Mage class formulas

[ville-v]

Finally! A mage class! Oh wait...I am already a mage...and now there will be more ;-)

Maybe it is time for witch-hunting-contest

[conavar]

hopefully with a mage class the warlocks cape will be tweaked so that it is actually usefull ( apart from for weddings), it maybe could be used to help healing ? and new perks both possitive and negative for a mage build..

 

ie: mage: neg perk : + 8 pp but player cannot wear any armour over aug leathers <<<<< just an example so no

[Raz]

Like many, I have concerns over the formula to be chosen..

 

But credit for tackling the crazy situation at the moment. The restore spell is way to powerful.... I have enjoyed using it but always known it would be disappearing...

[Cycloonx]

I've made a little script to help in this discussion, it calculates the formula for all different kinds of magic/rationality. You can simply add the variable m for magic level and r for rationality. For example: 2*m+r/100. You can also put the url you get after you gave in the formula on the forum to show other people your formula, have fun with it:

 

http://www.mastersofrelics.com/EL/restoration.php

 

Example: http://www.mastersofrelics.com/EL/restorat...ubmit=calculate

Edited December 19, 2007 by Cycloonx

[hades]

ie: mage: neg perk : + 8 pp but player cannot wear any armour over aug leathers <<<<< just an example so no fire.gif

 

I like it

 

 

And nice work Cycloonx.

[Lexi]

I've made a little script to help in this discussion, it calculates the formula for all different kinds of magic/rationality. You can simply add the variable m for magic level and r for rationality. For example: 2*m+r/100. You can also put the url you get after you gave in the formula on the forum to show other people your formula, have fun with it:

 

http://www.mastersofrelics.com/EL/restoration.php

 

Example: http://www.mastersofrelics.com/EL/restorat...ubmit=calculate

 

Wow what i neat little thing!

 

Here's one I have seen that looks "okay".

 

m*1.6+r*2

Magic Level; 20 Rationality; 20 Heal; 72 ( 32 Pick Points Spent)

Magic Level; 40 Rationality; 10 Heal; 96 (12 Pick Points Spent)

Magic Level; 80 Rationality; 4 Heal; 168 (0 Pick Points Spent)

 

EDIT

Out of curiosity, I noticed I spent 40 pp in w/r (W; 24, R; 16) combination, yet I only have 20 rationality, if we start out with 4, shouldn't I have 24 Rationality? -Understand this now, , sorry folks, lol

Edited December 19, 2007 by Lexi

[Cycloonx]

Out of curiosity, I noticed I spent 40 pp in w/r (W; 24, R; 16) combination, yet I only have 20 rationality, if we start out with 4, shouldn't I have 24 Rationality?

 

40pp - 8pp (the one you started with) = 32pp, for each 2pp you get 1 rationality, so from 32pp you get 16 rationality (+4 from the start makes 20 in total).

[Lexi]

okay, thanks that's right since w/r also had 4, sorry I am not thinking today :/

[robotbob]

hopefully with a mage class the warlocks cape will be tweaked so that it is actually usefull ( apart from for weddings), it maybe could be used to help healing ? and new perks both possitive and negative for a mage build..

 

ie: mage: neg perk : + 8 pp but player cannot wear any armour over aug leathers <<<<< just an example so no

 

I assume a 'mage' cannot wear full plate armor anyway? Or being able to both wield a sword and cast?

Prior we had the battle-mage, but if we are making a mage class.

 

Will there be a magic penalty for dressing like a fighter while casting spells now?

[hades]

Will there be a magic penalty for dressing like a fighter while casting spells now?

 

First penalty i see is in carry capacity cuz a mage in theory has less EMU then a fighter.

 

There could be a negative effect in Steel, Tit and dragon armor that would reduce x points to magic.

 

But best option imo and is already in suggestions is to create thru Tailor skill some special clothes for mages.

[Entropy]

There will be no penalty for mages wearing armor, other than the lower EMU and the fact that they won't be able to use it anyway (a mage can't fight hand to hand with a fighter anyway).

Cycloonx: nice formula calculator, thanks.

