Jezebelle Report post Posted February 10, 2006 As much as i have always liked and enjoyed the Ants ingame, I do not like the fact they seem to be above any Law and Rules in this World. As of yesterday, the Ants have invaded my house. My house you say? yes..my house, once bought by my dearest freind, who made me stay in this World and who has always stood by me in my darkest hours. He left it to me, when he was forced to leave this World. I know there is no lock on it, but up until now, everyone has respected the pivacy of 'my'home. The Ants have taken over now, and ofcourse, perhaps Learner didnt know it was 'my'house. I asked for help, many times, and finaly i got answered that the Ants are above every rule ingame. So..in other words; I can be lagged out anytime the Ants please.. This is not just about the fact they invade my house, but more so about te fact the Ants are able and permitted to cause lag..I ask you all; is that right? Jez Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scafativ Report post Posted February 10, 2006 As much as i have always liked and enjoyed the Ants ingame, I do not like the fact they seem to be above any Law and Rules in this World. ... Jez What rule are they violating? They may be rude, but that's the thing about AI. I have yet to see them break a rule. scafativ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Atlantis Report post Posted February 10, 2006 They also block bridges, bagjump, and have been known to actually steal people's spawns! If they really are indeed just there for 'AI Intelligence' then please just move them to the test server, no one really wants them here Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NitageR Report post Posted February 10, 2006 Ants are cool Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tanyia Report post Posted February 10, 2006 I've never seen them go AFK on a bridge/path and block it, the way players do. As for spawns and bagjumping, well, those are not illegal anyway. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Placid Report post Posted February 10, 2006 The ants are NOT above the law in this world Jezebelle. They are a fun and intelligent addition to the game, in which Learner has spent a lot of time developing and refining. Im sorry they entered your nice little home, but come on, is it REALLY that bad? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jezebelle Report post Posted February 10, 2006 As much as i have always liked and enjoyed the Ants ingame, I do not like the fact they seem to be above any Law and Rules in this World. ... Jez What rule are they violating? They may be rude, but that's the thing about AI. I have yet to see them break a rule. scafativ i.m.o they break sevreal rules: 2. No Harassment. Harassment is not limited to the type of language used; it encompasses the intent. This includes both clear and implied language or actions that are systematically and/or continually unwanted and annoying. This further includes the distribution, release or discussion of any real-life, personal, or private information about other players, moderators or volunteers of Eternal Lands. Repeatedly targeting a specific player or persons with harassment will result in severe consequences. 3. Respect Others. You must respect the rights of others and their rights to enjoy this game.In order to show proper respect, you may not defraud, harass, threaten, insult, name call, or cause distress and/or unwanted attention to other members, moderators, volunteers, or developers. Do not advocate, start or participate in any discussions that are racist, sexist, anti-religious, anti-ethnic, anti-gay or other hatemongering philosophies, or anything that is sexually explicit in public. Do not organize nor be a part of any guilds or groups within Eternal Lands or their forums that do so. Do not patronize, mislead, or take advantage of people as they become acquainted with the environment and make beginner's mistakes. 8. No Character Creation Spamming. Do not attempt to spam character creation by creating numerous characters with similar names (i.e. Player1, Player2, Player3…) or by creating numerous characters in a short period of time. ..and then i do not even mention the Bot rules, wich state that Bots are only to be in one place..and cant level up, cause I understand the meaning of these Ants, they have contributed to the progress of the game... Jez Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hyperion Report post Posted February 10, 2006 I agree with placid, they do no harm... and ppl who get iritated by them just suffer from stress and need to relax in my eyes offcourse they can cause lagg when they are in large numbers... BUT learner knows this and doesn't leave more then 10 online at one time... 10 is usually the same as in any storage... and we all know ppl go afk at storages and so do you some times jez... you have the same risk of lagging out there as you have at your place...besides what privacy do you have in your house? its not RL you know only thing you can do there is sit... you can do that anywhere there are enough places in EL which are qiet.... hyperion Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jezebelle Report post Posted February 10, 2006 (edited) The ants are NOT above the law in this world Jezebelle. They are a fun and intelligent addition to the game, in which Learner has spent a lot of time developing and refining. Im sorry they entered your nice little home, but come on, is it REALLY that bad? [PM to Derin: they break the rules] [[PM from Derin: they do O.o ] [PM from Derin: the ants are a