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Entropy

Temporary class system

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imho its difficult to make such changes to the game

There are many high level players atm, making a perk that will reduce their a/d capability or increase it, it will not work

 

As i see it

1. 60-115s a/d wont mess with the perk cause of their training built

2. 120s+ a/d will only use it for gc farming (yeti/achims/dragons) that is if they have the gc for hydro-buying the perk. But eventually they will get their gc back

3. Mages on the other hand need more pps than a/d players because for a built os 48 reason + 48 will + a decent emu + 10or 20 pps for perk = too many pps , i guess most of them will avoid it just for a MI 50% bypass

4. I don t even mention pk, cause after a weekend of testing the new perk surely most players won t pk again ( its already hard to fight some top a/d and it will be even more difficult with the perk)

 

My opinion MI shouldn t have been implemented in the first place, but at this game, pk is built around it ,

also for mage class u simply need range and defence spells (ie fireball, fog spell etc), why should the mage get next to the pker just to cast 1 spell , its too difficult and too risky.

 

Atm i don t have an opinion of how u can make classes, since there are too many players already with high levels at a/d and magic

 

Xarondas

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but exactly this sentence in the above quoted post is why a good amount of Pkers doesn't even want to post here anymore.you will never get a decent "statistic" if people think like that.

If people can't read and follow some very simple rules, then I do not want them to post here, and I do not want to hear what they have to say. Their oppinion is meaningless to me.

 

and what's wrong with me trying to get them to post? i mean you are asking for comments so they should have no fear of posting what they think here. at least thats my oppinion, if it's wrong ok.. then i'm gonna shut up.

There is nothing wrong to get them to post, but it is wrong annoying for you to say: "Everyone else thinks like me, but they are afraid to post it".

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I got thinking a little

 

What if the by-pass to MI could be a perk, and modled after the mirror skin perk

 

7pp 10-25% chance to penetrated magic immunity

 

Could also be a cloak Cape of the Mage monster drop with a rarity simular to mirror cloak so a value of 5-10K gc's?

 

Just a thought

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I got thinking a little

 

What if the by-pass to MI could be a perk, and modled after the mirror skin perk

 

7pp 10-25% chance to penetrated magic immunity

 

Could also be a cloak Cape of the Mage monster drop with a rarity simular to mirror cloak so a value of 5-10K gc's?

 

Just a thought

"omg this sux this will just make high lvl ppl have an advantage again" is the first comment you will hear.

 

and to ent: it was not my intention to sound like "everyone thinks like me"... i was just trying to say that some people share my oppinion, but are scared to post.

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Tempest: If the people that share your oppinion can not post something folliwing the rules, they do not exist for me, their oppinion is meaningless, and I do not want to hear it, nor do I care about it.

As for the previous suggestion, there are many ways to make it work, as there were ways for the original post idea to make it work, such as tweaking the classes a little, and so on.

But because of the responses I got ("Omfg [...] ruin [...] quit [...]" instead of "Hmm, how about we tweak this and that [...]"), it will be a long time until I even THINK of anything new regarding PKing, let alone implementing it.

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I got thinking a little

 

What if the by-pass to MI could be a perk, and modled after the mirror skin perk

 

7pp 10-25% chance to penetrated magic immunity

 

Could also be a cloak Cape of the Mage monster drop with a rarity simular to mirror cloak so a value of 5-10K gc's?

 

Just a thought

 

 

The cloak idea is interesting and easy to implment. If the cloak was made to break about the same rate as training arrows then it would not make the high lvl PKers much stronger because you couldn't really use it in melee combat and would be the sort of thing the pure mage builds use at range. Since it breaks so easily it could be countered by a fast-moving fighter by engaging and breaking it.

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Just a weird idea ... 6 cloaks and 6 nexuses - one for each of 6 classes. The effect of a cloak dependant on the nexus multiplier (eg. 2%). Increasing one skill, decreasing two others.

