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Buyable nexuses

Do we like the idea?  

383 members have voted

  1. 1. Do we like the idea?

    • OMG this r0x!
      205
    • Sux :(
      171


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I'm strongly against buying any attributes/nexus/perks/pickpoints/related for in game or real world cash.

Such mechanisms devaluate the work put into developing your own character. It's easy to imagine that people that have lots of cash in game will just buy hydrogenium bars instead of making them.

 

surly this should be judged on two parts

 

1) will this benefit the game as a whole

 

2) does buyin attributes instead of earning them devalue the spirit of the game

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I'm strongly against buying any attributes/nexus/perks/pickpoints/related for in game or real world cash.

Such mechanisms devaluate the work put into developing your own character. It's easy to imagine that people that have lots of cash in game will just buy hydrogenium bars instead of making them.

 

surly this should be judged on two parts

 

1) will this benefit the game as a whole

 

2) does buyin attributes instead of earning them devalue the spirit of the game

 

If you would think a bit about it you would realise that devaluating the players' work affects the community. Community IS the game.

Gil

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As you know, EL was designed to be a classless game. That is, everyone can do whatever they want, without having the game restricting your activity (that is, assuming you have infinite time, you can be good in all the skills equally).

But as you might also know, the nexuses restrict this, because if you have all the nexuses necesary tt manufacture, summon and wear everything, you'll have a weak character from the combat point of view. And viceversa.

I am thrilled to see you are considering this problem and are willing to work on it. I'm not so sure this is how I would go about it though. I'd rather see the pickpoint/nexus/attributes relationships restructured (such as limits or linking for example). Negative perks either removed or made to actually be truly negative. I personally would prefer to see a total character reset if these things could be changed/fixed than countless band-aids that don't fix the problem, just make it a little less painful.

On this particular idea, I am torn. If no other options will ever be considered, it might be acceptable if there was a way to ensure that people wouldn't just trade bought items for gc, or bars, or whatever roundabout way they think of to spend real $$ and convert it to bars. Either way, I don't think this can or will fix the pickpoint/attribute problem in it's entirety.

 

 

I'd rather see the classlessness of the game increase in some way that it's "easy to change from one skill to another" than "easy to become pr0 in every single skill".

It shouldn't be easy to become pr0 in every skill but it shouldn't be a "you must choose" situation either. I want to be a fighter one hour, a manuer the next. My mood changes a lot faster than I could "change" abilities of my character. I want to be able to do anything well, whenever I want to. I DO expect to have to work hard to attain this ability. Nobody said anything about wanting it to be easy. But being classless to me means I can work on everything and anything whenever I want and keep that knowledge and skill for use at any time.

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I have to agree with you. Such change in game is the very significant one. In this case the only reasonable way would be global char reset with cleaning all storages, setting all attributes/nexus/skills at default (starting) levels, so every single player has the equal start.

Not sure if I like such possibility, though.

Gil

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I have to agree with you. Such change in game is the very significant one. In this case the only reasonable way would be global char reset with cleaning all storages, setting all attributes/nexus/skills at default (starting) levels, so every single player has the equal start.

Not sure if I like such possibility, though.

Gil

 

while that would make it fair to everyone, noone would be able to get hydro bars after that without months of lvling skills again so u would have to spend PP on nexus' to do so and we r back to problem 1.

 

not to mention i heard about the accidental character loss a long time ago, and how much that sucked, i dont think we would want to do it on purpose

Edited by Happy_G

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I don't like this idea, I'd rather see nexus potions maybe, giving highest possible nexus ex. vegetal 6 for 5 minutes.

 

Best alternative idea on this, in my opinion. This would just be a temporary boost, much like a/d/p/c, craft, manu etc pots that are already in game.

 

What would be interesting is if there were one potion per nexus and in order to make that potion you would need, not only a high pot level/nexus, but also a high nexus in the pot you are attempting to make.

 

ie. Pot lvl x & Vegetal Nex 6(?) + Artificial Nex 6(?) = Artificial Nexus Pot

 

Dunno, just popped into my head after reading LadyReni's comment.

