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Leeloo

Definition of some offtopic

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1. Add ... to the beginning and end of his quote, implying there was more to it...

 

2. USE THE GOD DAMN DENOOB FUNCTION... it's there for a reason.

 

3. Be glad I'm no longer a NH...

 

4. Carry on with your lives, it's just a game...

 

2 cents,

Swiss

Cough, still not permitted to use it <_< ... "Oops, an error, removed #denoob, I'll fix it later" <-- Learner :\

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"Some offtopic allowed"

 

How can three little words cause this much problem.

 

A.) Your post (misquoted, out of context, whatever) was pinned! Be happy. It just means that this question comes up so often they felt that it was necessary to share with everyone on a permanent basis.

 

B.) Moderators have different flavours. Really? You mean, just like judges in courts all around the world? You mean being human plays a part in the interpertatin and enforcement of the law?

 

C.) I don't speak for the game creators, but my guess is that they allow some off-topic because some noob questions lead in to discussions that seem to drift out of topic. Eventually there has to be an end of it.

 

D.) "clearly defined set of rules to be applied to all" Wow! This is dangerous. If they were to come up with a rule that applied to everyone it would no doubt be VERY strict. Something like "Question with 1-Line Answer. All other talk banned." Remember, there are always exceptions to the rule. Be happy they give us SOME leeway in the channel.

 

E.) If you think that a moderators job is easy, you're wrong. Try placing yourself in their shoes when they call topic. This job is 100% voluntary. There is no pay or benefits. So if they act in a way you deem wrong... Or if you disagree with them, remember that the job is not easy. I don't always agree with them but I *am* glad they are there.

Edited by Kit

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What happens when a chat session is going on, and NO noobs are asking questions, and a mod says 'topic'? Why say it? This IS a common scenario, and the response typically given by the people talking is, 'but noone is asking questions, the rules say some off topic chat is allowed, so why can't we ask questions?'.

 

And that is the crux of the problem. And I have to say, I haven't yet seen that question answered satisfactorily when it is asked.

If you haven't seen it answered, read the first post in this thread. You might want to open your eyes first, so you actually *see*, otherwise it won't work. The part about if it bothers ANYONE, mods or otherwise.

 

And Kit, no the reason that some offtopic is allowed, it that newbies who have not yet learned to switch back and forth between channels should be allowed to chat among eachothers. If they get told to go to channel 4, they might not come back, and then it will be harder to help them. It was never intended for high level persons like MarantZ to chat on the newbie channel (no, the rule doesn't specifically say that. The name does: "New-bie-chan-nel").

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Newbie channel is an entrance hall for this game, if it would be too strictly moderated it alot of people

could think that game is stiff and resign. And we don't want people to resign don't we? Channel 3 is

different - there are alot more people, players who already knows the game enought to involve in its

economy. It needs to be moderated more strictly. Dot. Anyway I like Kit's post, in simple and logic way

he explained why these rules are build that way and why moderators can define "some".

 

Regards.

Edited by Platyna

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We atleast need the F5 rules to be cleared...

 

I was in an argument with somebody over the weekend who was ranting about how "But the rules say some is allowed!" When, in fact, the title says none is allowed, but pulling down an explanation leaves us with some. How about stopping the mixed messages and maybe disallowing #jc 1 after 2 months of game play unless a moderator grants permission for us to answer questions like #allow Kala etc. etc.?

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Not a bad idea NewestNewbie... but how would a moderator know that someone was willing to help? And if they were truly able to help or if their intentions were "less than honorable"?

 

If you can figure out a way around that, post it on the Suggestion Forum b/c I like the idea, just not sure how to suggest it be implemented.

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Kit:

 

"Some offtopic allowed"

 

"How can three little words cause this much problem."

 

Er, because they don't work?

 

"Your post (misquoted, out of context, whatever) was pinned! Be happy.".

 

To START a thread with a misquote from someone else is INAPPROPRIATE. To start a thread correctly it should be phrased " I have noticed there seems to be some confusion regarding... " etc.

 

"Moderators have different flavours. Really? You mean, just like judges in courts all around the world? You mean being human plays a part in the interpertatin and enforcement of the law?".

 

Er, no. A judge and jury tries to establish guilt. When done, they ENFORCE the penalty that arises. and this is NOT based on interpretation.

