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conavar

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Posts posted by conavar

  1. Posted · Edited by conavar · Report reply

    So u dont expect great profit from training/fighting (which u spend 90% time on).

     

    I dont expect any profit. I just dont expect 30% loss. I mentioned those prices are still cheaper than ings. But i also mentioned that loss CAN be covered with rare chance, what u seem didnt notice. If ill be VERY lucky (sometimes i am, sometimes im not at all), ill get some bigger gc frome specials, but only if they will happen more often than only to cover loss.

     

    I can only speak for myself, and no I gave up expecting to make a profit from training ages ago, and I would say you have made more profit from manu (including specials) than i ever have from a/d (including non gc drops) . you get the profit I get the xp so who cares tbh.

     

    They harv ings themselves, so their cost of making didnt increase, their income did.

     

    That is a problem, but that would only be solved by like I said before, players sticking together and refusing to pay those prices.If people pay them, then in the end they will keep increasing

  2. Posted · Report reply

    Maybe thinking about it... the xp for great swords etc should be increased 5 fold or something ?

    Yes, that could work, but imho it's easier to try to change the price of ingreds/final items then the exp :confused:

     

    I didnt mean increase xp and leave ings price etc the same.. they should come down aswell ofc but increased xp would help as well i bet

  3. Posted · Edited by conavar · Report reply

    That logic being increasing prices and still making a loss Vs collecting you own stuff and making a profit at lower prices , just baffled me tbh.

     

    You don't get the problem then.

    I'd like to enjoy my favourite skill most of the time i play - same way like you do...

    That's WHY i buy ingreds.

    If i would have to harvest all ingreds by myself, it would be 2 hours harving/alching to make one sword. Maybe this gives more logic ?

     

    yes true but you cant expect a great profit if any by doing so , if I buy all my srs/he's then im lucky to make a profit, unless i serp fluffs etc which is the same as you moving down to s2e's

     

    Maybe thinking about it... the xp for great swords etc should be increased 5 fold or something ?

     

    edit:

     

    KK, you have just mentioned that drops from training creatures were very low (I assumed you find them not satysfying).

     

    Do any of us find them satisfying ? but you learn to live it , I resigned myself a long time ago to the fact that im unlucky with drops, lol i can kill a giant and get 10 gc

     

    But its what I enjoy doing and imo cant put a price on fun (same as you and ranging I guess) which is why if need be I will pay increased prices for items, and despite my posts which may seem like moaning but they wernt . I was just trying to grasp the logic of the action (in my overly sarky way at times :confused: )

  4. Posted · Edited by conavar · Report reply

    I didnt compare it to fighting but since you did... you should can make you 5k profit, be very lucky to make 5k on 250 mobs that i train (last 10 Mcw drops have been 12 gc or less)

     

    Don't count mobs you train on...

    Count those you farm gc on. Nobody makes great swords for manu exp...

     

    I dont farm GC (and if i did, then you would have to compare my farming mob to an s2e, they both lower down the scale), Im ebul IRL rich shop buyer :confused: , If it came to buying great swords for 30k then I would, I was just baffled by the logic on this thread

     

    That logic being increasing prices and still making a loss Vs collecting you own stuff and making a profit at lower prices , just baffled me tbh.

     

     

    @ Cruella

     

    Plz point out where I said i wanted to make a profit from training ? Im happy to take a loss for something I enjoy doing, same for PK and invasions = no profit (unless lucky in invasion) but fun

  5. Posted · Edited by conavar · Report reply

    PS. yeah, 104 alch just proves my lazines... What are your levels or harv/alch or so?

     

     

    80/85 btw, not bad for someone who spends 90% of the time a/d training , so yes fighters do make their own Essies and more than likely be higher alch than you if i didnt train a/d... but point ?

     

    @ Groomsh

     

    I didnt compare it to fighting but since you did... you should can make you 5k profit, be very lucky to make 5k on 250 mobs that i train (last 10 Mcw drops have been 12 gc or less)

  6. Posted · Edited by conavar · Report reply

    Are you looking at the great sword price? 22K = 5K+5K+7K + .....a measily 5K where that measily 5K is for 12K worth of steel longs and the minor ingreds and the risk to our precious saving stones (or the risk of total and utter loss).