[masterpiter]

There will be no penalty for mages wearing armor, other than the lower EMU and the fact that they won't be able to use it anyway (a mage can't fight hand to hand with a fighter anyway).

Can u do a simulation of a fight 1on1 mage( full p/c/will/reas) vs a tank(full p/c/inst/vit)?

Imho a mage will win even if he doesnt cast any offensive spells simply coz he can restore big amounts of health and fighter cant.

 

A mage with full rationality has also maxed out reasoning which makes him able to hit his opponent often even if his enemy has maxed out instinct.

 

I dunno if that could help but would it be possible to use ur maximum ethereal points amount to calculate ur spell power(so also a restore), instead of rationality?

 

mp

[Entropy]

We'll do some simulations on the test server tomorrow or maybe even today.

But everything else being equal, I'd bet my money on the tank.

 

BTW, here is how I see the tank class:

Max vit, phy, coo, will, and the following perks:

NMT (so you won't ruin stuff)

Evanescence

Mirror skin

 

With the mention that vit might be swapped for instinct, depending on the preference.

[masterpiter]

Looking forward to do some simulations

[Zamirah]

How will pots work after the changes ?

If I have 48 coord, I guess coord pots don't give extra ?

[Entropy]

You also have to keep in mind that the tank will also be able to heal, just not as much as the mage.

 

Anyway, I am considering going with the first formula, it seems that more people like it.

In fact, I am willing to make a compromise and give more health like this:

heal=magic*2+rationality*5

 

http://www.mastersofrelics.com/EL/restorat...ubmit=calculate

 

How will pots work after the changes ?

If I have 48 coord, I guess coord pots don't give extra ?

 

They will.

[Zamirah]

Starting to make reasoning pots

[TooMass]

so if i use a coord pot(phys pot w/e) and i have 48 coord(phys etc) already, will it temporary go to 53?

probably it was already answered but i wanna be 100% sure about this:)

Edited December 19, 2007 by TooMass

[TirunCollimdus]

And now lets check the "Tank build".

Phys/coord/vit/inst maxed out. 130 health points. Yeti will deal u ~ 45 max dmg , and still pretty often, more often that fluffies when u were 40a/d less.

Since u get so much dmg u need to restore at 80 health. So restoring to ur full natural health gives u only 50 points restore( only little more than single max dmg blow u receive).

 

Now lets check if CoL helps, with CoL u have 280 health points but is ur restore so much better?

Having maxed out p/c/vit/isnt leaves very little or noone pikcpoints for will/reasoning, so ur rationality is low.

No matter if u r magic 60 or magic 100 u still will be restoring very little health.

At low rationality and even at magic lvl 100( curerently 1 person ingame reached it) u restore 18 health more compared to not using a CoL. ( so if u restore from 80 hp u got 68 points restore, while fighting a mob that deals u over 45 max dmg )

 

So a "tank", that still receives over 45 dmg on pk and yetis, and probably 70-90 on dragons, has very little healing possibilities.

As i pointed out the real healing power even at magic 100 will be less from newbies with 21 magic lvl.

 

(i hope its readable but not sure )

 

mp

 

I think this is the perfect example of a tank for the coming cap and I believe Entropy's solution to this problem is using the stackable BRs with the reduced cooldown. I think that is an excellent strategy. It costs more to heal and fight while training but if you are fighting yetis you can afford it right? Not sure it would be cost effective with dragons but I was under the impression fighting them was not profitable anyway. Sounds like problem solved to me. Go mages.

 

TirunCollimdus

 

Yes, 390hp with col, but show me some fighter/tank who has WILL 48 lol, no1 has and no1 will take so much unless he is forced to do so coz of restoring

Im not telling what is good or bad, just showing to Devs and to players possible outcomes how character builds might look like , thats all.

<quick edit>

.

Wouldn't a tank max out phys/will/vit (for max health and max toughness)?

No, coz he would get no def and no attack xp( empty blocks+no hits)

Any1 remember Dust and her p160+? She did #kill_me some time ago, coz 0 xp and bad drops for her, after the change of high lvl mobs that was needed in the summer when luciferx got strong coz of negz+ many bought pickpoints

 

mp

 

Wonder if Entropy could recover her character? It is a shame she did kill me yes. The cap would fix her character without a reset. That would have been awesome for her.

