Discuss the different visibility system here

[Entropy]

Perception bonus is for stuff like night vision equipment (there is none in the game yet).

[ttlanhil]

okay, so people wanting stuff to make them less visable is expected... however, could we also get items that make you far more visable? I'd like to buy a lighthouse for my bot, so she's easy to find

[Learner]

okay, so people wanting stuff to make them less visable is expected... however, could we also get items that make you far more visable? I'd like to buy a lighthouse for my bot, so she's easy to find

Wearing armor etc already makes your player more visible, try #arm

[ttlanhil]

okay, so people wanting stuff to make them less visable is expected... however, could we also get items that make you far more visable? I'd like to buy a lighthouse for my bot, so she's easy to find

Wearing armor etc already makes your player more visible, try #arm

I know. but not necessarily a lot, hence the italics plus, I'm thinking maybe a medallion or something, rather than a lot of extra emu used up in a full suit

[Aerowind]

Heh, I think he wants a crown of the shining or something that gives him +40 to the Light modifier. Or perhaps Bots/NPC's can by default be given a 1337 high Light modifier?

[ttlanhil]

Heh, I think he wants a crown of the shining or something that gives him +40 to the Light modifier. Or perhaps Bots/NPC's can by default be given a 1337 high Light modifier?

ohh... *eye-clicks*

Lid of the Lighthouse - Makes even the blindest person in EL able to see you from afar (Light Modifier +50)

Weight: 1 EMU

[Fourier]

I have played with the perception, and I see it clearly working. I was harvesting white tiger fur at dusk, from ~3 to 3:45 and I did notice a definable change.

 

What I don't understand is the value of this. The only way I can think at the moment to use this is to sneak into KF and take mercury with a lower chance of getting pked. To me, this does not seem like it is enough to code the system. I think to make it cool, I need to get an advantage for being unseen, like i get free attacks on a character if I can sneak up on him/her. Is this the type of thing that is planned and I missed it? I have seen many suggestions about improving perception through medals/spells/etc., but nothing that really shows me an advantage other than finding spawns easier at night and maybe some sneaking around.

 

btw - bags seem to have the same visibility range at night and during the day.

 

4

[Entropy]

What I don't understand is the value of this.

 

Then perhaps you shouldn't get it.

[Kedrigern]

Ithink that I found a bug, Edlera isn't visible in daylight

 

here i see her

 

And here not

[Entropy]

Yes, it's the same bug as with the bots.

Will be fixed at the next server restart.

[Rehdon]

My 0.02 €:

 

1. it's clear that there are some little bugs and problems in the current implementation, but in the long run I think that it will add to the game's depth in lots of subtle and interesting ways;

 

2. one specific problem I'd like to see addressed is the monster/animal/character "vanishing", i.e. the fact that these objects simply disappear when you move away from them and then reappear if you do the reverse: this is a little too abrupt, I wonder if it were possible to see a shadowed character/object (just a greyed outline, or something similar) in a sort of intermediate zone, i.e.

 

* I can't see a thing (due to low perception + night and/or bad weather)

* I can see something approaching, but can't guess exactly what it is

* I can finally see her/him/it just fine because close enough

 

This effect would make the transition more esthetically pleasing and even add something to the gaming experience ("hmm, looks like it's just a rabbit ... oops, it's a fluffy, better run!!!"

 

3. the ideal and more pleasing solution would be one à la Diablo I/II, where you have a (literal) shading out of areas far from light sources, don't know how difficult would that be to implement though;

 

4. add the possibility to carry torches, lanterns etc. (or use spells) into really dark caves/dungeons and you'd be able to enjoy an even more exciting game experience! Imagine exploring a cave with no map, a feeble light and ominous shadows right over the corner ...

 

Rehdon

[Entropy]

I think that if you never seen players and monsters vanishing abruptly, then you should play some other MMOs.

[MagnuesiuM]

i dont like it it makes everything look choppy

[bkc56]

I think that if you never seen players and monsters vanishing abruptly, then you should play some other MMOs.

Don't we already have a third-state defined for actors: the semi-visible state for an invisible actor seen by someone with true-sight?

