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Infinate Slots in Storage?

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I'd like to point out that the claim "can't be all rounder because of storage limitation" was refuted on page 4 of this thread by all rounders (ttl and myself at the least; by the way, the task for somebody to spend some time with my post there and work out the numbers/items is still unclaimed :D). Currently I have ingredients, supplies and tools to level any skill in game in my storage, I have free storage slots and could easily free up more storage slots.

So the change from leveling one skill to leveling another isn't painful at all, no reset needed.

 

I wouldn't complain about more storage slots, but I don't think more slots are necessary and the limit provides at least a rather small (!) incentive for self-discipline, which is a good thing.

 

 

I don't know how much you and ttlanhil are part of your respective guilds or what your levels are in each skill but since you appear to be the only two all rounders who think there are enough slots it seems to me that you are not representative of the standard in the game. You may not keep items for guild mates or you might work on skills only on schedules that allow you to switch around your schedules or both but no matter whatever the reason neither of you is representative of the vast majority of all rounders in game. You can be an all rounder with the current slots because you are forced to manage it but it is getting harder and harder to do with every update. This is especially true if you are running or helping run a guild and providing your players with some of the items they need as they grow into the game.

 

At certain levels it might be possible to keep enough stuff in storage but if you are trying to be able to make everything and be able to help your guild mates with lower level stuff as well as making higher stuff for your leveling you run out of slots just as most of the all rounders posting have stated. You can make do with equipment that functions for what you are trying to do but is not the best for doing it but why should you have to shoot yourself in the foot to step forward in the game. We do need more slots and self-discipline has nothing to do with it.

 

Pick points are the limiting factor for all rounders just like everyone else. There shouldn't be anything else just like for everyone else. Who are you to decide how much discipline or scheduling or administrative work a player should have to do to achieve their goals? This game is supposed to be classless. Limiting players abilities to play the game is a direct violation of the spirit of classlessness. The more complex the game gets the more slots will be needed and as stated there is no reason not to provide them. I think since it has been decided storage will be staying the same that the game needs description needs to be changed as I said.

 

I think I also need to point out that JaminCollins missed something. If you are an all rounder then you would also want all of the stuff necessary to make your own vials instead of buying them. Oh and then vial molds can break so we need the ingredients for those too. One item in game and you need almost a quarter of your available storage slots to make and store it. Somehow we don't need any more slots though. This works how?

 

TirunCollimdus

CoGM of PATH

Perseverance And Tolerance Honored

Edited by TirunCollimdus

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I get it that way: In classes game you are limited with your pre-choice while making character and only way to change it is to make new character. While in classless game you can do whatever you want but IMO that doesnt mean you should be able to work on all skills at the same time, you should be limited(by storage size, limited number of pick points etc) to one, two or few of the skill but not all. Of course you should be able to change your choice but that should be painful(eg reset).

 

I see all rounders as people who buy mostly raw resources(if they dont get them themselve) while they less likely buy finished products because they make them themselve. So they create more suply but they dont create demmand at all for finished products.

 

Oxymoron. You cannot be able to do whatever you want and be limited at the same time. All rounders may not buy things very often but they do make stuff to sell. The economy does not function so you cannot blame all rounders for not buying stuff. All rounders have to buy the stuff they cannot make yet. When they can make everything then they have worked hard enough to be able to not have to buy things and can sell. If they have extra money they can still spend it on stuff that is drop only, buy lottery tickets, or help support the warning system or just buy nexus and removal stones to get pick points. They earned the right to a profitable character by working for it. They are still part of the economy because they are still selling even after they have bought all of the drop only items. When the game allows for a functional economy then all rounders can start buying ings to make stuff instead of supplying all of their own needs.

 

TirunCollimdus

CoGM of PATH

Perseverance And Tolerance Honored

Actually, they can work on all skills at all times, they just cant store everything. Limited storage like a limited closet space doesn't ristrict the skill you can work in. It just limits how much junk you can put in there!

