Dolamar Bagjumper

[the_grud]

This incident happened a few days ago ,I have been waiting for my guildie to send me his chatlog and screenshot but he is having trouble with his P.C. so here goes.

 

I was mixing in DP store ,chatting to my fellow guildie Lyedanroth.

I was using toadies and antidote potions.

Unfortunately I missed my low health and the next thing I was in the underworld!

I pmd lyedanroth to get my db( mol and col),he told me DOLAMAR had jumped on it

Please accept my apologises for extensive chatlog.

I[[21:48:18] You have died and gone to the Underworld!

[21:48:18] [PM from LyedanRoth: aw?your dieing from poison]

[21:48:58] [PM from LyedanRoth: did u lose anything a dude jumped ypur bag]

[21:49:37] [PM to LyedanRoth: whts his name?]

[21:50:04] [PM from LyedanRoth: goota look back in my screen shots]

[21:50:25] [PM to LyedanRoth: col and mol]

[21:50:48] [the_grud @ 2]: db in dp stor is mine

[21:50:53] [LyedanRoth @ guild]: the gruds been bag jumped,,brb gotta look at my screen shots

[21:51:26] [PM from LyedanRoth: damn let me get his name real fast]

[21:51:49] [the_grud @ guild]: was chatting lost col and mol!

[21:51:49] [LyedanRoth @ guild]: he jumped it before i could get on it

[21:52:19] [LyedanRoth @ guild]: goota look at screen shot...brb [

[21:54:09] Welcome to the Desert Pines storage

[21:54:20] the_grud: anybody got my db?

[21:54:49] the_grud: anybody got my db?

[21:55:04] LyedanRoth: he took off grud

[ [21:55:10] the_grud: anybody see who jumped it?

[21:56:14] [PM from LyedanRoth: damn ubuntu i cant figure out how to get to my screen shots,,gotta run up agrilles house,,,brb]

[21:56:19] [the_grud @ 2]: db stolen in dp stor anyone know who got it?

[ [21:58:21] [the_grud @ guild]: another lesson i have been taught by EL lol

[21:59:03] [the_grud @ guild]: i was mixing didnt notice[

[21:59:24] [the_grud @ guild]: lye was here hoping he got screenshot

[22:00:11] [the_grud @ guild]: welll as one door closes ...another one slams shut in your face lol

[22:01:49] [the_grud @ 2]: lost db in dp store anybody got it it was jumped[[ [22:07:43]

[PM from LyedanRoth: i got the pic,,let me get his name][

[22:11:14] [LyedanRoth @ guild]: thank the name is dolamar,,guild is -sa-

[22:11:22] the_grud: ty

[22:11:33] No player is in the game with the name of dolomar

[22:11:41] No player is in the game with the name of dolamar

[22:12:08] [LyedanRoth @ guild]: your very welcome,,but i dought he's on i thinnk he logged off

[22:12:33] [LyedanRoth @ guild]: yes his guild is -sa-

[22:12:35] [the_grud @ guild]: you got screenshot proof?

[22:12:37] [Aliliana @ guild]: are you certain of the name Lye?

[22:12:47] [LyedanRoth @ guild]: positive

[22:12:55] [the_grud @ guild]: guild?

[22:12:55] [LyedanRoth @ guild]: i have a screen shot

[22:13:03] [LyedanRoth @ guild]: -sa-

[22:13:32] [the_grud @ 2]: any -sa- guildies on?

[22

[22:14:09] [PM from Gossip: These are the members of -sa- that are on, to the best of my knowledge:]

[22:14:09] [PM from Gossip: snowghost ]

[22:14:22] [PM to SnowghosT: ??]

[22:14:22] [LyedanRoth @ guild]: i'll send u screen shot

[22:14:33] [Mercie @ 2]: It isn't always accurate, but it is still useful.

[22:14:34] [PM from SnowghosT: what, i didnt say anythig]

[22:14:49] [PM to SnowghosT: who is your guildmaster?]

