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Ateh

Global Warming

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Well folks, have a read of this article, there are many many things like it around, but its a good taster to get you into the idea that perhaps whats going on with Global Warming on Earth is happening on every other planet too.

 

Perhaps were making the Earth so hot we are also warming all the other planets up to ?

 

Or maybe theres a thing called '' The Sun '' that warms our solar system up ? Hmmm ...

 

Have a read and enjoy finding out more if it inspires you ........

 

http://motls.blogspot.com/2006/05/global-w...on-jupiter.html

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Well folks, have a read of this article, there are many many things like it around, but its a good taster to get you into the idea that perhaps whats going on with Global Warming on Earth is happening on every other planet too.

 

Perhaps were making the Earth so hot we are also warming all the other planets up to ?

 

Or maybe theres a thing called '' The Sun '' that warms our solar system up ? Hmmm ...

 

Have a read and enjoy finding out more if it inspires you ........

 

http://motls.blogspot.com/2006/05/global-w...on-jupiter.html

Thank you. maybe some people will come to realize that global warming is a natural stage our planet goes through, and we are not causing it. I'm so fed up with Al Gore and his BS.

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Well folks, have a read of this article, there are many many things like it around, but its a good taster to get you into the idea that perhaps whats going on with Global Warming on Earth is happening on every other planet too.

 

Perhaps were making the Earth so hot we are also warming all the other planets up to ?

 

Or maybe theres a thing called '' The Sun '' that warms our solar system up ? Hmmm ...

 

Have a read and enjoy finding out more if it inspires you ........

 

http://motls.blogspot.com/2006/05/global-w...on-jupiter.html

Thank you. maybe some people will come to realize that global warming is a natural stage our planet goes through, and we are not causing it. I'm so fed up with Al Gore and his BS.

 

 

:):icon13::icon13:

Well said

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Well folks, have a read of this article, there are many many things like it around, but its a good taster to get you into the idea that perhaps whats going on with Global Warming on Earth is happening on every other planet too.

 

Perhaps were making the Earth so hot we are also warming all the other planets up to ?

 

Or maybe theres a thing called '' The Sun '' that warms our solar system up ? Hmmm ...

 

Have a read and enjoy finding out more if it inspires you ........

 

http://motls.blogspot.com/2006/05/global-w...on-jupiter.html

Thank you. maybe some people will come to realize that global warming is a natural stage our planet goes through, and we are not causing it. I'm so fed up with Al Gore and his BS.

 

Im with you guys on this! Screw al gore! but i still think we should find other sources of energy that are more distributed and more natural. All kinds of pollution need to stop, but scaring people with propoganda is not the way to do it!

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Wow, now I believe that bread can create forum accounts and post (and blog too) :D

 

How to talk to a Climate Skeptic. Addresses the problem of other planets warming too here.

 

 

Ok so if your a skeptic on this that is your chioce read the real facts you can find from all side of this and come up with your own thoughts

 

I agree as a group of people we are waistful gluttons for power and all the toys we can have. But trying to frightin people into fixing things will never work. Al's movie has so many false statments and half truths that it is now required to have a disclamer played befor it is viewed in some countrys.

 

There are to lots of things that fit and lots that don't for both sides

 

simple things like in the northern part of north Amarica it has been covered with ice for as long as records state now that it has melted somewhat wow there are Tree stumps under it. So are we just going through a slow cycle that is normal or how did Trees get under the ice

 

To me there is no way to say who is correct But I will say Al is using this as a tool for his benifit not the worlds

 

FireBalls

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Wow, now I believe that bread can create forum accounts and post (and blog too) :(

 

How to talk to a Climate Skeptic. Addresses the problem of other planets warming too here.

