Depletable resources and multiplaying

[Entropy]

How so ? (not including the problems of familys playing from the same IP) why does a player need an alt(s) he can interact with ? The whole point of an mmo is to interact with others not only yourself

 

Having a rule doesn't mean everyone respects it, or that we can catch all those cheating. Sure, we catch and ban quite a few, but I suspect many still do it one way or another.

[Griever]

A small question.... Why you asume everyone uses alts and everyone wants to use them if they dont now ? I never used alt harvesters, i never had alt harvester, i only get what i need for myself, to keep playing. Now, what if i need 1k HE for some a/d training ? i go to mm, and there are 2alts per 1 person, and in total like 30 of them getting all the resources that spawn, how am i supposed to get just couple ores if im like 2 min too late on silver spot ? and every1 of those players got 1-2 alts on other silver spots in EL. I will have to buy it from those LEGAL alt harvesters, and they are farming gold as they did till now, just 2-3x faster.

 

This idea will try to force me to use alts and camp couple resources spots, tho i still wont This game needs more players...New players, not more alts, 2-4 per 1 person

 

I just dont understand... why make so huge changes for all if you have problem with just small part of EL community using alts ;s treat them a bit more tough ^^

 

PS. It isnt about multiplaying part, just depletable resources, but those 2 are too much connected ;s

Edited May 5, 2009 by Griever

[Aislinn]

Two questions for you all re multiplaying:

I have seen quite a few people both ingame and in forums comment that they felt they won't be able to keep up or compete on their single player if multiplaying is allowed and others use their alts.

Question 1:

Who/what are you competing or keeping up with?

 

 

To piggyback onto that question now, consider the following happens on a regular basis:

1. Players purchase bots with rl $ to buy and sell for them, thereby not having to do that time consuming chore on their main character themselves.

2. Players purchase entire storages from private players with rl $, thereby not having to earn that stuff with their main character themselves.

3. Players purchase characters for rl $ from private players to skip 10's and 20's and even 100 levels, not having earned it with their old main or new main character.

4. Players purchase items both expensive and not so expensive from the shop, sometimes in bulk, for rl $ that the main character did not put any effort into earning.

5. Players buy guild maps and guard bots with rl $ so they can have private uninterrupted pvp.

6. A lot of players that you think you are competing with do try to find ways to trade with their alts, look at bans forum. How many times are you surprised at who it is? (Also note that a fair number like to resolve the issue through private pm's so players don't know it happened). And as ent said, we don't even catch all of them.

 

None of this is illegal. Nobody has been locked for any of this (granted people have done some of this and then turned around and done majorly stupid illegal things in addition to these and then got locked).

 

Question 2:

So, knowing all that, why should it be illegal to trade with an alt character you make and work on yourself? Why should throwing around a fistfull of real life cash entitle you to all those benefits for your main (that your main did not earn) LEGALLY, while people making alts and leveling and working them themselves and wanting to benefit from that stuff earns them a ban? At least with the alt you did the work yourself.

 

In my perfect world, the game would have no outside rl $ influence. However in this world, ent and roja have to earn a living to eat, live, etc. So considering the rl $ is here to stay in EL, I think allowing multiplaying will level the playing field for everyone.

 

Keep in mind there are other moderating issues floating around this issue too, but those for obvious reasons will not be mentioned here. However in no way is it about "less work for the mods".

[korrode]

Aislinn's post really blows away all these supposed horrific, game ruining downfalls to multiplay...

 

Although i'm a general supporter of getting multiplay made legal, i've had some concern related to an increased ability to buy pickpoints... but as Aislinn perfectly put; really, i'm much more comfortable with people who actually did work in EL buying pickpoints at a fast rate than i am with people who just throw around $$.

 

Still a concern remains that allowing multiplay would result in more nexus removal stones entering the game... perhaps their find rate could be dropped a bit? (waits for harvester types to chime in with the 'omfg i get punished w/ reduced stone rate cause of ppls alts'... the fact is, harvesting yields big resources/profit at a tiny cost, so ya.)

[IngalfTass]

Aislinn's post really blows away all these supposed horrific, game ruining downfalls to multiplay...

 

Although i'm a general supporter of getting multiplay made legal, i've had some concern related to an increased ability to buy pickpoints... but as Aislinn perfectly put; really, i'm much more comfortable with people who actually did work in EL buying pickpoints at a fast rate than i am with people who just throw around $$.

 

Still a concern remains that allowing multiplay would result in more nexus removal stones entering the game... perhaps their find rate could be dropped a bit? (waits for harvester types to chime in with the 'omfg i get punished w/ reduced stone rate cause of ppls alts'... the fact is, harvesting yields big resources/profit at a tiny cost, so ya.)

