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Banedon

PK server List of Criminals

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I can easily compare the main to the PK. It's the same game. Same principles, there are no reasons why the way we enforce community rules on the main will not work here.

 

Perhaps you're simply just trying to keep yourself in power, I don't know. I'm only trying to help you, because reading this eliminated any chance of me playing on the server, and I'm sure it affected many others the same way.

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I can easily compare the main to the PK. It's the same game. Same principles, there are no reasons why the way we enforce community rules on the main will not work here.

 

Perhaps you're simply just trying to keep yourself in power, I don't know. I'm only trying to help you, because reading this eliminated any chance of me playing on the server, and I'm sure it affected many others the same way.

Eternity everyone has heard that so much.

 

I won't play because this or I won't play becasue that. I'm not playing until he changes this back. I'm not playing until this happens.

 

YOu would not believe the amount of the posts on main server or here all with the same broken record. YOu never were going to play or you would have. To use this is the reason I am not playing is just your way of thinking you can make people bend to your way.

 

HMMM isn't that exactly what you are trying to say I am doing. Well I guess if you look back through. Everyone who plays on the PK server is pro this and everyone who doesn't play on the pk server is against this.

 

 

LOL this is just so funny

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I can easily compare the main to the PK. It's the same game. Same principles, there are no reasons why the way we enforce community rules on the main will not work here.

 

Perhaps you're simply just trying to keep yourself in power, I don't know. I'm only trying to help you, because reading this eliminated any chance of me playing on the server, and I'm sure it affected many others the same way.

 

 

You are very wrong. Pay $5 and come over here and see. This community is entirely different and until you experience it, you can't say what will or will not work.

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What I SAID is that you shouldn't have this group of players that think they're freaking kings enforce whatever rules they see fit, and then place bullshit punishments for doing whatt he sevrer was intended for: PKING. Don't you remember the name of your own damn server?
Wow, it's like you didn't even read what other's have posted. Those with power (I exclude myself since I don't PK) are only enforcing the rules the community requested, against a person the community complained about, with punishments that the community requested (remember Lone said he wanted to do less but people requested more).

 

How are community rules enforced on the main server? ... We ostracize them, and put them on our PK lists.
In other words, exactly what was done on the PK server, but WITHOUT any clear person or group to appeal to if anyone feels the action is unjust, and without any clear limits or duration of punishment. Actually sounds less organized or fair than what we're trying on the PK server.

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I can easily compare the main to the PK. It's the same game. Same principles, there are no reasons why the way we enforce community rules on the main will not work here.

 

Perhaps you're simply just trying to keep yourself in power, I don't know. I'm only trying to help you, because reading this eliminated any chance of me playing on the server, and I'm sure it affected many others the same way.

Eternity everyone has heard that so much.

 

I won't play because this or I won't play becasue that. I'm not playing until he changes this back. I'm not playing until this happens.

 

YOu would not believe the amount of the posts on main server or here all with the same broken record. YOu never were going to play or you would have. To use this is the reason I am not playing is just your way of thinking you can make people bend to your way.

 

HMMM isn't that exactly what you are trying to say I am doing. Well I guess if you look back through. Everyone who plays on the PK server is pro this and everyone who doesn't play on the pk server is against this.

 

 

LOL this is just so funny

 

Are you dumb, or do you just act like it?

Here's a word of advice, don't make completely unbased, illogical attacks when you don't know what you're talking about.

Perhaps I haven't been able to pay for a damn account? Perhaps I only recently acquired the means, or only recently felt like playing?

Well fuck you then, run your damn server like this, I only hope that when it dies because of idiotic ideas like this that you don't whine that no one wanted to play.

 

I'm done with this debate. Have fun, ruining your own server. :lipssealed:

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Keep in mind that us on the PK server are perfectly fine with the arrangement and there is no saying it can't be changed to suit. Also note that recently there have been less than twenty players logged in at once and some of these are alts. Most situations (which nearly never happen) get discussed and satisified without any SWAT teams or hired assasins. We chat it out.

 

Someday we all hope there will be plenty more players and the situations may change where a little enforcement may help to keep the mayhem down. Probably not very often. Currently we are all having a great time and when someone gets PK'ed it's all in fun with no hard feelings.

