Make Dragons stronger

[hussam]

I'm not really knowledgeable about A/D (only 83/103 A/D here) but as I understand, people with 140 or 150 A/D can kill dragons even if not so easily. Dragons are really majestic very strong creatures and they should require a lot more to be killed. for example, 5 people multiing the dragon while a few others using archery. Killing a dragon should be something extremely hard to do even for a group of very strong fighters. Giving dragons more physical resistance to poison spells or mines/caltrops would also help.

This is only a suggestion. Therefore, how about making dragons stronger?

[Shujral]

I think being able to kill a dragon without *too much* difficulty is appropriate after only god knows how many hours of training (for 140 a/d).

[hussam]

ok, got it.

[Sir_Exeus]

hussam shuj is a a n00b so don't listen to his or my advice on such things as dragon slaying

 

(But I personally think ALOT of people would agree with you that dragons should be stronger )

[Khalai]

Never heard of anyone taking Ice dragon 1vs1 in melee combat with anything, you could call "ease". The problem is, no matter how strong you make certain creatures (of course to certain extent), people will still find a way how to kill it in the most easiest way.

[Krystal V]

Old TooMass was a creature/beast and it/he was rarely killed in the "easiest way"

[korrode]

Which just adds to the pile of issues pickpoint buying is a contributor to.

 

:>

[hussam]

Which just adds to the pile of issues pickpoint buying is a contributor to.

 

:>

I definitely share your opinion on pickpoint buying. But what do dragons have to do with it?

[korrode]

Well your suggestion is to make dragons harder because they're 'too easy' for some people.

 

Remember that for ~97%+ of people in EL, melee combat with dragons is extremely hard. I've been playing this game for nearly 3 years, have spent much of that time a/d training, and for me the red dragon is still one hard bastard. It still hits me pretty much every time, it hits damn hard and has a high crit-dmg rate. EDIT: (I am not complaining about that, i agree with Hussam that Dragons should be hard)

 

I don't want to see it made any harder, i think addressing why a small yet still decent amount of players find them 'easy' is a better route to take.

 

A large percent of the people who can kill dragon 'with ease' are pickpoint buyers.

A large percent of that group would find dragon much harder if they couldn't buy pickpoints.

 

Take Kharn's statement:

Old TooMass was a creature/beast and it/he was rarely killed in the "easiest way"

He says that Toomass was able to kill these creatures easily, and not using the 'easiest' method.

This is the epitome of it, as Toomass, afaik, is the biggest pp buyer in EL history.

(Although some others would come close, or perhaps have surpassed).

 

Aesop is another prime example (he's bought much pp's also). I hear he drops RD and BD with ease.

 

 

@Pickpoint buyers

Please dont take my statements as personal insults, i know that you buy pickpoints because you want to either be 'the best', or know that to compete you need to... my statements aren't against you as individuals or your actions, they're against the pp buying system itself.

 

 

EDIT:

Additionally note; removing pp buying wouldn't make melee combat with dragons 'really hard' for absolutely everyone.

The very top a/d/oa's pushing up into 150's will still do fine against them, but removing pp buying would significantly reduce the size of the group of people who find them 'easy'.

Edited March 21, 2009 by Korrode

[Affliction]

i personally think that dragons. being the strongest monsters in the game are majestic, and no 1 player (or even 2) should be able to kill them.

 

i think they should be made strong enough that basically no one on their own could kill them. no matter how hard you train. i mean.. they are magical beasts. the epitome of strength and power and magic all combined into 1 creature. no 1 player should be able to just go and kill one.

 

i don't care how long they trained.

 

#EDIT

 

It should always be a team effort to kill something like that.

Edited March 21, 2009 by jizzy

[korrode]

They could always be made into a true ganging creature;

 

give them huge att and dex, so absolutely no one can block their hits, but give them relatively low def and reaction... which makes sense, since a dragon is huge, and not going to easily dodge hits.