 

"clearly defined set of rules to be applied to all" Wow! This is dangerous. If they were to come up with a rule that applied to everyone it would no doubt be VERY strict. Something like "Question with 1-Line Answer. All other talk banned." Remember, there are always exceptions to the rule. Be happy they give us SOME leeway in the channel."

 

That is why I suggested in the original thread (which is now closed, hence my annoyance at being misquoted to start this thread) if anyone had any other ideas. For some reason you seem to assume that we should only allow the c1 channel to be used for noob questions and ban everything else. When did I suggest that? I didn't. Maybe we could allow chat and answer noob questions as they arise? That is a clear rule. And it seems to be happening most of the time on c1 anyway. Why not cater for it?

 

"If you think that a moderators job is easy, you're wrong. Try placing yourself in their shoes when they call topic. This job is 100% voluntary. There is no pay or benefits. So if they act in a way you deem wrong... Or if you disagree with them, remember that the job is not easy. I don't always agree with them but I *am* glad they are there."

 

Again you are assuming something. When did I say I think a mod's job is easy? I didn't. Why should I place myself in their shoes when they say topic? I wouldn't say it. And not all mod's do. And EVERYTHING I have said in my previous posts are OPINIONS, as I have stated. Those I AM allowed to have.

 

Leeloo:

 

"If you haven't seen it answered, read the first post in this thread. You might want to open your eyes first, so you actually *see*, otherwise it won't work. The part about if it bothers ANYONE, mods or otherwise."

 

Maybe you should read my reply first? I have ALREADY replied to this and gave my opinions as to why I don't think it works!

 

"It was never intended for high level persons like MarantZ to chat on the newbie channel (no, the rule doesn't specifically say that. The name does: "New-bie-chan-nel"). "

 

Hardly high level! And any progress I've had is due to putting in some time. But all WITHIN a month! I have already said I don't know much about EL and am still learning. Should a person be penalised from using c1 to ask questions because they have reached a certain level? Course not!

 

NewestNewbie:

 

Doesn't F5 say 'No off topic chat allowed in noob and trade channel'? I would have thought that would back up any discussion you might have on c1?

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Hate having to do 2 posts in a row, but just noticed something...

 

Leeloo:

 

"It was never intended for high level persons like MarantZ to chat on the newbie channel".

 

Actually, I DON'T chat on the newbie channel, but I DO support it!

 

Please try to respond to what is written/facts, and try not to embellish it or confuse it with assumptions.

 

And... yay, I've worked out how to quote properly using tags!

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Hate having to do 2 posts in a row, but just noticed something...

 

Leeloo:

 

"It was never intended for high level persons like MarantZ to chat on the newbie channel".

 

Actually, I DON'T chat on the newbie channel, but I DO support it!

 

Please try to respond to what is written/facts, and try not to embellish it or confuse it with assumptions.

 

And... yay, I've worked out how to quote properly using tags!

Lesson 2: Edit tag

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"If you haven't seen it answered, read the first post in this thread. You might want to open your eyes first, so you actually *see*, otherwise it won't work. The part about if it bothers ANYONE, mods or otherwise."

 

Maybe you should read my reply first? I have ALREADY replied to this and gave my opinions as to why I don't think it works!

 

So, it's not that you didn't got an answer explaining when off-topic is ok, and when it's not, it's just that you don't agree with the rules... Big difference. Well, too bad, the rule is not going to change, and not agreeing with it is no excuse for breaking it.

 

"It was never intended for high level persons like MarantZ to chat on the newbie channel (no, the rule doesn't specifically say that. The name does: "New-bie-chan-nel"). "

 

Hardly high level! And any progress I've had is due to putting in some time. But all WITHIN a month! I have already said I don't know much about EL and am still learning. Should a person be penalised from using c1 to ask questions because they have reached a certain level? Course not!

 

I don't care if you powergamed "WITHIN a month" to gain those levels, or you played once in a while for three years. The fact is, you are not a newbie, and if you want to chat, go to channel four. No, noone was ever penalised from using channel 1 to ask questions because of their levels. Read it again - and try to understand this time. The rule is not intended for high level persons (i.e. non-noobs) to chat on the newbie channel.

