Potential Outlaws.

[LadyBea]

Now we all know that 'spawn serping' is a moral no-no.

Now we are about to get a whole new breed of spawn serpers....... or is that bag jumpers????

 

With this new skill of Ranging, there comes the draw back of you wounding a monster and then someone - who can't normally kill them - coming in and finishing off the monster and therefore grabbing the bag of goodies.....

Or, horror of horrors, getting on the bag of the monster you just killed and grabbing contents....

 

Do we list all those as outlaws?

[Cycloonx]

With this new skill of Ranging, there comes the draw back of you wounding a monster and then someone - who can't normally kill them - coming in and finishing off the monster and therefore grabbing the bag of goodies.....

 

You can't shoot them from nearby, so still the real fighter would be the fastest to pick up the bag. And a bag is not yours, so I guess just live with it.

[Shujral]

I'd be more worried about someone with high perception/night visor sniping spawns >.<

[Sir_Exeus]

If someone kills somthing with a bow they dont "engage: in combat so it isnt really there kill........I vote taking the DB is fine and so is attacking there monster but what ever

[fyrrflyy]

Wtf? So if I see you in KF and kill you with my bow, it's all fun and games because we didn't fight, and you just magically ended in the UW?

[popeye]

Now we all know that 'spawn serping' is a moral no-no.

Now we are about to get a whole new breed of spawn serpers....... or is that bag jumpers????

 

With this new skill of Ranging, there comes the draw back of you wounding a monster and then someone - who can't normally kill them - coming in and finishing off the monster and therefore grabbing the bag of goodies.....

Or, horror of horrors, getting on the bag of the monster you just killed and grabbing contents....

 

Do we list all those as outlaws?

I can't believe this was even posted.

It might be a moral no-no, but it is legal. And someone wounding a bear and not killing it doesn't make the bear killer a bag jumper. Same goes for monsters.

 

*edited: added the "I can't believe this was even posted" part. Some people's children..........

Edited April 5, 2008 by popeye

[Wizzy]

If someone kills somthing with a bow they dont "engage: in combat so it isnt really there kill........I vote taking the DB is fine and so is attacking there monster but what ever

I disagree, for the price of the arrows it would be nice to recover some of the cost with out someone just taking your kill. Of course this is not against the rules, but is a pain in the butt to spend 30gc's to kill a boar, and try to recover 20 in meat/bones. But if the mob is still alive when someone kills it as your shooting I would say fair game

[Ateh]

as far as ive seen so far with people practising archery theres alot of bags left hanging around , i dont suppose you can call it your own if your not anywhere near it .........

 

I dunnoh, as far as I can see if someone really wanted to post an outlaws because they believed someone took thier animal drop , i think it would say more about them than the people who saw a bag of bones and picked it up

 

Perhaps someone could actually make a nice business of following an archer around picking up thier drops lol

[LadyBea]

Got you talking didn't it?

And yes, I know that bags are fair game, and you do not "own" a spawn.

Maybe I just posted this as a result of some idle chatter I was having with someone else....

[Fourier]

Spawn serping is spawn serping. If some one is working a spawn with a bow and you attack the spawn, you are spawn serping. Same as if you are working a spawn using magic, summons, other weapons, or bare hands. If some kills a spawn with a bow, and you take the bag, you are a bag jumper, same as if you took it from some one who is using summons, magic, etc.

 

4

Edited April 6, 2008 by Fourier

[Wizzy]

Spawn serping is spawn serping. If some one is working a spawn with a bow and you attack the spawn, you are spawn serping. Same as if you are working a spawn using magic, summons, other weapons, or bare hands. If some kills a spawn with a bow, and you take the bag, you are a bag jumper, same as if you took it from some one who is using summons, magic, etc.

 

4

I would tend to agree with you, but a number of issuse come up. The darn spawn keeps moving, sometimes it is too far, or to close, so you need to time it right. Someone just passing by may not notice that that 30/35 hp gob has had a pr0 ranger shooting gc's at it. So he hits it with his pick, picks up bag and wonders off on his/her merry way. This is understandable. It is the N44b that stands by you watching as you make a kill, and jumps on the bag. This is noobish opurtunistic behaviour, much the same as bag jumping.

[korrode]

Fourier said it well.