[Affliction]

yea. that makes sense.

 

and i think that if you HAD to get a team together to kill a dragon it would slow the flow of dragon scales into the game. and eventually make them more rare.

 

its a lot harder to go kill dragons and collect scales when you have to get 3 or 4 people to go with you and then share the drops than it is to just go by yourself. or with 2 people.

[humanalien]

maybe not raise the A/D but their P/C en hitpoints, that schould make some difference.

 

now there indeed just too easy (also ice dragons) is i saw once during an irilion invasion.

just 4 people to kill it => 4 rangers and 1 fighter behind a wall.

Edited March 21, 2009 by humanalien

[Kaddy]

maybe not raise the A/D but their P/C en hitpoints, that schould make some difference.

 

now there indeed just too easy (also ice dragons) is i saw once during an irilion invasion.

just 4 people to kill it => 4 rangers and 1 fighter behind a wall.

 

First note: I'll try to be less flamey as much as i can coz this newbie's doesnt even have any idea about dragons

 

First off, I really doubt the complainers here has gone to dragon hunt even once and i even doubt they ever seen all of dragons -.- You shouldnt talk about something you have no idea, just like the PK threads, people who doesnt PK commented on PK threads now its screwed up (thats another issue tho)

 

Secondly, those you called "strong figthers" have spent at least more than 2 years to have that amount of a/d (some of them are bought tho but i dont know any of them was a 20 a/d n00b when they bought 130's char, i mean at least they knew the game much), and they have to have some advantages by playing and training their ass off for 10x time you played,

 

Moreover, you have no single idea how hard is training after high levels and how boring it is, but those 140's didnt get bored and kept training and now you say "a freaking dragon shouldnt be slayed by someone who played 4 years" ? go screw yourself. And some of the n00bs told that "they should be killed by only groups" what the hell? I killed an Ice dragon myself when i was 100's with mirror cape, and it doesnt matter how strong you make them, they will be still slay-able by one player, go screw yourself again,

 

Consequently, please for the sake of GOD, do not comment or talk about something that you have no idea, thats just pointless and silly.

 

Just my freaking 2 liras,

-Kaddy

[korrode]

Well that was a lovely attempt at being less flamey, Kaddy

 

Secondly, those you called "strong figthers" have spent at least more than 2 years to have that amount of a/d (some of them are bought tho but i dont know any of them was a 20 a/d n00b when they bought 130's char, i mean at least they knew the game much), and they have to have some advantages by playing and training their ass off for 10x time you played

I agree with you that those people deserve certain types of advantages for the high level of a/d they've built, but i don't think easily killing a so mythologically renowned uber powerful beast such as a dragon is the answer.

 

I actually wrote much more than this in this post but i speared off into various directions that would have generated a lot of debate (much of if from people who don't know enough; and thus i don't want to deal with), and would have ended up very off-topic.

[conavar]

IMO Dragons lost the majesty/wow factor as soon as they had fixed spawns ingame and were spammed in invasions

 

To me anyway they should be only used as the ultimate "end Invasion boss", for them to be this I dont think they need their a/d/p/c toughness, mag res etc increasing, just increase their HP to Bulungiu level and above. This would promote team work for the lower levels who cant kill dragons 1 v 1, while still keeping them "potentially" killable 1 v 1 by those players who have put the time into training a/d that high (but with increased HP killing them would take even the top players alot of time and effort, which something like a Dragon should do)

 

 

So

 

1: Increase Dragons HP

2: Use them only as the odd 1 or 2 invasion bosses

3: Remove the ingame spawns ( or keep the spawns for a New improved Dragon, but do like the old Everquest used to : From the time of death respawn time is random and between 1 day and 1week )

[hussam]

First note: I'll try to be less flamey as much as i can coz this newbie's doesnt even have any idea about dragons

Yes, you were flamey and you made it clear that it was the objective of your post. Anyway, I have seen dragons many times. I've seen people bomb them in Hulda before more than once on more than one peace day occaison. I've been to the red dragon and black dragon lairs.

