Jump to content
Eternal Lands Official Forums
Sign in to follow this  
GarfieldClowntje

Flower/Economy Problem

Recommended Posts

Actually my friend harvested BL in PL and he earned enough for CoL in two days...

 

Mindless walking to and fro a flower bush is not my idea of entertainment.

 

Nobody forces you to do so though...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually my friend harvested BL in PL and he earned enough for CoL in two days...

 

Mindless walking to and fro a flower bush is not my idea of entertainment.

 

Nobody forces you to do so though...

 

Right. And I think that you couldn't force many other players to do so either. Which only proves my point - the influence of flower money on the EL economy is negligible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What would you suggest then?

 

My only point is that focusing on flower money is not going to help.

 

I have made some suggestions in the past but they have all been ignored so I don't see why I should repeat myself. Especially that I haven't been the only person to propose those things.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let's remember to make constructive criticism.

 

And the old VOTD Lillac bush was overkill imho....

 

The game is suppose to be challenging. That's what makes it fun ;-)

 

 

- Sistema.

 

 

On the contrary. Being easy is what makes a game fun.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This may have been mentioned before but to keep newbie's money in play why dont we drop the sell prices as harvesting lvl goes up, but then maybe peopl might make accounts just to make money with low harvesting then give to themself somehow

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The game is suppose to be challenging. That's what makes it fun ;-)

On the contrary. Being easy is what makes a game fun.

And here is one of the biggest problems. One person's fun is another's nightmare. So you try to make a game that has both easy playing ability and challenging playing ability. Which imo EL has.

 

The problem comes up when you have to make the decision as to whether or not to make the rewards correspond with the level of game play. Which is where we are at now. To make one group happy, by default will piss off the other group. Unless you make two separate "games", easy and challenging, I don't see how to make everybody happy when it comes to how to determine who "deserves" to have lots of gc and all the top gear.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The game is suppose to be challenging. That's what makes it fun ;-)

On the contrary. Being easy is what makes a game fun.

And here is one of the biggest problems. One person's fun is another's nightmare. So you try to make a game that has both easy playing ability and challenging playing ability. Which imo EL has.

 

The problem comes up when you have to make the decision as to whether or not to make the rewards correspond with the level of game play. Which is where we are at now. To make one group happy, by default will piss off the other group. Unless you make two separate "games", easy and challenging, I don't see how to make everybody happy when it comes to how to determine who "deserves" to have lots of gc and all the top gear.

 

 

The choice can't be done as simultaneous, but as a gradation:

 

Extreme example of game designed for person who wants it to be easy:

Goals all achieved within a month, nothing more to do within game, go find another easy game.

 

Extreme example Game designed for person who wants it to be hard:

Goals not achieved for two years, people lose interest with repetition and no advancement, go find another game.

 

You can't build for easy and build for hard. You have to build for a moderate and tick of both sides, a little.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The game is suppose to be challenging. That's what makes it fun ;-)

On the contrary. Being easy is what makes a game fun.

And here is one of the biggest problems. One person's fun is another's nightmare. So you try to make a game that has both easy playing ability and challenging playing ability. Which imo EL has.

 

The problem comes up when you have to make the decision as to whether or not to make the rewards correspond with the level of game play. Which is where we are at now. To make one group happy, by default will piss off the other group. Unless you make two separate "games", easy and challenging, I don't see how to make everybody happy when it comes to how to determine who "deserves" to have lots of gc and all the top gear.

 

 

The choice can't be done as simultaneous, but as a gradation:

 

Extreme example of game designed for person who wants it to be easy:

Goals all achieved within a month, nothing more to do within game, go find another easy game.

 

Extreme example Game designed for person who wants it to be hard:

Goals not achieved for two years, people lose interest with repetition and no advancement, go find another game.

 

You can't build for easy and build for hard. You have to build for a moderate and tick of both sides, a little.

 

Agreed, it should be of moderate difficulty to keep interest of as many people as possible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

You can't build for easy and build for hard. You have to build for a moderate and tick of both sides, a little.

 

Agreed, it should be of moderate difficulty to keep interest of as many people as possible.

 

This is of course a simplification, because you have to look at each style of playing the game in these terms. To desimplify slightly:

 

It should be moderately difficult to play a fighter style character.

It should be moderately difficult to play a mage style character.

It should be moderately difficult to play a summoner style character..

 

Etc...

 

Clearly this game has not achieved a balance to where such things are the case. It's a definite work in progress, but that's why it's free and labeled as beta.

 

With this in mind, I would consider discussion of money bushes as outside of the ream of too easy vs. too challenging. I would consider them a necessary crutch until such time as the economy is stable on its own two feet. They give professions who are not economically viable (which moves things towards extreme too hard) an outside option. Ent is actively working on changing things to the point where the economy flows correctly. I cannot say if the money trees will disappear at this point in time. My suspicion is that the money tree will not be so popular once players can make sufficient cash by doing what they want to be doing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With this in mind, I would consider discussion of money bushes as outside of the ream of too easy vs. too challenging.