 

By the way, I think some readers may have taken Banedon's original post a little bit too seriously. It was definitley written for those of us who play with him, and he does tend to have a flair for the dramatic! The banter in channels follows that style fairly often...

I can state unequivocally he is no king :lipssealed:

"Who's afraid of the big bad wolfe, the big bad wolfe, the big bad wolfe!!!" :confused:

Edited by Piggy

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Keep in mind that us on the PK server are perfectly fine with the arrangement and there is no saying it can't be changed to suit. Also note that recently there have been less than twenty players logged in at once and some of these are alts. Most situations (which nearly never happen) get discussed and satisified without any SWAT teams or hired assasins. We chat it out.

 

Someday we all hope there will be plenty more players and the situations may change where a little enforcement may help to keep the mayhem down. Probably not very often. Currently we are all having a great time and when someone gets PK'ed it's all in fun with no hard feelings.

 

By the way, I think some readers may have taken Banedon's original post a little bit too seriously. It was definitley written for those of us who play with him, and he does tend to have a flair for the dramatic! The banter in channels follows that style fairly often...

I can state unequivocally he is no king :lipssealed: just another fathead!

 

"Who's afraid of the big bad wolfe, the big bad wolfe, the big bad wolfe!!!" :confused:

 

LMAO piggy ty I needed the big laugh. I will huff and puff and blow your house in.

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this is the most rediculous dumb shit i've ever hard, i think ill logg on just to pk someone during an invasion and say fu to all of you.

 

like labby said, who died and made yall king? this has given me a laugh and has brought my respect for all four of you to the floor, gratz.

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Well guys i went to bed got up and read the rest of this crap

 

thank god i dont play the main server any more

 

Have you guys nothing better to do ? are you really that sad?

 

I dont really give a shit what you all think

 

Have you notice This is not about Bugspray anymore its PK server verses main

 

I do agree with Spleenfeeders statement well with crap taken out and the truth put in maybe

 

a collection of judge jury executioners who seem to without any real accountablility pass judgement on "outlaws" like they run the place.

 

(all of the players who seem to without any real accountablility pass judgement on "outlaws" like they play the game) this is how it really is

 

 

Guys this is just a game and really i dont give a fuck about all you sad people that want you use this as a chance to spout off your mouth

all i say thank god you dont play the PK server i guess i didnt realise how lucky we are.

 

WE who play this game Have the right to work as a community

WE have a right to PK who we want to

WE have the right to trade with who ever we want to

We also have the right to take In game action against those who Threaten That (come on guys get whith the roll play)

 

At the end of the day you are missing the point The invasions would not work if we PKed each other during them, Then it would only be an Invasion for the stronger players

 

If the PK server was busyer then there would not be a need for community rules or Staged Invasions It would be guilds fighting against guilds controlling different resoreses. and alot of fun but untill that time We who play are enjoying the friendly atmosphere (Yes will do still PK each other when we are not having invasions)

 

this is the most rediculous dumb shit i've ever hard, i think ill logg on just to pk someone during an invasion and say fu to all of you.

 

like labby said, who died and made yall king? this has given me a laugh and has brought my respect for all four of you to the floor, gratz.

 

Proslayer feeling left out or something i dont even know who you are but man you can keep the respect obviously you thought hard and long before you came up with this statment lmao

 

 

Have you guys noticed not one person that plays the PK server has a problem with this

 

 

and to answer your question the people who play i guess made us Kings (kings your word not mine)

 

If we gave up with the PK server like alot of you did then it would be empty know one playing at all

we decided to stay and make it work and at the moment having alot of fun doing it.

 

If it were not for MrHides invasions and the community spirit then the server would be dead

So we will protect it and keep it going and the only people that have a problem with this are those of you that dont play

 

As it gets busyer then MrHide will not be needed as much so this rule would not need to exist

 

Then i can become a KING

KING of my own guild and we will pk any other guild/player we see

Control any reasorce

Dictate who lives and who dies

 

Sorry more roll play :)

 

Is this not the way it was surposed to be

 

Untill such time we will just keep things going the way they are over here

 

So to recap

 

The 4 names did not pick themselves they were picked by those who play

and its those who play that can and will enforce what ever they want

and that is not to PK during the Invasions

 

If you dont like it then get aload of your buddies join the pk server and make your own community Then we can be godz (PK) godz and PK each others asses no need for invasions no need for the no PK rule.

