So, what do we think about the new changes?

[Lorck]

The latest 3 new potions wiull bring some money to the potioners, so long as they read the books. So the vials were removed to compensate a little bit, and also because there were WAY too many vials in the game.

We might, however, make them manufacturable.

Ok, i used to mix srs on the spawn...

 

1 Sr take: 1 vial + 1 blue quartz + 2 Blue Star Flowers + 1 wine, total emu 7, mana recovered:20

 

Note that in Sr's you need to harv blue quartz... And for each Sr is one vial spent. And finally its 4 veg nexus.

 

1 mana pot take: 1 vial + 1 blue lupine + wine, total emu 4 (but you need to carry to spawn only one vial since you never fail and the vial is not consumed, therefore the total emu to make say 100 mana pots is 301), mana recovered: 10, nexus required 0.

 

Now everyone can enjoy the benefits of making pots to recover mana on the spawn, even those who 0 vegetal nexus and with 0 potion skill. How dumb is this.

 

I guess very few people will buy Srs now, because they can mix mana pots (who recover a nice quantity of mana with few emu) on the spawn. Since the money of the pot makers comes from Srs they are in a very bad situation now, imo, even with the new pots added.

 

I kindly suggest that mana pots recover less mana (or a quantity based on your pot level) or have their cooldown dramatically increased.

====

 

On another hand harm is giving good damage

 

But I guess that training pvp will become a lot harder cuz people can become invisible and wait till someone reach 40's of life then harm. Its a garanteed kill.

 

EDIT:

Others believe that fighters will suffer because potion levels might return to about 15-20gc per.

Fighters will not care because they got a very easy source of mana: mana pots. Why buy srs if you can make on spot (since fighters have good emu and can carry tons of ingreds)?

 

Now pot makers are doomed.

Edited July 11, 2006 by Lorck

[Mr.Mind]

It's ok lorck. Potioners can always harvest flowers for money.

[sirdan]

my only comment on the update.... Toadstool rocks!!!

[nicky]

Just wanted to say, i'm happy with all of the changes and very impressed with the amount of features and the details that went into them.

 

I also have no doubt that any major ballence flaws created with the srs vs mana potion formula and cooldown can be worked out, but this situation is adding a new dimension of strategy to the game which will cause many to try new directions for thier character development.

 

I Like It!

[Arnieman]

Thoughts - Most changes are... managable.

 

Vials being destroyed is bad - at least without a counter balance (making vials has been suggested...) Yes, there is a flood of vials - a byproduct of cooldown, since the only effective food source is a potion. Reducing some of the vials is a good idea, but not without a replacable mean for vials - besides chugging the kiddie drinks (mana/minor healing pots). A suggestion has been made about exchanging vials for a potion discount - that would certainly create a more sustainable exit strategy for vials.

 

Destruction of vials will NOT help the issue that a newbie can sit at a bush for a week and own a full plate set - the two problems are not as closely related as you'd assume. As is, essence alchemy and harvesting are the most readily available means of making money, hands down. Combat has some profit potential. As for the rest of the skills, IF they have any profit to them, it's close enough to expenditure to make that the profit margin is negligable. Prices have been falling, which is symptomatic of deflation - there is less and less gold flowing, compared to more and more items. As I have said before, pulling more money out of the economy makes people drop their prices even more, because money becomes scarcer as compared to products.

 

Spell readjustments - I don't like the way it's done - maybe if a higher level spell were done with the similar effects of the (until now) existing spells... Like, say, you have remote healing, costing 1 HE and 1 MgE, at the old level, and, say, a greater remote healing at level 25 or something, with the new essence costs/spell effects. Essences are something readily used anyway - there hasn't seemed to be any shortage of people using a finished product here (except FE, but that's symptomatic of the manu/craft skill problems).

 

Potion effects - If all is as I'm hearing, an SR is now essentially worthless - you can pay slightly more in ingred cost, and make a more effective potion of a lower level... not to mention that the lower level one is a no-fail potion which doesn't destroy its vial, while the other has fail potential... yeah, that's gonna help the market.

 

Increased price on FPs - Read what I said about deflation and money sinks - they don't work together for the desired result, unless you are trying for people to sell 5k beaver furs for 1gc (alright, an exxageration, but not too inconceivable if market trends keep going as they seem - buyers have far more control in the present market, so prices fall as gold becomes scarcer).

 

Adjusting the new creatures - I won't say much here, no real opinion formed.

Edited July 11, 2006 by Arnieman

[iktor]

I dislike the new remote heal spell for the following reasons:

 

 

This negatively effects all the new hopeful mages by making healing at IP a waste of time. Cost of HE and ME with cooldown and now 3x the ingreds. I do not need to remote heal at my level, but I feel sorry for the people just starting.

