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ttlanhil

allow people with #accept to #change_rank

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I did a search, and some similar stuff did come up, but not quite the same.

 

as it is now, I, as a rank 19, can set someone to 15.

that means they can #accept people into the guild.

but while people can be accepted into the guild while no (co-)leader is online, they can't be given the ability to #gm, which is, at least to AID, one of the most important parts of being in a guild.

 

personally, I think being able to give someone membership, which comes with the responsibility of acting as a representative of the guild (the tag and all), is more important than being able to let them chat with the guild. so it seems a little backwards to me.

 

I'd like to see rank 15 people able to #change_rank, even if it's only within ranks 1-5.

if there's a reason that people may want members to be able to #accept but not #change_rank, well, how about rank 16 then? co-caps can then set a slightly higher rank recruiter as able to voice a new member as well.

 

existing guilds may need to adust the ranks of some recruiters, but I expect most people would welcome the change (those who don't, well, don't need to change anyone from 15 to 16)

 

ed:oh yeah, and #rank <name> should be extended down to 15/16 as well

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I suggested this once before, but in my suggestion, when you got accepted into a guild, you were automatically rank 5, and for those guilds that don't use #gm to chat, they can put the rank back to 0.

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if there's a reason that people may want members to be able to #accept but not #change_rank, well, how about rank 16 then?

Is there a difference between rank 16 and 18, because iirc from my mucking about on the test server rank 18 can #accept and #change_rank

 

/edit: Hmmm, thinking about it rank 18 does open up other things able to be changed. Allowing rank 15 to change_rank to 5 would be handy.

Edited by Torg

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iirc from my mucking about on the test server rank 18 can #accept and #change_rank
maybe, but it's not the case on main server. I just tested and rank 18 can't #change_rank or #rank <name>

they can #accept, of course :huh:

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maybe, but it's not the case on main server. I just tested and rank 18 can't #change_rank or #rank <name>

they can #accept, of course :huh:

lol... well I guess you can completely disregard my last post cos it was not only irrelevant and useless, but completely wrong as well. Oops. :-P

 

 

/edit: Damn typos

Edited by Torg

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well my guild doesn't use #gm for general chat but i would like to see a couple more ranks have the #change_rank ability, maybe include 18's and maybe 17's. i think it could help out with promotions and the like.

 

since we're on guild functions, i would like to bring back the idea of bringing #ig up a bit so low lvl disgruntled's cant cause trouble like i saw in the past maybe at least 4 if not 5 that way depending on the way a guild operates it could make it a priviledge to use. and can b taken away from - i would at least like to see it raised to rank 1 at least, that way people can be muted from using it if need be.

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Definatly agree on the IG bit. It is good thing to be able to block a member from doing GM's yet even at the lowest rank they can still IG other guilds. We had one guild member who caused no end of trouble with this. Trying to enter an alliance with another guild and he was upset and spammed the IG channel. IG should be set to at least rank 6 or above.

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I agree with Ttl on this, it would be good if there was a rank (15 or 16) that could both recruit and change the rank 1-5.

 

since we're on guild functions, i would like to bring back the idea of bringing #ig up a bit so low lvl disgruntled's cant cause trouble like i saw in the past maybe at least 4 if not 5 that way depending on the way a guild operates it could make it a priviledge to use. and can b taken away from - i would at least like to see it raised to rank 1 at least, that way people can be muted from using it if need be.

 

Definatly agree on the IG bit. It is good thing to be able to block a member from doing GM's yet even at the lowest rank they can still IG other guilds. We had one guild member who caused no end of trouble with this. Trying to enter an alliance with another guild and he was upset and spammed the IG channel. IG should be set to at least rank 6 or above.

 

Thats another issue and if u want to discuss that you can search for the thread about it and coment on that there.

Edited by Entris

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I agree with Ttl on this, it would be good if there was a rank (15 or 16) that could both recruit and change the rank 1-5.

 

since we're on guild functions, i would like to bring back the idea of bringing #ig up a bit so low lvl disgruntled's cant cause trouble like i saw in the past maybe at least 4 if not 5 that way depending on the way a guild operates it could make it a priviledge to use. and can b taken away from - i would at least like to see it raised to rank 1 at least, that way people can be muted from using it if need be.