It would be how it was ment to be

 

The only thing i believe should be enforced then would be no mod slagging, no extream language, no racist comments but that only comes with maturity i guess

 

Guys wake up

 

God Handyman out Thor

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I needn't even reply.
So you post a reply to say you needn't post a reply. :) Makes about as much sense as some of the other posts you've made here. :o

 

If it were not for MrHides invasions and the community spirit then the server would be dead. So we will protect it and keep it going and the only people that have a problem with this are those of you that dont play.
This is a point not yet made that I wish to underscore.

 

The PK server had been on a steady decline for weeks. It wasn't until after several weeks of faithful work by MrHide that things began to turn around. And now it's on a steady increase. The population is up, people are having fun, the PKers are killing each other, and there's a feel there that I imagine is much like the main server had in the early days of EL.

 

Those who actually play on the PK server are in agreement with the direction it is going. I simply do not understand why the self-appointed critics of the server feel they know what's better than those who play on it. Given the chance, you would impose your will on how the server should be (as stated in this very thread) over the objections of all who play there. I suspect many see the hypocrisy demonstrated.

 

But then again, it's sadly typical of humanity. You hate what you cannot understand. You despise what you cannot experience. And you throw insults and wish evil upon those who enjoy what you can only gaze at from afar.

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[..]

 

Then i can become a KING

KING of my own guild and we will pk any other guild/player we see

Control any reasorce

Dictate who lives and who dies

 

Sorry more roll play :o

 

[...]

 

God Handyman out Thor

 

 

But then again, it's sadly typical of humanity. You hate what you cannot understand. You despise what you cannot experience. And you throw insults and wish evil upon those who enjoy what you can only gaze at from afar.

 

I just see 2 members of the chosen 4 with a touch of:

 

Megalomania is commonly understood as a mental behavior characterized by an excessive desire

for power and glory and by illusory feelings of omnipotence. The latter can be expressed in

the psychopathological form of delusions of grandeur.

 

Good Luck with the server. If I get an account, Ill make sure to be female and say Hugz 8~) Bkc56, handy. So I stay off

the list :)

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lol @ this thread.

 

stfu and go and pk them if you have issue with the way they run the server. Yes, they can run it how they want at the moment as they are the strongest, got a problem? Go and train to kill them for once instead of spamming up these forums with completely irrelevent drivel (looking at YOU here labrat, i mean jesus, if you spent half as much time training as you do chatting shit you'd have reached the cap by now)

 

To me this system seems much better, I'd rather have community (more or less) appointed "mods" (for lack of a better word, or maybe "sheriffs"? ^^) than some of the people who get power on and run the main server.

 

Hmm, I might get myself a PK server account now, if I can be bothered :)

Edited by Lorlen

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lol @ this thread.

 

stfu and go and pk them if you have issue with the way they run the server. Yes, they can run it how they want at the moment as they are the strongest, got a problem? Go and train to kill them for once instead of spamming up these forums with completely irrelevent drivel (looking at YOU here labrat, i mean jesus, if you spent half as much time training as you do chatting shit you'd have reached the cap by now)

 

To me this system seems much better, I'd rather have community (more or less) appointed "mods" (for lack of a better word, or maybe "sheriffs"? ^^) than some of the people who get power on and run the main server.

 

Hmm, I might get myself a PK server account now, if I can be bothered :)

Lol you're too pro for me with your biting comments.

 

I can't be bothered to reread this lot but the pro PK server bunch are contradicting themselves constantly.

 

To summarise:

Who came up with the 4 names?

"I did"

"not me I don't even want to be on the list"

"the community did"

"maybe a poll should have been held - but we would probably have decided on these four anyway"

"wtf has it got to do with you - you don't even play"

 

You kinda completely missed the point of my post - there are no safeguards there to stop the bunch of tin badge sheriffs from singling out a player and deciding that they are inappropriate material for the PK server.

 

What do you think the reaction would be if I logged in - a warm welcome with open arms or quiet commandments from on high to PK me on sight?

 

I know which one I would bet on. Anyone got a map of the Underworld?

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Good morning

 

i did promise those on the PK server that i would sit on my hands and not post again... but after reading what went on while i was asleep last night..... i feel the need to.

 

i'm probably one of the weakest fighers on that server as i am a supplier and tend to spend much more time making things than i do fighting. So every so often (more often recently... thankfully) we have an invasion. i've taken part in about 6 so far and they have been amazing fun.