 

 

Ok so if your a skeptic on this that is your chioce read the real facts you can find from all side of this and come up with your own thoughts

Actually I'm not the skeptic here :) and I linked you to the real facts (see below too). Of course, it's scientifically known that people only accept what fits best into their belief system, so even if you read the link above you might still believe the "it's happening on other planets too" crap, but on a rational level you should know better :)

I agree as a group of people we are waistful gluttons for power and all the toys we can have. But trying to frightin people into fixing things will never work. Al's movie has so many false statments and half truths that it is now required to have a disclamer played befor it is viewed in some countrys.

The reality of global warming is independent of Al Gore (if you neglect the minor impact every single human being has on it).

"so many", really. Well, I've never seen the movie and it looks like you enjoyed the skeptics' propaganda about it more, because if you actually had read details of the only court ruling regarding the disclaimer you talk about, you'd known you're talking about nine "errors" in a "broadly accurate" film and some of them are actually only due to the presentation.

There are to lots of things that fit and lots that don't for both sides

No. Actually, there are lots of things that fit in favor of global warming and lots of things that don't fit contrary to it.

simple things like in the northern part of north Amarica it has been covered with ice for as long as records state now that it has melted somewhat wow there are Tree stumps under it. So are we just going through a slow cycle that is normal or how did Trees get under the ice

The "it's all part of a natural cycle" argument is rebuted on the site I linked to in my post above. Oh and read the article on "Greenland used to be green" while you are there :)

To me there is no way to say who is correct But I will say Al is using this as a tool for his benifit not the worlds

Actually it's obvious, but you are simply closing your eyes to the facts. And regarding Mr. Gore, ever heard of "don't shoot the messenger"? I'll repeat myself: The reality of global warming is independent of Al Gore.

But maybe you prefer the IPPC fourth assessment report to tell you the scientific facts and projections (maybe start with the executive summary in chapter 10 and then read chapter 11, pages 887 and following deal with North America). But as I mentioned above, if the facts don't fit the belief system it's hard to accept them and easier to come delude oneself with insubstantial arguments. So, I won't blame you if you prefer to stay ignorant but please spare me of the bits of crap you picked up somewhere to justify your ignorance. Thanks. :P

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Erma , totally understand that there are more than just a few views about global warming, but hey just for the record heres another '' bit of crap '' i picked up off the internet , its from National Geographic :

 

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/20...rs-warming.html

 

So, yes, I agree that as a planet we need to seriously think about sustaining our world and not raping it for resources that are ultimately finite.

 

Im sure if the people who run this world really give two ***** they will do something about it.

 

And by that i dont mean make a documentary.

 

Hope you enjoy looking at National Geographics ''bit of crap'' that they managed to pick up somewhere.

 

Peace ( and sustainable energy sources )

 

P.S This site likes to tear the IPPC a new one now and again, as he believes , as do many others, that they do such things as use a scientists name to back up thier claims who has since left the IPPC because he thaught they were full of ****. Its interesting to note how many ''scientists'' are actually IN the IPPC. Also, its interesting to note how the IPPC completely denied the events of the last mini ice age, they said it didnt happen , and drew a nice graph to prove it. But the mini ice age DID happen , and happened at exactly the point they said it didnt. Could they be producing fraudulent information ? No !! We never get lied to about things !!!

 

http://www.warwickhughes.com/blog/?p=41

 

* edit * added the P.S

Edited by Ateh

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Personally, I think Global Warming is just part of earth's natural cycle.

I don't feel like reading the articles, I don't doubt it has some good information.

 

My 2 biased cents.

:D

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Is it possible we're actually saving ourself from an ice age by warming the planet? As I understand it, we're entering a 100k year cycle where the earth starts a more eliptical orbit than we've been experiencing. Normally, this is when we enter an ice age. And, as I understand it, that would be quite devistating to our lives as we know it. However, we seem to be warming the planet at the same time it should be entering this cooling period. Could it be that our foolishness may actually be our saving grace?

 

It would be ironic to find out that us warming the planet staves off the impending ice age.