     

    We would have to produce the steel long required for the wolfram bars required for the great swords for.....230gc each in order to call 22K breaking even.

     

    Hmm nope you would "being a manuer" make the steel longs yourself, and that measily 5k is more than you are getting now even with increased price :confused:

     

    I won't pay for your fighting pleasure though

     

    But you expect the fighters to pay for your laziness (not aimed at you directly) good luck with it is all i can say :P

     

    Anyhow off to make "strike thread" that us shop buyers should increase our prices inline with the GC farmers exchange rate, so we make a profit :bangwall:

  7. Posted · Edited by conavar · Report reply

    With your logic... why dont some fighters get ings, or even make their own armors instead of crying about higher prices? If manufacturers should be miners and alchers too, why dont other professions should? (im 104 alch level if that matters for u) Ive chosen blacksmith prof to make armors/weapons, not to spend life in undergrounds. Just like u've chosen fighter prof, not to make your own rings/essies/gear. Am i wrong?

     

    Lol alot of fighters are also potters and alchers if you didnt know, more so now with the increased prices Vs lower Gc drops

     

    It wasnt ment to be a flame btw it was a question (hence the question mark) I am just totally gobsmacked as to why you dont want to make a nice profit which might involve a little work.

    The profit is there to be taken, wether you choose to or not is no one elses fault but your own no ? and then moaning that you dont make a profit (when you easily can) is pretty stupid imo

  8. Posted · Report reply

    Hmmmm thanks for the answers

     

    So even with the price increase (which might mean potential lower sales aswell) manuers still make a loss at 28k and maybe break even at 30k .

     

    So honestly why dont manuers collect their own ings sell at 22k (and not lose sales) and make a 5k profit ?

     

    Is the refusal to do this laziness or stupidity or both ? (or greed if ppl do collect their own ings and still want to sell for 28k).

     

    The potential to make a nice profit is there without hiking up prices and still making a loss :confused:

     

    Common sense has left the building :bangwall:

     

     

    Hopefully someone will see the gap in the market, get their own ings, sell for 22-23k and make a shit load of GC.

     

     

    Note:

     

    While this thread points outs that everyone agree's that everyone should make a porfit, maybe those of us who buy items from the EL shop to support the game and build Radu's castle, rather that line the pockets of Gc farmers, need to re-think our prices.

     

    With a 1$ = 7k GC atm we are making a loss on every item we bring into the game

    So maybe since everyone deserves to make a profit we should all adjust those prices ( Im sure all the bots owners will agree and change their prices to suit)

     

    So EFE,Bindings,Serps we sell should be 12-14k, and Rostos 28k to make the profit we all deserve :P

  10. Posted · Edited by conavar · Report reply

    In theory yes a manuer could collects all his own ings, and even with having to pay for serps,bindings (prices taken from nathans siggy) for a JS for example, they could sell for 22k and make a 5k profit.

     

    no you sell the ings keeping 10% to build up ing inventory for when prices turn around

    from so many manus selling the ings and making less items.

     

    True, but also depends on why people manu, if they do it because they enjoy the skill, what they could sell the ings for seperate is irrelavant, if they are having fun and making a nice profit (5k is nice profit in anyone's book) it doesnt really matter what they "could have made" gc wise.

     

     

    Edit @ Boe

     

    Could also mention that gc/drops etc have been reduced for the players who buy these items, but people would just tell us to go serp a lower mob... hmmmm bit like manuers having to make lower stuff to make money ........ irony aye :hug:

  11. Posted · Report reply

    what is wrong with manus focusing more on making there own ings and decreasing

    manu output? this is what opec does when oil prices get too low. cutting output.

     

    In theory yes a manuer could collects all his own ings, and even with having to pay for serps,bindings (prices taken from nathans siggy) for a JS for example, they could sell for 22k and make a 5k profit.

