Increase the gc Cyclops drop

[masterpiter]

Staying on a monster with 105 health and 70/50 a/d for ages and then jumping to a 250 health, 95/95 a/d monster tbh sounds ridiculous when there is a 200 health 80/80 a/d monster in the game.

Its not ages man, its around 10k ogres, sometimnes less but probably not more than 10k ogres, its really nothing, few weeks of playing if u play a lot, u will have to stay on fluff or feros 10 times longer anyways

 

I like cyclops as they r coz they r good for the economy.

Its u who chose to train on them, no1 forces u to do that.

U can always reset/keep low p/c and stay on ogre tsed, or do few days of pvp, i dont see any problem here( with ts pots u can adjust ur a/d very easy to ppl who r lower/higher a/d and pvp them np, as long as ur p/c is similar).

 

I like that not all monsters r "best" to train on, it makes combat training a little challenging, and like i said before, 90% of cyclops trainers r ppl who mix/harv a lot, so they can make money to pay for supplies lost on cycs or simply make supplies by themselfs

 

mp

[korrode]

Yeah... MP... i know.

If i was training a char with the goal being to level a/d, i'd use Ogres in the manner you've said np, but my thread is about there being a monster one can serp for decent gc that isn't as hard as yeti.

It doesn't have to give as much as yeti, just decent.

 

Even if f.chim gc drop amount was increased it would suit me, but i'm trying to think of others not so strong as well.

 

EDIT: To perhaps be more clear; i'm not suggesting clops stats change. In fact, it's because of their stats that they are the monster i suggest drops more gc.

Edited March 9, 2008 by Korrode

[Ermabwed]

Training a/d pays off from day one, furs, bones and meat sell well, the experience gained at higher levels is easily about 3 times and more than what you can usually get in any other skill.

 

Gold coin and frequent drops should in my opinion cover the usual costs (healing), (other) drops should more or less cover the extra costs (breakages) for a suitable build at "recommended" levels.

 

Show me a level of a/d that a person can earn more by fighting than by harvesting for flower shop. No doubt there are points where this is the case, but I am very confident it is not "from day one". Why do you see so many pure fighters harvesting to raise gc if this is true?

You're missing the fact that fighters make a/d exp at the same time they're getting gc while training/fighting. The point is there is an all profit way to level a/d from the day of character creation to top levels.

There is and there needs to be a trade off between huge profit and experience.

 

I just want to add some thoughts to Korrode's test: of course 30 cyclops is statistically insignificant but let's assume you did 10k of them and those were the numbers (i.e. profit of ~.5gc per clops). That's certainly not good and should be increased a little towards fluffy profit levels perhaps (i.e. profit for a regular clops trainer), idk if agsnny's 10gc is enough for that or not. Then you should be able to farm it for some profit at higher levels.

[korrode]

I just want to add some thoughts to Korrode's test: of course 30 cyclops is statistically insignificant but let's assume you did 10k of them and those were the numbers (i.e. profit of ~.5gc per clops). That's certainly not good and should be increased a little towards fluffy profit levels perhaps (i.e. profit for a regular clops trainer), idk if agsnny's 10gc is enough for that or not. Then you should be able to farm it for some profit at higher levels.

And I just wanna reiterate the following;

 

A. Even in my -19 TS'd state, my a/d was still much higher than that of an average clops trainer, so i think it's safe to assume that it would be significantly less than 0.5gc per clops for average trainers, i believe it would infact be well into the negative.

 

B. I used more SRS/HE on those 30 clops than i would on 30 fluffys at the same levels, with the same armor.

 

C. The fact they break more armor than most other creatures needs to be considered also, and i'd also like to state that i trained clops a lot longer than most people (because at one point i had a 17 level gap in a/d, i trained clops when i could barely hit them, by the time i could hit them my def was in the 90's, att still in the mid 70's, and i continued training them until i could hit fluffy ok), so i consider myself an authority on their armor break rate

 

I hope that shows that making the actual max gc drop figure be the same as fluffy will not be near enough, they would need to drop quite a bit more gc than fluff just to match the fluffy, let alone become decent profit while farming.

 

And yes i know 30 clops is statistically insignificant, but considering the max gc i saw dropped was 34gc, if we assume 35gc is the upper limit, then based on averages, 30 clops is 525gc. I got 497gc... so it's probably pretty close

(Perhaps a current clops trainer can let us know if the max is 35gc.)

[Ermabwed]

On A, B and C, yes I agree, that has to be taken into consideration, one would have to calculate profit on a per clops and time basis. The break rate should be factored either into the "rare" drops or the gc drops (depends on the rare drops and their frequency). And everything based on a model player (appropriate build and levels) of course, that player should on average get a slight profit.