Edited by Josi

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@saint & Josi: you guys are simply ignorant. I heard it say "ignorance is bliss", if that's true you must be having the most wonderful time. :D

 

@ateh: did you actually read the national geographic article? The passages that basically said the guy they were quoting was a moron (in friendlier terms)? Besides the fact, that the guy uses the very same argument that was done for in my first reply. If you had read the article you'd have noticed an explanation without the flaws of the one you're trying to sell here. So, yes, that NG article is not crap (and I never said it was) but it's by no means in support of the crap you're trying to sell either.

The IPCC compiles their reports from independent studies, using a wide range of models etc., then a bunch of politicians has to agree with it. I bet more scientists get frustrated by negotiating the report down to something politicians can agree to than the rest of their work. Without the political part I bet the reports would be a lot more drastic and in your face than they are now :) Anyways, trying to discredit IPCC doesn't make the facts go away :)

On that blog you linked to and the mini ice age, perhaps you noticed that it makes a lot of claims without any back up, has no links to external evidence, doesn't discuss what and how the situation would change if the so called frauds were rectified (because the site's purpose isn't education but propaganda and possibly because 'corrected' data would lead to the same results :)), is outdated and populist. In short, it's not able to support your argument (because if somebody said that sexual abuse was good for children, because they saw someone interpreting some data differently and spotted a mistake in their 1k pages psychology handbook, and you were a pervert, nobody would accept that as exculpatory evidence either).

And again, stay ignorant if you prefer but if you want to argue on this topic you'll have to come up with reliable sources, etc. (Try sources were the flaws aren't so easy to spot ;))

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I would like to state 2 things that really cannot be argued if you understand the scientific theory behind it and the research gone into it.

 

1. There is global warming. So the other planets in our galaxy have it to. But seeing that we do not live on the other planets, then there is some concern. Reducing the way we use things, we can reduce some of these causes. But nothing can stop it completely. There have been ways to reduce some of this years ago, but the lobbiests for the big businesses in the US prevented some of this from taking place as they were promoting their products and the US cares more for money than the enviroment (for those that dont believe that, look at all the natural resource funding get cut every year to support whatever is the newest fad or that those working in the field of natural resources getting paid lower than you get paid working at Walmart).

However, still there is a global warming. No we are not getting close to an ice age, we are looking at the opposite.

 

I said there were 2 things that cannot be argued. Ok, here it is. Al Gore is an idiot. He always has been.

Back in the 1990's when he was going to be re-elected to the second term of the white house, a guy wrote to him from Texas about the "silver eagle" that was going to be killed. Al Gore replied that he was concerned with all wildlife and the eagle was a national symbol. He would do everything in his power to stop the killing of these birds. However, the Silver Eagle was not a bird. It was a fast-nonstop Amtrak train that ran from Texas to Washington, DC. Ever since then, I have not paid any attention to Al Gore.

 

Edit: By the way, I am a wildlife biologist in real life and have researched much of this. This is not just me jumping on a bandwagon of something I know nothing about.

Edited by Sheesh

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@saint & Josi: you guys are simply ignorant. I heard it say "ignorance is bliss", if that's true you must be having the most wonderful time. :(

 

Before you call people blissful, make sure you have all the facts.

http://www.livescience.com/environment/050...earth_tilt.html

 

Read this carefully. To quote a very familiar voice "for once in your life." It clearly states that earth is heading towards another iceage period, based on it's orbit and tilt (not to mention the fact that this is based on mathmatical models that are many years old and have be hashed and rehashed by numerous experts over the years.) Now, I'm not disputing the fact that we're warming the earth, I'm just stating the facts I know.

 

If you want to back your statement up with facts, I'd be happy to hear them....

 

Maybe you're the "blissful" one who just flaps the mouth and calls people names without any facts or basis. I guess ignorant is as ignorant does.