     

     

    well entropy said a change that would increase the value of gc, so im guessing there will be another gc drain

     

     

    Yeah radu said he was going to introduce a new money sink

  12. Posted · Report reply

    Personaly I think we are all talking out of our ass about a solution, none of us has the data that radu has about the items that come in / out of game. Untill a solution is found, I am supporting the manuers by offering a closer to cost price for popular great swrods, and selling them accordingly.

     

    Maybe lol.

     

    I dont believe anyhere thinks manuers shouldnt make a profit, its just basically 2 differant views of how to go about it.

     

    One side is to increase the end price and the other side thinks it should be done by forcing down the Ings price... everyone wants the same end goal

  13. Posted · Report reply

    If the npc's buy price was raised to 25k from the current (19k or 20k not sure) this may help set the base price for these swords so that manuers can either sell to npc if they mass manufature them, or sell to players for a bit higher player X can pay 26k or I just sell to npc

     

    And if the Ings price fall , im sure manuers will ask Radu to reduce the npc buy price :P , then you have the buyers over a barrel.. even if a sword cost 15k to make you will point to npc and say 26k like it or lump it .

    Bad idea to raise any NPC prices just because the players pay over the odds for their ings imo (and thats not just manu items)

  14. Posted · Report reply

    Maybe Radu will cap the number of rare stones that some one can keep in their sto. Prob the only way to force hoarders to sell them. ;)

     

    Would only work if you gave players a set time limit to remove the excess from their storage, some players might have paid $ from the shop for some items such as bindings for their own personal use (they have never entered the market so dont affect the price) so you cannot just remove them.

     

    oh and cap how many a bot can hold or stop them trading in rare stones all together ,will stop player A buying cheap stones on one bot and then placing them on his/her own at an increased price :)

  16. Posted · Edited by conavar · Report reply

    The demand for rare ings (EFEs and whatnot) is what sets the price for those items. People only make a few by chance, if they want more they have to buy them from the shop. Radu sets the rate at which rare ings enters the game. Therefore the cost of ings for high level items is not controlled by the players nearly as much as the price they charge for what they mix. You need ings or you cannot mix. Once you have mixed you need to sell. What you sell for should be determined by what it cost you to make.

     

    Yes but if the cost of Ings is to much then you dont mix that item (as wiser manuers than me have said, those items are not used to level the skill, so leveling the skill is still an option with items that make a profit)

     

    The way things work now with people buying the ings regardless of cost and then increasing the product price, the price of ings will keep rising no ? That can only continue until the NPC price of items is reached then you are bolloxed .

     

    Isnt it better to try and make a stand against the ings price as manuers now rather than when that "bolloxed" point is reached ?

     

     

     

    *waits for "Radu can you increase NPC's prices plzzzzz cus we have been buying binding stones for 20k" thread*

  17. Posted · Edited by conavar · Report reply

    Radu said that he is going to double the break chance for great swords.

     

    Isnt that going to cause inflation and not help the problem ?

     

    If Player A now has to spend 28k on a JS and in theory buy more if they break more often, then he/she will sell his items to Player B for more gc to compensate, Player B will then do the same etc etc etc etc, until you reach the point of good luck making a profit once again on a sword even at 28k .

     

    The root problem isnt the fact the great swords are to cheap atm, its the fact that the ings are to expensive and sadly ppl have been willing to pay that expensive in the hope of making a rare item, which has knackered it up for everyone else.

     

    manuers should all get together and not increase the end product price. but by refusing to pay over the top for the ings. As I mentioned earlier, if you dont stand together against the inflation in price of the ings, then a stage will be reached when the ings will cost more than a sword from an NPC .

     

    Raising the finished items prices is kinda shutting the barn door after the horse has bolted

     

    and the chance to make rare should be greatly lowered so spamming 1k swords/armour etc to make one isnt worthwhile

  19. Posted · Report reply

    The old make items because they are fun thinking manufacturer should be happy that they can make items and not complain that they make the items at a loss ?

     

    Yeah I've heard that a lot - mostly from those that want to buy items cheap.