 

 

I am knocking on harv level 60.

 

To date I have found 1 nexus removal stone, 1 Rosto, and 1 Enrichment stone.

 

I don't know that turning the rate down is needed.

[Entropy]

Aislinn's post really blows away all these supposed horrific, game ruining downfalls to multiplay...

 

Although i'm a general supporter of getting multiplay made legal, i've had some concern related to an increased ability to buy pickpoints... but as Aislinn perfectly put; really, i'm much more comfortable with people who actually did work in EL buying pickpoints at a fast rate than i am with people who just throw around $$.

 

Still a concern remains that allowing multiplay would result in more nexus removal stones entering the game... perhaps their find rate could be dropped a bit? (waits for harvester types to chime in with the 'omfg i get punished w/ reduced stone rate cause of ppls alts'... the fact is, harvesting yields big resources/profit at a tiny cost, so ya.)

 

It is not easy to get those things with alts, you need a more balanced character to get them.

[conavar]

In my perfect world, the game would have no outside rl $ influence. However in this world, ent and roja have to earn a living to eat, live, etc. So considering the rl $ is here to stay in EL, I think allowing multiplaying will level the playing field for everyone.

 

 

If you allow multi play though, you might just get your way. For example if i can have 3+ alts making Gc for my main then why would I need to buy items from the shop ? if the shop loses money and hence Radu and Roja do is that good ?

 

And seriously wether you like it or not EVERY player who has leveled a skill from scratch has earned it, wether they buy shop items, buy gc for $ or dont spend any $ at all

[Entropy]

If you allow multi play though, you might just get your way. For example if i can have 3+ alts making Gc for my main then why would I need to buy items from the shop ? if the shop loses money and hence Radu and Roja do is that good ?

 

And seriously wether you like it or not EVERY player who has leveled a skill from scratch has earned it, wether they buy shop items, buy gc for $ or dont spend any $ at all

 

Managing 3 alts is anything but fun. Sure, you can do that, but some people would just feel like focusing on one char alone and buy stuff from the shop.

[Aislinn]

If you allow multi play though, you might just get your way. For example if i can have 3+ alts making Gc for my main then why would I need to buy items from the shop ? if the shop loses money and hence Radu and Roja do is that good ?

There are other things to sell than game influencing items. And I bet people still would buy from the shop to support EL.

This is why we are looking at plans such as the depletable harvestables, to balance multiplay and not let it be so easy for your 3 alts to be gc farmers in some manner or another.

 

And seriously wether you like it or not EVERY player who has leveled a skill from scratch has earned it, wether they buy shop items, buy gc for $ or dont spend any $ at all

Do you seriously believe every character here was leveled by the person currently on it? A lot of rl $$ NOW does not benefit ent and roja, but private players. We are talking about the main character itself, that is the argument against multiplay, it ruins it for that main character that did all it's work itself. Look at my list, bots are selling for mains, people are buying complete storage additions to their mains, etc etc etc. If you own a trade bot, you legally multiplay. If you bought another characters storage for rl $, you legally multiplay. If you purchase 100 rostos from the shop, you legally multiplay (your main character did NOT find those stones or buy them with gc it got when selling the flowers it harvested, the owner's wallet did).

[HeLLRaiZeR]

Aislinn,

 

Other games forbid the selling of characters, wonder why we shouldnt. Its really lame how some accounts are merely traded around, enough $$ and you can buy an uberhaxxor character.. How does that possibly give anything back to the game? Buying stuff is okay I guess because you do the levels yourself, but its really sad how some characters (TooMass / Mufossa / etcetc) wanders around every other week with a namechange.

 

Making everything harder sure affects the possibility to play several accounts at once, but it affects the "regular" players also. Enforce the rules harder, forbid people to play with two accounts at the same time, and make it illegal to trade characters.

 

EL is no doubt one of the most moderated games, shouldn't be that much work.

Edited May 5, 2009 by HeLLRaiZeR

[PaulB]

Two questions for you all re multiplaying:

I have seen quite a few people both ingame and in forums comment that they felt they won't be able to keep up or compete on their single player if multiplaying is allowed and others use their alts.

Question 1:

Who/what are you competing or keeping up with?

 

Rankings maybe?

 

Some people do actually play to be competitive you know

 

 

EDIT:

 

If you purchase 100 rostos from the shop, you legally multiplay (your main character did NOT find those stones or buy them with gc it got when selling the flowers it harvested, the owner's wallet did).