 

If you're on a spawn with bow or barefist/weps, it's the same rules as always, whoever was there first has "rights" to the spawn. Any attacking of that spawn by someone else is stealing/serping.

 

EDIT: typos

Edited April 6, 2008 by Korrode

[Sayre]

It could also be argued that once the arrow is fired, the combat is over. Rather than being a continuous battle, it is a series of discrete engagements, and as such the notion of spawn serping is somewhat more complex.

 

I tend to believe the person who gets the kill should get the bag, but that's just me. However, I think a lot of honest and otherwise mistakes will occur with regard "ownership" of a monster, simply due to the discrete nature of the battle, and I would certainly err on the conservative side of naming someone outlaw as a result.

 

S.

[woo]

Ok and if fighter x is training on beast x and archer see nice still target and fires few arrows into your beast then walks away is that serping or just archery?

[Khalai]

Ok and if fighter x is training on beast x and archer see nice still target and fires few arrows into your beast then walks away is that serping or just archery?

 

I'd see that if the archer sees the fighter, it should be considered spawn serping, however if archer just fires a couple of arrows on bystanding monster, while there some fighter looking for it somewhere and the archer does not see nor knows, it's just a misunderstanding.

 

Anyways, instead of contemplating "what if" and "they should", I suggest using common sense, while dealing with those issues. Communication is always the best way to solve them.

[Ghrae]

As someone toying around with archery... if I saw a fighter engaged and took a few shots... I would not expect the bag at all. Unless he/she asked me other wise, I would consider it a little xp for me and that's it. I'm not Missing... uh... Ranging for drops. I'm doing it so Entropy has bricks.

[conavar]

As someone toying around with archery... if I saw a fighter engaged and took a few shots...

 

That opens up a whole new can of worms though.. if someone is training a/d and an archer takes a few shots at your spawn, the spawn has a bad habit of fleeing combat and chasing the archer... which to be honest is slightly annoying lol

 

But for the whole debate hmmm IMO if someone is training there a/d on a spawn then leave them in peace, there are plenty of unused spawns ( falcons, ferans,trolls, penquins,lions etc) that are more than good enough to train archery on.

 

The bag question is a difficult one.. but my views are, a big group of archers can quite happily all shoot at the same creature/s (had fun doing this in MM cave with others) and no one can claim the db as there own so its fair game, but if someone is using archery (pk arrows) to farm creatures like yeti's then yes the bag should be theres.

Lets just hope common sence comes into play.

Edited April 6, 2008 by conavar

[LabRat]

If you have a pattern going you can use the fact that targets attack you to your advantage:

x   archer 1




x   target




x   archer 2

Archer 1 fires, the target heads towards him

Archer 2 fires, the target heads towards him now

repeat until dead.

 

Both get experience and less risk of being attacked. Just sidestepping left or right one square means the animal won't attack you in its rage (monster magnetism issues notwithstanding).

 

Archery as it stands is going to cause so many issues in outlaws, but just changing policy to sharing spawns for archery and splitting the drops at the end will make life easier all round.

[Aislinn]

As someone toying around with archery... if I saw a fighter engaged and took a few shots...

 

That opens up a whole new can of worms though.. if someone is training a/d and an archer takes a few shots at your spawn, the spawn has a bad habit of fleeing combat and chasing the archer... which to be honest is slightly annoying lol

 

But for the whole debate hmmm IMO if someone is training there a/d on a spawn then leave them in peace, there are plenty of unused spawns ( falcons, ferans,trolls, penquins,lions etc) that are more than good enough to train archery on.

I agree with conavar and it works both ways. An archer imo should not take shots on a creature already engaged in combat with somebody else. By the same token, people should not engage in combat a creature an archer is shooting at. I've run into both of these situations. I've accidentally shot at a creature without seeing the person fighting it, said sorry and didn't fire again and walked away. Honest mistakes can and will happen, and once is worth saying "np" with a smile. (It's also happened in reverse, people not seeing me and starting to fight, but leaving when they do realize I was there). However I have run into a few people who seem to feel they are entitled to take over the creature I'm shooting at. I find that just plain rude. That imo is spawn serping, when it is intentional and they keep doing it knowing you are there. Then I have NO compunctions just standing there and taking shots at the creatures they are fighting.