 

And while you're digesting that, please read these...

http://www.whoi.edu/page.do?pid=12455&...2&cid=10046

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/3...ld_prevent.html

Edited by Josi

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Ok, so your point is, you are not blissful but off topic. In other words blissfully ignorant of the topic. Thanks for sharing that :(

 

(I take it from your post that you should be able to see why that is the case :blink:)

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Ok, so your point is, you are not blissful but off topic. In other words blissfully ignorant of the topic. Thanks for sharing that :(

 

(I take it from your post that you should be able to see why that is the case :blink:)

Your reply makes no sense (pretty much like the rest of your replies) so I won't even bother arguing the point with you any more.

 

Topic name: GLOBAL WARMING or solar system warming and not "flame anyone that doesn't agree with my biased point of view". My posts directly address that issue. Once again, ignorant is as ignorant does.

Edited by Josi

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Its obvious that there is global warming, it cant be denied, of course it cant.

 

Perhaps a better aproach to informing us that we are messing the planets eco system up would be to offer into the public stage, not endless storys about death and the end of the world, but instead solutions.

 

And by solutions i do NOT mean a carbon tax.

 

Because I for one am completely unable to see how a tax on carbon emissions is going to save the planet.

 

It will take a few more dollars out of our pockets for sure, but that isnt going to save the planet is it ?

 

Instead, wouldnt it be a good idea to start building the infrastrucutre for renewable energy ? Surely it is worth setting up now, instead of waiting another 20-25 years. We could be building hydro electric systems on the coasts, we could be building huge wind farms, we could be bringing about legislation that would make it a legal requirement to add solar panels to every new building that is aproved for building.

 

We could be looking at alternative methods of creating electricity. One example of this is Tesla, and I know that Erma is probably going to rip me a new one for even mentioning Tesla, but just go out and have a look at what he was doing before and at the turn of the LAST century ( 1800-1900 ).

 

During the second world war alot of the U Boats - which were absolutely devestating in effect, ran on a magnet. They didnt burn fule like anyone elses boats/submarines. They were powered by a magnet, basically in laymans terms you charge the magnet at port and off it goes.

 

Why are the powers that be ( THEY - The Heirarchy Enslaving You ) not offering solutions other than a tax, or a cap on emmissions. Its absolute nonsense, a tax is not going to stop the use of these carbon monsters, it will just line the coffers of THEM ( The Heirarchy Enslaving Mankind ).

 

I want to see investment in renewable energy sources, investment in looking for alternatives to burning fossil fuels. The answers are there looking us right in the face, and yet instead, we are drawn into a long and pretty boring argument about whos right.

 

Guess what ? were all right , and were all wrong !! We are all right because we all see the need for taking some action and responsibility for our position on this planet and how we treat it.

 

We are all wrong because instead of looking for a solution, we are arguing over the question.

 

Peace

 

 

*edit* grammar and spelling

Edited by Ateh

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Even if we couldn't stop global warming (or cooling), your suggestions have merit. By trying to solve that problem, we'd surely solve many of the other problems plauging the world (if only by proving that we can).

 

There's no reason we shouldn't take steps to reduce waste and pollution. Alternative methods of energy would at least take away the fears that we're going to run out (of fossil fuels) as well as eliminate the use of energy as a BIG CHIP in the card game of world diplomacy.

 

If we had reusable, non-poluting forms of energy, every country could, at least, concentrate on other issues that need to be addressed instead of worrying about how the price of energy is affecting their, and the world's economy.

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Being an avid researcher of physics topics and such, I must say that I do agree with the idea that it is a natural cycle - although we still do have a large problem with excess CO2 in our atmosphere. It would be an extremely good idea to go the way we're going with reusable energy, etc.

 

If we continue the way we're currently going, the ozone will be eaten up rather quickly. And yes, that is an issue.

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Guest MacNathan

I believe that most of this discussion is not cognissant of one important fact. Fossil fuel supplies are finite.

