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Update in November

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I would like to have the next update somewhere in November. This means that we should have a feature freeze by 15th of October.

 

The only thing I REALLY want in the client by then is the landmines stuff. That will also include some special effects (explosion, blood (for caltrops), mana drain, and possibly others). Roja should finish the 3d objects for the landmines relatively soon.

From what I understand, the client can display them right now, but we'll still need more testing.

 

I would also like the new sound system to be included if possible, but only if there are no critical bugs with it, such as client crashes.

 

Now it would also be a good time to post here what you are working at, and if you think you can get it ready by October 15, so we can see what things to focus on.

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Well it seems I'm the developer for both the requested features of the November release.

 

I have been waiting for the next step for mines. I haven't really looked creating different eye candy effects as the code looks very complex and I was putting it off. For testing purposes the bag remove and mother nature eye candy has been used (iirc).

 

I have since then revisited the NEW_SOUND code as I had time to devote to learning more about it, so as to expand and debug it, and get it to a stable point for release. There is still a way to go, but most of the features are in. There is still debugging work to be done, and as I don't understand the problems just yet, I can't estimate a timeframe, however I don't expect it to be drastic.

 

RL has just started to get a little turbulent as I've started some weekend work, and the possibility of more weekday work sometime soon. Given the 7 week deadline, I believe I have time to get NEW_SOUND to a satisfactory state for inclusion in the client.

 

Given my current understanding of NEW_SOUND, and my lack of current understanding of the eye candy particle code, I don't really want to spend time learning that code to produce effects for the mines. I'm happy to implement the rest of the mines code with any additional nessessary hooks to eye candy, but I would prefer someone else develop the effects.

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With regards to producing new eye candy effects, the processing code exists, so all it needs is someone (anyone interested.. not ness a dev) to look at the various examples for the other effects and change values here and there to create new shapes and timing etc to create different explosions or whatever effects nessessary. If anyone is keen, please look into it!!

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OS X development here as always. RL (and my triathlon training) have been keeping me busy lately. My race is on September 23, so I should have more time to devote to EL after that. I imagine that with Florian's help, we can get the OS X client in shape for a November release.

 

If all the ingredients that you want for 1.5 are currently present, why not feature freeze right now? This would give us more time to work out current issues and not have to worry about random new code appearing.

 

BTW, it might be helpful to include in the first post links to all the goings on for 1.5. New model thread, landmine thread, sounds thread ....

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I don't think a feature freeze would help very much right now. We don't have a lot of really new stuff in the client anyway, not like the new particle system.

 

Torg: You can focus on the sound system for at least another 2 weeks, when I will start working again at the mine code. Since most of the mone code is already done on the client, it shouldn't need much more additional work.

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Well, the notepad's now stable and rerasonably useful, so that can go in :D

 

I'm currently working on the separation of rooms on inside maps, that's nearly finished. After that, I plan to start working on the Pawn scripts again. To get reliable dynamics on the maps, we need to replace the current bbox tree with something more efficient. I believe Xaphier has some ideas about that (and even better: code), so I'll contact him and see if we can integrate that into the client. I think this may be a somewhat invasive change, so I'm not sure how much time it'll take to get that into a working state.

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I guess I should post progress on my projects, in comparison to New client roadmap (1.5.0)

NEW_WEATHER has been pretty much done since a few months before 1.4, but without server support it's not as well tested as it should be.

the MINIMAP works as long as you don't use zoom. IIRC the current version in CVS has an above-others button, which I replaced in my local tree with minimise-to-hud, which I didn't get working properly at all. Removing the zoom and minimise buttons may make it ready for the update, allowing those to be finished at some other time.

The skybox/etc from Emajekral is reasonably cleaned up, but still unfinished. So not ready (despite all the people who have said how cool it would be, first person view is not, IMO, very useful... You can look up at the sky and all, so it's nice for looking around, but not for actually playing. It also accentuates the graphical issues that are, to a lesser degree, present with 3rd person view).

Centralised file handling and use of ~ on windows works, although I did talk with Xaphier a while ago about some changes to how it looks for files (those changes have not been made by either of us)

Nothing happened with the recolouring.

time warnings have been working well for a while. Servers.lst was not done. #url list and a window of links works, although I think it'd be good for it to have a HUD button as well. #bug did not happen.

If anyone wants to pick up on the unfinished stuff I'll help them out, but I haven't even been playing EL for a while, let alone doing any dev work. I don't see that changing much soon. Minor bugs and adjustments to stuff like weather protocol handlers/constants (like fog level) I'll do, but not large feature work.

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Actually, the sky stuff is very close to being done(it can use more "beauty" tweaks but that can be for the future). I was hoping that a couple things can be fixed and have it put into this update. I don't think they're hard things to fix:

http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.p...043&st=100#

 

ttlanhil, like I said in the specific thread, NEW_WEATHER conflicts with the sky stuff. Also so far I have not even seen an improvement over the rain or anythign when using new_weather. Except for the fact that it can now do snow and sand(which I have yet to see).