 

Definatly agree on the IG bit. It is good thing to be able to block a member from doing GM's yet even at the lowest rank they can still IG other guilds. We had one guild member who caused no end of trouble with this. Trying to enter an alliance with another guild and he was upset and spammed the IG channel. IG should be set to at least rank 6 or above.

 

Thats another issue and if u want to discuss that you can search for the thread about it and coment on that there.

 

so it can CONTINUE to get ignored right? - and it's not really another issue, it's guild permisions at certain ranks and this falls into the same category - BOTH need to b implimented and ignoring 1 to talk about another isn't going to help

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so it can CONTINUE to get ignored right? - and it's not really another issue, it's guild permisions at certain ranks and this falls into the same category - BOTH need to b implimented and ignoring 1 to talk about another isn't going to help
so you'd rather bog down one idea with the other and get it forgotten than attack one at a time?

seriously, it had its thread. however right it may be, this isn't the thread about it

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so it can CONTINUE to get ignored right? - and it's not really another issue, it's guild permisions at certain ranks and this falls into the same category - BOTH need to b implimented and ignoring 1 to talk about another isn't going to help
so you'd rather bog down one idea with the other and get it forgotten than attack one at a time?

seriously, it had its thread. however right it may be, this isn't the thread about it

actually, by my limited understanding of programming languages, if the code is anywhere near clean the guild commands and ranks should b close together. therefore while editing 1, it would be more efficient to edit the other as well instead of asking it to be redone again and again.

 

it would be better to get a list of changes needing to b done so that they can b implimented at 1ce. that way, instead of ppl arguing w/ eachother over which change is which, they should be discussing all desired changes in order to create a list that can b done all at 1ce.

 

btw, as for my limited experience, cell definitions in lotus, or excel (that's code similar to basic), VB applications, even HTML and javascript can't be scattered all over the place. meaning that you can't have "if such and such" here then go on to a totally unrelated function for awhile, then later go back to to that event and b able to find it at another time easily(at least w/ lotus/excel, or JS) , even if by some fluke, u can get it to work like that. (just like HTML u can't put a table in the middle of a frame souce page or CSS stylesheet expecting it to be seen.)

 

they BOTH are changes the guild system could use, (needs imo) so getting a list together and pushing for the whole list so it can be done at 1ce saving a small bit of time and headache for the 1 who codes it, instead of having them go in and do 1 thing, just to turn around and go BACK IN to the same part to change it again unnecessarily, when a list of things can be done right then.

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Am not in power to accept/change rank in a guild, but what was proposed above is right. Once you're in guild allowed to recruit new people you should be able to change their rank (maybe for levels 15÷18 only up to 5?)

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they BOTH are changes the guild system could use, (needs imo) so getting a list together and pushing for the whole list so it can be done at 1ce saving a small bit of time and headache for the 1 who codes it, instead of having them go in and do 1 thing, just to turn around and go BACK IN to the same part to change it again unnecessarily, when a list of things can be done right then.

That's not quite the issue, the issue is it is harder to discuss to seperate topics (merit and reasoning etc) in one thread. They should both be discussed individually.

 

Sure, the coding should be done simultaniously, but Ent and Learner (the only server devs atm) both read these forums and would know of both issues, so it is up to them to code them both at the same time if they want it changed. Unfortunatly, it appears that Ent doesn't think either an issue and doesn't care about them. *shrug* Not much we can do about that unfortunatly.

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whole guild ranking system blows

there need to be some changes

 

now rank 5 is the same as rank 14 ..u should get something evry rank u climb up

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whole guild ranking system blows

there need to be some changes

 

now rank 5 is the same as rank 14 ..u should get something evry rank u climb up

Most of the benefits of a higher guild rank should be handled by the guild, not the game server.

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they BOTH are changes the guild system could use, (needs imo) so getting a list together and pushing for the whole list so it can be done at 1ce saving a small bit of time and headache for the 1 who codes it, instead of having them go in and do 1 thing, just to turn around and go BACK IN to the same part to change it again unnecessarily, when a list of things can be done right then.
as torg pointed out, discussing ideas doesn't map 1-to-1 with implementation. and like I said before, why bog down one idea with something else that's already been discussed (want to bring it up again? add something interesting to said other thread)

 

If I got The Word that a bunch of reasonable suggested changes to the system would be implemented, I'd make up a list of things and get public comment... failing that happening, it's better to keep to one thread per idea.