[22:15:03] [PM from SnowghosT: im the guildmaster]

[22:15:18] [PM to SnowghosT: you have a guildie dolamar?]

[22:15:29] [PM from SnowghosT: why?][

[22:15:51] [PM to SnowghosT: he has my db from dp store][

[22:16:31] [PM from SnowghosT: ouch, ill boot him from guild, i cant do anything past that, srry very much about that, ]

[22:16:34] [the_grud @ guild]: guildmaster is snowghost[

[22:17:02] [PM to SnowghosT: i would like you to try to get it back for me plze]

[22:17:18] [PM from SnowghosT: ill try, but he logged off, ]

[22:17:24] [PM to SnowghosT: we have screenshot]

[22:18:09] [PM from SnowghosT: well, im not responcible for what my guildlys do, ok, ill boot him, thats what i can do, also ill ask him to give it back ok]

[22:18:10] [the_grud @ guild]: i,m speaking now he says he will boot him

[ [22:18:19] [PM from SnowghosT: im just the GM]

[22:18:32] [the_grud @ guild]: but i,ve asked him to retrieve bag if possible

[22:18:59] [PM to SnowghosT: but you can ask him to mreturn it before you boot him] [

[22:20:44] [PM to LyedanRoth: send screen shot to agrilles as well plze]

[22:21:47] [PM to SnowghosT: pplze contact myself rank 19 or my guildmaster agrilles after you have spoken to your guildie]

[22:22:25] [PM from SnowghosT: ok, ill do my best, good speaking with u]

[22:23:43] [PM to Gossip: tell dolamar plze return my deathbag to myself/agrilles/fyrefox/mciscass or lyedanroth]

[22:24:49] [the_grud @ guild]: i have spoken to guildmaster and left a gossip for dolamar

[22:27:26] [the_grud @ guild]: what dont kill ya makes you stronger ...

[22:36:57] [PM from LyedanRoth: i can see him in the shot plus me saying hay,,he was waiting for u to die,,,]

[22:37:29] [PM to LyedanRoth: is he sat on bag?]

[22:37:49] [PM from LyedanRoth: standing]

[22:38:03] [PM to LyedanRoth: PROOF!]

[22:40:44] [PM from LyedanRoth: he musta seen u dieing and just waited,,when i realized u were dieing i sent u pm,,but u were already gone,,he jumped fast thats how i know he was wa]

[22:41:00] [PM from LyedanRoth: waiting]

22:41:27] [PM to LyedanRoth: completely missed it i was mixing lol]

[22:43:16] [the_grud @ guild]: i gtg situ i left gossip to tell dolamar to return stuff to any situ guile

 

 

<edit>

removed excessive capitals

~Ayumu

Edited February 2, 2009 by Ayumu

[Vanyel]

Honestly, your chatlog is not even close to a proof.

[Khalai]

Honestly, your chatlog is not even close to a proof.

 

Every proof in EL is circumstantial. Especially at bagjumping. Even if you have screen standing him on the bag, it is not proof, unless he confesses over chat or message. Hence, I don't get it, why you always asks for a proof, where there cannot be such one, which would satisfy you.

[Vanyel]

Honestly, your chatlog is not even close to a proof.

 

Every proof in EL is circumstantial. Especially at bagjumping. Even if you have screen standing him on the bag, it is not proof, unless he confesses over chat or message. Hence, I don't get it, why you always asks for a proof, where there cannot be such one, which would satisfy you.

 

I wonder, why would I ask for a proof. Probably not to get a wrong impression about somebody based on some vagueness. Isn't it the only reasonable way?

 

A screenshot is much more reliable than a description of the screenshot. Right now it's more of a gossip than of a proof. I can come up with a "proof" as provided above without even logging into the game. It woud require some creativeness (not too much, though).

 

PS. Want me to describe my screenshot I took when Khalai bagjumped a poor n00blet in the middle of Tahraji Desert afther the spoken n00blet died to a unicorn? I can do it.

