Where Have The Rost's Gone ?

[Ghrae]

This game revolves around PK, most of the wares mixers produce are for use in PK.

 

In short - you're wrong.

 

If you had said that a large part of this game is fighting, I would have let it go. But obviously PK is not that popular (I'll let you do your own search for "PK is dead" and see how many threads you find.)

 

I'm a crafter and harvester - not really PK skills. Oh but I can hear you chomping at the bit. Yes I have made over 400 CoLs. And I'm sure a few were used in PK. But I also know a LOT of fighters who have trained with them. Trained. Fighting. Creatures. Note: not PK.

 

Most of my trades are with alchers and harvesters. I sell most of my crafting to NPC (at nearly break even prices). And while I'm useless if a dragon enters Portland... I am a long time part of this game.

 

PKing is not the center of this game. Having fun is. Being social is (hey, you didn't join a MMORPG to put everyone on #ignore). Being able to do multiple skills is (let's face it, WoW subscriptions aren't that much if you wanted less skill diversity for a single character).

[Tempest]

since theres no real good way (except shop) to make decent gc anymore.

 

i can go against that ..... been playing to long and struggeled for gc so long yet within the last 2 months i've gained more gc than ever before in el without the use of shop

 

also if i remember correctly when rostos 1st came in they were rare as the idea was not everybody would have them and thats how it was for quite some time.

 

as far as i can see maybe it would be an idea just to pk with diss/tele in cheaper armor than having to show off with flashy therms/other magic weps and full dragon set, even tho i can understand fully how it makes it easier with that sort of set up. but from experience i seem to as good as most players that use col with only 90 life not sure why tho

i meant fighters are not able to make any decent gc. if u wanna have gc u need to harv/alch, but a pker cant get good gc in any way anymore

[masterpiter]

i meant fighters are not able to make any decent gc. if u wanna have gc u need to harv/alch, but a pker cant get good gc in any way anymore

U cant make 80k gc/h on dragon anymore but u can make 7-8k gc on yeti per 1 hour so not so bad still

[Ermabwed]

Or you could kill bears and sell their furs for lots of gc. The myth of fighters being unable to make money with their skill is without basis in this game.

[masterpiter]

Erma, ur example is pretty bad coz u lose more then u gain by killing bears( they mana burn u very often so u need mag immune or drain them, which is a lot of gc, probably more then 20-25 or w/e bear fur is worth

[conavar]

I don't understand one thing: in which way hoarding rostos hurt the economy? Ok, when it comes to efes hoarding may hurt, as Entropy sees there are a lot in game and lowers the rate when in fact most of those efes may never enter the market. But rostos can be only harvested or bought from the shop, and I've never heard Ent ever changed the rate on them.

 

All those whiners in this thread remind me of children screaming "he has a toy and I don't, I want it NOW!" and that doesn't seem right to me. If a peaceful harvester decides he wants to keep 10 rostos hi mined "because they're shiny" - it's his right to do so.

 

Getting rostos may be a problem now as many "shoppers" went to PK server, but we have to manage somehow. Maybe we'll see more people training (or PKing?) in leather armors?

 

And last but not least: EL is not only about PK, it's important part of the game, but not the only one, so dear PKers, please don't consider yourself a center of the world (that's a general statement, not only about this thread).

 

It would be nice to know the rate for: chance to find a rost vs chance to make an efe .

 

And following the logic of some people in this thread , enhanced essies can be bought from the EL shop so people hoarding them isnt really a problem is it .

 

Yes if a peaceful harvester wants to keep 10 shiny rost's in storage and never use them thats there choice, a stupid choice imo but there choice none the less, and once again by that logic if an ebul trainer/pker wants to keep 100 EFE in his storage and never use them, thats his right as well isnt it ? , its not hurting anyone ?

 

To be honest there have been plenty of complaining by manuers in other threads about " lack/hoarding of EFE and stones they use" but as soon as a pker/training raises the same issue about a stone they use.. its a totally differant story and " people are allowed to hoard rosts as long as they dont hoard items us manuers need ".

 

and yes it would be cool if everyone pked in leather armours . Im all for that if everyone did it... but the first people to complain would be the manuers etc who's goods are no longer needed

[ville-v]

Erma, ur example is pretty bad coz u lose more then u gain by killing bears( they mana burn u very often so u need mag immune or drain them, which is a lot of gc, probably more then 20-25 or w/e bear fur is worth

Bear burns mana of enemy, right? Fighter could keep it at zero then.