 

TirunCollimdus

[Entropy]

so if i use a coord pot(phys pot w/e) and i have 48 coord(phys etc) already, will it temporary go to 53?

probably it was already answered but i wanna be 100% sure about this:)

 

Yes

 

Wonder if Entropy could recover her character? It is a shame she did kill me yes. The cap would fix her character without a reset. That would have been awesome for her.

 

TirunCollimdus

 

If she pays the fee, sure. But she will lose all the items.

[BlackFalcon]

Hi there,

 

In my opinion (Magic)*1+(Rationality)*2) = Boss.

 

Magic will increase as the character grows stronger, as the character grows stronger the pick points are increasingly hard to get. I think that the pick points will be considered to be worth more then a few magic levels (right now its the same with a/d) so pick points should have a greater effect on the healing powers of the character.

 

This would mean that someone with a lower magic level could easily increase his/her magic abilities by spending pick points (because they are still easy to get at lower levels). Then this character would have a 'mage build'. The 'mage build' would only exist if the bonuses from spend pp's are big enough.

 

In other formula's posted i see something similar (= (Magic)*2+(Rationality)*5) =) but this would result in nearly the same healing abilities as the full restoration as it is now..

 

I like the idea where the caster would not be able to restore his/her full health when wearing CoL (or when just having Phys really high).

 

As a result of whatever formula will be used the overall players strength decreases. I'm not sure about the importance of p/c against a/d but it seems pretty important. If p/c is more important then a/d in PvP then as a result of this update the players will be more equal to each other (along with the attribute cap you can be sure of this anyway )(<- good).

 

 

my 50 EuroCents.

 

 

EDIT:

 

Just a note, the MINIMUM level REQUIRED to cast this particular spell is 21.. that does not mean it succeeds often (we all knew that..) But why would it mean that the caster instantly gains the ability to recover its full health?

Edited December 19, 2007 by BlackFalcon

[conavar]

.

 

In other formula's posted i see something similar (= (Magic)*2+(Rationality)*5) =) but this would result in nearly the same healing abilities as the full restoration as it is now..

 

 

not the case . at the moment with COL + MOL I have 305hp and can heal them all , under that formula I would only heal 135hp , so less than half.. but not so low as to be crippling

[bkc56]

heal=magic*2+rationality*5

This is clearly better than the magic*1.5 as there's more reward for a higher magic level. And if that isn't enough for you, you "buy" more by adding PPs to build rationality.

 

Will this formula include or exclude the idea that a restore would always heal your natural health?

[Entropy]

The natural health idea is scraped now.

Anyway, with this spell modified liek this, we'll be able to have even higher life giver items (so you can maybe go up to 1K life, but will be expensive and break often).

 

Of course, if I do that and someone complains that the restoration should be adjusted to give them full life, I'll ban that person.

[BlackFalcon]

 

not the case . at the moment with COL + MOL I have 305hp and can heal them all , under that formula I would only heal 135hp , so less than half.. but not so low as to be crippling

 

Ah crap I made a mistake

Filled in Mage as Rationality and the other way round..

 

Lets just say the (M)*2+(Rat)*5 is good enough for higher leveled players (with CoL).. (bit too much healing if you ask me (with decent Rationality), without CoL its still nearly full restore)

(M)*1.5+(Rat)*3 Seems pretty reasonable, comes down to complete healing when no CoL/MoL is used and the character has sufficient Rationality.. (forces the players to take at least some rationality and not totally depend on their high magic levels)

 

 

 

Oh btw:

As some others suggested that the magic nexus may be used in the formula for magic: Perhaps there could be a (rather small) effect of this nexus on the magic abilities, or a specific nexus required to cast a spell. This would mean that crafters who require this nexus to craft their goods will gain something vs. the fighters. If this nexus increases the strength of magic abilities fighters may want to consider crafting themselves since the pp's required wont be a total waste. Gives the all-rounder a little advantage towards hardcore-fighters.

Edited December 19, 2007 by BlackFalcon