Removing rule 5 (multiplaying)

[Moebird]

Be careful what you ask for.......you might get it.

[robotbob]

I vote No.

 

Mostly because I don't need to remember any more passwords. And I also feel it would throw off the economy. Now if we could get all those bots off the market channel and onto one of thier own we would truely attain harmony

 

Just curious, you feel it may throw off the economy, but you don't know about "#ignore_bots" ?

 

I just have one question to offer, can anyone give a concise example of how it will affect

the economy?

[kailomonkey]

Alts crowd the game with zombie-players No

 

Edit: Seriously though, this is a great game with a great player-base of descent people. Keeping the multi-rule (one that is based in positive principles) well enforced has a positive effect on the players who come to abide here, in my opinion. It is one of the very difficult rules to combat against on internet games in general. Thankyou mods for working so hard. <end butt kissing> No seriously, stay positive!

Edited October 13, 2008 by kailomonkey

[conavar]

I just have one question to offer, can anyone give a concise example of how it will affect

the economy?

 

Well its just theory atm because nothing can be proved either way, but if with the increased harvesters the "find" rates for stones are changed to be low, then the price for say a serp stone could increase 10 fold, and while this might be fine for ppl who can run a few alts, it totally buggers ppl with only one char, and moves the goalposts in favour of those with the best comp rather than those who (ingame) work the hardest. The same could be said of mob drop rates.

An economy should be based on "1 person = 1 char" and not on " well you could afford it if you had 5 alts" since not everyone wants or should be forced to have 5 alts just to be able to compete.

 

 

But like I said just theory atm

[Guest Trojan_Knight]

I vote No.

 

Mostly because I don't need to remember any more passwords. And I also feel it would throw off the economy. Now if we could get all those bots off the market channel and onto one of thier own we would truely attain harmony

 

Just curious, you feel it may throw off the economy, but you don't know about "#ignore_bots" ?

 

I just have one question to offer, can anyone give a concise example of how it will affect

the economy?

 

Individuals become self relient due to a alt char for each skill so they horde everything to make for themselfs. A new player to the game has no clue how to do a anything.. Doesn't create any alts, has low knowledge of the game. Wants items, items are more then just overly expensive. Due to hording.

 

Other example. The market becomes flooded with items due to massive amt of alts doing same things. Everyone wants to get rid of a lot of items of the same types. So a price war begins amongst the community of who sells what cheaper. Prices per item drop to record lows.

[boognish]

If this were to go through, significant changes would need to be made to balance the game

NPC wouldn't buy raw materials

many perks would need to be changed

PVP fighting would get no experience benefit

just to name a few..

does this really need to change?

[big_duo]

No

[Ateh]

would it be possible to review the interaction family members are allowed with each other ? And if it is possible to prove within reasonable doubt that we are indeed two seperate people, allow us to interact as you would allow any other players in the game to interact , within the rules ,who do not share the same IP ?

 

at the moment the way rule 5 stands Im not allowed to do certain things with my wife that I could do with other people.

 

Im going to list the thing I think I cant do, and it would be nice to get a response as to wether or not im right, not only to clear it up for a few other people but also to show the restrictions put on family players from rule 5.

 

This doesnt concern illegal multi from 1 person running 2-3 characters, this is about genuine family members and what they can and cant do due to rule 5 as it it as the moment.

 

1. Im not allowed to mule with my wife harvestables to and from storage ?

2. Im not allowed to excessively trade with my wife i.e trade numerous times a day for small or large quantitys of goods

3. Im not allowed to gift items to my wife, for example buy her a brand new COL as a gift, would I have to ask permission from a moderator to do this ?

4. Trade un-reasonably with her , for example I give her 200gc and 1k sulfur Sulfur for 1k Health Essences, or vice versa.

[robotbob]

I just have one question to offer, can anyone give a concise example of how it will affect

the economy?

 

Well its just theory atm because nothing can be proved either way, but if with the increased harvesters the "find" rates for stones

are changed to be low, then the price for say a serp stone could increase 10 fold, and while this might be fine for ppl who can run a

few alts, it totally buggers ppl with only one char, and moves the goalposts in favour of those with the best comp rather than those

who (ingame) work the hardest. The same could be said of mob drop rates.

An economy should be based on "1 person = 1 char" and not on " well you could afford it if you had 5 alts" since not everyone wants or should be forced to have 5 alts just to be able to compete.

 

 

But like I said just theory atm

 

So it more about the speed in which one -human- player can gain wealth in-game, through in-game means.

 

I guess the person most likely to lose out, in this arrangement is the person playing one

character, never using real world money to buy in-game items.

