Removing TS effect

[flexus]

Well, not sure if I remove it completly, or just remove the stacking effect, but if I remove it completely I will make some more spawns and possibly 2 'bridge' monsters.

 

yes and yes, would love to see more/different monsters to train on.

[Shujral]

The second question was designed exclusively for those who answered "No" to the first question, but It would seem one *has* to answer both parts. It's extremely silly to ask "Would you like to see changes made to the game?" without any other context.

[Sir_Exeus]

armed orcs suck because to do them u have to ruin ur build...then go to fluf/cyc and ur p/c/v are all screwd. ..

[Zamirah]

armed orcs suck because to do them u have to ruin ur build...then go to fluf/cyc and ur p/c/v are all screwd. ..

Removal stones

[korrode]

armed orcs suck because to do them u have to ruin ur build...then go to fluf/cyc and ur p/c/v are all screwd. ..

What? o,O'

[piojosnos]

Yes and yes!

 

Very few players bash higher level mobs with swords as soon as they can barely survive such fight. I wish we had a way to encourage people to do it more and reward them for doing that, rather than force them to endless hours of boxing mobs being semi-afk with minimal risk of dying, resources use or gear breakage risk.

 

Perhaps a solution would be exp rising or decreasing exponentially rather than linear, depending on what is the difference between yours and monster's a/d or CL.

 

Same rule applied to drops as well (more gc's and bigger chance for special drops the weaker you are and the more challenging your enemy is) would surely convince people to move to higher level mobs faster but unfortunately I have no answer here how to prevent abuse like high level fighter taking mob to 1 hp and low level killing it for higher value drop. In order to introduce such changes, TS pots effect would have to be entirely removed as well.

 

I like this one. I would be nice to use swords for something else than training manu or harvesting hydro

 

I'd rather see some nice new monsters than use TS.

 

I always thought casting spells should be possible with positive food only - that would eliminate the problem of TSed training totally.

 

I agree too! I really would like to see some new nice (err ugly) monsters.

 

Yes and Yes...

Something between ogres and clops would be nice.

At least I'm not the only one.

 

No, you are not the only one.

[Tico]

I think that TS the way it is helps ppl to get more exp on higher levels... i belive when you are in higher levels it should became harder to level up.

 

Unfortunatelly for us mortals... there is some chars that used a lot ts and got a/d skill in a level that is realy hard to reach without t-s.

 

removing the ts effect would be the best thing for the game, although, top a/d chars will be hardly reached in their levels from other chars.

this gap will probably unmotivate ppl on keeping training since there exp/hour will reduce drasticly (*my grammar is probably wrong).

 

in long terms its for the best.

[DHT]

May I suggest that we consider the potion makers and not just the fighters? Will it effect the potion market? I imagine that is has the potential. It won't hurt it, will it? Please check on this.

 

The potionists would not feel a thing if TS pots will become unused. They're a very good leveling item, I personally have mixed a ton of them, and still have ings for over 15k in storage. However, I sold only a few hundred to other players, 90% goes to NPC. Sure, you can get a bit more gcs from players, but you'll be standing at a marketstall for a year before you sell 15k TS pots.

 

 

 

doesnt like 80% of TS pots go to NPC already ?

 

okay, this is a bit off topic, but...you really believe it's 80%?! I've never sold TS pots to NPC personally so I'm actually curious about this.

 

I believe it's more than 80%....

[Segor]

armed orcs suck because to do them u have to ruin ur build...then go to fluf/cyc and ur p/c/v are all screwd. ..

They are quite nice for training if you you are tired of ogres and can't train cyclops.

And there is a nice place where I used to get more leather armor drops than I used (without NMT perk), also no need for SRs as I could use mana drain on one of the mobs.

Where is it? if you don't know it just scout a bit around Irillion

[Cruella]

Armed orcs are excellent :-) Especially in one mine where 2 male and 2 female spawn, and cyclop, troll or ogre occasionally visit You can trainin on them and use a sword to deal with a cyclop when he comes, which makes training quite a fun. As to the drops, armed orcs drop both he's and SR's no one probably mentioned before, as well as Naralik and WS rings, plus iron helms. The time between ogres and clops is probably the fastest stage and really was easy, at least for me. When armed orcs seem easy you can gradually move to cycs in the same mine. By the way, no build corrections were required before moving fully to clops (I have just added more coords then). So much for a bridge between ogres and clops.