     

    No .. FUN is the fundemental part of a Game, loads of players lose money by doing things they find fun (ask any pker), if people are only playing a game to make profit, then something is wrong imo

     

    (Im not saying they shouldnt make a profit, but chucking rl economics about is pointless since it doesnt include all factors)

  20. Posted · Edited by conavar · Report reply

    If I smelt a hydro bar from the ore I've mined and the s2es ive made, my cost is basically 0gc.

    Actually your cost is not 0. You may have spent 0 gc but that is not the cost for making the hydro bar. What you have spent is not your cost - a common mistake for those not knowing economics.

     

    Here something called opportunity cost comes in - you basically have two options:

    - sell the ingredients

    - make the item.

     

    By not selling the ingredients - the hidden cost you have to make the item is the income you would have gotten by selling the ingredients.

     

     

    That might be all very well in the RL but doesnt factor in a "games" components.

     

    Granted you might be able to sell X items ings for 29K and the item for only 20K , but if you collect the ings yourself that is 20K + Xp + the fun of doing something you want to do .

     

     

    , imagine if you make 100 great swords youve just gone and lost yourself half a million EL GC , thats ALOT of fucking hours at the lupine bush and it NEARLY ever so nearly makes me want to make a pie chart to show you how frustrating it is

     

    Why make 100 JS's (for example) when you know there isnt a market for that many ? all manuers are doing is saturating the market and forcing prices down.... Shooting yaself in the foot ftw :icon13:

  21. Posted · Edited by conavar · Report reply

    Im all for people wanting to make a profit with there skill, but imo you are tackling the wrong end of the problem, instead of upping the end products price to make a profit you should be trying to get the ings price down.

    You know what will happen nxt ? people will see that you are making a profit with bindings/efes etc being the price they are.. and then increase their price (or increase their sell prices to cover the increased cost of the great sword they want ie: I buy bindings from the shop and if I have to increase the sale price to 10K+ to be able to afford new prices,then I will)

    Then the manuers will want to increase the price again to make a profit and the circle continues. End result will be some items will be cheaper to buy from an NPC rather than a player, then to put it bluntly you are f00ked.

     

     

    So maybe aswell all bots owners should lower their buy and sell prices of Ings to suit, you buy somthing at 5k sell it for 5.5k not the stupid marked up price of 9k etc etc, fine line between profit and greed

  22. Posted · Edited by conavar · Report reply

    Food for thought: I'm sure harvers and rangers would love to have a potion that allows them to get more exp in time unit :P

     

    Could tbh just change these potions so instead of giving negative att or def they give +10 xp (non-stackable) for 10 mins in any skill, that +10 could either stay the same for the whole 10mins or reduce at the rate of 1xp point per min , not sure which would be best :P

     

    And by also removing the att/def penalty we wont have the potential "multi spawn" training like we did with ts pots, but trainers on any mob or any skill would skill get a bonus

     

     

    Edit:

     

    And before people say "yeah but there are two potions", each potion could only give a bonus in 6 skills... one could give a bonus in Att, Harv, Manu, Magic, Rang, Tail and the other potion would cover the rest (yes evil seperating a/d but o well )

  23. Posted · Edited by conavar · Report reply

    "Maybe" what might be a nice idea, is to have an NPC that allows you for a price to move nexus points around within themselves

     

    Ie: 25-50k to move a pp from human nexus to inorg

     

    This would give players a lot more freedom with their builds without the dreaded reset or X amount of gc on hydro bars. The hydro bar market wouldnt be overly changed since there are always people who will want that " extra " pp

  24. Posted · Edited by conavar · Report reply

    . If you really want them to get rid of their scales, why not have dragons go hunting for revenge when the people are harvesting if they have more than 10 or 20? :( The dragons would only attack those people, of course.

     

    Or

     

    Remove fixed Dragon spawns,remove them from instances, stop spamming invasions with them, re-do their stats so it takes a team to kill them ( 15k+ health would be nice aswell)

    and then only use them as End of invasion bosses (which is the way they should have been from the start imo) :whistle:

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