Should selling gc for $ be banned

[Nova]

Hi all,

 

Considering how many people have posted or spoken in favor of banning the sale of gc for $, I am really curious what the ratio is. I have created this poll to get an idea of the community's opinion. Radu has already said he is not in favor of making this change, but I am still curious about people's opinion. As such, this poll IS NOT OFFICIAL. It is not binding in any way shape or form.

 

I know the rule would not eliminate the practice, as people would invariably find ways to get around it, but my hope is that the volume will be drastically reduced.

 

 

PS - This poll was supposed to be created by Quesar, not Nova - I didn't realize she was already logged in when I posted this, I thought I was under my own account.

Edited April 3, 2009 by Nova

[anima]

i dont think this is entirely necessary.

 

radu has already said he cant/wont stop the sale of gc and i personally dont think he should.

 

and i really cant see how you could make an 'exception' for some things and not others.

[Vanyel]

I don't think it is POSSIBLE to control it in any way. That's why I opposed the anti-farmers rule proposal, too.

I can't say I like gold-farmers earning their cash in a way that may damage the game's owner income. Alas, I can't think of any reasonable way of stopping it.

[Ateh]

I can't say I like gold-farmers earning their cash in a way that may damage the game's owner income. Alas, I can't think of any reasonable way of stopping it.

 

Ban Labrat and Learner j/k

[nathanstenzel]

I voted no without exceptions. I do have faith in Radu's ability to track massive changes in gc amounts from unbalanced trades.

 

While such a thing may put folk like labrat or learner out of some of their business, this is gc <--> $ we are talking about. Making a little bit per character is not much and I think it damages the game some. They could make more money by putting ads on their sites.

 

If Radu wants gc <--> $ conversions, I am sure he could officially assign someone to do this and they would be take care of it under his orders.

 

I also think that every character buyer/seller should be banned.

 

All of this is cheating in my opinion.

[kulysoft]

Guys, perhaps you should read this http://blog.reroller.com/2009/03/21/making...lly-acceptable/ Making polls about this is purely waste of time.

[DHT]

Absolutely no.

 

It would put those who have jobs and credit cards and paypals and whatevers to buy items/services from shop in a more advantageous position that those who WANT that same stuff and their only way of obtaining it is trading gcs for $.

 

There are other ways to reduce the number of players getting paid for playing EL, and they have been discussed

[WolfWitch]

I voted yes - but other.

 

I do not like the idea of an unlimited amount of gcs being sold from the el shop - at the moment the gc has seriously lost its value and flooding extra into game will not solve this. While it may address the issue of GC farmers it causes another big mess.

 

I beleive if gcs were sold from the el shop they should be gcs generated in game and not just alched out of thin air - NPC's make gcs from items we buy from them - if the gcs available from the EL shop were equal to this then yes - if you want them to just be available to flood the game with more gold - then no.

[DHT]

Buying gold coins from shop is already happening, but in the shape of items, i.e. you buy a thermal serp for 90$ or whatever, and you sell it for in-game gcs. means you bought gold from shop, doesn't it?

 

Addition to my first post: that "no" means "no, it should not be banned". next time you make a poll make sure the question in the topic and in the poll is the same, kk?

[Quesar]

Buying gold coins from shop is already happening, but in the shape of items, i.e. you buy a thermal serp for 90$ or whatever, and you sell it for in-game gcs. means you bought gold from shop, doesn't it?

It doesn't mean ~380kgc was added to the game. It means a thermal serp was added. You are not increasing the total number of gold coins by adding an item.

[MagpieLee]

If in theory, gc <--> $$$ is outlawed, people will adapt and start using other items as currency.

 

There already have been trades of items <--> $$$

 

So unfortunately this will not work...

[Scratch]

No, don't stop the gc sellers. I am thinking of doing this as a parttime job to pay for my internet service.

[Cycloonx]

People will always find a way around, no use to try to prevent it.