[Fedora]

C. The fact they break more armor than most other creatures needs to be considered also, and i'd also like to state that i trained clops a lot longer than most people (because at one point i had a 17 level gap in a/d, i trained clops when i could barely hit them, by the time i could hit them my def was in the 90's, att still in the mid 70's, and i continued training them until i could hit fluffy ok), so i consider myself an authority on their armor break rate

 

(Perhaps a current clops trainer can let us know if the max is 35gc.)

 

I trained 2048 cycs from a/d 67/67 to low 80's (say 83).

 

On average with 66 restores i could train for 1 hour and half, making 280-350xp/hour (factoring astro, multi...) in full tit+CoL+NMT.

 

I broke a CoL, a MoL (stupid me), countless meds, degraded (and repaired) 4 tit shields, 1 cuisses and a CoL, lost 2 rosto. (on the other hand 1k fluffies have already eaten 3 tit greaves...)

 

And yes drops were ridicolous (never see anything over 35gc iirc), few tilongs, not even a serp stone if they still drop. I had the luck of having 3 "rare" books (tit short of thermal) soon after they were introduced, so i made some money out of them repaying the CoL.

 

As for increasing drops, I'm not sure. To me cycs have been a sort of feros with very good xp (better than ogres I think), fast leveling, high emu for my other skills. Add in free multiple spawns and the risk of breaking armor (actually degrading it, which is different)...quite balanced no? However i see your point, but i tend to agree with Erma...you are getting tons of exp while fighting and since a/d in the 90's is quite easy to reach, adding a source of money at those levels isnt a good thing.

[asgnny]

If you're dropping your a/d by 19, you will presumably take longer to kill, and block a cyclops less often than you otherwise would. At full a/d, you would use fewer resources to kill the same cyclops, but at the opportunity cost of potential experience. That is like saying cockatrice doesn't drop enough gc because when I go -19 a/d and box them, I use too many restores. If you take too much damage at -19 defense, maybe it's time to use your defense to your advantage, or use better armor, or to better utilize your pickpoints.

 

Just because your current training strategy is not working well enough for you does not make the cyclops an untrainable monster.

[korrode]

Errr i'm well past clops, i was just trying to emulate the conditions of the average clops trainer as closely as i could with my current char.

 

i.e.

My actual a/d is 105/111, i train Feros.

The goal for me is to be able to go orc slayer clops for some gc.

Many people start clops training in mid 70's a/d, so i was just trying to get as close to that as possible... and imo, whether i'm -19 TS'd to 93 def or at my full 111 def, i'd say there's little difference against a monster with 80 attack and seemingly low coord. and with 86 att and my quite decent dexterity, i was hitting 100%, not TS'ing my att may have upped my damage a little, thats it.

Edited March 9, 2008 by Korrode

[asgnny]

Errr i'm well past clops, <...>

My actual a/d is 105/111, i train Feros.

The goal for me is to be able to go orc slayer clops for some gc.

Many people start clops training in mid 70's a/d, so i was just trying to get as close to that as possible... and imo, whether i'm -19 TS'd to 93 def or at my full 111 def, i'd say there's little difference against a monster with 80 attack and seemingly low coord. and with 86 att and my quite decent dexterity, i was hitting 100%, not TS'ing my att may have upped my damage a little, thats it.

If cyclops drop poor gc, then don't rely on them for it. Was this a typo?

 

Fighting at 92 defense vs. 111 may make a difference. It could also be that cyclops are landing tons of critical hits. Not knowing the full stats of any monster, we fighters can do nothing but make adjustments by trial and error. Fedora seems to be doing extremely well, using expensive armor. Maybe your optimum would be to use inexpensive armor. There is no "right" or "wrong" way to train. Some players would be happy using a thermal serp and black dragon armor to fight cyclops all day. Others may fight barehanded with some inexpensive leather. Both of these methods, and everything in between, will earn the player a/d experience, and some sort of drops.

[korrode]

If cyclops drop poor gc, then don't rely on them for it. Was this a typo?

Um, have you actually read my posts in this thread? like this:

i also think that u shouldn't have to get to a level where killing Yeti is "easy" before you have a viable monster to go serp for gc.

 

I'd like to think with all the time i've already put into a/d training i could go and do something with my skill that earns me more gc per hour than a player with Harvest 30, Inorg 2 and a bunch of phys can make mining Silver.

 

Cyclops; The new mini Yeti?