 

 

How in hellspawn would this even be considered multiplay?

Edited May 5, 2009 by Paul Brown

[Ermabwed]

Managing 3 alts is anything but fun.

With all due respect, how would you know that. The RDHEs and this proposal seem to indicate that you don't have a lot of experience playing this game.

[Aislinn]

Aislinn,

 

Other games forbid the selling of characters, wonder why we shouldnt. Its really lame how some accounts are merely traded around, enough $$ and you can buy an uberhaxxor character.. How does that possibly give anything back to the game? Buying stuff is okay I guess because you do the levels yourself, but its really sad how some characters (TooMass / Mufossa / etcetc) wanders around every other week with a namechange.

 

Making everything harder sure affects the possibility to play several accounts at once, but it affects the "regular" players also. Enforce the rules harder, forbid people to play with two accounts at the same time, and make it illegal to trade characters.

 

EL is no doubt one of the most moderated games, shouldn't be that much work.

Ent doesn't want to do any of that. If he changes his mind, yay \o/ I would be VERY happy. (Usually the "easy obvious" solutions have reasons why they aren't being done )

 

If you purchase 100 rostos from the shop, you legally multiplay (your main character did NOT find those stones or buy them with gc it got when selling the flowers it harvested, the owner's wallet did).

 

 

How in hellspawn would this even be considered multiplay?

Remember i did not say illegal.

If you have an alt and a main and your alt finds 3 rostos while mining, you cannot give them to your main because your main did not find it, and you would be using that alt to benefit your main. Yet you can happily pull out your wallet and buy the same 3 rostos your main did not find either, and suddenly it's ok.

 

You do the math. Same beginning and same end result, and yet one gets banned and one does not.

[Entropy]

Managing 3 alts is anything but fun.

With all due respect, how would you know that. The RDHEs and this proposal seem to indicate that you don't have a lot of experience playing this game.

 

Hmm, let's see:

1. A lot of people stopped bringing their alts online because of the minor harvest change of mini events. Some even quit altogether.

2. With the new system I proposed (depletable resources), you would need to actively manage all your chars, not just go to the mine and click click click. I am not saying that it is impossible to do, but it would be very difficult.

[conavar]

Do you seriously believe every character here was leveled by the person currently on it?

 

Nope I know that isnt the case, but you cant generalise and say players who have bought shop items havent earned theirs levels. Alot of players have started from scratch and helped the game from buying from the shop.

So for an Admin (wether in her admin role or not) to turn around and say by supporting the game player A hasnt earnt his 100+ Manu, 100 Alch or 140 a/d is a bit of a kick in the teeth for the average honest Joe player

 

But anyway its getting kinda off topic (and we are not going to agree on this point anyway )

[Aislinn]

Do you seriously believe every character here was leveled by the person currently on it?

 

Nope I know that isnt the case, but you cant generalise and say players who have bought shop items havent earned theirs levels. Alot of players have started from scratch and helped the game from buying from the shop.

So for an Admin (wether in her admin role or not) to turn around and say by supporting the game player A hasnt earnt his 100+ Manu, 100 Alch or 140 a/d is a bit of a kick in the teeth for the average honest Joe player

 

But anyway its getting kinda off topic (and we are not going to agree on this point anyway )

Yeah since I didn't even say that.

Where did I say the shop buyer didn't earn his levels?

[Zamirah]

If you have an alt and a main and your alt finds 3 rostos while mining, you cannot give them to your main because your main did not find it, and you would be using that alt to benefit your main. Yet you can happily pull out your wallet and buy the same 3 rostos your main did not find either, and suddenly it's ok.

 

You do the math. Same beginning and same end result, and yet one gets banned and one does not.

 

This is if they play from same IP.

If a player have a fighter char on his own IP, only spent pp on human nexus and have perks like anti.

And an alt on his gf's IP to make SRS, HE and trade.

 

Then go home and ask the gf to log on his alt and trade with the main char.

 

And she could do the same with her char-alt.

And save pp for nexus/be able to take perks on the fighter char.

 

I know it has been done.

[TreeLord]

Two questions for you all re multiplaying:

I have seen quite a few people both ingame and in forums comment that they felt they won't be able to keep up or compete on their single player if multiplaying is allowed and others use their alts.

Question 1:

Who/what are you competing or keeping up with?

 

I think that the question of multiplaying can't be taken out of the context of the question of depletable resources. If resources are depleted from a common pool and multiplaying is legal, you are competing for access to resources to be able to level your skill of choice. High level tailors, for example, would be using up lots of coal and red roses to level making dyes, making those resources scarce for beginning players trying to make a couple of fire essence or iron bars.

