Resource shortages idea

[Cruella]

Making resources finite would have a negative influence on a number of things, including character development. In a game where advancement in skills is based on repetition there shouldn't be a limit of resources available. They can be easier or more difficult to get but always available. Having always a single good spot where they respawn is not enough in my opinion.

[Raz]

I also believe that the loss of a particular harvestable for a week would have little/no effect on the game. The odd exception such as Hydro/Gyp/Wolf may cause a fluctuation, but I doubt it.

 

As for the idea of each clump of ore having a finite amount of ore per 'timeperiod', if implemented, care would be needed to ensure that each 'rl' time zone gets a fair share.

Far better would be to have a lengthening delay between harvests according to how much had already been mined that period - ie the more taken from a location, the longer it takes to get the next ore. The time only decreases when the ore has not been harvested for a time.

This would cause a HUGE change to the whole of EL. Rare ores spots would be used, maps explored - and resource locations jealously guarded.

[DHT]

This idea also requires 2 or 4 version for a lot of objects and textures. Not really doable with the resources we have.

 

If you give up the textures part (making snow on the maps etc), it would only need a few versions of .dev file for that particular map in which the harvestables change. Adding unharvestable for some resources and increasing harvest speed/rate for others wouldn't be so hard. Although it might look weird to see a bunch of flowers in a map in winter even though they are not harvestable (removing them and adding snow would be more realistic), but the above mentioned idea would be an easier way out.

 

 

Concerning the resource shortage idea in overall, I guess it would have really major effects on economy if I get it correctly. Players get richer and more items are harvested/made in the game nowadays, because there are more harvesters/mixers, but having a static amount of resource to be harved per some time period would slow down the infliation (on the other hand, it might bring in more concurrence among sellers/buyers).

Edited October 21, 2008 by DHT

[Cruella]

a static amount of resource to be harved per some time period would slow down the infliation

 

a scarce of resources causes always hyperinflation - economy 101

[hussam]

Shortage of harvestables should only be in items that regenerate like fruit, flowers, etc...

 

Other items like metal ores are different. If you run out of titanium in a deposit, it should be forever.

[Aphistolas]

a static amount of resource to be harved per some time period would slow down the infliation

 

a scarce of resources causes always hyperinflation - economy 101

 

Not to mention there is hardly any significant inflation occurring within EL, Ent keeps up with the prices of things and has data to adjust or modify stuff in-game as nessecary.

[Ateh]

* About Making Resources Finite *

 

People keep suggesting this but im not sure this is a great idea in a game such as EL !!!

 

Imagine the scenario where you create ALOT more harvesting teams , who literally go around in groups starving each location of ores to satisfy the demand for a particular harvestable. The two that are most obvious are Iron ore and Silver ore. These two are used alot, and Im sure what would happen eventually is you have a gang of dedicated harvesters who move in a pack around EL depleting every available ore.

 

Also can you imagine the people who only play a few times a week ? WHat the hell again would this do for them ? They log in and find themselves unable to harvest what they need to level simply because others already got there before them and have now moved onto the next ore to finish that off to ?? This is insanity lol

 

Really wtf ? Why does EL need to simulate RL like this ? The way EL is you really have to work your ass off to level anything anyway, finite resources means an end to freedom of levelling what you want to.

 

People talk about resources like theres hundreds of them in the game, there isnt ! Im trying to think of how many iron ore deposits are in the game and I can think off the top of my head perhaps 6 at the most ?? It really wouldnt take long for people to exhaust that and then your stuck with no iron ore.

 

Also again I really dont think anyone is taking into consideration that people dont give a shit how much base ingredients cost , and thats as it is right now , people will only pay the lowest possible price for anything ( which keeps going down on certain high end items ) , they are not going to care if suddenly the cost of base ingredients goes up a bit, because there will allways be a few players/bots who want to undercut the rest and end up screwing anyone else who is looking to break even.

 

Why this whole thing will help the economy is completely beyond me ......... its all very well quoting economic principles but apply your harvard degree to the cost of a great sword in EL and then lets talk...........

 

sorry about the long post *yawn*

[nathanstenzel]

If you have resources run out permanently, that would suck unless new resources are found elsewhere.