 

And the biggest part of that fun is the chatter and joking and the warnings (as to what monster/animal is where etc) and the advice that continously flows in @1. (this would cover someone's worry about a newbie not knowing what was going on... we all know... though the channel chatter)

 

That channel is rarely if ever silent...... there is always chatter there. But during the invasions it comes alive.

 

Now the point of my post today is. Because i'm a lowly supplier..... do i feel 'threatened' by the new 'leaders' of the server?

 

Heck no.

 

i do however feel protected yes.... assisted yes.... helped yes... and honored to be able to call these people my friends. (and that includes all on PK server.. not just the 'bosses')

 

So please... all these negative posters..... please come and spend some time on the server if you wish........ i think you will be amazed as to what it's like.

 

But even if you chose not too..... please don't dismiss something that you haven't experienced as 'wrong'. i for one am grateful that some there have 'stepped up to the plate' and accepted the role of 'leaders/helpers'.

 

Thanks all.... and i'm really sorry that this simple posting string has ended up playing out the way it has.

 

spirited :)

 

Edited to add this bit.

 

If you do return to the PK server Labrat... you will be welcomed :) So you won't be needing an underworld map. But if you really want one i'm sure i have one for sale for 100k gc :o

 

(seriously though. any who return are happily welcomed back. everyone is entitled to their opinions. i just wish sometimes that people would realise that others are entitled to them too. :)..)

Edited by spirited

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lol @ this thread.

 

stfu and go and pk them if you have issue with the way they run the server. Yes, they can run it how they want at the moment as they are the strongest, got a problem? Go and train to kill them for once instead of spamming up these forums with completely irrelevent drivel (looking at YOU here labrat, i mean jesus, if you spent half as much time training as you do chatting shit you'd have reached the cap by now)

 

To me this system seems much better, I'd rather have community (more or less) appointed "mods" (for lack of a better word, or maybe "sheriffs"? ^^) than some of the people who get power on and run the main server.

 

Hmm, I might get myself a PK server account now, if I can be bothered :)

Lol you're too pro for me with your biting comments.

 

I can't be bothered to reread this lot but the pro PK server bunch are contradicting themselves constantly.

 

To summarise:

Who came up with the 4 names?

"I did"

"not me I don't even want to be on the list"

"the community did"

"maybe a poll should have been held - but we would probably have decided on these four anyway"

"wtf has it got to do with you - you don't even play"

 

You kinda completely missed the point of my post - there are no safeguards there to stop the bunch of tin badge sheriffs from singling out a player and deciding that they are inappropriate material for the PK server.

 

What do you think the reaction would be if I logged in - a warm welcome with open arms or quiet commandments from on high to PK me on sight?

 

I know which one I would bet on. Anyone got a map of the Underworld?

 

Wait, what? I think you mistook me for someone who gives a shit :/

 

I think you missed my point as well, why waste so much time here dicussing something that is ultimately irelevent? In the end people on the PK server will decide how, when and why they do things, no amount of chat here will change that.

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But they want new people to come right?

 

And the problem they have is anyone new reading this and considering going there will see nothing but a cliquey group of players deciding how the place should run and who ultimately have some power to make their lives in the game hard if they dare to disagree.

 

That is my concern. And again, I am entitled to express it without being shouted down by those who have NO control over how I think or act.

 

S.

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Lol you're too pro for me with your biting comments.
Wait, what? I think you mistook me for someone who gives a shit :/

 

I think you missed my point as well, why waste so much time here dicussing something that is ultimately irelevent? In the end people on the PK server will decide how, when and why they do things, no amount of chat here will change that.

ok pro spelling errors aside (there are plenty of browser plugins that spellcheck as you type so you can spout your pro drivel with some semblance of spelling accuracy).

 

From the fact you responded to me in particular I am guessing I have upset you at some point. Maybe you saw me teh nekkid or something who knows - I have that effect. Don't worry your body will grow as you mature.

 

The simple fact that I am not the only person to take umbrage with the original post and its implications shows that my opinion is not irrelevant and if anything shows that I care about the server even if I no longer play on it.

 

I could have ignored the whole PK server stuff completely but as soon as I read post #1 alarm bells began to ring.