[Tempest]

Erma, ur example is pretty bad coz u lose more then u gain by killing bears( they mana burn u very often so u need mag immune or drain them, which is a lot of gc, probably more then 20-25 or w/e bear fur is worth

Bear burns mana of enemy, right? Fighter could keep it at zero then.

 

yeh great 20gc for a fur means 1200gc an hour... very very good gc.. even afk harvesting 1 load of tit is better

[eagleprince]

Erma, ur example is pretty bad coz u lose more then u gain by killing bears( they mana burn u very often so u need mag immune or drain them, which is a lot of gc, probably more then 20-25 or w/e bear fur is worth

Bear burns mana of enemy, right? Fighter could keep it at zero then.

I just mana drain them, then use the mana to life-drain them. So I get huge magic xp, 3 meat, 1 fur and bones per bear. Surely that is worth the cost of essies. Also, they could hunt white tigers, with even more profit. Last I heard they were 50-60 gc per fur. A newb like me can kill them in 5 hits or less with armour, so the typical fighter should have no probs.

[peino]

1- I've only ever found a few rostos, and I've sold all of them. I don't use them, don't plan to use them, and see them as free money courtesy of Ma Nature.

 

2- I sell non-NPC items to bots mostly, because I don't like market channel. I take my time and poll almost every bot in the game to compare prices. I will not sell unless I like the price. If I don't like any of the prices, I will hold the item until I find a buyer paying closer to what I want. That's my right, since it's my stone. By the way, it has been a few weeks since I found a rosto, so I don't know the current market, but I have never sold one for less that 16K. Sometimes it takes a long time to find that price, but I do find it.

 

3- Rostos are supposed to be rare. In fact, they are not rare at all because they can be bought from the shop, but let's pretend for a minute that they really are a rare item. For a little while, they actually seem/feel rare, and PKers immediately start complaining that they can't get rostos, so they can't PK. Does it occur to anyone that maybe it was a mistake to make PK so dependent on such a rare item?

 

I get what Radu has done here: He sets up a game in which people can lose expensive gear if they die in PK. Then he introduces an item that will save that gear. He makes the item very rare in game, but makes it available in the shop. Result: People buy from the shop and financially support the game because they can't stand the idea of either losing their gear or not using their gear.

 

But imagine just for a moment that there was never such a thing as a rosto in EL. Are you PKers honestly telling me that you never would have taken up PK if you didn't have that magic stone? I don't believe it. I think I would have come into EL and found a game with just as much (or more) PK going on in no-rosto-EL as in rosto-EL.

 

4- It seems to me that, if rostos are needed for PK, then PK becomes a rich players' game. You have to either pay whatever prices harvesters demand, OR you have to buy them from the shop and have a never-ending supply, OR you have to risk your gear and be rich enough to replace it. PKers often say that it's not a game for newbies, that you can't really PK until you get to a certain a/d/p/c level. Well, maybe you can't really PK until you get to a certain wealth level, too.

 

I mean, if players are just going to flat-out REFUSE to PK in anything less than full ti or full dragon, then what can be done about it? Obviously, they have to figure out how to either get a constant flow of rostos into their inventories using RL money at the shop, or they have to figure out how to make huge stacks of gc for new armors/weapons. And if they can't do either of those things, well, then I guess they either have to give up PK or figure out a different way of doing it, or a different attitude about it.

 

5- Right now, Radu no doubt hates me because he knows I have never bought anything from the shop. That's because I'm totally broke, but even when I have money to spare, I won't buy a game item from the shop (though I would like to be able to just donate one of these days *gazes sadly at bills*). My reasons are personal -- I personally see buying useful game items as a kind of minor cheating (not real cheating, obviously). Items are set up to be rare or expensive, and the challenge of getting them is part of the game, imo. Because of this personal quirk of mine, I also do not use rostos. The game is set up to take things from me if I die, and that is the way I play it.

 

But if PKers just cannot PK without expensive gear they can't afford to replace plus rostos to keep it safe, then they should buy rostos from the shop because they are too rare in game to keep PKers supplied. Eventually, this will make in-game rostos worthless because PKers will always have full supplies of them, so maybe Radu could make a NPC that buys them or make them edible or something.