 

So Barbarian Cloak with Human nexus 6 would raise attack +12% and reduce defense and summoning (for instance) by 12%

Mage cloak with 2 Magic nexus would raise effect of spells by 4% and reduce attack and defense by 4% (and give 4% chance to break through MI)

etc.

 

Cloaks easy to break and and being rare invasion drops ...

 

I believe that would be easy to implement

 

Ok, I'll better shut up ... :P

 

Edit: MI thing

Edited by Cruella

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How about the higher a/d, the less % bonus you get? Gives lower people more reason to PK, dosn't make the higher level players too powerful. ~130 a/d = 156 attack, and even higher def, depending on what you take, +godblessing, and were talking ~40 attack/def bonus here, thats far to poweful, even for 3/4 110-120 players, would fine it hard to hit them, even if the player had ICD.

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How about the higher a/d, the less % bonus you get? Gives lower people more reason to PK, dosn't make the higher level players too powerful. ~130 a/d = 156 attack, and even higher def, depending on what you take, +godblessing, and were talking ~40 attack/def bonus here, thats far to poweful, even for 3/4 110-120 players, would fine it hard to hit them, even if the player had ICD.

 

That would displease the "omfg, n00bs will get me, a 10 years player" crowd.

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But because of the responses I got ("Omfg [...] ruin [...] quit [...]" instead of "Hmm, how about we tweak this and that [...]"), it will be a long time until I even THINK of anything new regarding PKing, let alone implementing it.

 

I can totally agree with you being pissed with peoples attitude of "omg etc" before the thread had even got off the ground.

But looking at the thread alot more people are in favour of some sort of class idea (after it has been discussed and tweaked to find a even balance).So personally I hope you rethink your decision to drop this idea .

 

 

@ Temp <3

 

If players post contructive comments, even if those comments are against the idea then they have nothing to fear, have they ? Its when ppl lose the plot and go off on one and all they bring to the table is " omg teh fooking idea sux" that people get pissed with .

In principle I think the class idea is good, but I also think the % first mentioned are to high, myself personally I would rather stand up and say " Nope sorry Radu maybe thats to much...how about this idea" instead of " its sux i quit".

 

We are given the opportuntiy to debate things.. so players should use it if they disagree .. to me its like not voting then moaning about the goverment .

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But because of the responses I got ("Omfg [...] ruin [...] quit [...]" instead of "Hmm, how about we tweak this and that [...]"), it will be a long time until I even THINK of anything new regarding PKing, let alone implementing it.
So does that perchance imply the possibility for adding things to some of the other skills? Harvesting could use something new; like a new high level (higher than dung) harvestable with a large demand... :)

 

Or even the old "finding stuff people drop in the outhouses" thing... :P

 

 

 

What, me having a personal agenda, never! :P

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How about the higher a/d, the less % bonus you get? Gives lower people more reason to PK, dosn't make the higher level players too powerful. ~130 a/d = 156 attack, and even higher def, depending on what you take, +godblessing, and were talking ~40 attack/def bonus here, thats far to poweful, even for 3/4 110-120 players, would fine it hard to hit them, even if the player had ICD.

 

That would displease the "omfg, n00bs will get me, a 10 years player" crowd.

 

 

To be honest, there are many ways in game to get " the 10 years player crowd" that has been impletemented over the last 6 months or so.

 

Magic being one, full rationailty with a high magic level pawns.

 

Engineering / summoning has also been changed With the right stratagey would also pawnz0r people that where high levels.

 

Ranging I havent trainned much, and really cant comment on its potential, but I would say camo cloak, night visor and 2 ragers with pk arrows could pawn someone a little distracted very quickly.

 

These new "classes" or attribute builds are all ready in game!

 

People havent complained much about them, because few people are not using the full potential of these other skills. Everyone still seems to be stuck in the idea to pk you need high pc some mana, emps, and minimum steel plate armor, col and a great sword. There is more then one way to skin a cat, and they already exist in game.

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I think it's normal many people disagree with new ideas, so there will always be an impression that many people bitch about the changes.