 

side note:

{

Which would end up being me, since I cannot run 4-5 charas, all day and would get financially

'pWn'd' by a 15 yr old with beacoups of free time, but like that was not the case before. Im an allrounder

and this would totally squash my reasons for being one :/

}

 

As I see it, those stating "it would cause a massive influx of iron ore, etc" don't see that, 500 new players

will cause that as well, and we all want to see 500+ new players join the game.

 

I can only see 'rare' items price becoming inflated (its already happening, 20k rosto ftl), and not production items. As it currently

stands, there are few skills that are in fact profitable. Take manu, Steel Greaves cost 27k+ to make, but no one will pay that.

This would at least allow a player to manu, serve and ultimately break those items on various characters. Granted this is

all "In House" production.

 

So to stop production items (items you make not find)from bottoming out price wise, create NPCs that buy them, and ensure the

bottom price? Or make a spell that transmutes those items into GC?

 

So we probably need to address, "How does this affect the one character, no usd player? Can s\he ever compete?"

Probably the real issue here, instead of the 'human interaction" and 'ruin the economy" reasons. It seems it more about

the playing field becoming grossly unleveled for the lone character rpg'r.

Just trying to keep an open mind, since my last reaction was hEll-NO! Really

because I did not want to play that way, but hell, its not about ensuring my personal playing style.

 

(And yes, PVP would have to Die. or you could pvp, your alts insanely fast, in a guild map to levels

requiring RL interventions. And this would have a profound change on Attack and Defense leveling )

[Ateh]

forgot to add another thing Im not allowed to do with my wife due to rule 5

 

5. PVP together , even though we are two different people and its blatantly obvious we are two different people from our playing styles and from the fact shes pregnant and im not

 

6. Range together PVP

 

7. Increase magic skill together using mana drain, same as PVP but still, I dont think were allowed to do it

 

8. Not allowed to restock each other while a/d training -- im sure ive seen that this is frowned upon even with diff IP owners because of teh community , but it happens, and im sure my wife and I cant do it

 

Please folks, im not trying to cry about this and throw my pacifier out of the crib im just pointing out that even when you contact the mods and ''prove'' that you are two different peeps sharing the same IP address, the way rule 5 works atm does NOT mean you can interact with each other the way you can with anybody who isnt on the same IP addy .....

 

Still, I dont want everyone to be able to have 5 alts all trading with each other, and I certainly dont want peeps being allowed to Macro thier way to the top of the ranks either. Thats not what i've been posting about

 

As I said, would be nice to have a Mod reply and tell me if im right or wrong about the points ive raised numerically.

[conavar]

As I see it, those stating "it would cause a massive influx of iron ore, etc" don't see that, 500 new players

will cause that as well, and we all want to see 500+ new players join the game.

 

IMO 500 new seperate players is differant than 500 alts, since the new players (not being able to trade with each other) would keep the market active, while 500 alts might cause the opposite, since I dont need to buy anything on my main because my alt would supply it to me.

 

Basic example:

 

Atm due to lack of nexus I have to buy all my potions, but if I had a potioner alt to make them for me (even if i only had one client running at a time) the market would suffer.

 

 

 

My biggest doudt about the whole thing is that it wouldnt players making alts because they wanted to try something differant. ie: harvers/manuers wanting a/d alts or vice versa, but just armies of alts who's sole purpose was to supply the main char

Edited October 13, 2008 by conavar

[Guest Trojan_Knight]

As I see it, those stating "it would cause a massive influx of iron ore, etc" don't see that, 500 new players

will cause that as well, and we all want to see 500+ new players join the game.

 

I would love to see 500+ new players join the game. And yes 500+ brand new players would increase the input into market. However 500+ new players with each having alt's is a completely different story. And is nothing identical to just for example 500+ new players imo.

 

~~> me <~~

[Wizzy]

All I can say, what would be the point to the game?

 

1 toon 48P 48C max emu and 40 nexus

 

another 7 human nexus and only fights with every neg perk,

 

That would be a very boring game,

[bigkav]

I Voted Yes With conditions... you people dont know what it will do because you all assume shit like "zomg will ruin economy" "i can't run alts so i don't want the rule"

 

IMO the Conditions should be multi trade with *1* yes *1* alt should be alown. i mean 1 person with 3 alts doing work for them is a bit ridiculous..

 

also you all assume it would be the end of the world... FFS the game is a DAMN BETA!! do you not know what that means ?

 

whats the point in life etc whatever if you don't try things new.. you lead a regretting and boring life.

 

People have Jobs and a LIFE... how do you pay the bills or even afford to live & eat.. so all this rambling BS "omg they will have 3 or 5 million alts doing all work for them for 24/7"

 

GET REAL PPL.

