Particle Editor improvements

[Roja]

If I start with a totally new particle in the editor, 99% of the time all I end up with is a non moving group of particles in the preview window, or nothing in the preview window, them all being white or not the color I want, etc... It's total frustration. Maybe I'm just stupid...but I've totally given up with creating any new particles.

 

So, here are my suggestions and thoughts on what needs to be fixed, starting from the top of the editor and working down:

 

System Type:

we have numbers here, 0-5

Doesn't really tell us much other than what we see in the preview screen. Instead of numbers, can the names be used in instead? The names are listed down below inside the quote. The other problem is, some types seem to do nothing, they're just blank. And some fade out, and stay faded out-even if you want that to happen, it'd be a good idea to have a "repeat" or "loop" option available for it, so you can actually see it again.

 

 

Blend Modes

Obvious this allows for a lot of combinations with the Source and Destination options.

The problem here is we pretty much blindly choose different options..they make no sense to me and other non-programmers. There's no logic involved, therefore its' VERY frustrating trying to get something to work with all the other options.

Can these be given English names instead of what sounds like coding tags?

 

 

Particle#

fine as is

 

TTL

Meaning time-to-live. Ok, makes sense described that this is how long the particles last, until they die. But how long is it exactly? Seconds? Reading the description in the map editor manual needs some clearing up:

"Not used when less than zero.

The system dies when all particles are free and ttl is zero (it's decremented when particles are updated.)"

If it's not used when it's less than zero then why is there a -1 option? The system dies? What does that mean exactly?

 

 

RND

This is ok I guess.

 

Particle Size

Fine as is.

 

Particles size & min max RGB values

This seems to be broken. I put in values but the colors don't change accordingly. If they did, then this would be fine.

Another thing that doesn't make sense here is what exactly does min & max mean with regards to the colors? Source/destination mean fading in/fade out, ok..but min/max?

 

Display Options

All of these are ok.

 

 

In addition, we do need the particles to have some attributes that normal 3d objects do: such as rotation on all axis.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Particle mode:

-Clicking on the New icon after you click the Particle Mode icon will allow you to open a particle to place on the map.

-Press Ctrl+p to open the Particle Editor if you want to try and make a new particle.

-Shift + Right click on Particle mode icon will turn on/off the black boxes

 

The Editor Interface

**On ANY + or - button you can:

-Click with mouse alone go up increments of 0.01

-Click with mouse AND hold down shift: increments of 0.10

-Click with mouse AND hold down ctrl: increments of 1.0

 

System types:

0 Teleporter. "Acceleration" is used as a random modifier to speed each fram. Particles die when at z is greater than 2.0

1 Teleport in or out. Acceleration used as for teleporter. Particles die at z is greater than 2.0... Now that I think of it, this should probably not be used (the update function is almost identical to the teleporter one.)

2 Bag in or out. Acceleration used as for teleporter. Particles die at z is greater than 1.0

3 Spherical or circular burst. Set velocity to zero to make it be calculated by position. If particle has one coordinate set to zero, the burst will be circular, otherwise spherical. Particles die when at a distance of 3 times the constrain radius from the system center.

4 Fire (or smoke etc.) Acceleration used as for teleporter. Particles die when alpha is less than 0.0

5 Fountain. Particles will bounce if they go under z=0 (the ground plane) and die when alpha is less than 0.0

 

Blending Modes

These are used to combine the particle (source) with what's been rendered before (destination.) The final color for each pixel is sblend*scolor+dblend*dcolor (where sblend is the source blending factor and so on.) You can ignore GL_SRC_ALPHA_SATURATE and anything involving DST_ALPHA, since we don't (necessarily) have an alpha channel.

 

Source (first value):

GL_ZERO 0x0
GL_ONE 0x1
GL_DST_COLOR 0x0306
GL_ONE_MINUS_DST_COLOR 0x0307
GL_SRC_ALPHA_SATURATE 0x0308
GL_SRC_ALPHA 0x0302
GL_ONE_MINUS_SRC_ALPHA 0x0303
GL_DST_ALPHA 0x0304
GL_ONE_MINUS_DST_ALPHA 0x0305

Destination (second value):

GL_ZERO 0x0
GL_ONE 0x1
GL_SRC_COLOR 0x0300
GL_ONE_MINUS_SRC_COLOR 0x0301
GL_SRC_ALPHA 0x0302
GL_ONE_MINUS_SRC_ALPHA 0x0303
GL_DST_ALPHA 0x0304
GL_ONE_MINUS_DST_ALPHA 0x0305

 

#particles

-How many particles will be displayed in total.

