Bans forum?

[jatzenty]

I've recently noticed that various threads on Bans forum are locked, doesn't that defeat the purpose of

that forum, which is to give a person banned chance to defend them? Like here:

http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=13422

Or even cases that a person banned who were posting to defend herself got her posts removed:

http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=13252

 

Here: http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=11771

A person banned apologized and declared to change his offensive name but no action has been taken

by moderator's side even if there is a "second chance" policy.

 

I'd like to say something more about this one:

http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=13422 - there are numerous complaints

about that moderator, do they will be even some way investigated or checked? I heard that a person

responsible for the project has no technical knowledge to control server activity herself and now that

person stated that he will no longer post on public any materials that proves against the person banned.

Then, excuse me, but would some project admin (Entropy and Roja) explain me what happened to EL

which were community based/oriented and open game?

Edited March 29, 2005 by jatzenty

[Aislinn]

Thread #1:

Everybody was posting but Eleina herself. That is not what bans is for. Next time that stuff will just be removed. Read the "Posting in Bans" rules. If Eleina wants to defend herself, she may start a new thread or pm mihaim himself.

 

Thread #2: Did you even read the thread? It might explain to you why that person is not allowed in forums. Also, there was a lot more that has been going on with this particular situation, this is not a first time problem. Again, bans isn't for every Tom, Dick, and Harry to post their opinions. When this happens, their posts will get removed or the threads locked.

 

Thread #3: Errrm again read the thread. This person joins the game with a name like that, and immediately starts causing trouble. Not sure how many of the game rules he violated within seconds of starting to play, rules I might add that are right on your log in screen when you first create an account to play. Ignorance is NO excuse here.

 

As to thread #1 again, what makes you assume that nobody else has investigated this case? I'm not sure what makes you think all investigations and developer/moderator/administrator's actions have to be available for the general public's perusal.

[jatzenty]

#1 - Ok.

#2 - Of course I did read this thread and actually that weren't any Tom, Dick, and Harry but that person herself wanted to post and explain the

situation and it has been instantly deleted. So, some people are allowed to defend themselves and others not? I asked her if she has something to say

about reason of her being banned and I was told as following: That Community Helpers forum never had status of being private or secret, the only its

purpose were moderators chatting with each other "without forum spammers and trolles", that person told me she wanted to post that weren't allowed.

Also here is a log where a person who suspended that account tells that it were

only to get rid of uncomfortable person he got tired of. In my opinion it is quite not nice.

#3 - He violated these rules, yes, but he also apologized very kindly, and Entropy himself said if someone will apologize and promise to not do such

things again he will get a second chance.

And about #1 again: Because that person had been now promoted to a forum admin?

Also, all discussions about such things where the community demands to speak about, since it is about the community enforcement are

locked/deleted/moved to flames and persons who are posting them are being banned, suspended and their accounts are being removed?

[The_Pale_Elf]

That's kinda how things have worked here... sunshine (aka P L A T Y N A) ruined speaking out for the rest of us. Not all who have an opinon differing from the mods/admins are going to spam and flame everything they can get their mitts into. But the people in charge no longer care. sunshine did her damage, and twofold, because not only has she pissed off players who no longer want to join in the community, but she's also made the mods quick to stomp down on anyone talking out of turn, so to speak. Edited March 29, 2005 by The_Pale_Elf

[Guest Anchesenamon]

i think you're wasting your time, because it will be deleted too very quickly. if roja would be interested discussing such issues with the community she would agree for a meeting she promised to sunshine or she would allow her to post a thread sunshine asked for (it wasn't about sunshine's degradation and stuff, but about community management and moderating team issues, since we all see how does that looks like now). and i think, the pale elf, that jatzenty not meant to raise another discussion about sunshine and stuff, but generally about recent doings of certain persons towards various people not only sunshine. why every discussion about community moderating issues has to end with sunshine? i think this discussion is about that people are not allowed to discuss such issues like community enforcement, and that's sad that no one is talking to us, nor asking us about our opinion and all our complaints are always exterminated.

 

hmmm, why when I am writing P L A T Y N A it changes it to sunshine?? it's insane...

Edited March 29, 2005 by Anchesenamon

[Leeloo]

As to thread #1 again, what makes you assume that nobody else has investigated this case?

If you read the thread before it was deleted, you would notice that I only asked if we could have the opinion of someone who knows how to read a log file. Not the log itself.

 

The answer was no.

 

Other people may have investigated the case, but as long as noone with the necessary knowledge have investigated, it is useless. Has that happened? Will it happen? That's what I asked. The answer was no.