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not to mention i heard about the accidental character loss a long time ago, and how much that sucked, i dont think we would want to do it on purpose

Actually we've done it on purpose before too (when we brought the pickpoint system into the game). And remember, this is a beta game.

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I don't think that this is good for the game. The OA points should be used to gain pick points as it is now. As for hight lvl players having a hard time getting pick points, I say tough this is the way the game operates. :D

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not to mention i heard about the accidental character loss a long time ago, and how much that sucked, i dont think we would want to do it on purpose

Actually we've done it on purpose before too (when we brought the pickpoint system into the game). And remember, this is a beta game.

 

true, we do need to remember that it is beta, i wouldnt care if there was a full reset, id still play, and it would put everyone on even grounds.....altho i have spent the last weeks on 57k FE's and im still not done, but id get over that.

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I don't like this idea, I'd rather see nexus potions maybe, giving highest possible nexus ex. vegetal 6 for 5 minutes.
This could be just too powerful. Compare to potions that increase skill level, which improve your ability to do something; nexus boosts would enable you to do completely new things, devaluing the decisions you've made in developing your character.

 

It seems that "buyable nexus" is intended to compensate players who have developed unbalanced characters, but only realise this when pick points become scarcer. The flip side being that players who have developed more well rounded characters lose out?

 

I thought that was what reset was for.

 

If the geometric experience progression is too severe, there are alternatives; an arithmetic progression for instance (gap between levels going 1, 2, 3 ...xps). But this would require a complete reset of the game!

 

Personally, I rather like the attribute/nexus/skills system. It has a lot going for it, and could be very powerful if used well. However, I don't see it being applied as well as it could be. A good RPG cannot be designed by committee though...

 

An alternative previously suggested was to allow characters to buy advances on their pick points, for ever increasing amounts. So OA may be shown as "98/95" if you've bought 3 advances.

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Well, so far, more than 50% of the players are for this. I also give it my vote of confidence (otherwise I wouldn't implement it, no?) and I think it will work just fine.

Remember other unpopular things I did, such as the cooldowns, and the game is better off because of them.

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I think most resistance against this comes from those who already have many nexuses like celticlady, and this is a valid point. I never understood why hydro bars would have to be exchanged for a nexus point instead of making one pick point free from existing nexus. It amounts to the same thing albeit being far more flexible, and keeps everyone happy. Why be so hell-bent on applying this rule in a way that only benefits half the people who'd want to use it?

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An alternative previously suggested was to allow characters to buy advances on their pick points, for ever increasing amounts. So OA may be shown as "98/95" if you've bought 3 advances.

We considered that idea too, and I think my current one is the best (less bitching, less potential for abuse, easeir to implement).

I don't think there will be too many people buying nexuses anyway, some don't want to reset, some don't have the money, some don't have the motivation.

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Sure, I could reset, but I chose my pp placement very carefully based on how I wanted to play the game. I would like to pk. I never will be able to. Even if I took neg perks, I am still down the 31 pp I have in nexus(yes, some would carry over like Human and such). Why should a fighter or anyone who chose to add alot of pp into p/c be able to then work on another skill by buying the nexus? They can still be a pk'er 'and' work on another skill. Where as someone like me can't unless I reset.

 

This was the first thought that entered my mind. yes I also voted no. I am also afraid of what it might do to the market itself, once a high leveled fighter will be able to make what they would otherwise buy from the market, being it weapons, amour, potions, rings and essences etc. Most items needed for pk have low nexus needed.

 

If it was used for summoning stones or perhaps upcoming spells only the high levelled fighters again would have the benefit. The good thing is that the time they would spent making these items the pk maps would perhaps be a bit busier, however with the already gained large emu this would only be temporary.

 

As being EL a classless game I think it was ment you dont start a pre-defined character ( no matter its race or sex ) but develop it yourself by buying and studying the required books and selecting carefully the required nexus in whatever you like to do.