Edited February 2, 2009 by Ayumu

[the_grud]

Honestly, your chatlog is not even close to a proof.

 

Every proof in EL is circumstantial. Especially at bagjumping. Even if you have screen standing him on the bag, it is not proof, unless he confesses over chat or message. Hence, I don't get it, why you always asks for a proof, where there cannot be such one, which would satisfy you.

 

I wonder, why would I ask for a proof. Probably not to get a wrong impression about somebody based on some vagueness. Isn't it the only reasonable way?

 

A screenshot is much more reliable than a description of the screenshot. Right now it's more of a gossip than of a proof. I can come up with a "proof" as provided above without even logging into the game. It woud require some creativeness (not too much, though).

 

PS. Want me to describe my screenshot I took when Khalai bagjumped a poor n00blet in the middle of Tahraji Desert afther the spoken n00blet died to a unicorn? I can do it.

 

As I said I was in the underworld.

Rather difficult for me to get a screen shot of DOLAMAR from there ,unless there is some way that i dont know of.

My guildie whom I trust(why would he lie) saw him jump the bag!

DOLAMAR has since been booted from his guild and ignores all my pms to him

Really wether you believe me or not is of no concern to me.

I posted to warn ther EL community in general

Edited February 2, 2009 by the_grud

[Shujral]

This r n00b chatlog. You never actually made contact with Dolamar? We you are that as of a few days ago, about 160,000 people in the US were without power? I don't know where Dolamar is from, but do you ever consider alternatives before jumping to conclusions?

 

#edit: re-worded.

Edited February 2, 2009 by Shujral

[Kalix]

This aint proof of anything at all but it sure is odd

 

[Ozmondius]

Well, since we're not convicting anyone of a crime, but warning the community of possible outlaw behavior, I'm unconvinced that we need "proof." What was presented here is plenty for me to be wary of the person.

[the_grud]

This r n00b chatlog. You never actually made contact with Dolamar? We you are that as of a few days ago, about 160,000 people in the US were without power? I don't know where Dolamar is from, but do you ever consider alternatives before jumping to conclusions?

 

#edit: re-worded.

 

If you read what i said carefully I said i pmd dolamar several times and he ignored my pm,s

I didnt say the reply i got was *player not ingame*.

He ignored my pms!!

[Vanyel]

Well, since we're not convicting anyone of a crime, but warning the community of possible outlaw behavior, I'm unconvinced that we need "proof." What was presented here is plenty for me to be wary of the person.

 

If there is no proof required as claim everybody could start a thread here, spit out some ridiculous accusation and be happy about it. The proof is something essential in my opinion. People might and will treat others in a different way based only on threads in Disputes forums.

 

If you read what i said carefully I said i pmd dolamar several times and he ignored my pm,s

I didnt say the reply i got was *player not ingame*.

He ignored my pms!!

 

It might mean he is guilty. *Might*, depending on the tone of your PMs. If you PMed me starting with accusation I'd most probably ignore your as well.

Edited February 3, 2009 by Ayumu

[the_grud]

Well, since we're not convicting anyone of a crime, but warning the community of possible outlaw behavior, I'm unconvinced that we need "proof." What was presented here is plenty for me to be wary of the person.

 

If there is no proof required as claim everybody could start a thread here, spit out some ridiculous accusation and be happy about it. The proof is something essential in my opinion. People might and will treat others in a different way based only on threads in Disputes forums.

 

If you read what i said carefully I said i pmd dolamar several times and he ignored my pm,s

I didnt say the reply i got was *player not ingame*.

He ignored my pms!!

 

It might mean he is guilty. *Might*, depending on the tone of your PMs. If you PMed me starting with accusation I'd most probably ignore your as well.

 

Ok I could post a screenshot of anybody standing on a bag.

I could accuse them of bagjumping...they could deny it .

I could post the chatlog.

That would not be proof.