 

besides, who are you to say that they don't have changing the ability to #ig on the todo list? in which case, this change would be added at the same time anyway... I know I often have a todo list, which can get reshuffled and have stuff stuck in wherever appropriate

 

 

Once you're in guild allowed to recruit new people you should be able to change their rank (maybe for levels 15÷18 only up to 5?)
pretty much what I'm after; but I'll accept that some people may want recruiter seperate from able to de/voice (although I don't know why, at least this way around, since #gm seems a lot less important than #accept (which gives #ig)... on the other hand, if 15 could #change_rank and it took 16 to #accept, I'd see a reason to seperate them)

 

 

Unfortunatly, it appears that Ent doesn't think either an issue and doesn't care about them. *shrug* Not much we can do about that unfortunatly.
it may be less that he doesn't care and more that it's more work to do... there are a lot of things that could be done if only there were the coders to do them(and ent does a lot more than just grinding out code)

 

 

now rank 5 is the same as rank 14 ..u should get something evry rank u climb up
there's not enough 'something's to fill all the empty ranks. currently, anyway. but making the ranks matter more would be handy

 

 

Most of the benefits of a higher guild rank should be handled by the guild, not the game server.
now that's silly. rank is a formal system, set up to deal with formalised access to abilities. any association between ranks and status/abilities/titles/whatever done by the guild is informal in as much as that it's localised and doesn't have to be strictly enforced. it's a matter of using formal rank to indicate informal status; which is (apart from the Ranks That Matter(1)) mostly useless, since only rank 19 can find out ranks anyway (a guild is going to use ranks for something, but not record who is/does what on a website/whatever anyway? pshaw)

until and unless guild leadership can define in-game abilities according to rank (or other), which is a lot more compilcated and almost does away with a need for ranks anyway (it'd be a bunch of status flags... Player can: set ranks(possibly with a limit, eg 5)/statuses(again, limited, eg: able to #gm), can #gm, can boot people from #jc guild... etc etc), using guild rank to indicate anything other than access to commands is for appearances only

 

(1): the ranks where new commands are available (or existing ones change). AFAIK: 0(if you count that), 5, 15, 19, and 20

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so it can CONTINUE to get ignored right? - and it's not really another issue, it's guild permisions at certain ranks and this falls into the same category - BOTH need to b implimented and ignoring 1 to talk about another isn't going to help

 

Don't get me wrong i'd like that (ig) change as well but bringing it up in another thread with a diffrent issue will only lead to a derail of the point of the thread, all of a sudden ppl would start talking about the "other" idea and not the one the person (in this case Ttl) was suggesting, when that happens ppl lose interest in the first suggestion and doesn't care about saying what they think about it.

 

I'm sure Entropy and Learner knows about these suggestions and if and when they have time they might implement it but thats something time will tell.

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Just throwing not asked opinion. #ig should be allowed only for lvl 15+.
grr. grr, I say. I already said that this should be dealt with in that other thread, and you should know better. (plus... 15+? there's more spare room in the 6-14 range. although a leader's version that one 18+ can see or send may be handy. and no, I don't want commentary on either point)

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Just throwing not asked opinion. #ig should be allowed only for lvl 15+.
grr. grr, I say. I already said that this should be dealt with in that other thread, and you should know better. (plus... 15+? there's more spare room in the 6-14 range. although a leader's version that one 18+ can see or send may be handy. and no, I don't want commentary on either point)

 

ok ttl w/ that i see u'r point and apologize...

 

...ok back on track i think #change_rank should be pry closer to rank 17 imo. in the few guild's i've been in - including the guild i own now - that's the rank that starts to have REAL say in the decisions, and know most of the inner workings of the guild that most of the lower ranks don't even have much interest in yet.

 

maybe ranks 17/18 could be able to use #change_rank to be able to change up to rank 15, letting the higher ranks choose who becomes part of the guild's decision makers.

 

also i think other commands related to that should b changed as well, even 1 directly related to that but i won't bring that up here. (them being the 1 from b4 and the directly related 1 being #rank for reasons that again, i will not put here.)