 

Actually Learner restricted storage space increases the amount of time required to do things because you cannot keep things you need so you have to go get them. Not only that but as has been pointed out by numerous players there is time required and used by some to manage their storage instead of actually play the game. It does not stop you from being an all rounder as we have all agreed and proved it does however make it harder and progressively so with each new update. Eventually you will spend more time organizing storage than playing EL. Does that sound like a fun game to you?

 

I started this game because of the promise of being able to do everything. My idea of being able to do everything does not include a day planner for my storage or being guildless so I don't have to have anything but exactly what I need for myself in my storage. If you think of storage administration as a fun activity then life is great for you but the rest of us don't get our jollies from organizing and scheduling our game activities. That is why this thread exists to begin with and why it can become so active so quickly when someone picks it up again. How about a little bit of understanding for players who just want to be able to play the game instead of plan it.

 

TirunCollimdus

CoGM of PATH

Perseverance And Tolerance Honored

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I don't know how much you and ttlanhil are part of your respective guilds or what your levels are in each skill but since you appear to be the only two all rounders who think there are enough slots it seems to me that you are not representative of the standard in the game.
Then I'll elaborate :D

I don't use privacy, so anyone can check my stats and rankings... I haven't played EL for a few weeks except for an hour once or twice, but I used to be quite active.

I used to be, for a long time, co-captain of AID, and for a while I've been a recruiter in IRON. I'm not always that involved in guild stuff, the biggest part of being in a guild, for me, is the social aspect, just chatting and all; I'm enough of an all-rounder that I rarely need help from other people beyond the market (I'll get back to that).

I certainly don't create on a schedule; the idea of being an all-rounder is so I can go and do whatever I like whenever I like (it doesn't always work, but that's the plan). As such, I usually have some quantity of ingredients for whatever I do.

I don't create all items, however... First, we'll remove summoning from the list. I used to work on summoning, but I stopped that a while ago. Still have lots of fur, meat, etc, AFAIK; it wasn't due to lack of space.

I also don't usually create the low-level items like FE and WE, I try to buy them on market in bulk (as in, 1k is only sometimes enough to be worth my time. Usually I try to buy 5k-10k, although I've bought like 50k before, I think. I've gone through them fast enough that it's not crazy to buy that many). That's not to say I don't have any of the ingredients for those items, however... Some I do(sapphires, for example), some I don't(for example, the roses I usually don't stock).

As for things like vials... No, I don't make them myself, it seems more economical to get them from the NPC... I could, if I wanted to, but I don't.

Being an all-rounder doesn't mean I have to be able to make every possible item in the game at a minute's notice (although, with my stocks and PPs, I could probably make close to all, even if it took several steps like making tools... Apart from enchanted swords. I have plenty of the enriched essences, but only 1 modable, from memory), it means I can make stuff in a range of skills.

As for a classless game, that's silly. Just because there isn't a set of formal classes doesn't mean that people don't develop their own classes... However, the PP/nexus issue doesn't really do that much to prevent people from becoming masters in everything (when, IMO, you should have a choice between expert in all or master in few). It's more efficient to hire low-level players to make low-level stuff for you (as far as time goes, anyway, the economy is busted enough that it's not cost-effective for many items) when you're a high level, but you can still be at a position to make all items.

Are there things I can't make? Sure. To start with, summoning stones. But I gave up summoning and still have many ingreds. I also wouldn't really like the risk making things like dragon plate... But then, it's hardly worth making anyway. Ti plate and great swords are fine, crowns are fine, high level potions, apart from nexus 6, are fine, harvesting is fine, engineering is, AFAIK (considering I haven't tried making the new items yet), fine, I can cast high level spells, I can kill medium-high level monsters (I can kill chims, even if I don't train on them), I can alch anything (and I do things like hydro and wolf bars for some friends, since it's low-risk). I think that's all the skills covered.