Therefore I think such posts should be started as a poll "I like/I dislike the suggestions", that would give a more fair view to developers how many people are actually against. This is not perfect since many people who never fight PK may vote too, but still better than nothing.

 

Personally I've liked the class shifter idea, best suggestion involving changes to MI so far I think.

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I think it's normal many people disagree with new ideas, so there will always be an impression that many people bitch about the changes.

Therefore I think such posts should be started as a poll "I like/I dislike the suggestions", that would give a more fair view to developers how many people are actually against. This is not perfect since many people who never fight PK may vote too, but still better than nothing.

 

Actually, we originally had polls for new ideas, but many people voted with their feet, without even bothering to fully understand the system. So we decided to have a discussion rather than voting, because then you would have to actually say why you don't like an idea, and there can be some conversation based on it.

In this particular case, I did't think that it is necessary to change how things are, and since it would take a lot of effort to implement this new system, I didn't really care that much about it to start a new poll, or even to argue why it would be a cool thing to have.

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I posted a somewhat 'omgpost', at least I think I did.

 

But Radu, its only a handfull of people posting such posts. How many in this thread... it must be shit compared to the community.

 

Try to think about the rest. If you dont like my and others posts, just ignore. Problably a hard thing to do, but I think the best thing to do though.

 

Or, if you'd like an impression on what people think about an idea, maybe try to have a discussion ingame, if you got time for it. Announce a channel, and propose an idea. (I think a much larger amount of players is reached ingame, than here on the forums, and here its mostly the same always.) Also I think getting a idea of what players think about it, is pretty quickly done ingame.

 

I dunno really.. just trying to help :P .

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Where the fuck did you come with that 95% number?
As you well know, 95% of all statistics are made up. I think that number climbs to 100% in on-line forums.

 

:whistle:

 

 

Actually, thats only true in 82% of cases, and my 96% of my posts do NOT follow this trend.

 

On-topic: If (and I sure hope it is) this idea is implemented, would there be class specific items? (Barbarian's sword, Mages' Robes, etc.)

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you would have to actually say why you don't like an idea, and there can be some conversation based on it.

With people afraid to voice their opinion for fear of potentially being banned (whether that fear is justified or not), you will never be able to have an open discussion on any topic.

 

Or, if you'd like an impression on what people think about an idea, maybe try to have a discussion ingame, if you got time for it. Announce a channel, and propose an idea. (I think a much larger amount of players is reached ingame, than here on the forums, and here its mostly the same always.) Also I think getting a idea of what players think about it, is pretty quickly done ingame.

See above. Whether the discussion happens in game or in the forums, while players are afraid of being banned for voicing their opinions it will be impossible to have an open discussion.

 

Tempest: If the people that share your oppinion can not post something folliwing the rules, they do not exist for me, their oppinion is meaningless, and I do not want to hear it, nor do I care about it.

Who is saying that they could not post something following the rules? I don't recall reading anything along those lines. Instead what I read indicated that their fear is of getting banned for simply voicing their opinion.

 

The short of it, right or wrong, is that there are players that are afraid to voice their opinion (in game or in forum) for fear of being banned for having done so. As long as this is the state of affairs, there will never be an open and honest discussion regarding anything in the game.

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Actually, we originally had polls for new ideas, but many people voted with their feet, without even bothering to fully understand the system. So we decided to have a discussion rather than voting, because then you would have to actually say why you don't like an idea, and there can be some conversation based on it.

In this particular case, I did't think that it is necessary to change how things are, and since it would take a lot of effort to implement this new system, I didn't really care that much about it to start a new poll, or even to argue why it would be a cool thing to have.

 

well now you have 6 pages of posts, perhaps its time to combine them with an ad-hoc poll and count the for/against posts in here..assuming those who make suggestions for tweaks/alterations can be considered as FOR votes.

 

Seems only fair to me, that way anyone who wants to post *but is afraid* will have the chance to do so NOW or they wont get their say.