[The_Pale_Elf]

<_< Sunshine, as she is now known as, is pretty much the poster child of not only speaking up and speaking out, but also doing it inappropriately. I think we all know what the community thinks about the tendency toward what Ent has all but called his own third reich. Many of us in the community... some players, some veered away from player status by the governing here, but all looking to help save what is now commonly seen as a dying community... Many of us have posted our dissatisfaction with how things are run. Some of use have been silenced, our posts deleted, etc. But we are players.

 

Players have the forums to discuss matters with mods and admins. Mods need to keep their dirty laundry out of the public eye. Sunshine never intended to do this, and for that she was wrong. That is what she is known for... When all is said and done, she will be forgotten as a free speech advocate, and only remembered as that whiney mod who had a beef with Roja and wouldn't just go away and sulk by herself. She gave up her dignity to hurt a former friend who wouldn't give her everything she wanted.

 

Regards.

[Aislinn]

So, some people are allowed to defend themselves and others not? I asked her if she has something to say

about reason of her being banned and I was told as following: That Community Helpers forum never had status of being private or secret, the only its

purpose were moderators chatting with each other "without forum spammers and trolles", that person told me she wanted to post that weren't allowed.

Jatzenty: Let's all count how many oportunities sunshine had to defend herself. I have personally tried to help her, to talk to her, to get her to take a different approach to working things out but she wouldn't listen to me any more than she listened to anybody else who tried.

 

Jatzenty: The Community Helpers section IS private. If it was meant for everybody else to be able to see, you would be able to see it.

 

Leeloo: I think mihaim was saying that he isn't going to post logs publicly for a 10 page public debate on the merits of it or lack of. That just turns into a debacle, as we have all seen from the past. That does not mean that nobody else looked at it, and I am referring to people who do understand it.

[Guest Anchesenamon]

i'd also ask, how come that p l a t y n a ruined something if all she asked for were a thread where such discussion could be made between all the people? and now she is doing everything so this discussion could happen because when she tried to convince roja in a private was she was called crazy and insulted? bad things are happening here since certain people became in charge for the community, and they seem to disallow us the dialogue with roja. i posted kind proposition of peace and i got flamed, it is p l a t y n a's fault too? oh please...

[Leeloo]

That does not mean that nobody else looked at it, and I am referring to people who do understand it.

Well now, either Mihaim or you is lying, he specifically said that noone who knows how to read a log would be allowed to tell if it was valid or not.

 

And if you think otherwise, I would like to know who... I am not aware of any such person being a part of the mod team, after those with the knowledge were kicked out.

[Aislinn]

Players have the forums to discuss matters with mods and admins.

Yes, in a civilized manner. Which is what is going to happen. We will clean these forums up and make them pleasant for people to be around. This does not mean we will squash free speech. It DOES mean it will be civilized. It also means that flame provoking DEAD issues will be removed also.

 

Leeloo:

QUOTE (Leeloo @ Mar 29 2005, 09:28 AM)

Can we get it confirmed by someone who knows how to read a log?

 

No. No more logs will be public.

When you said "Can WE get it confirmed..." do you mean we as in us the public? Because that's how I take that statment. It sounds like from mihaim's response that is how he interpreted it also.

All mihaim is saying here is that the logs are not going to be made public for the general public to oooh and ahhhh over them. NOT that nobody else will see them.

[Guest Anchesenamon]

as i know Aisllinn, P l a t y n a, asked you to moderate her topic, she always wanted the mature discussion, unfortunately every topic she started had been spammed, where were all these moderators who are now banning her? and after she complained that moderators do nothing to clean up her topics from spam she got banned, now even her name is censored on this forum, and you agreed but after that you've stopped answering to her pms, and you, a person who seems to be also unpleased how does el community looks like now is telling that he deserved her ban. that was a mature request info - make a thread to discuss things like this one, i'm really surprised it is not yet deleted, really...sunshine has been ripped out her dignity by a person who never were her friend, friends are not behaving like that, and that dirty laudry - she were not allowed to use moderators forum anymore, and in logs posted by her is: you are no longer a nh, go away. i wonder how you may discuss with a person who only wants to get rid of you because you may tell uncomfortable things. i've read logs when sunshine talked to roja...roja were talking to her like to a dog, it is really insane that even forum admins who spammed my thread now are telling that sunshine is a spammer. i posted my suggestion of peaceful dialogue and how it was treated like? i had been insulted myself even if i did nothing wrong to these people besides trying to comprehend what is going on here.

Edited March 29, 2005 by Anchesenamon

[Aislinn]

Yes I agreed to moderate it if it was allowed. It was refused.

This thread wasn't specifically about sunshine, although you are trying to make it so. And yes, I definitely think this community needs cleaning up. No argument there!

[Soldus]

I agree, we need to start over and get over all that old crap.

 

And as long as EVERY single topic of this kind gets derailed into just another "whos' fault is it" debate, we'll be forced to delete them all.

 

I lock this one now.

 

The original question got answered imho.