popeye Report post Posted March 20, 2009 He must not have had time to do it in the past 4 years. Maybe he doesn't give a rat's bag drop about folks' whining/crying/bitching/bellyaching/yourchoicewordhere. I know I wouldn't. Folks cry alot in this game. WWKD? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asterix Report post Posted March 21, 2009 Popeye, you are correct about Radu's opinion of whiners, but the main reason he has not implemented it is he believes in a free economy. Price fixing via NPC would be against his core principles. For those that say producing at a loss is mainly due to the value of the exp, remember there is the leather helm option for that. Work out how much your exp is worth making leather helms in manu school, then compare that to losses making the higher items. Eg I get 120 exp per helm, ingredients cost 22 (leather and thread, food not counted) therefore manu exp is worth 5.45 gc per exp point for me. Players with more rationality than me will have cheaper exp of course. So run some numbers on items that sell at a loss (most of them ftw), and see how much you're asking manuers to pay for the exp. If you don't want to do that math, please stfu. You will note that I have not, that is because I am not making that claim. Make sure you factor in ingredient losses btw, allow about 10% more cost for that. The oversupply of items driving down the value of finished product is an issue, and is only possible by the EL shop. The "rare" ingredients can be bought in large numbers with rl money and this distorts the EL economy. There is no way you can get large numbers of rares guaranteed any other way, due to the randomness of their drops/finds. I think Radu should limit the number entering by the shop, as worrying about the oversupply of EFE for example is pointless if the major players in the manu market are not getting them from noobs that got lucky mixing FE. So lowering the EFE creation from FE mixing was the wrong response imo. (6EFE costs $10 sell for 8k each, please correct if this is wrong, Rostos sell 25 for $100 and sell for about 20k, therefor gc:$ ratio is 4.8k:1 for EFE and 5k:1 for rosto, so EL shop is still providing upwards pressure on EFE price as bulk shop buyers use rl money to apply perceived gc value). Meanwhile players that don't buy from EL shop will horde EFE because the odds of getting one by any other method are now too low. If I will need an EFE one day, but not right now, why would I sell it when I'm not guaranteed to find another one easily, and if I do buy another later the price is likely to be higher? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wizzy Report post Posted March 21, 2009 I think that npcs need to be kept out of it as much as possible. They're needed to allow people to level through items that wouldn't otherwise have a market, but they shouldn't be the basis for an economy. I like the fact that in EL I have to barter with people to advance. If I can buy ingreds for a fair price at an NPC and sell products to an NPC then the game just reduces to walking from NPC to NPC and there is no social aspect to the economy. The reason manufactured goods are so cheap is grinding. People make thousands of items when nobody needs more than a few dozen. xp is the driver for this. There isn't really any way of getting around this. From a supply/demand standpoint the game would work fine if three people were manufacture level 100, maybe another 10 were around level 50, and nobody else made anything at all. Repeat this for all the other skills. However, lots of people want to level potioning even though nobody really needs another potioner and so there is a lot more supply than demand for mid-to-high level items. Now, all these people levelling creates lots of demand for FEs and bars and that sort of thing, so if you just want to mix FEs you'll never want for cash (even if you do end up dispairing of life). As for me - I'm in it for fun. Sure, I factor in cost when levelling so as to not burn excessive gold. However, on most items I can at most break even. For skills that are major money sinks I just don't do them at all - or I do them in spurts from money made from other things. The fact is that the game doesn't really need another level-50+ manufacturer so the economy is going to fight me every step of the way if I try to get there. That is just how economies work, and it is the same reason why artists work for next to nothing in the real world. When you want to make things even knowing that nobody is interested in buying, you have to take a loss. The only difference in the real world is that you don't need to churn out 500,000 brass gears before you start putting together your first watch. Grinding as in Life essences, IP rings, Srs pots, rope..sure I agree No one grinds levels with col's, tit plate, speed hax pots Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gilhad123 Report post Posted March 22, 2009 I am not striking, I just sell things for good price. That is that i can afford to buy the ings to make such item again For long time i did not sell item to a player with loss. Yes, i did sell @ loss to Trik many leather helmets and even payd to some newbies to carry the helmets there, just to be able get my manu where i can improve it with something better. As for my manu is not the main skill of interest, i will not do it this way again, when i can make what i need to make. I do not care about prices too much, because i do not use market too much. I can make anything makeable i am using and it is my way too I can wait for the right time with items in my store, if i know i will need them later i do not see, why i should sell them now and buy (at higher price usually) later. When i did need 2 ELEs, i just mixed LEs until i got them. These LEs are now waiting in my store, until i will start summoning, where i for sure would need all of them and more. I made some EFEs on my way - some spend on making Vial Mold/Alembic, others are waiting until i broke something again or i will start making some nice armor/weapons for myself. So yes, i have some rare items in my store, which i will not sell, as i know, i will use them later (enriched essies, binding stones...). There are other, which i will never need, so i will sell them as soon, as i will have time for it at the best price that i could get at the time (removal stones - as i do know what i want so i do not take what i do not want). From that point of view the actual price at market does not mean too much for me I hope the NPC would not change the prices, as i do not see, why they should interven more, than they already do. And free market looks good for me, especially in environment, where nobody could starve to death. The worst what can happen here is that one have to work little longer to get ANY toy he wants Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pyewacket Report post Posted March 22, 2009 Gilhad has created what is, in my opinion, the best post on this entire thread. Although it isnt in the form of a suggestion, it should be read and treated as one. I know that would encourage hoarding of some items (such as the ones he intends to use later on when he needs) but since theyre items strictly reserved for his own use (including end products) then I dont see it as a problem that affects EL economy. Gilhad of LotN guild, I salute you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