[eagleprince]

I'd rather see some nice new monsters than use TS.

 

I always thought casting spells should be possible with positive food only - that would eliminate the problem of TSed training totally.

Best idea in this thread.

 

I second that

If this is implemented, it will cause problems unless we define the kinds of spells that should be uncastable on an empty stomach. It will also put guys with the PH perk at an extreme disadvantage, especially as there is - as far as I know - no stone to remove it. Ok, it's a negative perk, but....

 

It would be a lot simpler to let the a/d reduction wear out with time like other normal potion effects - regardless of food level.

Edited January 28, 2009 by EaglePrince

[Dilly]

there was an hours long discussion in channel 6 last night, in which all this was discussed, and from what i got from it certain changes were made on the spot and other decisions were made. Seen as I haven't been able to follow all of it, perhaps one of the people that did, could give us a little headsup on the whole thing?

[SenZon]

i was here for awhile and from what i got is , no food = no spell

Reduced respwn time of armed orcs.

Reduced respwn time of yeti and decreased its rare drop rate.

Added a few Mountain Chim spwn.

Added a few Forest Chim spwm , reduced their attributes.

 

SenZon has logged off. :< anything after tht i missed

[conavar]

90% sure it was decided against using the No food = no spell idea

[SenZon]

Yes i was informed about tht a few mins ago was about to edit

[korrode]

i was here for awhile and from what i got is , no food = no spell

As Cona said, decided against it in the end. Instead the a/d lowering fail effect is simply being removed.

 

Added a few Mountain Chim spwn.

They're also getting a reduction in respawn time.

 

Added a few Forest Chim spwm , reduced their attributes.

Ya, specifically their crit rate and armor has been reduced... i also hope Radu will consider upping their health to 300, bringing them in-line with Feros (being the other ~30 sec respawn, low def/high att creature)... but if their health is left at 250 will still be ok.

 

 

...all of that's IIRC, but im pretty sure it's all right, i was paying quite a bit of attention

 

Cool changes, training will be more fun and interesting

Edited January 28, 2009 by Korrode

[SenZon]

Really Awesome , i have been dreaming about changes like this

[Dilly]

thanks Senz, Korr and Cona for the recap

 

And thanks Radu for taking the time to talk to us for as long as you did last night about all this and involving us, and for filtering out the bs from the valuable and constructive things that were said.

[Raz]

[radu @ 6]: anyway, I also decreased the yeti respawn time

[radu @ 6]: ok, well, I decreased the armed male orcs time a lot

[radu @ 6]: nvm, I will let the ferans be for now, just adjusted the male and female orcs

[radu @ 6]: ok, I reduced their armor and criticals <ref fcw>

[radu @ 6]: and I added 3 FCs in kusamura, but the spawns are in such a way so you can't get more than 1 spawn

[radu @ 6]: the FCs are goign to stay in WV as well

[radu @ 6]: yes, will add more <ref mcw>

[radu @ 6]: yes, will add them to nrm <ref mcw>

 

at that point I had to log - and of course things may well have changed afterthat

[Ateh]

so we have lost TS in exchange for being able to train on chims ?

 

[sarcasm] will we also be voting on loosing something else when korrode gets to yeti training but doesnt think its good enough ? [/sarcasm] ( cant help myself )

Edited January 28, 2009 by Ateh

[Khalai]

so we have lost TS in exchange for being able to train on chims ?

 

[sarcasm] will we also be voting on loosing something else when korrode gets to yeti training but doesnt think its good enough ? [/sarcasm] ( cant help myself )

 

Do not forget about armed orcs, reducing their painfully long respawn is a very good change.

[conavar]

so we have lost TS in exchange for being able to train on chims ?

 

Well since A.orcs,chims and Yeti we decided upon to be changed last night, not really sure you have a point (and more creatures might be changed, added )

 

The changes were needed to Ts and chims to force players to move off creatures below they level, such as Feros.To free the spawns up for players such as yourself who might one day train them.