 

Just keep your chat to channel 4, and only join channel 1 to ask questions, then nothing is going to happen. But if you don't understand this, and keep thinking that "some chat allowed" means that you can use the newbie channel as a chat channel, disturbing every attempt to help newbies (including attempts to keep their screens from being flooded with chat), you are going to get denoob'ed very soon.

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There is also the other issue: If you want to cut people some slack on 3 and talk for example

about general economy or prices most of the instead attending mature discussion are

flaming each other, going on completly not related stuff, screaming, spamming and in the

end if a moderator want to bring them on the ground they are screaming that "You are

offtopic yourself!!!", "WTF! U R a mod and u talk offtopic and now tellin us to be on topic!".

So, excuse me, but not many moderators would like to deal with this. People will either

grow up or stand strict rules.

 

Regards.

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Leeloo:

 

I will make it simple...

 

Your definition of off topic:

 

Off-topic chat in channel 1 is ok as long as it doesn't bother anyone, it doesn't scroll text off the screen before the newbies have time for reading it, and no NH/mod has told you to stop.

 

Once any of those three things happen, it's not ok anymore, and you need to move to channel four if you want to continue the discussion.

 

As I have already said:

 

"As long as it doesn't bother anyone" isn't sufficient. Read previous posts for explanation why.

 

"no NH/mod has told you to stop", being told to stop isn't sufficient. Read previous posts for explanation why.

 

the rule is not going to change, and not agreeing with it is no excuse for breaking it.

 

As I have ALREADY said, I dont! When have you seen me chat on c1? I said it might be useful to see if anyone had any other ideas as to what could work to stop the frequent arguments, BEFORE the update.

 

But if you don't understand this, and keep thinking that "some chat allowed" means that you can use the newbie channel as a chat channel, disturbing every attempt to help newbies (including attempts to keep their screens from being flooded with chat), you are going to get denoob'ed very soon.

The rule is not intended for high level persons (i.e. non-noobs) to chat on the newbie channel.

 

I wont get denoobed for chatting. Because as I have already said - I don't.

 

if you want to chat, go to channel four

 

Just did a quick #ci. On c1 there were 28 people, on c4 there was 1 (me). Who am I going to chat to?

 

Additionally:

 

Big difference. Well, too bad,

 

Read it again - and try to understand this time.

 

Your tone is getting personal. Please do not lower the tone of this thread.

 

And please stop focusing on my newbie/not newbie status (Ive heard all sorts of definitions of what is a newbie, which is another whole can of worms!). That isnt the point of this thread. Or should I say.... "topic"!

 

It would also help if you stopped reffering to 'my chatting on c1', and talking about being denoobed, or noobed, and my disturbing attempts at helping newbies and flooding the screen with chat, etc. The point of the thread (actually the original thread before it got closed) is to talk about specific viewpoints, citing examples of witnessed behaviour, and to explore possible alternatives. It is NOT about your totally inaccurate presumptions about my behaviour.

 

Aislinn:

 

Lesson 2: Edit tag

 

Like I said, Im learning all the time! LOL!

 

Platyna:

 

going on completly not related stuff, screaming, spamming

 

But that isn't a normal chat/conversation, is it? I'm reffering to why stop a normal conversation taking place, especially when there are no newbie questions being asked?

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I'm not trying to enflame this already excited post, but why does this topic enrage you so much?

 

I mean, I personally think the NHs do a pretty good job considering how few there are and what they must face.

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I'm not trying to enflame this already excited post, but why does this topic enrage you so much?

 

Er, do I sound enraged? If you read back through the posts all I have ever done is respond to those points directed at me. I haven't used any inflamatory language, gotten personal etc.

 

Unless you were referring to someone else?

 

However, I did not want my misquote to be used to start this thread. I thought the topic closed!

 

I personally think the NHs do a pretty good job considering how few there are and what they must face

 

I am not talking about how they enforce the rules, but the rules themselves. Maybe a more defined set of rules for them to enforce and the players to abide by might be more useful?