 

Edit: Blackthorne posted just before me so didnt read it til after i hit post..now though I must say I disagree there..I have posted my opinion on suggestions and made new ones regularly over the years without being banned, even had radu say some of my ideas are utter bullshit, yet I have not found it even remotely difficult following the forum rules and remain unbanned regardless..why is it others can not do this also? I think this "fear factor" is just a load of hype tbh, given to mask the truth that theres NOT as many would be against this idea as might originally seem to be from the intimation that the "silent masses who disagree" wont post. Sorry but how is ANYONE meant to base a discussion thread styled opinion poll on "people who wont speak up"? And why the HELL should THOSE people even HAVE any choice in the matter of what does/does not go into implementation then?

Edited by Pyewacket

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well now you have 6 pages of posts, perhaps its time to combine them with an ad-hoc poll and count the for/against posts in here..assuming those who make suggestions for tweaks/alterations can be considered as FOR votes.

 

No. I already decided not to implement this system. This is not the first time I post about an idea, people are "omfg", then later on they come to me asking to implement the idea (see the caps threads, the summoning stones thread, and so on). By now people should already know not to do that, but they do it every single time, and for me it is far easier to be complacent with the game and not do anything new. Really, it's not like my hands are burning to implement new features in the game. It just happens that it is summer right now, the weather is good most of the time, and I enjoy being outside, away from the computer.

 

Seems only fair to me, that way anyone who wants to post *but is afraid* will have the chance to do so NOW or they wont get their say.

It does not seem fair to me at all. I will reiterate my previous position: "I do not give a fuck about people who can not follow some simple rules".

 

The short of it, right or wrong, is that there are players that are afraid to voice their opinion (in game or in forum) for fear of being banned for having done so. As long as this is the state of affairs, there will never be an open and honest discussion regarding anything in the game.

 

Forum rule 5: "Back up your statements / claims. [...]"

Please back up that statement by providing a list of at least 5 player names who are afraid to voice their oppinions. You have 24 hours to do so.

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Forum rule 5: "Back up your statements / claims. [...]"

Please back up that statement by providing a list of at least 5 player names who are afraid to voice their oppinions. You have 24 hours to do so.

The statements in this forum already back up my claim. There has already been at least one person that has posted here indicating that they had refrained from forum posting for this very reason. I myself have refrained from it in the past for that reason. I simply don't care enough about the game any longer to worry whether or not you'll ban me for telling you the truth. I'm sorry, but I will not out people by name that do not wish to be revealed, that is for them to decide. If you feel there is insufficient evidence, do what you feel you must.

Edited by jamincollins

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Forum rule 5: "Back up your statements / claims. [...]"

Please back up that statement by providing a list of at least 5 player names who are afraid to voice their oppinions. You have 24 hours to do so.

 

That can't be done Radu, if they are afraid to post wouldn't they mind seeing their names here too ?

Edited by Jaclaw

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The short of it, right or wrong, is that there are players that are afraid to voice their opinion (in game or in forum) for fear of being banned for having done so. As long as this is the state of affairs, there will never be an open and honest discussion regarding anything in the game.

 

If the player is not posting due to a fear of being banned from the forums, it does not make any difference if he is banned or not (in both cases we do not know his/her opinion) :D I find it really childish. Banned? What a big deal if you are hiding under your bed and not posting anyway?

 

Forum rule 5: "Back up your statements / claims. [...]"

Please back up that statement by providing a list of at least 5 player names who are afraid to voice their oppinions. You have 24 hours to do so.

 

Awww, this is bad .... I'd rather say ..... "Those who are afraid to post, show up here just to confirm, I promise I won't ban you for that"

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That can't be done Radu, if they are afraid to post wouldn't they mind seeing their names here too ?

 

That is EXACTLY the point!

Since such a statement can not be backed up, then it should not be used (rule 5). Especially that I find that insulting, because it sort of translates into: "You are a motherfucking tyrant and good, honest players are afraid to post here because of you". Then when I ask which players, the answer is: "Umm, can't give their names because then you'd ban them".

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