thougness.

All in all...the weapons (or armours) in EL could use some tweaking to adjust them to the new after-cap situation.

Edited by Korrode

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

sounds like a nice idea, i am trying to imagine wat the swords would look like.

 

I'd probably never buy for though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
sounds like a nice idea, i am trying to imagine wat the swords would look like.

For ease of implementation, i'd suggest just using the images and models of the normal great swords (as was done with the Enhanced Iron Plate)... at least for now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
EDIT:
Could you please elaborate on the reasoning behind the suggestion , why you think they are needed etc etc .

The only info I can add to the above is that another event that occurred and saw little to no existing equipment tweaking was attribute caps. For some further explaination on that, i'll just quote Ambro:

On a different note:

It's not just the dragon armours that cause the problem.

It's also the low might (= low damage) players have now because of the attribute caps. People take and have more PP's available for vitality because op the caps aswell. There are chars out there with tank like thougness.

All in all...the weapons (or armours) in EL could use some tweaking to adjust them to the new after-cap situation.

 

This might not be the sole reason you think they need changing, but since you quoted it, I will give my opinion of ambro's statement.

 

If people choose to have a tank build for less dmg then good luck to them, changing items just to nerf them is a bad idea, unless you change items to combat all char builds.ie: also change the weapon/armour stats to combat those players with high Ins/Reas builds.

 

Edit: Rather than one or two items being added/changed, the whole system needs a re-balance imo, to take into consideration all changes that have happened

 

Granted due to pp buying there are a few char's with high stats in all attributes, but thats another topic :P

 

(offtopic note: bound to cause "omgodz nuu": IMO pickpoints should not only have been capped at a set amount. 48 per attribute in this case, but also capped at how many points are allowed to be spent on those 6 attributes in total. Then items could have been given individual stats (pros and cons) Ie: Dragon armour gives +2 vit and Ins but -4 reas or coord since its slow to move in.. etc) quick example since to long to go into details ;)

Edited by conavar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This might not be the sole reason you think they need changing, but since you quoted it, I will give my opinion of ambro's statement.

 

If people choose to have a tank build for less dmg then good luck to them, changing items just to nerf them is a bad idea, unless you change items to combat all char builds.ie: also change the weapon/armour stats to combat those players with high Ins/Reas builds.

Heh, i put basically the same thing to Ambro when he said what he said, and his response to me, which was quite correct, was this:

Not neccesarily:

The problem is that most Pkers already have a more or less tank build compared with before the caps.

Before the caps taking vitality wasn't very populair. It's a lot more interesting to take it after the caps.

In comparison: before caps taking ~10 damage of a hit wasnt very helpfull because ppl could hit a lot harder, now after caps with the capped might its a lot more interesting to try and reduce the already much lower damage: you can reduce a much higher % of the hit now.

Anybody with 20 vit (situation after caps) is already a lot more "tank" like then somebody with 20 will (situation before caps).

The "tankers" that take even more vit in an attempt to try and reduce even more (or all) damage will have to sacrifice some PP's for instinct or reasoning...thats true, but they get a much better trade off now in comparison to the situation before the caps.

 

All in all i see 3 causes for the low PK dmg:

-low might

-higher thougness (as a result from caps)

-dragon armours

 

 

Solution would be : tweak the damage of the swords, or indeed, tweak the armour rating of the drag armours.

@Ambro if u ever read all this: soz to just keep quoting u, but it's faster than typing :P

 

(EDIT: Just to make it clear, before someone decides i'm saying something i'm not and posts: I'm not saying the attribute cap is a bad thing, it's a great thing, just that it got implemented and very few tweaks were made to game for proper accommodation.)

 

Edit: Rather than one or two items being added/changed, the whole system needs a re-balance imo, to take into consideration all changes that have happened

Yes but Cona we well know that we're never going to get a re-balancing of the whole system.

 

Granted due to pp buying there are a few char's with high stats in all attributes, but thats another topic ;)

And again, never going to get removed... hell some time ago i quoted Radu's own words where even he said being able to buy pickpoints would be a bad idea, but that wasn't enough.

 

I stopped suggesting my actual true suggestions some time ago, what i suggest now is small changes that nudge the current system a bit more towards balance, as i don't see that we can ever expect any changes greater than that. Which is better than nothing, no?