I've even seen people with lower A/D than mine bomb black dragons with caltrops. Does this sound right kadlub?

 

Another thing is that my suggestion is based on 99.99% of world's population's conception of dragons. If you think you can turn a discussion into flaming, than I'm not the one who should be called a newbie. Other people replied with constructive arguments. If you're unable to do that, don't reply please. Otherwise, just post your opinion without flames or personal attacks please.

Edited March 21, 2009 by hussam

[Shujral]

Never heard of anyone taking Ice dragon 1vs1 in melee combat with anything, you could call "ease". The problem is, no matter how strong you make certain creatures (of course to certain extent), people will still find a way how to kill it in the most easiest way.

 

For the most part, I was referring to reddies.

[ProHibited]

Attributes are capped to 48 so the advantage for pickpoint buyers is not infinitely large,, they also require a very high a/d... Nothing wrong with buying PP's right?

 

I think that dragons are very strong already, but I would love to see smarter dragons. Like leonard the maneating leopard!

[Affliction]

@ Kaddy

 

I dont give a Flip how long anyone has played a game. i agree with Korrode. they should have "some" advantages. but not dragons.

 

and yes i have been to all the dragons. and been apart of groups to kill them all.. we had at least 6 people in each of those groups.

 

it was fun and a big planned event for us to go do.

 

thats how it should be.

 

right now the dragons are just another mob to be harvested in this game and thats just not how they should be..

 

 

Im along the lines of Cona as they shouldnt have spawns in game.

 

only bring them out in big invasions as a special monster.

[Sir_Exeus]

I watched as the legendary ThunderCloud killed the ice one all by himself

[korrode]

Attributes are capped to 48 so the advantage for pickpoint buyers is not infinitely large,, they also require a very high a/d... Nothing wrong with buying PP's right?

Lets use some arbitrary numbers in an example;

 

Lets say to dodge Red drag hits you need ~140 def + 48 inst, or ~150def + 36 inst. (idk if this is quite right, perhaps some top 20 ppls can confirm, but it doesn't actually matter, it's just to illustrate a point.)

If a person's OA is in the 140's+, they can buy 12 pickpoints a shitload faster than they can gain 12 OA's training.

 

Of course a person can have 48 inst without pp buying, but they'd be sacrificing other attribs that would help much in the fight for that inst... pp buying makes a huge difference in how 'lower' a/d people can effectively take out dragons in melee.

 

"Nothing wrong with buying PP's right?"

Wrong, there is, and don't fool yourself or try and fool everyone else into thinking that the 48 cap makes pickpoint buying 'balanced', all attribs help a significant amount in combat. Maxing them all out requires 264 pickpoints, an amount that's no where near achievable (without pp buying) even with extremely high OA and all negs that dont have detrimental effect on combat... and dont forget that after maxing all attribs, next would come the positive combat perks, which would push the amount of pickpoints that can be used to ever increase combat strength easily to 300+.

 

Pickpoint buying allows for effectively never ending char strength increasing at a consistent rate, as opposed to an ever sliding rate, like the game should, and was originally designed to.

 

Right now, pickpoint buyers burn their gc on mostly steel bars / s2e / hydro.

If there was no pickpoint buying, once fighters reached the softcap their gc would all go to resources for invasions or PK... or for some, financing others skills.

Vast varieties of potions, masses of diss and tele rings, lots of armor, the additional essences burned would all be the key stuff those who aren't financing another skill would spend their gc on, giving a lot more gc to a wider variety of product suppliers.

 

PK and participation in invasions should increase too, as the gc for resources would be sitting there for those exact kind of things, rather than much of it being shovelled into hydro for more pickpoints.