 

I'll certainly grant that you can't store every single item in the game. That's a given. But then, I see no reason why you'd want to. Many of them aren't worth having. Others might be worth having some of the time (for example, tools), but you might break them... And then not make more until you need them.

Or for another example... Why keep all of the great swords in stock in case you sell one, when you can just keep the ingredients and create on demand? This also happens to be cheaper and more economical.

Maybe it takes market analysis and exploring the costs to be able to pick which few things not to keep. Maybe not. But I do know that I can have a lot of free slots while I have the items to make pretty much whatever I feel like when I feel like it.

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Yes you can keep as many slots open as you want if you want to operate at a loss. I already said that. The fact that you are not pursuing summoning or engineering definitely makes you specialized as compared to an all rounder especially considering how many ings summoning stones, summons and now the new stuff in engineering adds as well. If you are pursuing all of the skills and not doing so at a loss by paying for ings then you need a LOT more slots. If you are holding things for future guild members and current ones you just make it all the worse. I do not operate at a loss other than giving things to guild members. I make everything on my own that I need except for stuff I am not high enough to make yet. I get the ingredients for those though and then have someone make them instead of buying the items.

 

We make the lesser ingredients together as a guild and then share them out. That is part of being a good guild so yes I do need to be able to make everything in game including the lesser items. Don't buy ings and make everything with guild members so you do need to be able to do everything. That is why more storage is needed. The more items that enter the game more problematic it will become. Doing one or more classes at a time does not classify as classless it qualifies as multiclass. Being able to be a master of all things was what I was hoping for when I started. It was doable when I started without sacrificing one skill for another but that is not the case now.

 

TirunCollimdus

CoGM of PATH

Perseverance And Tolerance Honored

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Well, gee, it's almost as if you didn't read my post properly... When did I ever say I haven't been working on Engineering? Sure, I said I haven't played EL recently, so I haven't made the latest items, but look at my stats; like I said, I have levelled engineering a fair bit. And how many of the ingreds for the new items do you suppose I have in storage?

And while I don't level summoning, I still have most of the ingreds (animal parts, bones, meat, LEs, enriched essies, SRs, conj cape, gypsum, various (though not all) swords... That's probably about all the summoning stuff). I could pick up where I left off if I had the nexii.

It's not like being able to summon requires you to summon any named critter at a moment's notice; likewise with stones.

 

And buying to be at a loss? Pfft, no. I buy some of the lower levelled items to be at an advantage... Vials? look at the cost of the (breakable) molds, as well as ingreds. FEs? In the time to collect the ingredients and cart to storage, I can make more money to buy the FEs. Even more so with WEs, although I do make those as well.

 

You seem to have a problem seeing the difference between having a high level in all skills and being able to make pretty much whatever you want; and having the ingredients at hand, already made (as opposed to mixing the intermediate items when you need them, which is quite practical for any lower use items... Not for things like FE, in most cases, of course), at any given moment.

 

In the first, you don't need a full storage. I'm currently at 167; and like I said, I can make almost anything, only lacking PPs for a limited selection (I don't have the levels for reliably making bronze or dragon stuff, but I do have nearly all of the ingreds, I have some red scales, although no black ones. So this certainly isn't a failing of available storage slots).

In the second, you need one slot per item in EL, since you need to have every single item in case one day it might be useful. That includes 14 slots for great swords (normal & special), 36 slots for the lower-level swords (7 normal versions, 7 modables, 22 enchanted), etc. Clearly this is ridiculous, taken to this extreme, yet you suggest that you have to have every possibly used item ready at a moment's notice to be an all-rounder.

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Actually, they carn work on all skills at all times, they just cant store everything. Limited storagr like a limited closet space doesn't ristrict the skill you can work in. It just limits how much junk you can put in there!

 

We could keep discussing about that forever, I agree with tirun that this is a limitation to an all-rounder type of game: an indirect limitation, if you like, but one that is felt by many players.