 

Would it be possible to have actors (characters, animals, monsters) use all three states so there's a transition between visible and invisible?

 

If the old code was something like:

 

if (actor_distance >= sight_range)
actor = invisible;
else
actor = visible;

Perhaps use something like (with better math to define the middle range):

 

if (actor_distance > sight_range)
actor = invisible;
else if (actor_distance == sight_range)
actor = semiVisible;
else
actor = visible;

This would provide a crude transition between states for actors right at the threshold of visibility. Not a true fade in/out, but hopefully enough to prevent the blink on/off that we get now.

Edited March 16, 2007 by bkc56

[Entropy]

Yes, it can be done, but then people will not know if one actor is invisible or just at the edge of the line of sight, and would make things more complicated, and there is no need for it.

One better way to do it is for someone to modify the client and have a fade in/out effect for the actors that are sent to the client and for those that are removed.

[pennifuin]

or maybe have three stages of visibilty:

 

- clearly visable (close in broad daylight etc. duh)

 

-out of sight (hidden in shadows, beyond your view range)

 

-and an intermediate state where only the avatar is viewable, but the name tag is hidden. (friend? foe? white rabbit? fluffy rabbit?) "you are not close enough to read his/her name tag."

[Rehdon]

I think that if you never seen players and monsters vanishing abruptly, then you should play some other MMOs.

 

OK, I think I got what you mean now, this is actually the first and only MMO I played so far.

 

Rehdon

Edited March 17, 2007 by Rehdon

[luciferx]

At 17 million exp to oa i cant add any pp to perception... Looks like they took the MMO outa my MMORPG

[Mugwump]

Grrr... Five pages of jive...

 

The visibility system works. Could it be different or better? Sure! Obviously the whole game structure could be rewritten to emulate evil things appearing out of the fog that murder the knights' pages who carry the lanterns of slight visibility.

 

Hogwash!! There are plenty other aspects to EL to concentrate on to make this such a great issue. It works well, and is fun to have things *poof* into existence as well as *poof* out (think bags!)

 

[Atlantis]

At 17 million exp to oa i cant add any pp to perception... Looks like they took the MMO outa my MMORPG

well, you knew perception would come into play at some point, maybe you should have saved a few pps instead of taking 60/112 p/c and every neg?

[Darc0]

Yes, it's the same bug as with the bots.

Will be fixed at the next server restart.

 

 

Was the fix meant to make Bots/NPCs always visible? I noticed SilverLeaf (SiTu Tradebot) disappearing before he got to the edge of the screen in WSC at night, but I'm not sure if that was a problem with my machine (which sometimes has issues with the display) or meant to happen. If he should always be visible, I can test with other guildies to see if its just me or not.

[Entropy]

Yes, that bug was a double bug, I fixed only one part, and thought that was it.

Now I fixed the second part too, just wait for the next update.

[Lorck]

At 17 million exp to oa i cant add any pp to perception... Looks like they took the MMO outa my MMORPG

well, you knew perception would come into play at some point, maybe you should have saved a few pps instead of taking 60/112 p/c and every neg?

Well, he can use new stones of phys/coord removal as well.

[Wizzy]

I have one question about #arm Light Modifier. When I have a modifier of +10 I am very visable to other charaters with perception 4. When I bring my light Modifer down to negitive 2 I am just as visable to the same person within one step. I had thought that if I had a negitive light modifier, I would be invisbale, or nearly invisable to anyone with only base perception. The test was done at night 4 times, in different directions. Is this a bug? or do I not understand the light modifer completely?

 

Thanks and Regards

 

Felessan

[nathanstenzel]

Entropy, I was thinking and I don't think it is black fog that you need if you want things to be gradually darker the greater they are from the player.

 

I think you want to make the player's head a dim ambient light source. The better the night vision, the brighter the light.

This means that you will be turning down the ambient lighting from the moon and stars and whatever to make the affect possible.

 

The player would see armor as a dim light source too.

Same for bots.

....or if that is not possible, turn up the brightness level of them for rendering.

 

I hope you like this idea.

Edited April 14, 2007 by nathanstenzel