 

If I was to try the same thing on the main server - or even test for that matter (to quote The Lawnmower Man - "I am God here") and tell everyone that what I say goes I would be laughed off the server. Yet 3 people decide they will do exactly that (the 4th was nominated by the other 3) and tell the world that they are doing that and nobody is expected to bat an eyelid.

 

Due to this thread y'all have inspired me. I am now the leader of Cuba. I just need the IP address of Lorlen - oh wait yay I have it - I just need to check my web server IP logs - and the key to a nuclear missile bunker. Nobody can stop me - I am self appointed just like all the best Dictators. If you disagree I will get Big Dave to PK you for a week and I have WMD. Now who is with me? Everyone? Good.

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It's funny to see how some people completely lose their panties over a simple, text-based debate over a pixelated world and community.

 

Personally, I'm against oligarchy-based governments all together. They breed discontent and fascism. Who keeps the controllers in check? What about the people who oppose them, is voicing that opinion illegal? What's to stop an elitist group in power from turning from supremely-benevolent and friendly to downright malicious on a simple whim?

 

That being said, this is a virtual community.

 

I think referring to yourself as a 'King' is an accurate measure of your narcissism. Enforcing your rules upon others hardly encourages a friendly atmosphere, and I agree with LabRat in the regard these people have no right whatsoever to call themselves above others. Moreover, this could be considered a form of tyrannical government, especially if this extremely silly idea about 'gold fines' comes into place.

 

Just out of curiosity, tell me how this hypothetical scenario will go out:

 

Person (A) becomes a PK Outlaw (PKO :) ), s/he goes to help out with an invasion, where s/he encounters one of the self-proclaimed protectors.

 

Will Person (A) be PKed? Will people who interact with person (A) be shunned? I'm very curious.

 

And in the people against' defence, this does look an awfully like four self-inflated people who are lost to obscurity in RL/EL Main, and have to become ebul dictators on PK server.

 

PS: Btw I do have a PK server account, I logged on last night, but ultimately I quit, why?

 

-Atrocious language

-Low levels

-General attitude of the community

 

These things may have changed now, however the people arguing for this idea really should take into account how much of an impact this has on people looking to play on the PK server.

 

I can sympathise with them, too, though. There are rarely >30 people in-game whenever I'm on (even less so a few weeks back), I'll guess this thread is an attempt to ratify people's earlier fears (and reasons for quitting the server)? If so, I must say it's gone horribly wrong...

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But they want new people to come right?

There wont be new players there if its not free( trial period for a week or something like that or 1st account free) and u got no choice between servers at log in screen :)

Was suggested 1k times already, we began to suggest it when there was still often 40-50 accounts online, since we saw ppl leaving coz of too small player base.

 

Till those 2 changes get implemented those 4 "kings" can even ask(force) pk server players( all other 6 of them :)) to lick their feet and no1 will care :o

 

mp

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Upset me? Do you seriously think that there is anyone who has so little to worry about in life that something you say on an online forum would upset them? :/ Do you live in super happy land with no troubles by any chance? Seriously, I have better things to worry and get upset about.

 

and falling back on the grammar/spelling error insults? Please come up with something better. It is not how something is said, but what is said. If people spent less time worrying about how they were perceieved (oops spelling :)), and more time worrying about what, and why, they said what they do the world would be a much better place.

 

back on topic: You care about the server, but only your image of the server. You think that if it is like this it will be busy and populated. They think that if it is like this it will be populated. The fact is, since at the moment you have no impact on it whatsoever their's is the idea that is happening. Maybe it won't work, we can only wait and see. If you really cared you would be on there training up to stop them and provide opposition. Since you are not I can only assume this "caring" is merely something to try and boost the way people view you on the forums, rather than something genuine.

 

edit: Oh, and as to why I post? I thrive on the drama, if you hadn't gathered this from my other posts. The more you feed me, the happier and more likely to reply I will be :o In the end it is a waste of time, but it helps pass the time and provides me with entertainment ^^

Edited by Lorlen

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feel free to ignore this, since i'm not a pk server player

 

actually I think the idea of community rules and enforcement through the community is a great thing and i wish it was like that on the main server! on the main server you can be an asshole, backstab your friends, etc. and nothing happens. but for other minor offences against the game rules you get banned.

 

did any of you whiners ever notice the RP in MMORPG? it's a roleplay game ffs! in fact i really consider changing to the pk server now, since it seems to be more fun and there seems to be much more team spirit.