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I don't think a feature freeze would help very much right now. We don't have a lot of really new stuff in the client anyway, not like the new particle system.
I agree.

 

I believe there are still some things that would be considered "new" features by Learner or Ent (based on past experience), that I am planning on adding, as well as leaving things open for minor patches people might come up with. I don't see any benefit to freezing now, compared to in a month or 2's time.

 

Torg: You can focus on the sound system for at least another 2 weeks, when I will start working again at the mine code. Since most of the mone code is already done on the client, it shouldn't need much more additional work.
Shall do. I'll see how much I can get done this week. I want to have the features finished this week, but the demands on my time are rather random at the moment. Once I'm happy with the feature-set for this release, it will enable the map makers, and others, to work on the config without fear of the format changing. Once that occurs, we can start full-scale testing prior to freeze and release.

 

Except for the fact that it can now do snow and sand(which I have yet to see).
As has been mentioned, the different types of weather (snow, rain etc) require server support to specify which type of weather to display. To test this without the server support (ie, now), you need to change a value in the code (before compiling) to trick the system into displaying something other than rain. The change is very simple however, and instructions are in the NEW_WEATHER thread iirc.

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Actually, the sky stuff is very close to being done(it can use more "beauty" tweaks but that can be for the future).
No, it's not. It still has a number of bugs that I know of (and probably some I don't). My list is below.
I was hoping that a couple things can be fixed and have it put into this update. I don't think they're hard things to fix:

http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.p...043&st=100#

Some of the remaining bugs/todos are easy, some would require a reasonable amount of work and/or experience with OpenGL. IMO, a push to fix the beauty issues when there are real bugs still remaining isn't a good plan.
ttlanhil, like I said in the specific thread, NEW_WEATHER conflicts with the sky stuff. Also so far I have not even seen an improvement over the rain or anythign when using new_weather. Except for the fact that it can now do snow and sand(which I have yet to see).
I haven't played with either for a while, although I'm pretty sure I've used NEW_WEATHER with the skybox... If I go back to it some time, then I'll see if I can find the problems. Theoretically the client has support for a new weather protocol (which works with both old and new weather; the current weather protocols also work in bold old and new weather, but can only start one type of precipitation, normally rain. It takes changing one number in the code to make it default to a different type, however), the server just doesn't have the code in place to test it all out.

If you can either have the new weather or the skybox, then go with weather. It works.

My current bug/togo list for the skybox:

- ctrl+o descriptions need adjusting, and several config options need to be rolled together

- match the camera range in FPV and ext-cam

- the lightning is seen on clouds (at least in -DNEW_WEATHER, where the flash is more noticeable), which isn't really going to be correct.

- fix follow cam in FPV

- the shadow system in EL only works for a certain distance; after that the shadows look funky. The new view here will make players more likely to be looking long distances, so it is becoming more of a problem.

- with being able to see further, you can see when actors disappear. It might work okay if we alpha blend people in/out at a certain distance, because currently they just pop in/out on actor add/remove from the server.

- damage to shaders?

- low (bottom of screen) clipping on reflections too high

- middle-drag allows more freedom than keys

some shadows on water are full black, even through fog

remove cloud texture from water (completely. If you want a sky, enable it, otherwise don't draw anything on the water)

- clouds, stars & sun go from north to south when looking north or south; west to east when looking west or east. funky.

- the sky is drawn underneath the world, instead of reflecting the sky above

- shadows move with camera, not locked to player

 

This is only code issues. The actor animations looking robotic in low angle, increased visibility of mapbugs, missing parts of 3d objects if you can see from underneath (eg looking up through the eaves of a house), and probably some other problems are also there, but there's not much I or other coders can do about them.

Someone versed in 3D coding and familiar with EL's code could probably get most of that done in a few days to a weeks work, maybe longer, with only part of the day available and less experience it grows. It could certainly be fixed before the update if the right person/people tackle it, but I doubt it'll happen.

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the MINIMAP works as long as you don't use zoom. IIRC the current version in CVS has an above-others button, which I replaced in my local tree with minimise-to-hud, which I didn't get working properly at all.

If noone else is working on this, I'd like to pick these up. What are the zoom issues (and are there errors that I can reliable reproduce)? What is minimise-to-hud supposed to do? Draw the map (live?) on the hud? Can you send me a patch against current CVS for that?

 

EDIT: Oh, and BTW, if anyone has a clue on where in the code the map edges are colored blue, please post.

Edited by Grum

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If noone else is working on this, I'd like to pick these up. What are the zoom issues (and are there errors that I can reliable reproduce)? What is minimise-to-hud supposed to do? Draw the map (live?) on the hud? Can you send me a patch against current CVS for that?
Zoom issues: Sometimes when zoomed in, it will mis-apply the clipping (which is for the edges of the map). I've seen this when going from IP to WS. Sometimes it also applies the fog-of-war incorrectly (perhaps just rotated 90 degrees, not sure exactly what it is), also only when zoomed in.