 

In addition, if we really want to slow down global warming due to green house gas heat absorption what we really need to do is to seed the upper atmosphere with carbon black (which is non-toxic) or some other non-toxic particulate material. The particulate matter in the atmosphere will reflect the sunlight which will counter the affect of the greenhouse gases. (of couse we would all have to wear respirators from now on :) ) Personally, I'd rather see what happens when the fuel runs out but, fortunately, I will have long expired by then :P

 

I guess that this all really boils down to which pack of data crunchers is correct..either way i think that the problem exists between the chair and the keyboard :mace:

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Houses are made of bricks and Science is made of facts

 

but a pile of bricks does not make a house, and a group of facts does not make science.

 

there is no set of facts that conclusively construct science that proves or disproves global warming, but perhaps rather then arguing about whether al gore is a duchebag, we should concentrate on what we can move forward with based on our agreement of the key facts.

 

Pollution is bad

Burning oil for all of our energy is bad

Oil will not last forever

 

THESE facts DO construct something, a consensus that we should change. Lets instead argue about WHAT those changes should be, and how they should be implemented.

 

I propose adding a component to every home:

a solar panel that pulls energy from the sun to change water from our well into hydrogen and oxygen.

 

The oxygen should be released into the air, and the hydrogen should be stored in a solid state in some type of container.

 

When energy is needed, the solid hydrogen undergoes a process for releasing it, then it is either burned, or passed thru plates where it re-combines with oxygen (a standard fuel cell).

 

Already companies have developed technology to store hydrogen in a solid state, it's CLEARLY the safest way to store it, because pure hydrogen in a tank is NOT SAFE and solid state hydrogen is not explosive according to the companies that have developed it.

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just saying i got some rerly dodgey things asking me to update stuf and dounlode this and that when i clicked on the link (one of those things that wont let you click of it and wont go away) even with pop up blockers and stuff :/

 

this sort of stuf webthingtx6.png:(

 

<EDIT> didnt happen 2nd time

Edited by thelethalmoo

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Ok, here goes....

 

We can neither say fact or fiction to the point that the human race is causing global warming. We can on the other hand say that 1. We do use oil to energize the world and 2. We have the means to change that in a fair amount of time. Global warming is an issue that affects all people and creatures alike. I did a google search and found some interesting facts I will copy and paste here.

 

Arctic ice is rapidly disappearing, and the region may have its first completely ice-free summer by 2040 or earlier. Polar bears and indigenous cultures are already suffering from the sea-ice loss.

 

Glaciers and mountain snows are rapidly melting—for example, Montana's Glacier National Park now has only 27 glaciers, versus 150 in 1910. In the Northern Hemisphere, thaws also come a week earlier in spring and freezes begin a week later.

 

Coral reefs, which are highly sensitive to small changes in water temperature, suffered the worst bleaching—or die-off in response to stress—ever recorded in 1998, with some areas seeing bleach rates of 70 percent. Experts expect these sorts of events to increase in frequency and intensity in the next 50 years as sea temperatures rise.

 

The report, based on the work of some 2,500 scientists in more than 130 countries, concluded that humans have caused all or most of the current planetary warming. Human-caused global warming is often called anthropogenic climate change.

 

Industrialization, deforestation, and pollution have greatly increased atmospheric concentrations of water vapor, carbon dioxide, methane, and nitrous oxide, all greenhouse gases that help trap heat near Earth's surface.

 

Humans are pouring carbon dioxide into the atmosphere much faster than plants and oceans can absorb it.

 

 

So the way I look at it is if 2500 scientists say that humans have caused planetary warming then I beleive them. Science has proved many things that most people agree to some extent with. The fact that we as humans are putting all these greenhouse gasses into the atmosphere is enough for me to think that maybe there is validity into what is happening with the world.

 

Some people can be skeptical as to if this is true, but instead of trying to guess about it, why not help decrease the causes of greenhouse gasses and do small things that matter like recycling, carpooling, using less fossil fuels etc etc....