 

I do however indeed like the idea though of a temporary nexus boost in whatever shape that might come.

 

just my thought.

 

Nardo

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my thought has always been never to spend PP on something u can pay GC for like the mm cape covers the MM perk.

 

if u were to put a cap on how many u can buy this way, and just make them pickpoints then i think everyone would agree that this is "fair"

 

of course you dont have to make it exist with everyones opinions on what is "fair"

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@All people who say "I already got the nexi I want, so I vote no":

The question is NOT "is this a good idea for your character", BUT "is this a good idea for the game".

PLEASE stop thinking all (proposed) changes should benefit your character immediately, directly and above all more than other players' characters! PLEASE...

I don't need it, so it's of little value to me... so what? I don't need it.

A lot of older players, who put in the hard work, will be penalised by this, since they have to reset and lose a lot of it, or miss out... not a 'so what?' anymore. When I say that it's not of use to me, and explain why, that doesn't just mean my character. That means all players who have worked long and hard to get all the nexii they need

people, in large enough numbers, who this idea relatively-penalises, should be considered.

Well, my remark was mainly aimed at the "I don't benefit so I'm against the idea" posts (and there are quite a few of those).

But still, "older players getting penalized by this" is not what the question of this thread is about either.

 

 

 

An alternative previously suggested was to allow characters to buy advances on their pick points, for ever increasing amounts. So OA may be shown as "98/95" if you've bought 3 advances.
We considered that idea too, and I think my current one is the best (less bitching, less potential for abuse, easeir to implement).
Would it be easy to do, and would there not be much to abuse, if all nexuses (game-wide) would be reverted into pp's? lurker_ani.gif

 

 

 

of course, the larger part of my vote is that it's purchasing of stats, which is a Bad Thing IMO...
That's a much more valid argument IMHO.

But I don't agree :P -- like I said (kinda), there's a huge difference between limited and virtually unlimited buying of stats.

 

 

 

I'd rather see the classlessness of the game increase in some way that it's "easy to change from one skill to another" than "easy to become pr0 in every single skill".
It shouldn't be easy to become pr0 in every skill but it shouldn't be a "you must choose" situation either. I want to be a fighter one hour, a manuer the next. My mood changes a lot faster than I could "change" abilities of my character. I want to be able to do anything well, whenever I want to. I DO expect to have to work hard to attain this ability. Nobody said anything about wanting it to be easy. But being classless to me means I can work on everything and anything whenever I want and keep that knowledge and skill for use at any time.
I heard you say that numerous times before, and I agree I would miss the ability to do "everything" too.

But IMHO the game lacks a bit of depth without some "forced" difference between characters (but "easy" to switch).

I think of some karma (ebul--saintly) / affiliation (profession) system; not a linear, but a dual system.

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Just some general thoughts.

 

The "Yes" crowd seems to be saying "Yes" mostly for two reasons.

1) Stimulate the economy by the chains of requirements necessary for production.

2) Take money out of the hands of the wealthy.

 

There's a logical fallacy in this: namely, that there are countless ways to cause these effects, so this particular one has no more inherent value than another. Thus, the only fair thing to discuss is the net effect of the change on players. The major effects will be:

 

1) Old timer players who've already bought countless nexuses have a virtually unrecoverable disadvantage. They could reset, but then they'll never catch up to where they were.

 

2) It provides sizable rewards to fighters, but not to those who focused on production. I.e., it's a very imbalanced benefit. If there was a need to boost undiversified mid-high range fighters, I wasn't aware of it. Did anyone here have that opinion?

 

3) In the long run, it will have a severe negative impact on the marketplace. When the high level players with oodles of money can manufacture everything that they need, they'll only buy raw ingredients that take time to harvest. This means a notable reduction in demand for products produced by midlevel producers. This is a penalty to producers. If there was a need to reduce the strength of producers, I wasn't aware of it. Did anyone here have that opinion?