[conavar]

 

 

 

 

5- Right now, Radu no doubt hates me because he knows I have never bought anything from the shop. That's because I'm totally broke, but even when I have money to spare, I won't buy a game item from the shop (though I would like to be able to just donate one of these days *gazes sadly at bills*). My reasons are personal -- I personally see buying useful game items as a kind of minor cheating (not real cheating, obviously). Items are set up to be rare or expensive, and the challenge of getting them is part of the game, imo. Because of this personal quirk of mine, I also do not use rostos. The game is set up to take things from me if I die, and that is the way I play it.

 

But if PKers just cannot PK without expensive gear they can't afford to replace plus rostos to keep it safe, then they should buy rostos from the shop because they are too rare in game to keep PKers supplied. Eventually, this will make in-game rostos worthless because PKers will always have full supplies of them, so maybe Radu could make a NPC that buys them or make them edible or something.

 

 

You cant by anything from the shop because you are broke and for your personal reasons I not going to go on about it... but maybe others are in the same boat and just cant afford to buy rost's etc from the shop !!

and for them the only way is to buy them ingame, and if they do become to expensive to buy ingame, how do you think players will get the money to buy them ?

Will they harv an extra 300k lupines ? no of course they wont they will increase the price they sell drops for . 20 gold per bone anyone

People seem to forget EL works best if we all work together , but maybe thats me having the wrong impression about "community"

 

 

edit: Maybe Ent should make a npc that sells rost's.. the price would have to be 25k ish so that buying from the EL shop is still the cheapest most viable option and so not to take that source of income away

(j/k btw before people get all abusive )

Edited January 22, 2008 by conavar

[Ateh]

Things Ive heard in this thread :

 

Rostos are rare : So are serp stones, EFE , unless you are willing to pay good GC for them

 

Cant make much money Pking these days : When could you ? Was there a golden era in EL when everything was wonderful and everyone was walking around with 15 million GC in storage ? hmmm

 

Thing is, i'm sure it is difficult to find rostos and I'm glad its one less thing i have to look for.

 

I like to secretly ( or not so secretly ) blame Bots for all the shortages in EL, I just dont understand why people go and sell to a bot ( whose owner is going to hoard the good st00f - rosto - serp stone as an example ) when you can get a bit more money from a real player AND also know that its distributing the goods a bit more.

 

But saying that, it doesnt mean I suddenly demand that Bot owners start selling everything they buy !

 

EL is a challenge for all of us, no matter what skills you choose to focus on - but i still blame the bots lol

 

* edit * I still love bots, it s alove hate relationship , i trade with Miria , Jeepers and the like quite alot , so there ya go, hypocrisy ftw

Edited January 22, 2008 by Ateh

[Ermabwed]

yeh great 20gc for a fur means 1200gc an hour... very very good gc.. even afk harvesting 1 load of tit is better

The point is: fighters say they don't want to harvest. I pointed out one example of making money using fighting.

You can make money on skeletons as well, bones sell for more than 2gc each now or take other mobs... it might not be as good as the lupine bush but it's making money using fighting skills. I don't see a reason why A/D after already being the fastest skill to level should also be the most profitable...

[peino]

 

You cant by anything from the shop because you are broke and for your personal reasons I not going to go on about it... but maybe others are in the same boat and just cant afford to buy rost's etc from the shop !!

and for them the only way is to buy them ingame, and if they do become to expensive to buy ingame, how do you think players will get the money to buy them ?

Will they harv an extra 300k lupines ? no of course they wont they will increase the price they sell drops for . 20 gold per bone anyone

People seem to forget EL works best if we all work together , but maybe thats me having the wrong impression about "community"

 

 

edit: Maybe Ent should make a npc that sells rost's.. the price would have to be 25k ish so that buying from the EL shop is still the cheapest most viable option and so not to take that source of income away

(j/k btw before people get all abusive )

Well, like I said, if they can't afford rostos -- either with RL money or game money -- then they either PK less or PK without rostos. I don't really see what other choice they have, and I really don't see how hoarders putting their rostos on the market will make that much difference. Rich PKers will scarf them up ahead of poor ones anyway. After all, if I can get 16K for my rosto right away from RichieRich137, why should I wait for PooryMcPoorman17 to raise the money? This is what I meant by saying, if PK is going to depend on high-end armor/weaps protected by rostos, then PK becomes a rich player's game.