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just wanted to make the point that refering to petroleum as "fossil fuel" is archaic and theoretical at best. there are over 3 trillion barrels of proven reserves, (petroleum that we know exists). 1 barrel = roughly 55 gallons. thats 27500 gallons of fuels per person, that we know of. I know we are taught that oil came from decomposed dinosaurs, but there is no proof of that, its just a theory. I have a theory too, that pertoleum is a non-biological way the planet stores energy, a geological blood of sorts, and we really have no idea the consequences, aside for increased CO2 in the atmosphere and the side effects of that. Analogous to a mosquito sucking blood witch no idea the consequence of a hand 5 thousand times its size coming to smash it. Just a thought

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I believe that most of this discussion is not cognissant of one important fact. Fossil fuel supplies are finite.

 

Finitive at the current rate of consumption/production/call it whatever you like...but actually fossil fuels are product of geological "cycle" of the organic material...so basicly there will always be petroleum, gas, coal... just not in the same quantities...afterall, the oil we use today took over mil years to form - well, it depends from geological structure of the ground, and the time of sedimentation of the material...so now you have petroleums that are around 60 mil years "old" in some parts of the world (like Alberta), and some that are maybe 1 mil. years old in "younger" sediments like in Romania, or Hungary.

 

just wanted to make the point that refering to petroleum as "fossil fuel" is archaic and theoretical at best. there are over 3 trillion barrels of proven reserves, (petroleum that we know exists). 1 barrel = roughly 55 gallons. thats 27500 gallons of fuels per person, that we know of. I know we are taught that oil came from decomposed dinosaurs, but there is no proof of that, its just a theory. I have a theory too, that pertoleum is a non-biological way the planet stores energy, a geological blood of sorts, and we really have no idea the consequences, aside for increased CO2 in the atmosphere and the side effects of that. Analogous to a mosquito sucking blood witch no idea the consequence of a hand 5 thousand times its size coming to smash it. Just a thought

 

Well, sorry to disappoint you, but abiogenic theory with petroleum is less likely then creation of human race trough cloning or w/e...and no dinosaur bones either :D since then there wouldn't be enough oil in the world to supply one car with fuel in a time of one year (well...maybe little exaggerated, but I hope you get my point)... Well, the most likely way the oil formed (well, atleast the teach this "theory" - and I study petroleum engineering) was formed from Zooplankton and Algae, and basiclly it is found where is believed that there were seas in geological history.

 

And about those 3 trillion barrels of proven reserves - well, with currenty used methods it can be extracted about 40% of it and over some period of time (depends on when production started, but mostly for one reservoir - if it was done right - it's the period of 20 - 30 years), because in oil production "strip mining" would just damage rock formations that contains oil so overall production rate could fall way down to aprox 20% of proven reserves....probably in the future with use of new extraction methods more oil would be possible to get , but only when price of oil goes up, because at this time it's just not worth it for the companies to try new methods since in old reservoirs production is too low for these kind of investments, and with newer reservoirs it's just not necessary, because production is high and costs are relativly low.

 

And as far as global warming is concerned...it's not the cause for it that's important - the 2 questions are: "Can we "fight" it?" and "How?"

 

Skod the CooK

 

P.S. my english suxx but i hope u understood what i was trying to say

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All in all, the levels of CO2 and methane in atmosphere are high, and getting constantly higher. These can be directly attributed to humans burning fuel, doing intensive farming (ye big farms pollute a lot), and so on.

 

However, is this emission of gases and increased level of them the cause of global warming? No one can answer that I think. These can have influence, but no one knows how big so far. There have been tropical ages (dinosaurs) and ice ages on the planet, some of the fluctuation is natural.

 

Anyway, I believe we should try to limit the amount of damage we deal to our planet, like cutting less forests and so on. Many life species are extinct or getting extinct because of our activities, the planet is getting boring :D

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