 

(offtopic note: bound to cause "omgodz nuu": IMO pickpoints should not only have been capped at a set amount. 48 per attribute in this case, but also capped at how many points are allowed to be spent on those 6 attributes in total. Then items could have been given individual stats (pros and cons) Ie: Dragon armour gives +2 vit and Ins but -4 reas or coord since its slow to move in.. etc) quick example since to long to go into details :P

I agree.

 

 

 

(EDIT: A further note; the damage increase i'm suggesting actually only accounts for the increased armor bonus from dragon armors, it doesn't even really address the effect of attribute cap that Ambro speaks of. Making overly drastic changes to weapon stats all at once wouldn't be a good idea.)

Edited by Korrode

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To make a comparsion to other games and old rpgs (paper). (Talking about attributes first, not the weapon damage)

 

[on attributes]

 

a little background digression:

A character that would gain might, beyond the systems standard might, would be a Barbarian\Berserker.

To give a warrior, knight style character additional damage without a penalty to Reaction, would unbalance things again,

possibly requiring another tweak.

 

(BY knight,warrior; I mean the ability to wear plate\advanced armor and shields, with the ability to have high

reaction. A barbarian, typically cannot wear plate type armors, it can deal massive damage and has large hitpoints,

but it is incapable of shield blocking and really any evasion.)

 

So, perhaps:

 

Barbarian Perk (Cloak that gives the perk must look like the Fur Cloak)

Something like:Gives +20 might,+Matter, -20 Reaction. Cannot wear nexus? chain and leather armors, only.

 

IMHO, what need to happen it to finally embrace that some level of classes is needed, at least in the

fighting arena, we have been slowly leaning toward that via perks for some time now. With the introduction of

rationality based harm,restore, rheal, and ranging, i think its unavoidable.

 

I think balance is impossible when you try to make fighting one giant super class, in an

effort to avoid classes.

 

The body of a marathon runner is much different than a sprinter, even though they both run, this is natural.

 

--------

[on weapons tweaks]

 

Do you increase weapon damage or lessen the armor rating?

 

The problem with introducing a stronger weapon in order to nerf toughness and armors, is now

you need stronger armors to defend against this uber weapon :/ If this weapon is made, there will

be later complaints that its -too powerful- and the best armor in the game can do nothing to stop it.

We have already fielded complaints about Bronze Swords, so I doubt a massive hitting weapon will

balance anything.

 

Then if you lessen dragon armors, you may need to tweak all armors downward, or the expense of the dragon armor,

is not justified any longer. Its a trap.

 

So my conclusion is to re-assert, that we will never balance a super class. We need to expect certain builds\classes will

flatly destroy one class, and completely lose to another. If you create a battle-mage super class, it has a tendency to make

fights endless, and the only way to win or lose, is dependant on mana\potion management, bah boring.

 

(rangers, ninja perks, mages, remote heal scalable, perception\stealth, and so on)

----

 

Probably too late for that, but it has slowly been heading in that direction since the caps, why not embrace it?

 

(this ends my sekrit agendaz kktybai :P)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Although i think your ideas are well founded bob, i still don't think further class-ifying is needed for the game, it's just my personal taste but i really like the idea that ones attribute build is the main thing dictating class.

 

Also just want to reiterate that with my suggestion it's more a case of what kind of changes are viable and likely to be worked on in the near future by the developer(s).

 

In regards to the weapons being 'too uber', and worries about people complaining armor wont be strong enough... i'm only suggesting 6 extra damage, I don't think such complaints will arise (imo ofc). Consider that the OP Bronze Sword's minimum damage is 15 more than an Orc Slayer's and maximum damage is 30 more, plus it has better accuracy and crit bonuses... what i'm suggesting is no where near as drastic, and considering we've witnessed first hand the kind of damage that will be seen (i.e. people in full Ti plate up against the normal great swords), i can say with great confidence that "OP" is not how most people would view the weapons.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

viable idea imo, handles could be covered in dragonscale so u see a small diffirence from normal great swords.

 

if u want to pierce a dragon armor you'd need a dragonscale enchanted sword :pickaxe:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hai :P

 

Your idea seems pretty reasonable because of the high armor of dragons, but those swords should be un-effective (very low damage to tit sets i.e) against non-dragon armors or it would be definetely suicide for the ones who cannot afford dragon armors.