Or this?:

clops seem perfect from a "how much a/d training should u have to do before it starts paying off" stand-point.

Or this?:

Yeah but the a/d exp doesn't equate to gc until yeti level, thats too higher level imo.

As for the argument of the heap of OA exp = carry capacity = more gc... Firstly, you still use some other skill to actually make that money. Secondly, we have 48 cap now so this argument loses a lot of strength.

Or this?:

But, I'm not really here to debate the trainability of monsters. Many who used to train Yeti cannot do so since that attribute cap, but, people who used to train them and even some who couldn't train them prior to the cap still now serp them for gc.

 

My point is i really dont agree with this "Once you can serp yeti np gc is easy, but until then your a/d skill aint worth shit in regard to getting gc from drops".

Or this?:

but my thread is about there being a monster one can serp for decent gc that isn't as hard as yeti.

It doesn't have to give as much as yeti, just decent.

 

Even if f.chim gc drop amount was increased it would suit me, but i'm trying to think of others not so strong as well.

 

EDIT: To perhaps be more clear; i'm not suggesting clops stats change. In fact, it's because of their stats that they are the monster i suggest drops more gc.

 

 

You're arguing that "If cyclops drop poor gc, then don't rely on them for it.", but the entire point of my thread is to make cyclops become a good source of gc in a similar manner that yeti's are (but to a lesser extent).

 

If you disagree with the idea of anyone who's not yet pr0 enough to easily serp yeti making decent gc from their a/d skill, just say so.

Edited March 9, 2008 by Korrode

[asgnny]

Yes, I'm sure the manufacturers all want Trik to triple his payouts for leather helms, the crafters want to get instantly rich from forking over their brilliantly polished gems. These (as well as most others) are difficult skills to level up, unless you have a rather large bankroll. Everyone wants something added to make it easier for him to train. If people are breaking even between the cost of supplies and drops, I think the drops are just about perfect. All the other skills, save harvesting, offer a net LOSS for those leveling up, assuming buying the ingredients at market prices. Any skill which produces a net surplus of gc will cause inflation, (unless there is an exit for the gc). Entropy outlined this rather poignantly in his recent blog entry.

 

If you want something to kill for gc, try phantom warriors. Terrible exp, but lots of gc and drops for you . The mid-level Yeti you asked for was there all along. It's just a bit difficult to see at night.

[korrode]

Although i'd still really like to see an increase in the gc dropped by clops, ty for the PW advice, i'll try em out

[Zamirah]

Yes and I'd like the chims to drop a lot more.

I train the same for 1.5 hour - healing it - give 500k-800k exp/hour but I get only 1 drop, so please let them drop more gc.

[Peach]

Yes and I'd like the chims to drop a lot more.

I train the same for 1.5 hour - healing it - give 500k-800k exp/hour but I get only 1 drop, so please let them drop more gc.

well thats ur own fault

but i agree that cyclops should have their drops increased ( gc AND rare drops )

[Zipher]

i train on cycs

i would like an increase in GC and everything because thats what everyone wants

but i would even take gc over drops such as Ti longs, all they have been doing is sitting in my sto staring at me

in a few hours of training using all my HE's and sr's about 200HE's -50 Sr's i think roughly i get about 1-2kgc

but i train in EP so i load up on furs bones and meat in between so i dont loose "as much" but an increase in GC would be lovely

 

~Zipher4~

Edited November 10, 2008 by zipher4

[Sonic]

i train on cycs

i would like an increase in GC and everything because thats what everyone wants

but i would even take gc over drops such as Ti longs, all they have been doing is sitting in my sto staring at me

in a few hours of training using all my HE's and sr's about 200HE's -50 Sr's i think roughly i get about 1-2kgc

but i train in EP so i load up on furs bones and meat in between so i dont loose "as much" but an increase in GC would be lovely

 

~Zipher4~

 

(1) Gz on the necro'ing

 

(2) Yes increase feros drops by 100x pls

 

(3) Get real, many hundreds of people have passed through the cyclops phase...and lived to tell tale. Just persevere a little longer and you will be on fluffs, they are better (or usually are anyway).

 

I think a better suggestion would be to have an NPC buying those ti-longs of yours...

[Ambrosius]

Training a/d pays off from day one, furs, bones and meat sell well, the experience gained at higher levels is easily about 3 times and more than what you can usually get in any other skill.

Yeah but the a/d exp doesn't equate to gc until yeti level, thats too higher level imo.

As for the argument of the heap of OA exp = carry capacity = more gc... Firstly, you still use some other skill to actually make that money. Secondly, we have 48 cap now so this argument loses a lot of strength.