 

Back to the arguments "for" it. If the goal is to increase production and get money out of the hands of the wealthy, I can't help but take a page from my old mudding days. On the mud I used to play (3K), they dealt with this sort of issue by introducing a "houses" system. For an exorbitant fee, one could buy a house. They could decorate their house, invite people in, etc. People went crazy for it -- it was a "must-have" for high levels. Not only did the initial spending on the house draw money out of circulation, but so did the subsequent improvements. Want another room? You have to pay. Want an "extra" (things like "no reset rooms" -- places where you could drop items where they wouldn't disappear after time; in our situation, extras could be almost anything)? You have to pay even more.

 

Now, I'm not saying that houses are necessarily the answer here. But there are lots of things that people would like to have in-game that could stimulate the economy without the penalties listed in 1-3. The key is demand. If you create something that there is demand for, people will work to get it.

 

If the intent is to implement this feature, I think most of the critics would be satisfied if the amount of nexuses per stat that could be bought was capped at 1 or 2. I think what is bothering people the most is the notion that it's possible for a person to, say, never put a point into animal, and then end up with animal 5.

 

Just my two cents. :P

Edited by KarenRei

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3) In the long run, it will have a severe negative impact on the marketplace. When the high level players with oodles of money can manufacture everything that they need, they'll only buy raw ingredients that take time to harvest. This means a notable reduction in demand for products produced by midlevel producers. This is a penalty to producers. If there was a need to reduce the strength of producers, I wasn't aware of it. Did anyone here have that opinion?

 

Just because I am capable to make a PHP forum software doesn't mean I am going to make my own rather than buy a license from IPB.

Just because I am able to change the oil or tires in my car it doesn't mean I will do it myself.

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This thread is now 9 pages long. Mostly filled with assumptions what may happen or not. And opinions based on assumptions. Throwing bones into a fire and read the future out of the way they crack may be more effective than speculating what may happen.

 

Hey, i go a wonderful idea:

 

Lets try it and see how it works.

 

If its good, let it be in game.

 

If its bad, Radu will remove it for sure.

 

Makes sense somehow?

 

Just my 2 cents :P

 

Piper

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makes sense piper.. but one persons bad is another persons good, if you get what im saying :P

 

and i voted no i think.. i woke up and was grumpy and i shouldnt do anything when im grumpy lol

 

33pps in nexus either way im not resetting, but i really like the idea :) hope its useful for those that need it :(

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It's a good idea, if u have millions to the next PP and need a nexus this option would be nice to have in that case, i think u'd get the bars b4 the PP anyways.

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At the same time ... how about a charge of 10 Hydro bars to move an existing pp from one category to another... would allow minor tweaks to your character's abilities without needing to reset. Of course any major change to your character ... would be hideously expensive ... thus resest then.

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At the same time ... how about a charge of 10 Hydro bars to move an existing pp from one category to another... would allow minor tweaks to your character's abilities without needing to reset. Of course any major change to your character ... would be hideously expensive ... thus resest then.

 

This is an interesting idea that we had for like 2 years now.

It might get implemented in the future, although doing so might piss off yet another group of people: "OMFG, the rich IRL people can now move all their PPs every day and take over all the markets with their evil IRL money".

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Add a field to your character DB called cheese to identify the nay-sayers ...

 

If they complain enough ... add a message the the login for these annoying players.

 

Let them know you care ... by forcing them to take and acknowledge that the overworked staff running EL ...

 

... are providing them a piece of cheese to go with their whine ...

 

Many happy thoughts to all of you,

 

Ikaris

 

(make it pop up every time they log-in ... and remind them that they cannot recieve these new items or options.)

Edited by Ikaris

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Meaning it takes a long while to get a large amount of s2e made up, even for a team effort. but someone buying a ton of them from the shop can have cut out half the time it takes to get the hydro bars (from ingredients gathering to final end product).

 

Rich people cna go at Walmart and buy a thank then go and kill people they don't like.

 

Can someone point out the innacuracy in those quotes?

People can't buy s2e's from the shop no matter how rich they are.

People can't buy tanks at Walmart no matter how rich they are.

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