 

And to add this; Gotta love hitting 1-10 to ice dragon armor + rdholam with OS and potted.

 

Think about it...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good point kadlub, mabye +dmg on all opponents wearing atleast 1 part of dragon armor, and no diffirence against other opponents. Mabye there will be programming issues to implent this tho...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Good point kadlub, mabye +dmg on all opponents wearing atleast 1 part of dragon armor, and no diffirence against other opponents. Mabye there will be programming issues to implent this tho...

That shouldn't be a problem. It can be handled like fire/ice damage against metal armors. Dragon damage versus dragon armors, but don't add that name to the info :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

pr0 idea.

As i've said before: the great swords do too little damage to dragon armour making pk fights too long and tedious.

 

Might has been capped, more and more armour ingame with very high armour ratings, yet nothing has been done about the damage you can deal with a sword. Makes things a bit unbalanced.

As Kaddy said: hitting 10 max damage on somebody wearing IDA + helm with OS is annoying to say the least. It also makes anything with less damage then OS useless in PK.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
pr0 idea.

As i've said before: the great swords do too little damage to dragon armour making pk fights too long and tedious.

 

Might has been capped, more and more armour ingame with very high armour ratings, yet nothing has been done about the damage you can deal with a sword. Makes things a bit unbalanced.

As Kaddy said: hitting 10 max damage on somebody wearing IDA + helm with OS is annoying to say the least. It also makes anything with less damage then OS useless in PK.

 

Yeah i do PK a little bit more lately :D and almost noone without ida/bda sets around. Yet, there were always some new armors added but did we see any new weapons ingame lately? :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So this would be like a bronze sword with less breakage a bit less damage but more stats \o/ - i don't play but i think 1 scale + sword to manu is too cheap. & high damage weapons bad with restore depending on rat/mag lvl

 

Okay ur damage is too low on dragon armors btu we've been doing good for a while already why change it ^^ - bp cape ftw.

Edited by Michic0_oL

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So this would be like a bronze sword with less breakage a bit less damage but more stats \o/

No, not at all.

 

No great sword simply with an added 6 damage would be anywhere near as powerful as a bronze sword.

Edited by Korrode

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So this would be like a bronze sword with less breakage a bit less damage but more stats \o/

No, not at all.

 

No great sword simply with an added 6 damage would be anywhere near as powerful as a bronze sword.

hmm 20 to 30 less damage i think but would be more powerful than a thermal serp :icon13:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So this would be like a bronze sword with less breakage a bit less damage but more stats \o/

No, not at all.

 

No great sword simply with an added 6 damage would be anywhere near as powerful as a bronze sword.

hmm 20 to 30 less damage i think but would be more powerful than a thermal serp :icon13:

 

 

Thermal serp is useless against dragon armors. You can do more damage with a great sword imo. Thermal works real nice against iron/tit/steel though :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So this would be like a bronze sword with less breakage a bit less damage but more stats \o/

No, not at all.

 

No great sword simply with an added 6 damage would be anywhere near as powerful as a bronze sword.

hmm 20 to 30 less damage i think but would be more powerful than a thermal serp :icon13:

 

 

Thermal serp is useless against dragon armors. You can do more damage with a great sword imo. Thermal works real nice against iron/tit/steel though :D

i know thanks >.< - but u now have heat/cold spells - whats the use of thermal anyway nowadays uh ? waste 90 usd to be a pimp ? :icon13: - u better use osmn / cotm / jsocd vs tit or steel anyways lol less damage but would prooly kill faster (and what kind of noob uses iron for pk :icon13: )

perhaps increase (again ?) thermal stats would be a better option :<

Edited by Michic0_oL

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So this would be like a bronze sword with less breakage a bit less damage but more stats \o/

No, not at all.

 

No great sword simply with an added 6 damage would be anywhere near as powerful as a bronze sword.

hmm 20 to 30 less damage i think

Yes, that'd be about right for the OS, but lets not forget also that the OS lacks that accuracy, crit-hit and crit-dmg bonuses of the bronze sword too.

 

So we're agreed then that your "would be like a bronze sword(...)" statement was completely and utterly wrong, k great. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No we don't need more swords. Cel-el lists over 100. Korrode, why dont you suggest shields made of dragon scales ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×