 

Anyways i could go on a lot longer on this subject, delving into deep rooted game balance issues, the impact on PvP and PvE, what computer games should reward so that they attract the most players, etc.

But meh.

 

Anyways i ask that anyone who responds to this post read it all carefully, word for word, taking the words for what they mean, as per their dictionary definition.

[Ateh]

PP buying by itself is not such a bad thing as long as its used for its intended purpose ( or my presumed intended purpose ) which is to buy nexus.

 

I think theres obviously un fair advantages to be had from the system as it is now , providing the person seeking the advantage can find a way to pay for the not so insane amount of hydro bars needed ( 50 isnt really alot for 1 PP if you ask me , not when it can start to take 12 mill xp for an OA ) and the nexus stones

 

I really dont know if the people who have bought nexus in this way used RL $ , but if they did then tbh that kinda stinks because it creates a two tier class system in EL , the description of the game is that its free to play , not that its free to play but if you spend $$ you dominate

 

But anyway theres two points id like to raise

 

1. What would the developers be able to say to the people who have bought PP and nexus stones like this ? do they get thier PP flat out removed ? are they renumerated ? are they told to suck it up because the game changes ? Yeh theres obviously an issue with PP buying as it is

 

I think they would have to get them removed which brings up all sorts of hows and whys and '' im fucking leaving'' kind of posts , because you cant take the option out of the game and leave X amount of players with the bought PP to dominate from then on

 

2. Keeping the nexus NCP would be good, if they were only to be used for nexus and not be removable , would it be possible to make these purchased nexus a kind of * sub * nexus that are kept on record as immovable ?

[korrode]

PP buying by itself is not such a bad thing as long as its used for its intended purpose ( or my presumed intended purpose ) which is to buy nexus.

Ya nexus buying is ok.

 

I think they would have to get them removed which brings up all sorts of hows and whys and '' im fucking leaving'' kind of posts

Let them go.

<1% of players leaving will mean nothing in the scheme of things, i can probably replace them solo.

Those times i've been asked "how long to be a really top PK'er in that game your playing" and i've replied "4+ years or US$1k+" and they've just lol'd would in future be replaced with a response from me that would be a bit less deterring.

 

EDIT: and lets face it, i was lying with "4+ years", cause if they start a brand new char it'll be longer.

Edited March 22, 2009 by Korrode

[Pyewacket]

Well, whilst I can see and understand your arguements against PP buying, Korrode, I'd like to see it stay.

 

Yes I know I'll always be severely outmatched by those who can use $ flat out to buy the stuff they need faster than I can raise the ingame gc to do the same, but I am and have been stocking for a reset that will allow me to go the same route. I fully intend to reset and buy my nexus, and then pickpoints. Purely from ingame gc. It'll take me a long time, but I dont mind that, this was never a "fast results" game anyway, for me. I'll just plod along happily and not begrudge those who can invest actual RL currency to fast-track their way past me.

 

One day I will get where I wanna be, have the attributes I am aiming for, all the nexus I have NOW will be replaced by hydro-purchased nexus and I can then freely invest the excess GC's earned back into the community thru contests and market purchases. I KNOW I am not the only one doing this either, in exactly the same way, using their ingame skills to support their plans.

 

So, should this option be removed and my way of playing penalised because you believe the advantage that RL $ brings is unfair? Thing is, when you look at the whole system of unfairness, theres always some point where it'll be unfair to someone for ANY changes made to the game. You suggesting we "lose" <1% of players who disagree with your viewpoint could actually be defined under the term "unfair", as an example.

 

Not meaning to shoot you down here, and LIKE HELL am I trying to goad you into a 6 page arguement or a battle of wits to get the upperhand in view of the forums-reading community, I just believe we should allow those who can and do wish to use the system, to do so unhindered. Some of them WILL be $ IRL ebul rich people, and some will be like me, just plodding along doing it teh GC way. We may be outnumbered, but we have the right to do it, nonetheless.