It also does not translate properly when changing maps (eg when you go from one size map to a larger map, what was max zoom is no longer max, which will get annoying). My plan on that was to change it from a simple zoom factor to different increments based on the size of the map:

1 = far out, 5 = right in (tiny maps)

1 = far out, 3 = half, 5 = right in (small maps)

1 = far out, 3 = half, 4 = quarter, 5 = right in (med maps)

1 = far out, 2 = half, 3 = quarter, 4 = eighth, 5 = right in (large maps)

So if you're in a tiny map, zoomed out, and you zoom in, you go to far-in. If you then go to a large map, you're still at 5, max zoom-in, but zooming out will only take you one step back out. It needs to be checked when the map size changes and the increment on a zoom-click adjusted, but it should be more logical.

 

Minimise-to-HUD was supposed to draw a smaller 'radar' version of the minimap above the quickbar, below the EL icon (perhaps replacing the EL icon would be simpler, since a decent part of what I did change was making it adjust to move the quickbars). It wouldn't draw any map, only have a ring overlaid on the HUD bar (the same ring as used for fog-of-war) and people/critter dots (due to the smaller size). You then still have a look-around, without it taking up screen space.

The minimise flagging and checking for available space (resolution, etc) works, the minimising action works mostly (except that when you first log on, it might be confused, until the minimap is opened); the minimised minimap does not work at all, although this is probably just a matter of drawing part of what the normal minimap does at a decreased size and fixed zoom. What work I did get done is not drawing it in the right place or size.

The patch I have is here: http://users.on.net/~gingerman/minimap.patch

A fair bit of that patch is cosmetic; when Xaphier added framebuffer support he changed the bracing style in CVS in many places, and I didn't bother adjusting all of my tree to match (ref. wikipedia, I prefer K&R, Allman makes it so you can see less code per vertical screenspace, GNU style makes it so you can see less per horizontal). The moving of the quickbars generally works except on startup, but does seem somewhat a hack (hence the TODO).

And to explain the last TODO, the plan was (in later versions of the client) to draw the minimap from the map itself, which allows the minimap to change automatically when the map is changed, eg by Grum's Pawn code. Since the server would only send updates to part of the map at a time, I was going to just update each 'pixel' (at minimap size resolution) as a top-down snapshot of the ground; and save the colour data to where exploration data is saved in the current version.

One other thing I thought of recently was that it might be a good idea to move out the range figures (used to size the fog-of-war ring) to a define or variable, since the visible range may change (especially if FPV gets working).

If there's anything I forgot, could explain better, or you just want to discuss ideas with me; you should have me on ICQ, you can forum PM, post in Minimap, whatever :P

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ttlanhil: you say that new_weather is finished...but was the fog bug ever fixed?

"the Render Fog does NOT work with New_weather, unless it is raining."

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ttlanhil: you say that new_weather is finished...but was the fog bug ever fixed?

"the Render Fog does NOT work with New_weather, unless it is raining."

I said it was pretty much done, not completely finished... That one is a bug that I just fixed (along with lowering the fog levels, which was another thing you mentioned), but the numbers can probably be adjusted to make the various weathers look better.

Those numbers are from around lines 87 through 132 in weather.c

There's the colours (in RGBA) per precipitation type (which are used to make a colour when there's more than one type of weather active, eg rain and snow (for sleet)).

Minimum fog level (one number) and maximum fog level per precipitation type.

How fast the types fall (hail falls fast at 0.75, snow and dust are really slow at 0.005).

How much the wind will affect them (hail is heavy and won't be affected much, at 0.05, rain is affected a lot at 2.5; however this is after the fall speed is taken into account, so snow (with 0.1) is lower than rain (because per scene it moves down a lot less, so it shouldn't be moving side-to-side a great deal)).

And then the relative amount of particles when it's precipitating (which should never be over 1.0). Stuff like dust needs to be thick, at 1.0, stuff like lavamaps shouldn't be thick at all (since it's mostly a big of a red fog with the occasional falling ember, which is the precipitation).

 

Anyone who wants to play with the numbers for a better look should check about line 430:

set_weather_ratio(1, 100);

This is when the old/current weather protocol is used, and defaults to 100% rain (precipitation type 1). Adjust the 1 to whatever else from the list for testing the different types (or add some code so ctrl+shift+home in DEBUG will cycle weather types when already started instead of restarting, whatever).

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....#url list and a window of links works, although I think it'd be good for it to have a HUD button as well....

That would be nice I think :) I've submitted a patch to add one making use of the search looking icon. If the patch is accepted then may be a more appropriate icon can be added; a simple change to the patch. Anyway, here it is.

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That would be nice I think :) I've submitted a patch to add one making use of the search looking icon. If the patch is accepted then may be a more appropriate icon can be added; a simple change to the patch. Anyway, here it is.
Now in CVS, thanks :happy:

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