 

good luck guys!

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actually I think the idea of community rules and enforcement through the community is a great thing and i wish it was like that on the main server! on the main server you can be an asshole, backstab your friends, etc. and nothing happens. but for other minor offences against the game rules you get banned.

 

This isn't really a valid point, if you are an asshole or a backstabber (or whatever), chances are you're either:

 

-Added to a bot/trade black list.

-Added to a BroD list.

-Added to a 'don't return DB 'list

-Red tagged

 

Look at what happened to people like Erstad, do you think FURY could step into PK without being attacked (and subsequently, possibly, owned?).

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Here's an example of something I see happening:

Player A gets a pk server account, starts playing. He doesn't know anyone in the server and doesn't read forums. He pks someone during an invasion. He then gets PM's from 3 different people saying that he better give stuff back + 2k GC or he will be hunted down. He denies. He then spends the next week getting pked constantly, and doesn't know why. He quits the server.

from this i know you don't even read the forums. http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=43271

i started playing 1 month ago and these rules were already accepted by the community.

 

Maybe you should think this through, and think for the better of the server, rather than placing yourself in a position of power. I can almost guarantee that this stupid idea will put many people off the server. How are community rules enforced on the main server? Did you ever think about doing ti that way? We don't make people do retarded punishments like banning them from being traded with and threatening people who trade with them, if they kill a pvper. We ostracize them, and put them on our PK lists.
The PK server is a mirror of the main server, while the main has approximately 20% pk areas the PK has 20% safe areas. If on main you PK someone when they go wrong it makes sense a trade embargo as punishment.

 

Oh, I sincerely apologize. There must be something wrong with my eyes, I don't see that this thread is entitled "Disputes," all I see is four people running around acting like the freaking mafia.
Again this reveals you don't play on the PK server.
I can easily compare the main to the PK. It's the same game. Same principles, there are no reasons why the way we enforce community rules on the main will not work here.
PK server has no Mods, didn't you know?
Perhaps you're simply just trying to keep yourself in power, I don't know. I'm only trying to help you, because reading this eliminated any chance of me playing on the server, and I'm sure it affected many others the same way.
After reading you posts I would pay gc to have you stay on the main server

 

Are you dumb, or do you just act like it?

Here's a word of advice, don't make completely unbased, illogical attacks when you don't know what you're talking about.

Perhaps I haven't been able to pay for a damn account? Perhaps I only recently acquired the means, or only recently felt like playing?

Well fuck you then, run your damn server like this, I only hope that when it dies because of idiotic ideas like this that you don't whine that no one wanted to play.

"Here's a word of advice, don't make completely unbased, illogical attacks when you don't know what you're talking about."

 

this is the most rediculous dumb shit i've ever hard, i think ill logg on just to pk someone during an invasion and say fu to all of you.

 

like labby said, who died and made yall king? this has given me a laugh and has brought my respect for all four of you to the floor, gratz.

no need. stay on the main server. they have red/black and soon white dragon armor and thermal serps you would get bored with the brown from all the leather.

 

Megalomania is commonly understood as a mental behavior characterized by an excessive desire

for power and glory and by illusory feelings of omnipotence. The latter can be expressed in

the psychopathological form of delusions of grandeur.

Heard it all my life, "takes one to know one!"

 

You kinda completely missed the point of my post - there are no safeguards there to stop the bunch of tin badge sheriffs from singling out a player and deciding that they are inappropriate material for the PK server.

 

What do you think the reaction would be if I logged in - a warm welcome with open arms or quiet commandments from on high to PK me on sight?

Contradicting themselves or not most of the pk server community is for this idea and that's why you see us all posting backing up not Lonewolfe, Handyman, Yaser and Bkc56 but the majority of active players on the pk server.

Nevertheless, I'm still curious on how you lost 85 rostos when you say you could take on every guy that attacked you and send them to the uw with only you trustful pickax.

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Nevertheless, I'm still curious on how you lost 85 rostos when you say you could take on every guy that attacked you and send them to the uw with only you trustful pickax.
No I never lost 85 rosts, I *sold* 85 rosts. One hell of a difference.
Takes one to know one
What I think you meant is
I know you are but what am I?
Wow the thread's most convincing argument, if not the forum's :)

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