[korrode]

So for an Admin (wether in her admin role or not) to turn around and say by supporting the game player A hasnt earnt his 100+ Manu, 100 Alch or 140 a/d is a bit of a kick in the teeth for the average honest Joe player

I hate when people say this kind of thing

 

Game officials, when not acting in an official capacity (i.e. performing acts of administration or moderation), should be able to express their true opinion, no matter who or what it contradicts.

 

EDIT2: all just IMO, ofc.

 

EDIT: Not to say Aislinn was contradicting anyone or anything... it's just a general statement.

Edited May 5, 2009 by Korrode

[conavar]

Do you seriously believe every character here was leveled by the person currently on it?

 

Nope I know that isnt the case, but you cant generalise and say players who have bought shop items havent earned theirs levels. Alot of players have started from scratch and helped the game from buying from the shop.

So for an Admin (wether in her admin role or not) to turn around and say by supporting the game player A hasnt earnt his 100+ Manu, 100 Alch or 140 a/d is a bit of a kick in the teeth for the average honest Joe player

 

But anyway its getting kinda off topic (and we are not going to agree on this point anyway )

Yeah since I didn't even say that.

Where did I say the shop buyer didn't earn his levels?

 

Maybe I misinterpruted your original post, since alot of shop items are bought to be sold for GC , So a player doesnt have to worry about earning it ingame and hence being able to spend more time doing what they enjoy. It came across to me that you were saying the benifits that came with doing that ie: extra time on a spawn, extra time in a manu school were not earned.

 

Now if that wasnt the case and I got the wrong end of the stick then I apologize

Edited May 5, 2009 by conavar

[HeLLRaiZeR]

Ent doesn't want to do any of that. If he changes his mind, yay \o/ I would be VERY happy. (Usually the "easy obvious" solutions have reasons why they aren't being done

 

Err... Why wouldnt he wanna do that? Seems like that would be ALOT easier than changing the whole game system.. Plus it would only affect the wrongdoers.

[Pyewacket]

Two questions for you all re multiplaying:

I have seen quite a few people both ingame and in forums comment that they felt they won't be able to keep up or compete on their single player if multiplaying is allowed and others use their alts.

Question 1:

Who/what are you competing or keeping up with?

 

I think that the question of multiplaying can't be taken out of the context of the question of depletable resources. If resources are depleted from a common pool and multiplaying is legal, you are competing for access to resources to be able to level your skill of choice. High level tailors, for example, would be using up lots of coal and red roses to level making dyes, making those resources scarce for beginning players trying to make a couple of fire essence or iron bars.

Could they not do what people do now, and buy from market? with extra and "legal" alts all harvesting away merrily around EL, even with depletable resources, there'd be just as much chance to buy what you need, no?

 

I havent seen anything from Radu to suggest there's going to be such a drastic drop in available resources that it would cease all market trading, if we ever DID get this idea implemented, despite peoples fears that this would be the case. We aren't liable to see things get THAT bad, it just isnt logical for Radu to allow it to do so, from a game balance perspective.

[FeaRM]

Could they not do what people do now, and buy from market? with extra and "legal" alts all harvesting away merrily around EL, even with depletable resources, there'd be just as much chance to buy what you need, no?

 

I havent seen anything from Radu to suggest there's going to be such a drastic drop in available resources that it would cease all market trading, if we ever DID get this idea implemented, despite peoples fears that this would be the case. We aren't liable to see things get THAT bad, it just isnt logical for Radu to allow it to do so, from a game balance perspective.

 

Very nicely put. Now if there was a way to just take this post at make it stand out so that everyone could see it, myabe some people that voted no might reconsider

[Infamous]

Could they not do what people do now, and buy from market? with extra and "legal" alts all harvesting away merrily around EL, even with depletable resources, there'd be just as much chance to buy what you need, no?

 

I havent seen anything from Radu to suggest there's going to be such a drastic drop in available resources that it would cease all market trading, if we ever DID get this idea implemented, despite peoples fears that this would be the case. We aren't liable to see things get THAT bad, it just isnt logical for Radu to allow it to do so, from a game balance perspective.

 

Very nicely put. Now if there was a way to just take this post at make it stand out so that everyone could see it, myabe some people that voted no might reconsider

 

yeah, but most dont think and just vote "omfg it ruins this and that" just cause they dont think it through

[Entropy]

Yes, but they ruin it for themselves, not for me.

It's not like the changes I make in the game are for me, they are for the players. I don't play the game, so I don't benefit in any way from them.