special case, we have no specific rules there] I know they are fun, I have nothng agianst the Ants, read my post carefully..and you ask me 'is it realky that bad when they entered my home'? Yes, Placid..it is..since its not ONE Ant..but a numerous amount of them and they lag me out..they make me disconnect from the game, if thats more clear! Hyperion, I suggest you get to know the facts before you judge; you say Learner has no more then 10 Ants online/in a place at the same time? Then how do you explaine the fact that more then 15 Ants were in my house? ^^ Jez Edited February 10, 2006 by Jezebelle Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Placid Report post Posted February 10, 2006 Then forum PM Learner and discuss this Jeze. There is little input from anyone else here as Learner is in control of them. They are not breaking any rules. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Derin Report post Posted February 10, 2006 Since the ants are not players or can think like a human, they cannot harass, respect others or character creation spam. The ants are not breaking any rules. And for the PM you sent me Jeze, I seriously thought it was a joke. And no areas are private in that sense, if you want ppl/bots/creatures to stay out of "your" house - get a guard bot. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torg Report post Posted February 10, 2006 (edited) I for one enjoy the ants and I from time to time find the latest ant hill purely to sit and watch how they work. I am fascinated by the AI and excited by the idea of what they are being developed for (and scared - Learner that's going to be one scary place - looking forward to it!!). I have never been lagged out at one of the ant hills, and I often get get lagged out at storages so I'm not really sure what you are worried about. Come on - 15 ant's? You certainly can't handle being near Raven or Molgor during the busy parts of the day can you? I don't have any problems with them and would be disappointed if they left. /edit: Typos Edited February 10, 2006 by Torg Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aislinn Report post Posted February 10, 2006 Houses were bought in name only, it gives you the right to have a cute little message when you enter. Never in the history of EL has a "bought" house been allowed to be off limits to other players. It doesn't work that way, it never has. If you want privacy, make a map then buy the rights to have it ingame for $200 like everybody else. And Derin summed it up right...the rules you quoted are based on intent...Ants are not human and do not stalk you...it only comes to play if there is deliberate attempt to target you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LadyWolf Report post Posted February 10, 2006 I dislike it when they gather in large numbers as well as any other player, but come on. Harrassment? omfg, they aren't capable or harrassment, they CAN"T think to do so Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torg Report post Posted February 10, 2006 I dislike it when they gather in large numbers as well as any other player, but come on. Harrassment? omfg, they aren't capable or harrassment, they CAN"T think to do so Unless Learner has programmed them with some evil intent... *looks around suspisiously*. Ok, enough of me being silly. They can't actively harass you, they might get in your way occasionally and when they blocked the VotD bridge, that was a problem.... but I have never come across a situation involving the ants that was anything other than a very minor inconvenience. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peeper :) Report post Posted February 10, 2006 As much as i have always liked and enjoyed the Ants ingame, I do not like the fact they seem to be above any Law and Rules in this World. ... Jez What rule are they violating? They may be rude, but that's the thing about AI. I have yet to see them break a rule. scafativ i.m.o they break sevreal rules: 2. No Harassment. Harassment is not limited to the type of language used; it encompasses the intent. This includes both clear and implied language or actions that are systematically and/or continually unwanted and annoying. This further includes the distribution, release or discussion of any real-life, personal, or private information about other players, moderators or volunteers of Eternal Lands. Repeatedly targeting a specific player or persons with harassment will result in severe consequences. 3. Respect Others. You must respect the rights of others and their rights to enjoy this game.In order to show proper respect, you may not defraud, harass, threaten, insult, name call, or cause distress and/or unwanted attention to other members, moderators, volunteers, or developers. Do not advocate, start or participate in any discussions that are racist, sexist, anti-religious, anti-ethnic, anti-gay or other hatemongering philosophies, or anything that is sexually explicit in public. Do not organize nor be a part of any guilds or groups within Eternal Lands or their forums that do so. Do not patronize, mislead, or take advantage of people as they become acquainted with the environment and make beginner's mistakes. 