 

TTL-Time To Live

Not used when less than zero.

The system dies when all particles are free and ttl is zero (it's decremented when particles are updated.)

 

RND-Random function

Random function used when creating particles. I'd prefer it if you used 0 here, but if you feel that 1 looks better, then go ahead and use it.

0 - Linear distribution between min and max

1 - Other kind of distribution (from the old system.) Most values should be between min and max...

 

Particles size & min max RGB values

-R=red, G=green, B=blue, A=alpha (or transparency). These are the different colors you can make the particles. The ones with d in front are the Destination particles, so the colors that the Source colors get changed into as they move.

 

Display:

-You can Zoom in/out of the window display by pressing pageup/down or middle mouse button, and also rotate by pressing home/end

-Click on the Display button to see all options listed below!!

Texture

-You can click on the + or - to see different particle textures you can use. Currently there is just a circle and a star type.

Start Position

-Changes the X, Y, Z orientation of where the particle starts on it's axis

Constraint

-Defines the radius of the particles.

-Not used when less than zero.Created particles are constrained to be so that x*x+y*y is less than constraint, i.e. the constrain is the square of the radius.

Start Velocity

-Changes the velocity of the particles.

Acceleration

-Changes the acceleration of the particles.

 

Lights

-Attaches a light to your particles.

 

Open & Saving

-Click the open folder icon to open a particle file for editing.

-Click the save icon to save your newly made particle!**You MUST save the particle in order to use it!!**

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[crusadingknight]

TTL

Meaning time-to-live. Ok, makes sense described that this is how long the particles last, until they die. But how long is it exactly? Seconds? Reading the description in the map editor manual needs some clearing up:

"Not used when less than zero.

The system dies when all particles are free and ttl is zero (it's decremented when particles are updated.)"

If it's not used when it's less than zero then why is there a -1 option? The system dies? What does that mean exactly?

Looking at the client code, the TTL isn't any sane value, just a countdown run each time the function is called, so the units for the TTL are minimum 10ms, and scales up based on load from there. A TTL of -1 means the system (in general, but not necessarily) doesn't continue to update or add particles anymore, so it's generally a one-off system. (The difference isn't visible in the particle editor, since it has to keep replaying the effect so the person editting it can get a good view.)

 

EDIT: On a second note, the RGBA is working...

Edited December 4, 2006 by crusadingknight

[Roja]

So a TTL of -1 means the particles play once, then are gone? I still don't understand based on what you said. What's a "one-off system"?

 

 

The RGB color blocks don't change, and the values don't really work as you'd expect them to...For instance:

In the top min column, i put 17.5 for the R value, the rest are at 0. In the Max column everything is left in the default settings. IN the DR min I put 1.5(rest at 0), what I end up with is a cloud of red, yellow, and pink particles.

If I then change the max column to 17.5 in the red, and the rest at 0, I will get an all-red cloud..but then the particles speed up! Why? This is for color.

 

What does min/max mean? When/why/how do those color blocks change?

 

Edit: and then playing around more with those RGB settings, I changed the DMax column all to 0's...all the particles changed to white, and stopped moving! And if I put their values back to how they were, nothing new happens..it stays that way......thus the frustration begins

[crusadingknight]

So a TTL of -1 means the particles play once, then are gone? I still don't understand based on what you said. What's a "one-off system"?

 

 

The RGB color blocks don't change, and the values don't really work as you'd expect them to...For instance:

In the top min column, i put 17.5 for the R value, the rest are at 0. In the Max column everything is left in the default settings. IN the DR min I put 1.5(rest at 0), what I end up with is a cloud of red, yellow, and pink particles.

If I then change the max column to 17.5 in the red, and the rest at 0, I will get an all-red cloud..but then the particles speed up! Why? This is for color.