 

 

 

Increasing esses required for spells will make it much harder for those who dont have high magic already. Perhaps exp should rise slightly too?

 

 

Gotta admit i'm annoyed that mana drain has increased to 6 air essences after i just finished makin 13k of em. I'll deal with that i guess, but has anyone made air essences recently??? If we gotta have more of them per spell could we lessen the cooldown on them? For such a low level alch and relatively large ingredient requirements they are very slow to make. Once again, its only hurting those ppl who are just starting out or trying to get their levels up. (those that didn't enjoy no cool-down on sr's)

Edited July 11, 2006 by iktor

[shamara]

People have commented that healing is an expensive hobby and it just got more so. I won't stop healing ppl, though, and it is nice that my heals do more points of recovery. Extra experience would lessen negative impact of changes maybe. Edited July 11, 2006 by shamara

[LevinMage]

While SR certainly loses some of its advantages, some things will never change. People will still be too LAZY to make mana potions and will still use SR... I dont think that many people will switch to making mana potions because of this change. If people were concerned about money, they would have been making mana potions before the change like I have been doing.

 

And as mentioned earlier, maybe a little tweaking of cooldown with mana potions since ~3 mana potions(30 eth points) = 1 SR (20 eth points) with cooldown as of this moment. Otherwise a little too much advantage for mana potions makers.

Edited July 11, 2006 by LevinMage

[storm]

Vials do need to be reduced. Not sure the best option has been implimented yet workable if they were able to be made. Have to see how it plays out on the market. May be less potions sold though as low and mid level potion makers save them for themselves or friends to use.

 

New day - Fasting day, seems like no alch/manu day except you are hungry to boot.

 

Well, I suppose we will see how it works out. If not well, then Im sure there will be adjustments made.

[Lorck]

Increasing costs and effects of the spells is a very welcome feature of this update. This means that high levels in magic are rewarded, so its very interesting, increased essences and mana costs are minor things.

 

Also, the high level monsters are more interesting to be trained by the high level fighers.

 

But there are too other things that called my attention (i already mentioned those in my other post in this thread):

 

-Its way too easy to get mana making potion of mana on site. The bulk of gc made by potion makers came from srs, since people without potion skill and without nexus can get their mana, there are no need for srs anymore and therefore pot makers lost their source of in-game income;

 

-Its too dungerous to train pvp (or train on monsters in pk maps) now. An ebul pker with good magic level can score several kills by using invisibility then wait to the life of the target go bellow 40 or 45 and harm.

[the_voice]

as someone who always use mana potions for monster training i should cry of happyness now.

 

but, i think manas have now an uber advantage compared to srs. i have 10 ethereal points now for still not need any nexus to make them. therefor i suggest bring ordinary mana pots down to regain only 5 ethereal points.

 

for the other things, they all seem ok.

[Guest rlz]

4 vegetal is useless now for lot of ppl ...

reset from 107 oa for person who play w/o perks only beacuse he has 4 vegetal ...

i dont like it ...

[Kindar_Naar]

People will still be too LAZY to make mana potions and will still use SR...

 

Yes, people will still buy potions, but they will buy mana potions. Why? Because in usage 2 mana potions = 1 SR, but in price it will be rather 4 mana potions = 1 SR.

 

Since mana potions don't lose vials, you only pay for ingredients and time. On the other hand, in order to make SR you need certain level and nexus. Mana potions can be done by everyone! If you think that there is a large amount of SRs on the market, just think how many mana pots there will be. I estimate that the price will be around 2-3 gc + vial. This price makes SRs useless. The only advantage of SR now is that you receive boost of 20 at once instead of 10 and then 10.

 

My suggestion is to make mana pots loose vials as well, or at least at 50% chance. This way if someone needs a boost in fight, he will use SR. If someone needs to 'heal' after fight, he will use mana pots. This way both potions will find use and there will be a merket for vials manufactures.

 

Another option is to make SRs give 30-40 ep instead of 20.

 

EDIT: typos

 

EDIT: All in all I do consider this update very good, but I believe that mana post/SRs needs balancing.

Edited July 11, 2006 by Kindar Naar

[dejan]

I agree with EVERYTHING - just PLEASE update the ENCYCLOPEDIA with new data!

[crus]

Greetings all...

 

I have somewhat been known as a person who sometimes bitches about updates and stuff, but rarely tho ..

 

This time however, when included both the client and this server update all i can say is GREAT!.

Seriosly, game got changed BIG TIME!, especially for fighters/pkers, sooo much strategy with invisib spell, so much more posibilities with "new" harm spell, for example, now a group of mages can take a STRONG fighter no problem, which before was inpossible.

Not to mention new shiney armors and stuff.