[Enly]

Voted No, gold coins should not be allowed to be sold for real $$

 

Banning it might not be the best option, but I'd support it anyway. It's also possible to use a less drastic measure, to simply reduce the huge volume of gc flooding the game (such as asgnny's idea in the far too quickly locked thread.... seriously, how many people even saw that before it was locked?) and still allow gold to be sold, just get rid of these alts.

 

Yes, people will still use money to get ahead, but all (or more) of the $$ spent will go to the game, rather than people using the game as a part time job (that's ridiculous that people use the game to profit, its a game, go get a job if you need money). Less gc would be flooding into the game due to havesting alts earning gc, thus helping the economy as the resources we need (rostos, bindings... the things that are shooting up since they are in short supply due to gc farming) enter the game, rather than excess gc.

 

Banning might not be the way to go. But stopping it, slowing it, making it more difficult in some way shape or form, WILL help, and is what should be considered.

 

Of course there are ways around things, there are ways around current rules I'm sure. Have the mods caught absolutely every macro-er and multiplayer in game? No, I've heard many stories of people that have never been caught or have avoided mod detection for a very long time. Does the fact they can't completely stop it mean they shouldn't make it illegal or try to stop it anyway? Of course not. Saying that you can't completely stop it is no excuse not to try or make it more difficult in some way.

 

Gold Farming is a problem, and needs to be addressed and solved.

 

-edit-

 

"gc to EL shop transfers (giving gc to someone to pay for p2p, etc)"

 

This is not really selling gc, this is fine, this is money going to the EL shop, this is what happens in many games that outlaw gold coin selling. It's not the transfer of gold coins to dollars thats the problem, its the fact there is excess gc flooding into the game from alts, and the $$ being spent are going to players, not to Radu and the game where they belong.

 

-edit2-

 

As for "we can't monitor stop it, it won't help"

 

The moment you make it illegal, the incredible ease vanishes, the UO forums can no longer have a market where gc is being blatantly traded, everyone would be caught and banned. Check the amounts of gold coins transferred between two characters, monitor the people that have bought gc in the past and have the potential to illegally continue.

 

And finally, even if its not made illegal, which yes, is a hard thing to do. Make selling gold coins harder, take an idea like one character per person at a time and apply it. A lot of people supported that idea and it could help.

Edited April 3, 2009 by Enly

[Kaddy]

I may wanna give someone 700kgcs on the game for free and that person may wanna give me 100$ for free irl. Who gives you the right to control someone's life? If someone uses EL as a part time job, its TOTALLY none of your business, IMHO.

 

There is no way to prevent it, you cant proof that someone sold the gc for $$ or just gave away right?

 

-Kaddy

[Enly]

I may wanna give someone 700kgcs on the game for free and that person may wanna give me 100$ for free irl. Who gives you the right to control someone's life? If someone uses EL as a part time job, its TOTALLY none of your business, IMHO.

 

There is no way to prevent it, you cant proof that someone sold the gc for $$ or just gave away right?

 

-Kaddy

This is true, and unfortunate.

 

That's why

Banning it might not be the best option

 

But doing nothing is useless. Gold farming IS a problem, doing something to make it harder should be considered, even if making it illegal isn't the solution.

Edited April 3, 2009 by Enly

[LabRat]

I have no alts and I sell gc.

 

Banning alts will not affect me but will still leave someone ingame willing to sell gc.

 

As to whether me selling gc doesn't benefit EL I leave you to consider the fact I donate terabytes of bandwidth to EL in one way or another from my server. The same server that I pay for with money earned from gc sales.

[Kaddy]

But doing nothing is useless. Gold farming IS a problem, doing something to make it harder should be considered, even if making it illegal isn't the solution.

 

I totally agree with this but,

 

I think you have told the fact that there are too many ingredients (mostly harvestable stuff) coming into the game as there are alot of alts in game, did you ever think that it helped flower's prices go down meanwhile the pots are still the same gcs? which makes harry potters happy?

 

(I know thats only for pots but still....)