 

What does min/max mean? When/why/how do those color blocks change?

 

Edit: and then playing around more with those RGB settings, I changed the DMax column all to 0's...all the particles changed to white, and stopped moving! And if I put their values back to how they were, nothing new happens..it stays that way......thus the frustration begins

My bad, writing overcomplicated, long-winded papers during the day makes me bad at explaining when I get home. Generally, a TTL of -1 means the system will shoot out all of the particles at once.

 

In the RGBA settings, the min and max are the minimum and maximum rgba (measured from 0 to 1) at the time the particle is created; The rgba will be selected from between those values. (Likely the reason your cloud is becoming red is because the rgba values decay downwards by -0.02 by default, so while everything else is becoming less coloured, your red value is staying above 1.)

 

Probably quicker for me to explain how the particle update system works:

When a particle is created, it's red is chosen somewhere between the min and max r values. On each update, a value chosen from between the min and max dr is added to the red value, increasing or decreasing the redness of the particle.

 

By default, the particles have no velocity or acceleration, so they aren't really moving, they're just fading out , which is why they fade more quickly or slowly depending on how you adjust the DMin/DMax settings.

[Roja]

Ok I understand the min/max now..but I do not understand the DRGB values and what they do exactly. Can you explain them better too?

[freeone3000]

Delta Red-Green-Blue, looks like.

 

It adds a random number between these to the value every time the particle is calculated.

 

So, with DR of -5 to 5. Starting at 1, it could increase by 3, to four, decrease by 5, to -1, and possibly increase again by two to 1. It's the possible variance of the particle color.

[Roja]

I thought the min/max values were the possible variances and choices for the random colors?

 

Still makes no sense, sorry Just explain it for n00bs please

[freeone3000]

Yes, that's when it starts out. They can change color as they continue, which is the DRGB thing.

[Roja]

so in fact, it's like a gradient. Ok, that makes sense.

 

But why do the particles stop moving/start moving at a different speed, when I play with those color values? That again, makes no sense and is highly frustrating

[crusadingknight]

so in fact, it's like a gradient. Ok, that makes sense.

 

But why do the particles stop moving/start moving at a different speed, when I play with those color values? That again, makes no sense and is highly frustrating

Unless you changed the velocity settings manually, they aren't moving, just fading out.

[Roja]

Ok let me try to explain it better.

 

Default settings, you see the particles fade in/fade out, looping nicely. It's a continuous effect...on going, ok you got that so far...

 

Now play with the color values randomly...you'll see them stop moving, speed up, and when you put the settings back to how they were they may still be frozen in place-instead of looping and fading in/out/in/out like they should.

 

So why does this happen? Seems like a bug.

[Roja]

Anyone?

[Roja]

Ok..last time I'll ask...does anyone know??? Because I'd really like to know and get this whole particle editor settled, and hopefully fixed up a little too!

[PsVic]

Hi team!

 

I talk to Entropy about my help, and He say, that need help with map_editor.

 

I receive small task/wished list.

 

After learn source code (few dyes) and make small patch.

What I improve:

- mouse rotation (like in client)

- fix bug with move 3d object when it have pos_z > 0

- when mouse click+shift on scene - it's will scrolled to position, where mouse clicked.

 

also I rewrite part of event.c for more friendly C-style

 

this is small improvements, but I if you agree changes and apply patch - I will continue working on map_editor.

 

patch here: http://www.el-rus.org/patch/map_editor.diff

 

Thanks.

[Roja]

Hi, I'd love to test it out! But unfortunately I don't know how to use a .diff file. If you can make a windows version of the map editor that I can try I'll let you know if it's good

[PsVic]

If you can make a windows version of the map editor that I can try I'll let you know if it's good

Sorry, I working under FreeBSD and can't compile windows (I not have Visual Studio to run under wine)

 

Maybe somebody from team can do it?

[Roja]

if someone can tell me what to do with a .diff file then i can probably compile the map editor...i know i talked about it before in the past but the way explained to me didn't work and was pretty primitive like..don't know how else to explain it

[Entropy]

We need an official patch applier/compiler

I'll find someone to do it.