 

I still think we do need a somewhat unique items and "random" event's/quests/triggerted monsters or such.

 

Over and out!

[LadyReni]

I believed new spells will be availble just for high magic skilled players, as a kind of reward that they trained that skill so hard ... but potions.. those will be used by anyone, unfair in my opinion.

SRs/mana pots issue ... unbalanced.

No vials after using a potion seems ok, but I'd rather see that effect with all potions. On the other hand summoning becomes more expensive again (lots of SRs used, now additional cost - vials).

[NitageR]

Thx for made me losing 45M oa exp I love you guys!!!! I took 4 veg to make srs on spawn while training. Now 4 veg is useless for me. Just great, next wasted pickpoints. I wont reset 132 oa perkless. Have a nice day

 

 

 

I am not bitching, but it seems that expensive already training a/d and summon can be TOO expansive now - vials cost.

Edited July 11, 2006 by NitageR

[Kedan]

I like most of the idea's. And i agree there was to many vials in the game, way to many, and this might help, it might also be a bit to much, we will have to wait and see.

 

If it does take to many out of the game be able to make the vials or making it so all potions except feasting potions give vials could fix this.

 

Only problem i see is that now the sr's are basicly usless, which means the potioners best selling item is now gone and people will be using mana pots, which they can ofcourse make themselfs.

 

the 3 new potions could bring more market to potioners but i dont see them being big sellers, just potions they buy every now and then.

 

another thing i would suggest doing is making sr's more usefull. This could be by lowering the time o cooldown, or i would most likly increase the amount of ep giving, i would say about 30 ep

[TooMass]

i did damage by harm almost 50hp....i think it's to much and it should be little bit less because players have about 150hp. So in 3 sec i can kill 150hp player only by harm....

oh well.harm and mana drain will be very powerfull weapon now and training in pk maps much more dangerous than it was before

Edited July 11, 2006 by TooMass

[Jaclaw]

Thx for made me losing 45M oa exp wub.gif I love you guys!!!! biggrin.gif I took 4 veg to make srs on spawn while training. Now 4 veg is useless for me. Just great, next wasted pickpoints. I wont reset 132 oa perkless. Have a nice day wub.gif wub.gif

 

 

ph34r.gif

 

I am not bitching, but it seems that expensive already training a/d and summon can be TOO expansive now - vials cost.

 

Exacly give me my ~100mln xp back

and ess which i have lost on magic training, becausue now it beeter to use pots....

Edited July 11, 2006 by Jaclaw

[anthropologist]

I agree with kedan entirely

[Joshyboy]

I agree with Lorck with alot of what hes been saying.

 

Potion makers have already been hurt alot with this update with no one buying srs. I know some of the HUGE potion makers have stores of over 15k and im ready to make 10k srs at a drop of a hat. I like the idea of reducing the amout of vials but this as with alot of other players is my only source of income.

 

I do look foward to making some money on inv pots but i dont think its going to be enough with mira already selling them for 210gc. This should be raised quit alot seen as it takes a high lvl magic lvl to cast and a high lvl potion maker to make and should be worth more.

 

I like the rest of the update.

[masterpiter]

Hi all

Im 405 mili oa exp atm, perkless, 20pp free, every next oa is 20m oa exp, so 4 oa=80mili oa exp and

i took veg 4 only cous i could make srs on spawn, so i didnt needed such big p/c (p44c60 at a123/d134)

Now when mana pots r better than srs i will have 2 reset

not cous i did some mistakes on my character build, but only cous some suggestion which was implemented

maybe next time i reach 140+oa p/c will loose on meaning?so every1 will take only vitality/will/reasoning?

Anyways, i will have 2 reset cous of making 4 vegetal useless 4 figters, i still think that maybe some changes may be undone so i will w8 with reset some time, well, im probably just silly

thx 4 teh pr0 change

cu around in eL

 

eMPi

[Infamous]

losing vials when drinking a potion is unrealistic, i got antisocial so where should i get vials now?

buying them makes me loose even more money or i have to use mana potions which decrease my training time and thus less money from drops.

players need more money not less so i suggest a npc that buy's vials instead. (maybe 1 or 2gc each?)

 

edit: and harm is too much imo

Edited July 11, 2006 by Hardcore

[Istiach]

losing vials when drinking a potion is unrealistic, i got antisocial so where should i get vials now?

buying them makes me loose even more money or i have to use mana potions which decrease my training time and thus less money from drops.

players need more money not less so i suggest a npc that buy's vials instead. (maybe 1 or 2gc each?)

Why do u think it is caled NEGATIVE perk?

 

And to the changes; IMO srs and minor mana should be tweaked, because minor mana is to good now.

Edited July 11, 2006 by Istiach