 

 

-bigk

[Miiks]

Edit: Seriously though, this is a great game with a great player-base of descent people. Keeping the multi-rule (one that is based in positive principles) well enforced has a positive effect on the players who come to abide here, in my opinion. It is one of the very difficult rules to combat against on internet games in general. Thankyou mods for working so hard. <end butt kissing> No seriously, stay positive!

Hehe good point Most of people who have broke rule 5, looks to be crying kids that are annoying in game anyways (of course not all of them) and it's better to get them banned

[BaDFliP]

no!!

[Entropy]

Basic example:

 

Atm due to lack of nexus I have to buy all my potions, but if I had a potioner alt to make them for me (even if i only had one client running at a time) the market would suffer.

But you are wrong. It is not only the nexus, it is also the fact that potioning requires raw ingredients.

So then you would need like 5 harvesting alts as well, the potioner, and your main. That's 7 chars you'd need to control. Sure, maybe that's doable for a few days or weeks, but eventually you'll burn out and you'll rather just pay someone else for the potions than go through all this shit.

 

My biggest doudt about the whole thing is that it wouldnt players making alts because they wanted to try something differant. ie: harvers/manuers wanting a/d alts or vice versa, but just armies of alts who's sole purpose was to supply the main char

Again, there is only so much the human brain can do. I don't think it is easy to have more than two chars at once, and with two cars you can't even run them too optimally. For example, you can't use one for a/d training and one for manuing, because both skills require a lot of interaction. The only skill that doesn't requre too much attention is the harvesting, but some changes can be made to that as well.

[Ermabwed]

IMO the Conditions should be multi trade with *1* yes *1* alt should be alown. i mean 1 person with 3 alts doing work for them is a bit ridiculous..

That's not my alt, that's my brother! wow, can trade with three alts on same IP now, cool, my sister started playing too: 5 alts.

Seriously, limitations won't work (i.e. easier to moderate/understand/on families etc.).

 

And Dejan, just because you have used the mix window, didn't make you consider having your alts harvest ingredients for you in a "yes" scenario?

AFK-harvesting is not hard work, you just check every 5 minutes or whenever it is convenient if your alt is still harvesting and act upon the current status of your alt...

Anyways, all this has been discussed in the first thread on this topic, next someone is going to say that alts should be forced to use the "best" place for a harvestable because it'd be more convenient to have it use one on a map with an outdoor storage....

There's nothing new on the topic, so: no.

[conavar]

Basic example:

 

Atm due to lack of nexus I have to buy all my potions, but if I had a potioner alt to make them for me (even if i only had one client running at a time) the market would suffer.

But you are wrong. It is not only the nexus, it is also the fact that potioning requires raw ingredients.

So then you would need like 5 harvesting alts as well, the potioner, and your main. That's 7 chars you'd need to control. Sure, maybe that's doable for a few days or weeks, but eventually you'll burn out and you'll rather just pay someone else for the potions than go through all this shit.

 

 

If you used your alt to only make what you need then only one is needed.

 

For example Atm I use thousands of sr's , with only a Potion level of 20 needed an alt could be leveled to make them for me in a few hours, and wouldnt take long to harv the ings for 10k etc, and gold is no problem for the vials/wine since the main supplies it

 

Same goes for he's etc

 

and would be quite easy to mix them while training a/d, just check the alts window during re-spawn time

Edited October 13, 2008 by conavar

[Jayim_Duinara]

Hello all,

 

I'm not sure I should even waste my time posting since it seems that every opinion just gets regurgitated by the other side as ridicule.

 

I play the game. My sister also plays the game. And YES, we are allowed to give each other gifts if we feel like it. When she started the game, I gave her a few odds and ends to help her get started cause she wasn't sure whether she could GET started (we have satellite internet with the average #ping being 1600-3200 ms). My sister had taken a break from the game a few months back, so when she started again, I gave her a black skirt as a welcome back present. She's given me a few things also. We help lots of people out all the time, newbies, guildies, each other. We do NOT play each others characters NOR do we use each other as an alt. We act as two separate people would. Because we ARE two separate people. The mods know about us, and because we follow the rules, we have no problems. If you are an honest person who wants to stick to the rules, you are friendly to the mods and keep in touch with them about your activities, then you will have no problem.

 

It being hard on family members is not a good reason to lift rule 5.

 

Hard on the mods is not a good reason either. Enlist some more if you need to.

 

I have had two alts in the past (one is #kill_me'd, the other I turned into a bot and gave to Labrat), and I have two alts now (both of which I have bot plans for). Just to clarify, THEY HAVE NEVER INTERACTED. I keep the rules. It is NOT easy trying to level three characters at a time. I could only do it for about two or three days before I was going insane. Two characters isn't so bad, in fact it's nice to have something to occupy you when you're sitting and harving on one. But even that can get exhausting. I couldn't not IMAGINE the brain tax on trying to run five, let alone ten.