 

Therefore providing proof of bagjumping is impossible to prove unless the player admits to it!!

 

Its a matter of belief ..you believe me and my guildie or you dont its up to you.

If you came acroos someone with several stab wounds and bullet holes i presume you would think something suspicious *might* have happened.

 

I,m not going to reply to anymore posts...pointless

[Ozmondius]

Hail Ayumu (or whatever name he's chosen this week) the never ending defender of questionable EL behavior. Tell me, what quantum of "proof" is satisfactory? Further, is the level quantitative or qualitative? Is it objective or subjective? I'd like you to define, exactly, what it is that you're looking for.

[Vanyel]

Hail Ozmondis, the first one to defame everybody with no or vague proofs! Hail Ozmondis, the first one to use very difficult words in hope to intimidate others!

 

In answer to your question. I'm looking for some common sense. I know, it might be a bit too much, but...

 

A screenshot makes one's statement more less reliable. A chatlog is less interesting than screenshot (it's too easy to forge it). A chatlog containing a description of a screenshot - c'mon - calling anybody an evildoer based on something that vague is slightly too much. Oh, the other side of the story is something really appreciated (though, this requirement is rather difficult to meet - I don't hope an evildoer will admit being an evildoer).

Edited February 3, 2009 by Ayumu
blah blah blah

[Ozmondius]

Meh, a screenshot is unauthenticated hearsay, unreliable, can be photoshopped and altered in a variety of ways. If someone is going to blatantly lie to defame another player, surely screenshots are no better evidence than a chatlog. What we need from you is PROOF.

 

I suppose the below convinces you that link_ is a bj'r? The point is what was said above--all evidence is circumstantial, I just don't know exactly why you seem to come in on the side of the person in question each time based on your subjective idea of what "evidence" is necessary to warn the community of a potential problem.

 

And btw, www.dictionary.com when you have troubles with 2-3 syllable words.

 

Edited February 3, 2009 by Ozmondius

[Vanyel]

As I said, I just ply for some common sense. As expected - you're not likely to provide even a pinch of it. Hail to you!

 

PS. I'd consider above screenshot as something that could validate some accusation - sure. However it would've to be provided by somebody else than you. As you've proven above you're ready to forge screenshots like this one.

Edited February 3, 2009 by Ayumu

[LabRat]

uvp 0? anyone fancy summoning a dragon?

[Shujral]

This r n00b chatlog. You never actually made contact with Dolamar? We you are that as of a few days ago, about 160,000 people in the US were without power? I don't know where Dolamar is from, but do you ever consider alternatives before jumping to conclusions?

 

#edit: re-worded.

 

If you read what i said carefully I said i pmd dolamar several times and he ignored my pm,s

I didnt say the reply i got was *player not ingame*.

He ignored my pms!!

 

 

 

I read what you said. Firefox has a handy little search function (ctrl+f). A search for "[PM to Dolamar" yielded nothing.

[Ozmondius]

I just want your definition of "common sense." First it was "proof" now it's "common sense." I think it's only fair to understand your definitions since you feel compelled to consistently comment on the quality of people's evidence concerning potential outlaw behavior. By the way, I didn't do anything to that picture, just took it and cut out stats

 

Even Rayla believes the evidence presented, lol.

 

Also, as you look at www.dictionary.com to read this post, look up ad hominem argument, you'll find that it is illogical and not remotely close to "common sense."

Edited February 4, 2009 by Ozmondius

[annatira]

Seems to me the issue is whether or not this occurred, not who defines what how etc etc etc. Given that the alleged bad guy has not responded I guess we can all make our own minds up about who is guilty. Let's move on.

 

And Rayla's LOL post was deleted, as the rules clearly state. 2. As always, nonsense posts, spam, off-topic, "lol"'s and name-calling posts will be deleted.

[the_grud]

Thank you all for your views on my original post.