 

If you have a limit to how much can be harvested from a deposit in an hour, it wouldn't be as bad. Basically, each resource could have a quantity that would be increased incrementally with time. One hour is a course measure of time.

 

Limiting resources would require one thing to help fight inflation. What is that one thing? The ability to recycle anything, of course. Need metal? Recycle a sword or some old metal armor. Coal and FE, of course could never be recycled. It would only apply to metals.

[Cycloonx]

"Speculation" isn't possible if the resource is chosen randomly. It would just be luck if you got a bunch of resources of it in storage and probably first days no one will sell. Just imagine the resource is silver ore, that will mean almost no HE and a lot of other items. The market will get stuck very fast, fighters won't be able to fight and a lot of people will get bored.

[The_Piper]

Just imagine the resource is silver ore, that will mean almost no HE and a lot of other items. The market will get stuck very fast, fighters won't be able to fight and a lot of people will get bored.

 

True, thats why i suggested that not a whole resource runs out, but only single spots of the resource, so you can still move to the next spot and see, if there is something left.

 

Piper

[Aphistolas]

People talk about resources like theres hundreds of them in the game, there isnt ! Im trying to think of how many iron ore deposits are in the game and I can think off the top of my head perhaps 6 at the most ?? It really wouldnt take long for people to exhaust that and then your stuck with no iron ore.

 

Indeed, though the number of resources in a game isn't limited by the availability (unless the resource is exceedingly rare; gypsum, hydrogenium, wolfram, dvarium), rather the will and number of players willing to travel to the resources and spend time/will extracting them. Compared to most MMORPGs, I'd hazard a guess EL has a rather small 'population' of active players (though still certainly nothing to sneeze at), with significantly fewer 'harvesting anomalies' (people who spend 8hrs+ a day harvesting), the influx of resources to the production of items seems at least somewhat stable to me. I'd have to ask, why bother disrupting this system? The ultra-rate items are already classed as commodities (limiting them only has been suggested before), it is demonstrated that people will very rarely pay above established prices, and people very reluctantly sell to others who pay lower than reagents cost.

 

If anything, I think the problem of selling ingredients for less than their worth should be addressed before making any changes to the resource flow. As Nathan' will gladly tell you, the price of Great Swords is considerably lower than the actual ingredients cost, as the established price is about 15% lower than the 'true' price (+- 10%).

 

 

...because there will allways be a few players/bots who want to undercut the rest and end up screwing anyone else who is looking to break even.

 

This is another example of the EL gold-flow that confuses me. In reality, if you are of significant skill to make something uncommon, your skills are valued (as opposed to those who possess no such skills) and sought after. Admittedly, EL has an abundance of players with the 'uncommon' skill level, however even with the levelling price of most skills reduced to zero due to age (tailors place rather large taxes on their products not just because the market is small and the reagents are expensive, the fact that there are magnitudes more manufacturers/alchemists/potioners in game means the tailor's skills are rarer), the base prices on items should always be covered, as if there isn't the incentive to level is reduced.

 

A few months ago I thought of a radical solution; if someone can get the vast majority of manufacturers in game to cease making swords, the demand for them (within a few months) will rise, as swords will become a commodity. This would solve the problem of base pricing, but is only a short-term measure. Unless the influx of swords is regulated strictly (extremely hard to do - people always willing to make 'specially' for guildies/friends/allies) the price will gradually fall as rarity is no longer an issue.

 

Perhaps, as a more permanent solution, the price of ingredients could be reduced? This would be brought about by making ingredients less difficult to get, though still carry the limit of people's wills and endurances. In short, if the stone finding chance was increased, or harvesting the higher-level ores required for swords were easier, the base price of swords would fall, and predictably the market value of them would remain constant. The manufacturer is no longer making a loss between 4-7kgc by making any Great Swords.

 

Why this whole thing will help the economy is completely beyond me ......... its all very well quoting economic principles but apply your harvard degree to the cost of a great sword in EL and then lets talk...........