 

People will be on 5 to 100 alts at a time is not a good reason to keep rule 5.

 

The community? Is it good at the moment? I think the answer is yes. I know a LOT of really great people in game. So does my sister. Sure there is plenty of bickering and complaining, bragging and boasting. Everyone knows who the bad guys are. And there are a TON of good guys. When I first joined the game, I saw both types of people. But a lot more of the good ones. You can only have a community when individual people talk to other people. When I'm running two characters or three, suddenly I can't talk like I would normally. My guild wonders if I'm a recluse, my sister thinks that I ignore her, and I almost missed it when radu popped up right next to me and wanted to trade. (Don't upset the bossman. ).

 

People being on a lot of alts at a time would not be capable of interacting with others the way a person with one character would be.

 

Would lifting the fifth rule make everyone grab some alts? I have NO idea. It drives me crazy. (can't wait till they're botified)

 

I don't think any of these are good reasons. I have a question. What would be the point of lifting the rule? I haven't heard a single good one. From what I see, things are working really well the way they are ingame. If you want it lifted because you can level easily, why play the game? A single player game is concerned with winning. There is no way to 'win' in EL and there is not supposed to be. An RPG is not about the end, it's about the journey. If you want something you can 'win' fast and easy, go play Kotor II or some single player RPG.

 

Is this to let people level easier? There are other ways to do that.

If it's not, then why are we considering it?

 

If you say it's because the game is tedious, that is your own fault. You've left the 'roleplaying' out of "Role Playing Game". Take a break from leveling and go play (as in "the kids are outside playing") with some friends. We've got a fantastic setting provided for us. Make up a fantastic story to play in it.

 

Enough ranting, I'm getting cranky.

The_Saxman (Jayim_Duinara)

Member of TAG

[Troger]

This is definatly no.

Alts would mean more crowed at storages, more crowd at the best harvesting places, this would mean more lagg, more lagg means less fun.

 

If (i hope i wont happen) it will come the yes side winner, i would like to see the restrictions like:

- finite resources (with random respawning places)

- No npcs buying raw materials and final products

- illegal afk

 

I hope multi rule removing will never ocure.

[robotbob]

[...]

You can only have a community when individual people talk to other people. When I'm running two characters or three, suddenly I can't talk like I would normally.

[...]

People being on a lot of alts at a time would not be capable of interacting with others the way a person with one character would be.

 

I just want to address the question of player interaction.

 

Currently players are allowed alts if the do not interact, so if this is the problem, then it already exists in-game.

Therefore, no one should have any alts or be allowed to go AFK in this game at all, if doing

so would prevent them from replying in a timely fashion. I presume some PK server players could voice

their opinions on this, if having multi charas limit player interactions on a social level in anyway.

 

I also see this unbalanced statement like, "need to interact knowing the 'real' human running what chara" followed with

"its a roleplay game" should it matter who is behind a character since a jerk tends to be a jerk regardless of account?

Granted I hate griefers and would not want to see this as a way for griefers to flourish.

----------------------------------------

 

So some of the main nays reasons are:

• Human interaction will diminish
  
• Makes game too easy
  
• Ruined economy
  

Do see Trojan_Knight and conavar points, it would forever change the server population to mean:

 

new player * allowed account = ?, so every new player may mean 3+ accounts.

So we could end up with a 3k max slots server with 1k people on it.

 

Alts would mean more crowed at storages, more crowd at the best harvesting places, this would mean more lagg, more lagg means less fun.

 

But this is the same result as a large influx of new people. Are we afraid of the game expanding?

[dawench]

I voted NO

 

I know harving can be boring because there are things that can take forever to harv. If it was all easy as lilacs then we'd all be rich and have the best armour and the best weapons and the best of everything. Where would the challenge be? Why would anyone need multiple alts anyway? The only sense I can make of it is people wanting the world of EL to be handed to them on a silver platter. Work for it like the rest of us.

 

As to the ppl who have multiple ppl playing from the same IP. I understand and sympathize. Perhaps what is needed is not an end to rule #5 but a way for the HONEST people to be able to interact with each other. ie after a certain period of time when it is shown irrefutably that there are 2 ppl with 2 different characters then maybe a way should be found for those characters to interact.

[DinkyDee]

I say yes-

 

BUT under the conditions that they trade evenly, no muling, and no multi-combat. ^^

 

"No muling" gets pretty subjective, though. I don't really want a rule where it's hard to know whether you're following it or not.

[DinkyDee]

All I can say, what would be the point to the game?

 

1 toon 48P 48C max emu and 40 nexus

 

another 7 human nexus and only fights with every neg perk,

 

That would be a very boring game,

 

Exactly - it would make char building too much of a no brainer. You'd just have your fighter and your mixer, and may be one or two more harving drones.