Its been very interesting/entertaining lol

 

If a moderater could lock the post now it would be appreciated

[Aislinn]

No, if you bring up an accusation, especially with no proof, you can't just lock it and not let others respond within the rules of this section, or defend themselves.

That is just not fair. Nor do we take requests for locking threads.

[MagpieLee]

Just curious, you also commited the "crime" of not using a ros stone when wearing items such as CoL.

 

Honestly if you can afford to buy a COL (60kgc) then you can easily afford a rosto (20kgc). I dug out the prices to be the excessive top end of the market but I hope people will take lessons and learn not to strut around sporting nice gear and lose it to DB jumpers.

 

As for the Dolamar incident - I think its fair to say without considerable doubt that Dolamar is probably guilty. What a pity that Dolamar isn't here to stand his ground and speak about it from his point of view

[Entris]

Wow it's amazing that the "proof" thing is coming up again, sure everything can be altered to one way or another and the accusations can be false and if someone puts something up here and ppl doubt the "proof" then why is there a dispute forum here at all?

I mean you could say that it's fake or what ever to everything unless you get a written statement that the person accused did it and feels good about it (meaning posting an answer in their own outlaw thread) but if they don't do just that should we then assume that the person is innocent and never done anything bad at all and think everything is safe...

In other threads where someone puts up a warning ppl go like "thx for the warning" "PK-List" "killed 50 times last night" and stuff like that why not now?

 

Closing a thread without letting the accused get a chance to defend themselfs or brag about doing it is a bad idea and as Aisy said not fair and Lee i've done the exact same thing twice! Learned my lesson now tho lol

[Dolamar]

well i have now finally received validation for the forum (didn't know i had to post request as a guest ). After receiving many ingame pm's about the incident i decided to check forums, i would now like to give my account.

 

first off, i deny taking his db. though ofcourse that is all irrelivent as i can give no proof towards that solution as well. From what i have ascertained from reading this thread many times over it is clear that a lot is in question. It is very possible that i was in DP storage at the time of the incident and it may even be possible i walked right over the db, or the bag that they claim i am standing on in a so far unexistent screenshot was mine, but i never took any col's or mol's from a db. As to me being logged off by the time i was pm'ed my only response is that it is very possible i could have simply logged out for a while, i mean is that such an impossible thing? In response to my messages from gossip, i never felt inclined to answer for after being kicked out of my guild for something i did not do and having accusations thrown at me i was quite annoyed and just figured "whatever ill just let it blow over", but as i have seen lately this incident has gotten much more attention than i beleive it is due. Now i am not in any way denying The_Grud's claim that some lowlife took his db but it was not me. as he said it was taken in dp storage which on average has around 20 people in it pretty much at all times, and many are n00bs who would love to get their hands on it. Also i know that The_Grud's guildie was there as well and that his word is also something to go by but in the chatlog he claims he was not even paying attention therefore someone could very well have taken it before i was anywhere near it. I truthfully can think of a thousand different reasons to why i could be accused and a thousand different reasons as to why i am obviously innocent, but as recently stated no conclusions can be made without perfect proof and unfortunately like in the salem witch trials the only people who can possibly know the truth is the victim/accuser and the accused.

 

please take my words into consideration in the matter and do not say that the_grud is simply making false accusations because i doubt he is and see no reason for him to do so. also i have recently talked to my guild leader snowghost and he has agreed to let me back in the guild after hearing in depth, my arguments, so ofcourse no hard feelings. though lol i do suggest using a rosto when you have your col out lol no offense....

 

ps. if you see any gaps in my reasoning or i have been unclear on anything please feel free to message me, reply, or ask for clarification.

 

Thank you for your time

Dolamar

Edited February 4, 2009 by Dolamar

[Snosrap]

Pssst.....if the incident involved a "death" for any reason, please do not call it nor claim it to be 'bagjumping". Plus, if you are going to eat toads or someting like that, expect to die once in awhile. Have a rosto or dont complain about a death bag not being returned.

 

Snos