 

Adding new spawns was needed since iirc they was only 6 Fcw spawns and 4 Mchim spawns in the whole game, compared to say 20+ Ogre spawns, and with the new spawns and extra tweaks players should now have a viable option other than Feros/Dcw to train

Edited January 28, 2009 by conavar

[Shadow_runner]

Voted yes/yes.

 

As we all know dedicated a/d trainers seek maximum exp/hr at minimum cost. Maybe if we had 'bridge' monsters giving competitive exp some players would finally move up from low level stuff they stay on for ages. I'm afraid however that would not solve the problem entirely.

 

The truth is people stay on relatively weak monsters forever since it is risk(break)-free and provides small but constant income and exp as well. They also use a minimal amount of resources (HE's and SR's) so they can keep spawn forever and train for hours without a need to restock.

 

Very few players bash higher level mobs with swords as soon as they can barely survive such fight. I wish we had a way to encourage people to do it more and reward them for doing that, rather than force them to endless hours of boxing mobs being semi-afk with minimal risk of dying, resources use or gear breakage risk.

 

Perhaps a solution would be exp rising or decreasing exponentially rather than linear, depending on what is the difference between yours and monster's a/d or CL.

 

Same rule applied to drops as well (more gc's and bigger chance for special drops the weaker you are and the more challenging your enemy is) would surely convince people to move to higher level mobs faster but unfortunately I have no answer here how to prevent abuse like high level fighter taking mob to 1 hp and low level killing it for higher value drop. In order to introduce such changes, TS pots effect would have to be entirely removed as well.

 

Putting it in very simple words - when your levels are perfect for dchims, you should be entirely discouraged to go train on feros and rather encouraged to go kill yetis for way higher drops and exp than on chims (but facing severe risk and using lots of resources).

 

Now this is just wishful thinking, I don't know how difficult such solution would be to code on the server side but I guess it is some food for thought, just my 2 cents.

 

Some great ideas there.

 

Also someone mentioned another possible idea: That of either / or. Each creature / monster giving either good xp or good drop. Not both.

 

I voted no/yes. Having spent what felt like forever training on fem / male Orcs. I am not looking forward to another lifetime spent training on Ogres. So if removing TS. Then 2 more most likely more bridging monsters would need to follow. IMO

 

As Kusa and Trass maps are now mostly ghost maps. Tweak lion into a monster, making it a bridge monster from Ogre to cyclops might be a good idea. Thus kusa map will be used more. A new monster in Trass for another bridge monster. Breath some life back into those maps.

 

Each location / map should have some kind of 'use' IMO.

[DanRothar]

Very few players bash higher level mobs with swords as soon as they can barely survive such fight. I wish we had a way to encourage people to do it more and reward them for doing that, rather than force them to endless hours of boxing mobs being semi-afk with minimal risk of dying, resources use or gear breakage risk.

 

Perhaps a solution would be exp rising or decreasing exponentially rather than linear, depending on what is the difference between yours and monster's a/d or CL.

 

Same rule applied to drops as well (more gc's and bigger chance for special drops the weaker you are and the more challenging your enemy is) would surely convince people to move to higher level mobs faster but unfortunately I have no answer here how to prevent abuse like high level fighter taking mob to 1 hp and low level killing it for higher value drop. In order to introduce such changes, TS pots effect would have to be entirely removed as well.

 

Putting it in very simple words - when your levels are perfect for dchims, you should be entirely discouraged to go train on feros and rather encouraged to go kill yetis for way higher drops and exp than on chims (but facing severe risk and using lots of resources).

 

Now this is just wishful thinking, I don't know how difficult such solution would be to code on the server side but I guess it is some food for thought, just my 2 cents.

I must say that though I'm not much of a fighter I have often wondered why you'd get better at fighting with a sword by not wielding one while fighting than you would by wielding a sword. Simply doesn't make sense to me. I don't know if it's possible but if the xp from fighting was changed so that you got some xp based on the damage you do as well as the xp from hit/evade, this would make fighters train on higher monsters, and wishing to do as much damage as possible on each hit.

 

This will have the added effect to increase the demand for weapons, as fighters would break more swords.

 

Finally how about leaving the ts "penalty" but making it a true penalty, where the xp is calculated based on your un-lowered a/d.

[nathanstenzel]

doesnt like 80% of TS pots go to NPC already ?

No clue. I just thought that it would be polite and correct to consider more than just one side of the TS deal.