8. No Character Creation Spamming. Do not attempt to spam character creation by creating numerous characters with similar names (i.e. Player1, Player2, Player3…) or by creating numerous characters in a short period of time. ..and then i do not even mention the Bot rules, wich state that Bots are only to be in one place..and cant level up, cause I understand the meaning of these Ants, they have contributed to the progress of the game... Jez Well! when you put it like that..... breaking all those rules.... Hope you get your house back jez Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hyperion Report post Posted February 10, 2006 jez, learner told me myself... he tries to keep only 10-15 ants online at max... he only gets others online when needed for more testing... so dont tell me to get to know the facts plz.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Arnieman Report post Posted February 10, 2006 Kinda gotta note - these rules broken would be charges not against the bots, but against Learner for operating them as such. Bots are programs, not people. Bots cannot harass, unless a programmer behind it makes it so. (Can you prove Learner is intentionally harassing you with Ants?) Bots cannot disrespect, unless programmed for such. And, finally, bots cannot create themselves, AFAIK. There still has to be the programmer - Learner. And, I'm going to assume as large a project as the ants are, he's gotten the rule "variations" approved by Entropy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ornitorrinco Report post Posted February 10, 2006 ant queen pwns Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LadyWolf Report post Posted February 10, 2006 The ants are really cool if you stop to think about it. Several of us supply the ants with weapons and armor at times. I've also taken to giving the ant_queen books to read every once in awhile. You ought to really veiw their stats sometime, Learner linkd me to the site where their data is stored once, it's amazing what they have acomplished (even with all of us pk'ing the little pests when we get a chance.) Like it was stated, there is no place that is truely your's in this game, unless you buy a private map and a guard bot. All of us experience the grue from time to time, wether it's ants congregated, or a mass of players at one of the storages. It's something you have to learn to deal with if you are going to continue to play this game. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Atlantis Report post Posted February 10, 2006 A lot of people say 'They do no harm.' etc. They do however bagjump, and that isn't illegal yada yada yada...but why are we filling up the maps with these annoying programs that simply annoy most of the community? It didn't actually happen to me, but I was going to the ogre spawn in VC and there were at least 8 ants simply waiting at the entrance middle garg spawn that kept killing it seconds after it spawned! There were people waiting there to train, and 8 ants that attack something the instant it appears on the screen for over 12 hours straight is complete BS IMHO Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LadyWolf Report post Posted February 10, 2006 how is that different than a player occupying a spawn for 10-12 hours? it has been done before. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ornitorrinco Report post Posted February 10, 2006 AFAIK ants are a mods project concerning AI that might be useful for the game in the future. So that's why they're good. And if ants spawnsteal you, you must be very slow. When anthill was in CM I was able to get trolls before the ants like 90% of times. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Derin Report post Posted February 10, 2006 A lot of people say 'They do no harm.' etc. They do however bagjump, and that isn't illegal yada yada yada...but why are we filling up the maps with these annoying programs that simply annoy most of the community? It didn't actually happen to me, but I was going to the ogre spawn in VC and there were at least 8 ants simply waiting at the entrance middle garg spawn that kept killing it seconds after it spawned! There were people waiting there to train, and 8 ants that attack something the instant it appears on the screen for over 12 hours straight is complete BS IMHO I have yet to see and hear something about 8 ants camping a spawn for 12 hours straight. That is, as you say, "complete BS". The ants are a AI expreiment that will eventually help us make more fun or "intelligent" NPCs and such in the game. They are approved and liked or accepted by the vast majority of the EL players (well, part from you and jezebelle then). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Learner Report post Posted February 10, 2006 A lot of people say 'They do no harm.' etc. They do however bagjump, and that isn't illegal yada yada yada...but why are we filling up the maps with these annoying programs that simply annoy most of the community? It didn't actually happen to me, but I was going to the ogre spawn in VC and there were at least 8 ants simply waiting at the entrance middle garg spawn that kept killing it seconds after it spawned! There were people waiting there to train, and 8 ants that attack something the instant it appears on the screen for over 12 hours straight is complete BS IMHO Actually the ants being stuck there was a bug that has been fixed. They had problems with that specific door due to the size of the object being clicked on. The anthill was in VC for about a week to help test out being able to get out of the maze, unfortunatly they failed that particular test, so more changes are needed in their search & pathing algorthim for that type of obstical. As for why they are on the main server and not the test server, player interaction is an important part of the testing as well. Which is why Ants are willing to wander or explore PK maps as well as their growing trade & desire logic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