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...ok back on track i think #change_rank should be pry closer to rank 17 imo. in the few guild's i've been in - including the guild i own now - that's the rank that starts to have REAL say in the decisions, and know most of the inner workings of the guild that most of the lower ranks don't even have much interest in yet.
okay, I see a problem here, and that's that some guilds use ranks for anything other than access to commands. yes, this is a problem, because it will not be consistent (and some guilds don't do this at all)

any status beyond access to commands cannot be codified in the game system, it's part of the guild. as such, it's not really a point that can be considered for the game system

maybe ranks 17/18 could be able to use #change_rank to be able to change up to rank 15, letting the higher ranks choose who becomes part of the guild's decision makers.
okay, 19 can set public info and such, so perhaps set 18 as the people who can give recruiter status (which is rank 15; people who find contacts, and then get rank 15+s to use the commands notwithstanding)

but that said... why is the status of a decision maker based on rank? granted, at 5 you can talk on #gm, at 15 you can add people the the guild... but so what? decision making, unless it's completely authoritarian (ie: rank 20 decides stuff, everyone else obeys), it'll be done based on social interaction. there's no weighting based on ranks in any in-game voting system.

ranks reflect status in the guild (I earn the right to recruit people? I get 15. I earn admin abilities? 19), not the other way around, rank is only a command-access thing

and while some guilds may use rank as an indicator of time in the guild, service, or whatever else, it's based on the social aspects being shown by rank, not the other way around

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Ok... but why not to just provide fewer guild ranks? 20 is quite much and leaves lots of quasi-equal ranks.

Example:

1 - recruit;

2 - member (#gm)

3 - oldtimer (#ig)

4 - recruiter (#accept)

5 - maintainer (setting guild description and crap, set rank up to 2)

6 - co-leaders (change rank up to 5; #ig_block, etc)

7 - guildmaster

Edited by Vanyel

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okay, 19 can set public info and such, so perhaps set 18 as the people who can give recruiter status (which is rank 15; people who find contacts, and then get rank 15+s to use the commands notwithstanding)

but that said... why is the status of a decision maker based on rank? granted, at 5 you can talk on #gm, at 15 you can add people the the guild... but so what? decision making, unless it's completely authoritarian (ie: rank 20 decides stuff, everyone else obeys), it'll be done based on social interaction. there's no weighting based on ranks in any in-game voting system.

ranks reflect status in the guild (I earn the right to recruit people? I get 15. I earn admin abilities? 19), not the other way around, rank is only a command-access thing

and while some guilds may use rank as an indicator of time in the guild, service, or whatever else, it's based on the social aspects being shown by rank, not the other way around

because social interaction doesn't always work. when some1 creates a guild - sometimes they have speciffic views of what that guild should be and recruits ppl that think on the same end as that. so there will be suggestions from newer recruits that don't coincide w/ the direction the guild is meant to go in. therefore, in even more guilds that i've been in have made mini-governments where councils talk over suggestions mede by everybody and come to decisions in policy, that way while everybody's voice counts it won't necessarily change the direction of policy.

 

could u imagine how the development of this game would go if every suggestion that ppl liked was implimented whether it fit w/ the game or not? or even a company that new hires could set policy because other ppl liked it? it would lead to complete chaos.

 

so structures are created in the guilds to keep some form of order to keep things running smoothly. otherwise guilds would never get bigger than a few ppl that are friends or would be just high numbers of random ppl of which those ppl were doing whatever they wanted, most likely to the ruin of the guild.

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therefore, in even more guilds that i've been in have made mini-governments where councils talk over suggestions mede by everybody and come to decisions in policy, that way while everybody's voice counts it won't necessarily change the direction of policy.
read what I said again. being on a council is a social status, not constrained by rank(really, it is, even though rank19+ is typically the leadership).

they are seperate things.

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rank though helps show that social status and particulary in my guild, promotions are based on what ppl do and how they act and they have to work their way up. promotions aren't given willy-nilly to whoever i like because of their ideas - and my doing it this way helps to keep my guildies active, because if they aren't they don't advance.

 

so my guild and other guilds i know of add things to ranksthat the game CAN'T incorporate, and each guild has it's own ideas of where those can be set.

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