 

True, though EL's economy was based and maintains off of real life policies and established traditions/principles, continually assuming RL will apply isn't logical. In real life, people reach the poverty line, can't find work, die of lack of 'resources' (like food, water, heat) and obviously cease to exist, meaning people are *forced* to sell prices at a bare minimum profit-margin. This doesn't work in EL.

[Desertus]

I do really like the original and the Usl's idea, they would add some fun randomness to the game,

like astro(which I actualy like), without messing everything up completely.

 

But I do really dislike the finite reasources idea, all we can do here is harvesting, mixing or fighting(there are almost no quests and no minigames), limiting the first one will limit the rest.

We do need thousands of harvestables (or products made with em) to be able to get any levels in any skill, get any money, pk, participate on invasions etc, to be able to actualy do anything.

 

EDIT:typo

Edited October 21, 2008 by Desertus

[Guest GEMrose]

The bottom line is I don’t think closing harvestable areas is a good idea. Following is my reasoning.

1. It would be an extreme hardship for noobies to achieve a higher level in their chosen skill. Making it difficult does not necessarily endure newcomers to stay with the game or want to achieve. (This is true in RL as well). I foresee players being frustrated and leaving the game.

2. Limited time/days to obtain commodities is not achievable for most players whose 24hr day is dedicated to work, families, chores, etc. and only have 1-2 hrs of playable EL time 2-3 days a week.

3. There are a high percentage of “negative” special EL days now, and most chars will log off and come back when the EL day is done or change their focus of the day. Although “Leonard” hours are fun for a certain percentage of players, have you ever noticed how many online will participate, compared to those who don’t. Same with invasions.

4. I ascertain that more harvestable areas on more maps would encourage characters to explore the unused areas. Special positive events in the unused areas would also encourage characters to bring into play those areas. I.e, the special secrets garden in Tarsengaard.

 

If the object of change is to move commodities and GC economy flowing faster than there is other fun ways to achieve this. Suggestions follow:

1. Special days that offer players commodities at discount prices. (As in RL). Use the marketing plans of RL stores. “2-for-1’s”; garage sales held in storage areas; NPC’s special sales held on 1st Friday of the month; Bot special sales held on 2nd Sunday of the month; Guild special sales held on 3rd Sat of the month. The lower prices would get the GC economy flowing real fast.

2. More “positive” EL special days; a. “I feel full” day, when your food level does not go down as you mix, fight, etc. b. “I’ve got a secret bush” day, when you get 5x the harvestable items, be it flowers, ores, gems, etc. The secret bush would change locations with each special day. Characters would have fun searching exploring for them.

3. In RL it has been seen that when commodities reach an over-valued price, consumers cut down on their spending and use of that commodity. Let’s not have that happen in EL. The majority of people play EL to escape the stress of RL, and we come together to play a fun game and talk to the special friends we had met and look forward to getting to know those we have yet to meet.

[Aphistolas]

To summarise my post, why should we introduce a system that will throw the regular journey of gold even further out of wack? There is no proper inflation in this game; resources get rarer, prices stay the same.

Edited October 21, 2008 by Aphistolas

[Norm]

I think USL's idea is worth trying at least, it will lend to role playing, and interaction. As far as the economy goes, it seems we are lucky, we have 100's of economy majors and experts, so I'm sure we can work out any issues.

[Zenial]

Yes, we could give usl's idea a try. Better yet, we could give the_piper's idea a try.

 

usl's idea will effect more than just the harvest items. It also stand to affect:

• creature training areas (for example; the skeletons in pl titanium mine or goblins and orcs in votd gold mine)
  
• bots which are located in caves will be cut off
  
• walkways between maps will be shut off
  

Therefore, maps to be used in this idea would have to be chosen selectively, thus not having the full effect.

 

Rather than making 3-4 different copies of the one map for the "seasons" we're not doing, would having 3-4 different sets of harvest items on the server be another option, sending harvestable ID and co-ords for a region of a map?

[korrode]

As i am against astrology in that it doesn't allow players to do what they want, when they; something that could be extremely annoying for a person who doesn't have many hours a week to play, in the same fashion i am against all these ideas.

 

...in principle that is. For me personally, i couldn't care less, i almost don't harvest now, and very soon i wont harvest at all.