 

I think that something should be done to improve the situation because I don't really think this is adding something good to the game: that the game be difficult that's fine by me, that you have to work hard to reach your goals idem, but that you also have to play a game in the game like "The Sims: Bank Accounting and Storage Logistics" it's not fun.

 

Difficult, hard, requiring hard work: good.

 

Boring, inconvenient, frustrating: bad.

 

Rehdon

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my guildies have been discussing this matter and most of us agree that while we are happy with our current storage space we would happily pay 5$ to have more.

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Only limitation to all-rounders seems to be their incapability of managing their storage. I have fair levels in most of the skills, except crafting and engineering. Moreover, I have all ingredients for the stuff I need and yet, over 80 slots empty (right at this moment). All that is needed for all-rounders is some planning. As ttlanhil said, you just don't have to keep every single item in the game in your wharehouse.

What would be the fun of playing if everything would be as easy as you demand.

I would propose even enhancing your idea.

Not only unlimited slots in the storages, but also they should all be filled with every single item in the game (of course unlimited amount of) by default.

 

@jamincollins

You completely missed my point. gg

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I think storage space capacity should be slightly increased, as the amount of items ingame increases. Summoning stones, new weapons/armors, lots of engineering stuff to come, maybe when all this is implemented storage should be adjusted too.

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I would like to know only one answer. What is the reason to keep all this stuff in storage at once? I seem not to understand it:/

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I'd be the first to agree that as items are added to the game there will tend to be a need for more storage space, but I don't think we're in a crisis currently. I think that storage limits are just like emu limits or any other type of limit - they encourage creative play. I don't think you need a day planner to do this (and Tirum - a day timer is just a particular brand of day planner...). If you want to make saving stones you don't need to have 40k of every ingredient on hand - buy extracts from lower-level potters and then you cut out half of the ingreds. Or just make a few extracts at a time until they're stocked up, then make the stones from there. From the prices people are discussing for saving stones I think you could afford to buy some of the ingreds when you need them...

 

As far as classed/classless goes - I agree with a previous post that EL certainly meets the definition of a classless game as-is. In a typical classed game you pick a character class at the beginning, and that greatly limits the direction your character can take. It might be an all-arounder-type class, but then it will progress slowly. It might be an uber-fighter, and it might not even be able to cast healing spells, or only cast them at a sacrifice to fighting power. EL is more classless than it is classed, although the use of PPs does allow for character individualization. If you wanted a purely classless game you might get rid of PPs and just look at skill levels and OA level - with all attributes/perks/nexus/etc being based on OA levels - two different chars with the same OA would have the EXACT same attributes (except maybe for skill levels). Personally, I like the hybrid approach that EL takes.

 

Compared to PPs the storage slot limits are an almost trivial barrier to all-arounders. If you can manage to live with having to sink so many points into nexus had having low emu as a result, you certainly can live with not being able to store every item in the game. Just don't try to do EVERYTHING in a one-hour period - even if you switch skills once per day the storage limits aren't going to be a big deal.

 

I agree that storing books for in-guild use/etc is a bit of a limitation. If a book isn't very rare you could just sell it on-market I suppose and then buy it back when needed. For rare books obviously you'll want to hang onto them, but from what I've seen most guilds aren't giving away these books left and right anyway. And hyper bags are a reasonable solution to the book problem (it might be nice if the game tracked them for you, so that you don't need a ton of records outside the game for this - a hyper-bag mapwalking feature might be nice as well (perhaps a possible source of macro-abuse though)). My suggestion on hyper-bags wasn't directed at an all-arounder so much as at somebody's comment in this discussion that they are trying to keep one of every item they've ever made in store - hyperbags would be a fine solution for that (if you absolutely must save things just for the sake of saving them).