I disagree.

A lot of the economy issues focus on who has access to which items, who can afford them, and the fact nobody wants the lesser items because it's just too easy because of the money tree for all levels of players to make good gc and acquire the best in a very short period of time.

 

Easy playing vs challenging is very much part of the economy, and the flower discussion. The player who wants easy playing may do so for a variety of reasons: He's not very good at the game, has a very limited amount of time, or he has had a long day at work and wants nothing more than the appearance of playing a game but in reality wants to just relax and chat and have cool stuffz0rs. Whatever the reasons, these people want the good stuff as much as the dedicated leveler, without the work and hassle. The money tree IS the epitome of "easy playing", which imo does hurt the economy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I disagree.

A lot of the economy issues focus on who has access to which items, who can afford them, and the fact nobody wants the lesser items because it's just too easy because of the money tree for all levels of players to make good gc and acquire the best in a very short period of time.

 

Easy playing vs challenging is very much part of the economy, and the flower discussion. The player who wants easy playing may do so for a variety of reasons: He's not very good at the game, has a very limited amount of time, or he has had a long day at work and wants nothing more than the appearance of playing a game but in reality wants to just relax and chat and have cool stuffz0rs. Whatever the reasons, these people want the good stuff as much as the dedicated leveler, without the work and hassle. The money tree IS the epitome of "easy playing", which imo does hurt the economy.

 

I agree that it currently has that effect. Let me rephrase what I am trying to say:

 

1. I do not believe that the money tree is part of Ents overall vision for the EL game design and balance, but rather a temporary patch implemented to keep afloat people who want to play characters that have few viable economic possibilities, currently.

 

2. In this belief, my conjecture is that the money tree will disappear when people have further economic avenues.

 

With this in mind, I think that discussing the money tree in terms of game design is not viable, as the money tree is outside of the game design and is temporary.

 

If however, points 1 and 2 are not correct (and only Ent knows), I believe that they should be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But the game IS divided into easy and hard.

Easy: safe maps

Hard: dangerous maps and pk maps

 

Also: untill reading this thread I never knew there were special mney trees that harvest quicker (and I'm playing since last fall) !!!! :angry:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But the game IS divided into easy and hard.

Easy: safe maps

Hard: dangerous maps and pk maps

 

Not particularly in terms of this discussion. Sure, any player can limit their goals to that which is easy to attain and they point at which they stop striving is "easy." But where do you set that limit? Maybe only IP is easy. Maybe IP plus VotD... Where my character is at, everything up to MM is "easy." (It's all safe for me, now.) But anyway, the point is the amount of effort to reach the highest goals. Right now, it's a valid objection to say that money trees make the goals too easy to reach. My point is that thats a temporary hiccup that will (should) be worked worked out as things that are making the goals too hard are resolved.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest MHGameWork

Maybe increasing the prices of other items helps. Example: it takes 5 min at harvest lvl 14 to get 50 gc by selling flowers, but it takes one hour to get 50 gc by creating and selling fire essences???? fire essences are worth more i think, also for other items. The prices are just to close to eachother. now you better get 5 flower than 1 essence. and by increasing difference, you should get more for 1 fire than for 5 flowers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With this in mind, I would consider discussion of money bushes as outside of the ream of too easy vs. too challenging.

I disagree.

A lot of the economy issues focus on who has access to which items, who can afford them, and the fact nobody wants the lesser items because it's just too easy because of the money tree for all levels of players to make good gc and acquire the best in a very short period of time.

 

Easy playing vs challenging is very much part of the economy, and the flower discussion. The player who wants easy playing may do so for a variety of reasons: He's not very good at the game, has a very limited amount of time, or he has had a long day at work and wants nothing more than the appearance of playing a game but in reality wants to just relax and chat and have cool stuffz0rs. Whatever the reasons, these people want the good stuff as much as the dedicated leveler, without the work and hassle. The money tree IS the epitome of "easy playing", which imo does hurt the economy.

 

 

This is a valid argument, however, one of the biggest issues i see with the game is near deity level players whom through their dedication to the game early on built up their characters to ridiculous levels before all the recent updates occured.

 

A couple examples - Those who built a skill like manu on vegies as opposed to feasting pots before cooldowns were implemented... those who built their alch level on fire essences of all silly things, before they got kneecapped and handicapped by the last update (crippling action).

 

Inshort players who have been in the game for a long time had it so easy to build up their levels as opposed to new players who have to climb Mt Everest ... as opposed to hiking up a small hill. (no need to mention the great reset/meltdown of server)

 

An idea to level the field a bit might be no cooldowns until you hit OA 30 or 50 or so ... letting players build up on an even basis to earlier players...

 

just a thought anyway..

 

as to the Money tree ... if you want to spend a week there ... so you can support people who make stuff in the game ... --- It's all good all around... manu people make money,,, alch people make money,,, crafters make money,,, fools that buy things that way get their shiny's ,,,, and the Pk scum that kill them get new stuff to steal ... which makes the bottom suckers happy,,,

 

In short everyone is happy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×