 

-Kaddy

 

PS You can find it a little stupid but i still wanted to say, potting is still highly profitable (which is good, at least its not like crafting or manuing) and the alts that afk harvs are usually on hard-harvestable stuff, or was in tit mine in VW before its changed.

[Enly]

But doing nothing is useless. Gold farming IS a problem, doing something to make it harder should be considered, even if making it illegal isn't the solution.

 

I totally agree with this but,

Hmm, so maybe the poll we need (we need another for Xena... ) is whether people think gold farming is a problem that needs to be addressed with a realistic solution?

[Scratch]

I have no alts and I sell gc.

 

Banning alts will not affect me but will still leave someone ingame willing to sell gc.

 

As to whether me selling gc doesn't benefit EL I leave you to consider the fact I donate terabytes of bandwidth to EL in one way or another from my server. The same server that I pay for with money earned from gc sales.

 

Technically, Agneum is your alt.

 

& thanks for the bandwidth donation.

[PaulB]

Do like runescape and make trade limits that have to be within ~8Kgc +/- the traded items. That would cut out on rl sales of gc for $$

[korrode]

Gold Farming is a problem, and needs to be addressed and solved.

I thought the problem was that Radu's not earning enough from the shop ...well, that's the only problem that affects us all... i'm sure some people would say another major problem is inflation.

There's many ways these could be addressed (i.e. see mass amounts of ideas in other thread), attacking 'gold farming' is only one of many possible things that could be done to potentially help.

 

Monsters dont drop enough gc, so i voted Yes.

[Enly]

Gold Farming is a problem, and needs to be addressed and solved.

I thought the problem was that Radu's not earning enough from the shop ...well, that's the only problem that affects us all...

Radu not earning enough from the shop is a symptom of gold farming, as the $$ are going to gold farmers, rather than to Radu where the money belongs. In my opinion, gold farming is the problem, lack of profit for the ones who most certainly deserve it (radu and roja) is the symptom.

 

And gold farming certainly affects us all, it's what is causing the rising prices of valued resources as the gold coin is devalued, and rostos become more and more rare ingame. It's what is helping to screw up the game's economy.

 

The first thing to consider should be stopping gold farming, if that still doesn't create enough profit, then other money making schemes should be considered.

 

edit - Typos ... and other stuff to add.

Edited April 3, 2009 by Enly

[Learner]

Gold Farming is a problem, and needs to be addressed and solved.

I thought the problem was that Radu's not earning enough from the shop ...well, that's the only problem that affects us all...

Radu not earning enough from the shop is a symptom of gold farming, as the $$ are going to gold farmers, rather than to Radu where the money belongs. In my opinion, gold farming is the problem, lack of profit for the ones who most certainly deserve it (radu and roja) is the symptom.

 

The first thing to consider should be stopping gold farming, if that still doesn't create enough profit, then other money making schemes should be considered.

 

edit - Typos

Feel free to propose methods of doing that which is fair to the rest of the community.

[Enly]

Feel free to propose methods of doing that which is fair to the rest of the community.

 

I fully support the one character per person at a time idea (as someone who currently simultaneously plays two characters completely independent of each other). Which many community members supported. I just never had a chance to see the thread until it had been locked.

 

Make harvesting harder -- require positive food for harvesting. Create more limited resources, that are used up, then 'grow' again in another location.

 

Make harvesting alts that do nothing but make and sell gold coins illegal.

 

Make selling gold coins completely illegal (though lots of people don't like that...) after all, it is illegal in most MMORPGs.

 

Implement more $$ features (not membership... which is a road that is better not to start on) just things such as the MANY proposed shop items that have been suggested in all these threads. Vanity items, NMT tunic for mixing tools, unbreakable pickaxe, certain ingame items being shop only forever. (This doesn't necessarily stop gold farming, but it might discourage it a little bit if demand went down when people spent money on things ONLY available from the shop)

 

-edit-

 

And I'm sure there are plenty of people in this game with more ideas. I just hope that we can understand as a community that gold farming is hurting the game, and we need to work together as a community to come up with a solution to the problem, not the symptoms.

Edited April 4, 2009 by Enly