 

 

Gold coin and frequent drops should in my opinion cover the usual costs (healing), (other) drops should more or less cover the extra costs (breakages) for a suitable build at "recommended" levels.

Well, atm clops dont even to that, and i generally disagree. I think there should be some profit to be had, as with any other skill.

 

Ill burst that bubble: serping double yeti with OS gives smth like 120-140k oa xp per hour max....sadly :/

 

Still, increasing the gc drops from clops sounds like a good idea. You can train it for xp but also serp it then to make extra gc.

[jammie]

i train on cycs

i would like an increase in GC and everything because thats what everyone wants

but i would even take gc over drops such as Ti longs, all they have been doing is sitting in my sto staring at me

in a few hours of training using all my HE's and sr's about 200HE's -50 Sr's i think roughly i get about 1-2kgc

but i train in EP so i load up on furs bones and meat in between so i dont loose "as much" but an increase in GC would be lovely

 

~Zipher4~

 

I think it is fine as it is but as GerbilD said a good idea would to have a npc to sell the titanium long swords to.

[Shadeslayer]

yea, just make trik buy them would be easiest

[Dilly]

Trik should also not pay much less than price of ingreds for the tit longs

 

We'll all be rich!

[Guest Trojan_Knight]

I doubt any changes to any of this will be made. In the very long distant past, I was outraged by some things relating to this.. But I think now, after a very long while later. That some creatures like the Clops for example have to be how it is. In order to help balance the game economically.. (typod ? lolz) Anyways.. If the crit rate was lowered, and the gc rate was increased.. Then who's gonna buy stuff from player so and so? I think like said in some back pages on this thread somewhere by Erma that we all have the opportunity from day one to build our character in what ever manner we wish.. Meaning imho, that if you want a farmer, and you use high p,c. Then that was a choice you made. If you rather build a char that can train on 1 fluff for a hr instead. Then that was another choice that was made. You even have the choice to change your build. But given at a cost if you wish to procede it.

 

So my overall point is. I think the way things are now, is completely fine. Verses how they use to be, I can see huge positive changes.. Remember prior to yetis? Prior to Phantom Warriors? What was farmable back then? Absolutely nothing. Unless ya had a good arm and a investment in pick axes.

 

~~> me <~~

[korrode]

Ill burst that bubble: serping double yeti with OS gives smth like 120-140k oa xp per hour max....sadly :/

That is truly sad :\

With OS, surely you kill the yeti long before the other one is going to respawn? could u not use JS/cutty and get 1 flee? increasing exp without decreasing drops too much?

 

--------------------

 

As for the clops-gc thing;

 

Clops crit heaps.

Last i checked if i went and trained it, it'd make me use more HE/SR than fluffy or feros would.

 

It's simple logic for it to be mini-yeti (cause they crit like mofos too)...

 

But w/e lol, this thread is like 8 months old, obviously it's not gonna happen.

[Ambrosius]

Yes you do, but with JS xp runs out before its dead.

Ofcourse, you can flee 1x but then its not serping anymore (in my book) besides, flee 1 x and you get hit a lot more (longer fight) which will then again cut into your profit a lot.

With the attribute cap and the Yeti crit hitting as much as they do, you want to kill them asap: If gc harving is what you want: kill as much as you can per hour.

[Jaclaw]

orc slayer ftw we usually afk on that spawn too

[Bernie]

I trained clops for 6 months when i was at that level.....great exp , could almost always find a spawn, ya they broke my stuff, so what, just bought new stuff from ppl who make it. Yes, i used he's and sr's, so what, just bought more from ppl who make that too. I dont get why yu are complaining? I would train solid for 3-5 days till i ran outta resources, then just go harvest/alch more, buy more. I was not / am not a "hard core alch/potter" as you said those are the ppl that train clops.

 

I had excellent advice from someone helping me train, and i listened! I just wore better armor, hence less damage to me , less resources used. I would just load up on he's and sr's and train till i ran out, go restock and get back to spawn to train more.

 

Everyone has a "style" to train, you just gotta try different approaches.....armor, weapons, medallions....to see what works best for you. Also, never hurts to ask for advice, that's what i did

 

This worked well for me, and while i was harvesting for making more he's, i was lucky to find some pretty stones once in a while, sold those to buy more sr's too

 

It all worked out for me, i got a/d exp, a lil gc, drops to sell, more alch/harv exp = oa's fast. I will say that i never trained on ogre's , i jumped from trolls to cyclops, i like to "push" my training. I just adjusted my gear to accomodate this, with advice from my trainer. I tried different stuff till i found what worked and went for it.