 

I don't think this discussion has really turned up anything new in the last few rounds - obviously there are some who take both sides in this debate. For me a game is just a construct designed to make things fun - the rules/limitations serve to make the game non-trivial/boring like tic-tac-toe. Removing any and all barriers to massive levelling so that everybody can make every item in game after a month of play will just leave everybody bored. While it might be annoying at times I like the fact that I can't just do anything and everything in-game - that is the whole point of the game.

 

Sure, anything that could get rid of the grind would be good. However, I think the grind is more a matter of player psychology than anything else. Maybe having lots of creative content would help lower the grind-rate, but that isn't practical for the game creators. I'm not sure anything could make a game seem less like work for those absolutely determined to make it more like work (just think how much worse this would be if you COULD make money IRL from the game!)...

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Only limitation to all-rounders seems to be their incapability of managing their storage.

 

Yeah, sure, whatever. Time to follow another thread anyway.

 

Rehdon

 

EDIT: I manage my storage pretty fine, thank you. But that's not the point. The point is that it is not fun, it is not what I'd consider part of a role-playing game, unless you set one in Wall Street or something like that. And, as it has been repeated a number of times, things can only get worse because new items are being added to the game all the time.

 

Only limitation to non-all-rounders seems to be their inability to fully grasp the above point.

 

Now, if Ent pops in and says "that indeed was thought of as part of the game and I won't modify it" I will have to accept it, or play another game. But if that's not the case, why do people have a problem accepting the fact that other people find this "feature" quite frustrating? If there are technical reasons that prevent enlarging the store for individual players, perhaps it would be possible to resort to other measures, like guild storage or (in the future) single building storage. I only would like the problem to be acknowledged.

Edited by Rehdon

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Now, if Ent pops in and says "that indeed was thought of as part of the game and I won't modify it" I will have to accept it, or play another game.

I would have sworn he did somewhere in these forums.

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Now, if Ent pops in and says "that indeed was thought of as part of the game and I won't modify it" I will have to accept it, or play another game.

I would have sworn he did somewhere in these forums.

 

The thread goes quite far back into the EL past, I've been playing for less than a year so I surely missed it (not that I read every thread on the forums, either). Anyway, if that still is his plan for the game, so be it ...

 

Rehdon

 

PS I sincerely hope it isn't so, or that he will reconsider it :)

Edited by Rehdon

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Only limitation to all-rounders seems to be their incapability of managing their storage. I have fair levels in most of the skills, except crafting and engineering. Moreover, I have all ingredients for the stuff I need and yet, over 80 slots empty (right at this moment). All that is needed for all-rounders is some planning. As ttlanhil said, you just don't have to keep every single item in the game in your wharehouse.

What would be the fun of playing if everything would be as easy as you demand.

I would propose even enhancing your idea.

Not only unlimited slots in the storages, but also they should all be filled with every single item in the game (of course unlimited amount of) by default.

 

@jamincollins

You completely missed my point. gg

 

 

Exactly where does increasing storage make everything so easy it is boring? Did you miss the point that crafting which you have not leveled as much is one of the most slot intensive skills and that engineering is using slots for completely new items instead of combining the old items in different ways? Not so hard to have slots open when you are doing the new stuff and leaving off one of the two highest slot eating skills now is it? You don't have to keep every single item??? Did we not already point out that you can't even keep half?

 

You and ttlanhil both say you have to leave some items for some skills out while you work on others. That is a limitation on play because you are spending time administering your storage instead of playing is it not?? When did I ask for unlimited storage? When did I ask for a slot for every item? The way to make the game easier is through teamwork as I have already helped show with the guild parties I organized and ran. Somehow you missed this but most people know about it. Taking out scheduling of storage as a limitation gives players more time to play. You have a problem with that? What is your problem with that Anshar?

 

TirunCollimdus

CoGM of PATH

Perseverance And Tolerance Honored

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That is a limitation on play because you are spending time administering your storage instead of playing is it not??

 

Administrating your storage *IS* playing the game.

 

Says someone who has 197 out of 200 storage slots used :icon13:

 

Piper

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