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Marantz: *Shrugs* Well we get the point you don't care for the off-topic rule, but it seems that the people who make the rules do like it and put it the way it is for a reason...and from what I can tell, the people who enforce them agree with it too. You can say a thousand times why you don't like the rule but that doesn't make your opinion fact. You stating over and over again that the rule has a problem and your OPINIONS as to why doesn't automatically make it a valid point. And actually "some off-topic allowed" does work except with the immature players who have a temper tantrum when they are told to behave.

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Well isn't the offtopic in newbie channel allowed because some people want to help and still talk, but we can't multichannel yet?

 

The moderators allow plenty of offtopic until the questions are ignored, then they tell us to get on topic. If everybody would leave to a chat channel when the moderators want the questions answered, then there would be no problems.

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Well isn't the offtopic in newbie channel allowed because some people want to help and still talk, but we can't multichannel yet?

No, it's to allow newbies to chat without needing to explain to them how to get back to the newbie channel after going to channel 4.

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but it seems that the people who make the rules do like it and put it the way it is for a reason

 

Well, obviously, they made the rules! Ergo they would like it.

 

You can say a thousand times why you don't like the rule but that doesn't make your opinion fact. You stating over and over again that the rule has a problem and your OPINIONS as to why doesn't automatically make it a valid point

 

Never said it did. What I did say was that they were my opinions. And I'll think you'll find my 'going over and over' is actually me repeating myself to points repeatedly raised. Or am I not allowed to debate?

 

And actually "some off-topic allowed" does work except with the immature players who have a temper tantrum when they are told to behave

 

If it works, then why did YOU pin this thread?

 

I agree, it works since the update, which is why I wondered why you would ressurect it?

 

To recap:

 

I raised an important point in an otherwise dull thread. It was receiving some interesting replies. EL was updated with the f5 command. I suggested the c1 off topic issue was now a moot point.

 

You started a new thread, with a quote/misquote of what I said. I thought it best to bring people up to speed by a summary of the previous thread, state it was a moot point anyway, and express my dismay at the thread being started in such a manner.

 

Current situation:

 

Despite stating it is now a moot point, that these are only my opinions, debating points raised, and trying to keep the thread 'ontopic', there seems to be some rather 'pointed' comments. But I am the one 'going on and on'?

 

Sigh....

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It was pinned because not everyone knows the definition of "some". So instead of having someone else ask the same thing in a month, they can just read the pinned post.

 

As for it being a moot pint after F5 got added, I still don't get what that changes. Yes, now you can read the rule in game instead of going to the forum, but you weren't saying that the rule is too hard to find, you're arguing that it needs to be changed.

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still don't get what that changes. Yes, now you can read the rule in game instead of going to the forum, but you weren't saying that the rule is too hard to find, you're arguing that it needs to be changed.

 

Already answered, see previous posts.

 

It was pinned because not everyone knows the definition of "some". So instead of having someone else ask the same thing in a month, they can just read the pinned post.

 

So what is it? In one post you're saying it (topic/offtopic rule) works, and in another you're saying it needs explaining in the forums?

 

It can't be both.

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No, you didn't tell how moving the rule from one place to another without changing it solves your complaint that it needs to be changed.

 

Yes it can. There will always be some people who don't understand, and even after using three pages to explain it to them still don't understand.

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No, you didn't tell how moving the rule from one place to another without changing it solves your complaint that it needs to be changed.

 

Already explained! Sigh...

 

Before update: Several conflicting rules = general chat vs 'topic' debates frequently occuring on c1.

 

Since update: In game f5 key showing CURRENT IN GAME rules sweems to go some way to ending that.

 

There will always be some people who don't understand, and even after using three pages to explain it to them still don't understand

 

Right back at ya!

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Where did you see conflicting rules before?There was a set of rules listed somewhere on the webpage. Now the same rules are in the game instead.

 

But if the problem (in your eyes) was conflicting sets of rules, why are you arguing on a thread with a topic of "Definition of some offtopic"? This topic as nothing to do with conflicting rules.

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Where did you see conflicting rules before?There was a set of rules listed somewhere on the webpage. Now the same rules are in the game instead.

 

Already answered. See previous posts.

 

But if the problem (in your eyes) was conflicting sets of rules, why are you arguing on a thread with a topic of "Definition of some offtopic"? This topic as nothing to do with conflicting rules.

 

Already answered. See previous posts.

 

Sigh...

 

*strong feeling of going around in circles and repeating myself*

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