 

And labrat's diagram works great, we've been doing that too.

 

(Please note, this is not about moderating or legality or anything but me as a player and my experiences as such)

[ShYne]

Yes! Finally someone has mentioned this. I am trying to train on my gargs and wolves, then were is fools attacking them, or there is fools shooting the next animal at the spawn where I was at first! I couldn't even train yesterday, because all of spawns were taken up by archers

[Aislinn]

Yes! Finally someone has mentioned this. I am trying to train on my gargs and wolves, then were is fools attacking them, or there is fools shooting the next animal at the spawn where I was at first! I couldn't even train yesterday, because all of spawns were taken up by archers

Lol I think everybody has been talking about it since we started.

Archers are trainers too, just using a different weapon. However they shouldn't be greedy and rude and take all the spawns, just like somebody with a sword shouldn't.

[peino]

In all other spawn serping debates, people are told that if a spawn is busy, just go find another. Doesn't that simple advice apply to archers, too?

 

To the archers: Since archers face a relatively higher risk of getting bagjumped when they kill something, wouldn't it make sense for archers to avoid training in crowded/popular spawn areas? Or go out with friends who can retrieve the bags for them? You know, um... duh, really.

 

To a/d trainers: If an archer's working a spawn when you get there, then he's working that spawn. It doesn't matter how archery works. He's there, he's training, that's it. (and vice versa for archers if an a/d trainer is already there.)

 

Finally, re that part about "taking a few shots" for exp on a mob that someone else is fighting -- I'm sorry, but I think that's really rude. First, if it makes the mob break off from them to chase you, then you're interfering with their training. Second, if you weaken the mob, making it die faster, then you're lowering the exp they can get off it. If they're not having trouble, and they don't ask for help or accept an offer of help, then you should keep your arrows in the quiver and let them train and make their kill. IMO.

Edited April 6, 2008 by peino

[Alberich]

<snip>

However I have run into a few people who seem to feel they are entitled to take over the creature I'm shooting at. I find that just plain rude. That imo is spawn serping, when it is intentional and they keep doing it knowing you are there. Then I have NO compunctions just standing there and taking shots at the creatures they are fighting.

<snip>

Well I guess I did that a quite few times.

But to defend myself:

 

I always serped animals while waiting for the respawn of the main critter to compensate the loss of HE and SRs and they tend to wander off while I fight the main thing so I have to hunt them down.

You don't always see the ranger when I engage the animal, when you finally caught up with the animal you see the ranger

And almost every animal is wounded so I can't tell from that if someone is training on it or not.

With normal fighters it's easy to tell what spawn they use but with you rangers it's not that easy since you seem to shoot on every thing that walks around and the critters get far of their spawn.

 

And if you really wanted me to stop you could have simply said so and I would have used an other part of the map, easiest things work the best.

[Aislinn]

I always serped animals while waiting for the respawn of the main critter to compensate the loss of HE and SRs and they tend to wander off while I fight the main thing so I have to hunt them down.

Sure, we all do that if some wander past us unclaimed. Not an issue imo.

 

You don't always see the ranger when I engage the animal, when you finally caught up with the animal you see the ranger

Yep agreed, I'm not annoyed with that part either. It's hard to always know who has what spawn or what is going on right away.

 

And almost every animal is wounded so I can't tell from that if someone is training on it or not.

Yep.

 

With normal fighters it's easy to tell what spawn they use but with you rangers it's not that easy since you seem to shoot on every thing that walks around and the critters get far of their spawn.

Well maybe some do but this is not a fair assessment of every archer. I try my best to pick a creature and stick with it until it dies and not hog up other ones unless they wander across my path as you stated above. Courtesy goes both ways, of course archers should not claim multiple spawns if others are around wanting to train too.

 

And if you really wanted me to stop you could have simply said so and I would have used an other part of the map, easiest things work the best.

Well notwithstanding it should be kind of obvious I (or any others trying to train) would be annoyed at that behavior, I agree

[Cazuza]

To a/d trainers: If an archer's working a spawn when you get there, then he's working that spawn. It doesn't matter how archery works. He's there, he's training, that's it. (and vice versa for archers if an a/d trainer is already there.)

 

ya, pls stop sniping mobs im training on -_______-