 

EDIT: So let's say all those hoarded rostos go on the market. The first people to buy them will be the PKers with the money. The flood of sales will bring down the price at first, but by the time a poor player gets some money together, the boom will be over and rostos back to being rare harvestables again. So you'll have the same trouble finding them for sale even at the better price.

Edited January 22, 2008 by peino

[conavar]

Well, like I said, if they can't afford rostos -- either with RL money or game money -- then they either PK less or PK without rostos. I don't really see what other choice they have, and I really don't see how hoarders putting their rostos on the market will make that much difference. Rich PKers will scarf them up ahead of poor ones anyway. After all, if I can get 16K for my rosto right away from RichieRich137, why should I wait for PooryMcPoorman17 to raise the money? This is what I meant by saying, if PK is going to depend on high-end armor/weaps protected by rostos, then PK becomes a rich player's game.

 

EDIT: So let's say all those hoarded rostos go on the market. The first people to buy them will be the PKers with the money. The flood of sales will bring down the price at first, but by the time a poor player gets some money together, the boom will be over and rostos back to being rare harvestables again. So you'll have the same trouble finding them for sale even at the better price.

 

Well unless ALL high end armours/weapons are removed from the game nothing will change.. granted there is nothing to stop poor player A pking in leather , but against rich player B who bought rost's from the shop and wears full tit set .. he doesnt stand a chance.. so player A is not going to bother . true ?

 

edit: and we are trying to get ppl to pk more not less

Edited January 22, 2008 by conavar

[Matty27]

EDIT: You cant possibly be denying that at least fighting, and for a good part, PK is what most items in this game are used towards.

Come now, PK'ing is what everything leads back to... the only cases it doesn't, is the people leveling a/d who are never going to PK, and most people, even if originally they said they'd never PK, they will start if they get to really high a/d.

Err. your edit made the point that it's at least fighting, then try to say everything leads back to PK - doesn't match up to my (admittedly strange) logic

 

Yes if a peaceful harvester wants to keep 10 shiny rost's in storage and never use them thats there choice, a stupid choice imo but there choice none the less, and once again by that logic if an ebul trainer/pker wants to keep 100 EFE in his storage and never use them, thats his right as well isnt it ? , its not hurting anyone ?

If harvesters wish to hoard them so they can protect their CoL in an invasion that they happened to be afk for, then it's their choice - you can think it is stupid all you want, but to the harvester who has saved up the money for CoL it definitely isn't a stupid choice. Or do the high level fighters deserve to find a CoL because harvesters didn't have a rost? Actually, if the harvester is wearing CoL and not carrying rost in an invasion map then the high level fighters do deserve to find the CoL

 

Will they harv an extra 300k lupines ? no of course they wont they will increase the price they sell drops for . 20 gold per bone anyone

People seem to forget EL works best if we all work together , but maybe thats me having the wrong impression about "community"

I wouldn't wish the harvesting of 300k of any flower on anyone - well, maybe people who use BroD on random people rather than just their enemies on NDD

 

I agree with your sentiment that folks working together is the best way of keeping EL working, but wishing for non-PKers to not be holding rostos until the price goes up or they need them is not working with the harvesters.

 

If no pk nothing brakes. If nothing brakes then why would we need manufactures or crafters.

I use them when I am training in the few items of expensive armour I own as I don't want to lose it - SR cooldown gets the trainers too.....

The reason I only have a few items of expensive gear is that the rest was broken by monsters when training.

Monsters break armour and weapons, not just PKers with BroD - fact

[conavar]

 

Yes if a peaceful harvester wants to keep 10 shiny rost's in storage and never use them thats there choice, a stupid choice imo but there choice none the less, and once again by that logic if an ebul trainer/pker wants to keep 100 EFE in his storage and never use them, thats his right as well isnt it ? , its not hurting anyone ?