 

The vast majority of EL's players are not serious roleplayers, so adding 'negative' stuff and justifying it as being good for roleplay is invalid reasoning, imo.

Edited October 21, 2008 by Korrode

[annatira]

What if, for every harvestable that is unavailable (because of cave-in, flood, resources drying up, whatever reason) another shows up someplace else? The silver in MM disappears, omg, the race is on, find the new silver site. Those that do make some strides while everyone else looks frantically.

 

Do you tell allies? Do you stay up all night harvesting to get an edge in this commodity market? How do you hide this new site from everyone, shall we harvest invisible? Who blabs and tells everyone?

 

Eventually when the old resource is available this one dries up again, but in the meatime, more maps are scouted, people work together to find and harvest the new site. I see some interesting possibilities.

 

Just a thought.

[Keegs_Mom]

What if, for every harvestable that is unavailable (because of cave-in, flood, resources drying up, whatever reason) another shows up someplace else? The silver in MM disappears, omg, the race is on, find the new silver site. Those that do make some strides while everyone else looks frantically.

 

Do you tell allies? Do you stay up all night harvesting to get an edge in this commodity market? How do you hide this new site from everyone, shall we harvest invisible? Who blabs and tells everyone?

 

Eventually when the old resource is available this one dries up again, but in the meatime, more maps are scouted, people work together to find and harvest the new site. I see some interesting possibilities.

 

Just a thought.

 

I like it Anna! Looking for new resources is fun

[Burn]

"Massive flooding has rendered KF inaccessible. Authorities have closed all entrances."

 

Natural disasters wouldn't have to affect just harvesters. They could be used to make PKers cry too.

[DHT]

2. More “positive” EL special days; a. “I feel full” day, when your food level does not go down as you mix, fight, etc. b. “I’ve got a secret bush” day, when you get 5x the harvestable items, be it flowers, ores, gems, etc. The secret bush would change locations with each special day. Characters would have fun searching exploring for them.

 

Have you heard of Joule's day and Aleksei Stakhanov Day? o0

[Gen_Axis]

Anyway, having unaccessible RANDOM resuorce each week would be cool addition Great idea :]

 

 

PS. About seasons, I hope one day they will be implemented (still remember xmass tree on IP), and how about having cold in winter ? Loosing hp if not wear warm clothes ?

 

 

 

EDIT: typos, duh !

Edited October 22, 2008 by Gen_Axis

[Aphistolas]

What if, for every harvestable that is unavailable (because of cave-in, flood, resources drying up, whatever reason) another shows up someplace else? The silver in MM disappears, omg, the race is on, find the new silver site. Those that do make some strides while everyone else looks frantically.

 

Do you tell allies? Do you stay up all night harvesting to get an edge in this commodity market? How do you hide this new site from everyone, shall we harvest invisible? Who blabs and tells everyone?

 

Eventually when the old resource is available this one dries up again, but in the meatime, more maps are scouted, people work together to find and harvest the new site. I see some interesting possibilities.

 

Just a thought.

 

Would require more time of the mapmakers, forcing them to make mundane updates every week or so (how interesting is adding one resource, and then taking it away, going to be?).

 

It's a little futile, too... It just makes harvesting and getting gold to use on other things more difficult. You'd need to spend more time just making up your harvested total on the optimally-placed resource. I'd certainly be extremely frustrated if I had to sit in CC mining, then returning to storage every load. The game should allow for 'rewards' of people that worked to achieve something. I explored C2 for awhile, run the risk of encountering Leo, and spend money on replacements (pickaxes, medallions, health essences, etc.) to find the best silver spots. With this addition, all my hard work is in vain, and I must constantly undergo the first steps to harvesting (finding a resource) every week. That would really make me tired.

[Miiks]

It sounds weird, that you just can't harvest something. Even there is some kind of explanation to it, you can still see the harvestable item, but not harv it. This is just my opinion and I don't know if it distracts anyone else

[nathanstenzel]

Of course, any changes that would affect harvestables and routes would need to have server coding done to automate the process and not require the work of mapmakers more than once per map. Otherwise, such a thing would drive them to madness.