If harvesters wish to hoard them so they can protect their CoL in an invasion that they happened to be afk for, then it's their choice - you can think it is stupid all you want, but to the harvester who has saved up the money for CoL it definitely isn't a stupid choice. Or do the high level fighters deserve to find a CoL because harvesters didn't have a rost? Actually, if the harvester is wearing CoL and not carrying rost in an invasion map then the high level fighters do deserve to find the CoL

 

 

 

That true but you missed the rest of the paragraph. the point I was trying to make ( and maybe not very well ) is that .. the same people who are saying " yes we dont use rost's and its fine to hoard them" are proberly the same people who would be up in arms if someone was hoarding an item they used alot (efe's,serp stone's etc)

[Ermabwed]

the same people who are saying " yes we dont use rost's and its fine to hoard them" are proberly the same people who would be up in arms if someone was hoarding an item they used alot (efe's,serp stone's etc)

None of those have posted on this thread so far, are you sure they even exist?

[conavar]

the same people who are saying " yes we dont use rost's and its fine to hoard them" are proberly the same people who would be up in arms if someone was hoarding an item they used alot (efe's,serp stone's etc)

None of those have posted on this thread so far, are you sure they even exist?

 

 

read what you quote I said PROBERLY not had Jesus and yes there are plenty of people who complain about efe.serp hoarders just read the forum

[Zamirah]

 

the same people who are saying " yes we dont use rost's and its fine to hoard them" are proberly the same people who would be up in arms if someone was hoarding an item they used alot (efe's,serp stone's etc)

I think it's the same people who hoard rostos and efe's,serp stone's etc.

Some people don't sell anything rare, I did not the first year or more in game.

[peino]

Well unless ALL high end armours/weapons are removed from the game nothing will change.. granted there is nothing to stop poor player A pking in leather , but against rich player B who bought rost's from the shop and wears full tit set .. he doesnt stand a chance.. so player A is not going to bother . true ?

 

edit: and we are trying to get ppl to pk more not less

Yes, it's true, but it's not my problem.

 

I'm always complaining about PKers not leaving PvPers to train in peace in arenas, and most people say that I should just go look for out of the way, empty arenas/maps to PvP in, far away from the DPA 1-hit club. And they are right, even though it's kind of not what I want to hear.

 

Well, I'd say the same goes for poor PKers. If they really can't risk PKing in cheap gear because someone else might have high-end gear, then they should go find some place where rich PKers in great gear never go, so they can fight against other people in cheap gear -- just like PvPers have to go hunting for places to train.

 

It still comes right down to this -- no matter what the price of rostos is, if there are none for sale, you won't be able to get them unless you buy them from the shop. Entropy already said that the number of naturally harvested rostos in game is half the number of rostos used up daily. No matter what anyone does, if you only get your rostos from in-game sources, then you will always find times when you can't get them, for any price. Why? Because they're rare. I don't see what you expect harvesters to do about that. If there are no rostos for sale, then there are no rostos, and PKers have to either do without rostos or do without PK. What other choice is there?

[conavar]

 

I don't see what you expect harvesters to do about that.

 

 

Nothing has been ment to be specifically aimed at harvers , but at all players.. WHY hoard what you dont use/need and that goes for rost's , efe , serp stones, etc etc etc . isnt it better for the whole game that if you dont use an item let someone have it who does ? or is that to much like common sense ?

[bkc56]

Well, I'd say the same goes for poor PKers. If they really can't risk PKing in cheap gear because someone else might have high-end gear, then they should go find some place where rich PKers in great gear never go, so they can fight against other people in cheap gear -- just like PvPers have to go hunting for places to train.

I think this place already exists (no need to hunt). It's Tahraji Desert, and is setup as "old-school PK" (Rostos don't work, etc). That should (in theory) limit the amount of high-end gear being used.

[Khalai]

 

I don't see what you expect harvesters to do about that.

 

 

Nothing has been ment to be specifically aimed at harvers , but at all players.. WHY hoard what you dont use/need and that goes for rost's , efe , serp stones, etc etc etc . isnt it better for the whole game that if you dont use an item let someone have it who does ? or is that to much like common sense ?

 

I agree and you are right conavar, however, you cannot force them any other way to sell those rostogols by increasing buying price I'm afraid And if they don't want to sell, then there is nothing you can do about it...

[Zamirah]

 

Nothing has been ment to be specifically aimed at harvers , but at all players.. WHY hoard what you dont use/need and that goes for rost's , efe , serp stones, etc etc etc . isnt it better for the whole game that if you dont use an item let someone have it who does ? or is that to much like common sense ?

Same reason that you have other items in storage you don't use, like panther fur and other items not used yet.

If you don't need gc and have empty slots, just store it.